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Hair color without peroxide or ammonia?
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Hair color without peroxide or ammonia?

Gals do you know if there is any safe hair color to use while on treatment? Might one without peroxide or ammonia be OK?
Thanks, Bree
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I colored my hair  1x during 13 week treatment, Not sure if it would have been better or worse.  It was falling out plenty before, not much more after.  Are their studies to show hair falls out more if colored?  Or is it an assumption?  I didn't do highlights, just covered my gray with brown.
Judy
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If you are going to be doing your hair at home. Clairol has a ammonia free/peroxide free color that won't hurt your hair. It won't do the job that permanant color will do, but it will make
your hair look and feel better. It is called Natural Instints loving care, and Clairol makes it. You can get it at most drug stores.
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Hi iwillbeatthis,

Try reading these threads for different opinions about this and then do what works for you:

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Hepatitis-C/Hair-coloring/show/990348

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Hepatitis-Social/hair-dye-can-I/show/694728

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Hepatitis-C/Color-Hair-/show/88706

I didn't bother to color during treatment but rushed out afterwards and splurged on the works.

During treatment, I used hats and caps to 'cover up' and didn't bother to wash my hair very often.  It was so dry but didn't fall out that much, except for occasional spurts, usually in the shower. Or maybe that was when I noticed it falling out.

Susan


Susan
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I worked throughout my 72 weeks of treatment so my appearance was very important.  I have a lot of grey and had my hair colored every 6 - 8 weeks.  My daughter is a stylist and does my hair and she could notice the thinning but no one at work seemed to notice.  She uses only professional products which contained ammonia and peroxide and my hair didn't fall out any faster or become dry and brittle.  In my opinion, having my hair done proffesionally kept my hair healthy because we colored only the roots and didn't overlap the color and expose already colored hair to the chemicals.  I also used a very good shampoo and conditioner which kept my hair soft and shiny despite the thinning.

Trinity
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I think you've received some good answer from each of the respondents in this post.  It would probably be a good idea to talk to a professional hair stylist who is up-to-date on hair loss due to different types of chemothearpy.  

I don't know what to do either.  I don't die my hair, I gave that up and now I have this bushy, white hair, that I really dig.  But, when if it starts falling out a lot, I might just shave my head.  I'm thinking about it.  

There are beautiful scarves, hats, and turbans that women wear, giving them that bohemian look that is really cool.  

You have many options to choose from, so you can carefull do what is right for your situation.

Debbie
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thank you all, read thru all info, I've gotten some ideas, and of course will go as the flow presents itself. I've got a long road ahead of me, starting pretty soon, and as insignificant as hair may seem, it's the daily reminder in the mirror (among other daily reminders I am sure).
Bree
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Hi there!  Right before starting tx I did dye my hair with Feria.  Then after I started I would try to wait 8 to 12weeks before using a vegetable dye.  Sebastian makes a good one called cellophanes which is supposed to cover gray.  In my case I had to go with a little darker color in order to cover the grays.  There is another called Herbatint.
Good luck to you,
D
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thank you D,  I have bookmarked your note.
Bree is right, the hair is a daily reminder of being different, looking different.  I can't wear a scarf to work as it would get a whole lot of attention.  I had thick beautiful hair.  I never wore it pulled back until now.  You really can't see the thinning while it's in a bun or ponytail, with bangs.  Bumble and Bumble make a color hair powder spray you can use to lengthen time between hair color.  Since you don't wash your hair much during tx it lasts until you wash it out. Use it on roots or where you see your hair looks thin at the scalp.  I use Blondish, it's for light brown to dark blonde hair color.  You can find it on ebay.
Judy
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Thanks D, and Judy, I ordered some Tints of Nature today, also some Nioxin, got my wide tooth combs, picked up my gallon of junk to drink for colonoscopy, so I guess I am getting ready for the ride. Checked out that Bumble and Bumble, had never heard of it, that's a good tip. Thank you all, and I liked the ice cream tip with the Riba :0
The little comfort stuff is probably what gets you through.
I'm gonna be turning to you gals here, hope you don't mind me leaning on you a bit. Bree
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I've used the Nioxin now twice. I only wash once a week.  It's leaves my hair in good condition. I would recommend it as a good hydrating shampoo.  Not sure it will stop hair loss.  There is a benefit  to both when sharing a similiar experience with each other and both are better for it.

I've used Bumble and Bumble Blondish for years, it allows me to lenghten time between hair color.  Remember i am 95% white, and am a brunnette.  I have roots at 3 weeks.  I hate roots. I just use where my part shows growth. That's why bangs are good, covers hairline. Still considering going white, just not sure how to do it.  Again not much research and I refuse to look like a zebra.

I've had 2 colonoscopies, neither were a problem or pain.  Just the prep.  But it's one day.  
Judy
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I hate to go against the flow here but my doctor said "no hair coloring until finishing tx" His reason being that there is a chance of some of the chemicals entering the blood stream and the liver having to deal with them. He also recommended that I stop painting my fingernails for the same reason... nail polish remover doesn't just go through the polish.

The main reason of doing tx is to save our livers, which filter everything we eat, drink, and get on our skin. If I were you, I'd ask my doctor to be on the safe side.

Diane
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I used L'Oreal and it worked great. The color was deep and rich and my hair still had that luxurious bounce that is so critical for natural looking locks.

Of course, coloring while treating HCV is not generally recommended but when it comes to looking great you just can't beat L'Oreal. And looking great is important.

Mike
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I've never heard that before and I had one of the best hepatologists in the country and we discussed hair color.  That just sounds crazy to me.

The chemicals that enter our body from meats, fresh fruits, vegetables and processed food far exceed any harmful chemicals that could enter the body through the scalp.  Even with organic foods chemicals are stil present.

Trinity
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I don't know that hair color made my hair fall out faster, but about halfway through treatment my (6 months) my hair color (Loreal) started to burn my head. I got terrible itchy, scabby places.  My entire scalp flaked, itched, burned for months.  I couldn't color at all (tried to cover the gray with colored mousse, but that didn't work very well.  Finally bought some of the old fashioned Clairol stuff (Loving Care?) which is a temporary rinse.  No ammonia or peroxide.  The color options aren't great, but are a whole lot better than 2-inch gray roots and faded-out color.  My scalp is 90% better and my hair seems healthier.  
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I have heard that for the sake of the hair one should not color but I've never seen nor read that hair coloring is hard on/toxic to the liver. But hey, I guess it could be true and, if so, we should probably never color our hair again - ever. Kind of like alcohol perhaps.
I don't know what I'd do without my L'Oreal though. I guess I'd learn to live with it - as tough as that might be.

Mike
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My liver must be going south about every 8 wks Mike.  hahaha

Oh well,  c'est la guerre.

Trin
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I would think that the worst part of using ammonia and chemicals would be the problem that we have with our skin being so dry it would burn like crazy. Heck sometimes it burns the hell out of my head when I'm NOT on tx. I have been a 'bottle blond' almost all of my life but on treatment didn't do a thing to it except condition condition condition (and I work in the beauty industry for a man who owns one of the biggest hair companies in the world) - as it fell out and cracked off I used wigs and nobody noticed that it wasn't my real hair.

But as for putting it directly on the scalp I would be very hesitant to do that.  If you are just covering grey I would think they would make plenty of dyes that would be harmless enough for just depositing color.....

I've never heard that hair products could possibly harm the liver - if this were the case well no wonder I was diagnosed at stage 3 ........it wasn't all the hepatits C and partying it was the bleach ; ) Just don't tell my boss or we'll have to sell the company and I can live on the streets!
(Honestly I dont think hair color affects the liver at all or it would probably be banned by the FDA or at least have huge warnings "Warning: Golden Blonde Might Kill Your Liver".
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Here's a good overview about general hair concerns while on tx, which I read on the former Janis site. I think it's taken from a Side Effects Management Handbook but don't know the source. It seems posted on several sites, including http://www.liverdisease.com

Note it states:

"Women should refrain from dying or bleaching their hair while on interferon therapy, since this may exacerbate hair loss. A mild hair rinse may be used as an alternative to coloring."

http://hepatitiscnewdrugs.blogspot.com/2010/07/hepatitis-c-treatment-side-effects.html

Hair Loss

Interferon can cause hair thinning, hair loss, hair breakage, and can change the texture of hair. However, some women are under the impression that interferon therapy will cause them to lose all their hair. (Well, that’s what Pamela Anderson stated as one of her main reasons for not starting therapy!). This is a total misconception. In fact, hair loss while on interferon therapy is infrequent. If it occurs at all, the amount of hair lost is often minimal and usually unnoticeable to others. Women on interferon do not experience hair loss in the way that a cancer patient on chemotherapy does. Hair loss from interferon appears to be most frequent in Caucasians with black hair, and in Orientals. It typically occurs around the third or fourth month of therapy. Hair loss may continue for up to three months after treatment is discontinued. Hair loss is more common among women then it is among men (as well as less socially acceptable).

If hair loss does occur, there are many steps that women can take to minimize this side effect. Women should refrain from dying or bleaching their hair while on interferon therapy, since this may exacerbate hair loss. A mild hair rinse may be used as an alternative to coloring. Avoid permanents and hair straightening procedures while on therapy. Many women have found the vitamin biotin (a B vitamin) to be helpful. It is advisable to take this vitamin daily a few weeks prior to beginning therapy and to continue while on therapy. A mild shampoo and a detangling conditioner are advisable. Nioxin shampoo, Nioxin conditioner and Nioxin hair growth promoter can help keep hair loss to a minimum while on therapy. Nioxin hair loss treatment should be started about a month prior to starting antiviral therapy. Other recommended shampoos include Tricomin, Revivogen and Nizoral. Minoxidil (Rogaine) liquid topical medication may be of some benefit. It should be applied only to the scalp and not ingested. It may stop hair loss and thicken the remaining hair, but continued use twice daily for at least 4 months is typically required before obvious results are noted.

Other tips for diminishing hair loss include: the use of a wide tooth comb, avoidance of curling irons and rollers, and avoidance of daily shampooing. Avoid cornrowing, tight braids and pulling hair back in a ponytail with tight rubberbands. A short haircut may be in order. If hair loss becomes a major problem, medical insurances will typically cover the cost of a wig or a hairpiece. Often a doctor’s note or prescription along with a receipt of purchase is all that is required for insurance reimbursement.

Fortunately, any hair loss induced by interferon therapy is temporary, and regrowth typically occurs within three to six months from the drug’s discontinuation. The color and texture of hair may differ from the person’s original hair type. In fact, many women have noted that their hair grows back thicker, straighter, and shinier than before!
___________________________________________________________________

I probably would have dyed my hair during tx if I'd thought it necessary but I have very little gray, so didn't bother, and my natural color isn't that far off my dyed color.

My mom insisted on dying her hair when she was dying of breast cancer. Some people didn't understand that but it boosted her morale and provided a kind of comfort that's hard to explain. Anyway, she died as a stunning blonde and that's what she wanted. :(


Susan



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You really should try the target beauty products. They keep my hair looking silky smooth and my complexion is like a baby's a$$.
- Dave
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In fact, hair loss while on interferon therapy is infrequent. "

Yeah that's the first time I've ever really heard that............ask those of us who did lose 75% or more of our hair - that seems pretty silly a statement, Nioxin didn't help me a bit.
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"In fact, hair loss while on interferon therapy is infrequent. "

That does seem an odd thing to say. Hair loss seems common around here. Wonder why the Janis site didn't catch that.

Nioxin, though, was nice on my scalp during tx, although now I wouldn't dream of using it. It never felt like the real thing because it didn't get sudsy.
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Some reputable sites estimate 30% lose hair during TX.
Minoxidil is not efficacious according to several sites.

I saw that article and in fact I believe it is taken from www.liverdisease.com. It really doesn't seem very credible to me but all I have to go on is my experience and what I have read.

Mike
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it wasn't the Hep, it was the bleach, funny.
I'm a sandy hair gal naturally, now with some gray, have lightened my hair forever too, I've ordered some tints of nature (will try it before I tx) to check it out, ordered the nioxin too, I'm going to do the month of nioxin before tx and during, am taking the liquid B, I'm just doing what I can to feel like I'm doing what I can, you know? I'm trying to look at the bright sides. I am only going to use the organic natural hair colors for now on (after txing), am paying more attention to vitamin B's, I have read in several places that major hair loss is infrequent ? Doesn't sound like that here :(
All I can do now is pray, hang tough, pray, and do it. Stupid question, is that really Tyler in the pic with you?
Bree
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Yes it's Steven Tyler the hepC poster child     :)

I'll tell you when my daughter was little she had beautiful blonde hair. One day in school she got ahold of a box of sharpies of all different colors and 'dyed' her hair green and blue and red.......................so be careful not to use too many hair colors at one time, I've seen what it looks like (just kidding I"m sure you can tell)!

You don't know - you might not lose any hair - so don't get too wrapped up in it before hand.  Things like having thyroid damage (like me) on interferon can exagerate the condition........on treatment you really just have to wait and see what will happen to you (but being proactive about your scalp can't hurt anyway since it's something good for you!
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I will be careful, I promise :)

And yea I know, I could be 'lucky', I'm just doing better stuff for the future anyway.
Makes me feel better.

As for Steven Tyler, he did tx, yes? Did he clear?

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Hi again iwillbeatthis,

I hope you're one of the perhaps 70% unaffected that mikesimon mentions above: "Some reputable sites estimate 30% lose hair during TX."

Before tx started, my NP said she'd arrange for me to get a wig through my insurance if it came to that but it never did.

Maybe ask your medical team in advance if they'll do this, if necessary.

Or there's ebay, which I think is the site that NY recommended. (?)

And I'll keep my fingers crossed that you don't have this side effect.

Best wishes,

Susan



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Thank you for being so kind Susan.
Yea, I hope I respond to tx, I hope I clear, I hope I don't lose my hair.
I know, a lot of hoping.
I'm sorry, I don't remember if you said you in tx or done?
Bree
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I have dark,very thick hair, but have some grey and so it really shows up next to my dark hair.  I am vain and do not want to  see myself with grey so I have used all natural products found at Whole Foods.  They have several to choose from and have no chemicals at all.  In fact, there are more chemicals in lotions and deodorants than in their hair color products.  

I am  in month 5 of treatment and in the last 2 weeks have been  losing a handfull of hair each day when I brush it.  I have lots of hair so I think no one will even notice throughout my treatment.  As others have stated, this is a very very very small price to pay to be SVR.  Try to not to focus on that one issue as in the long run it is not that important.  I know you know that and you will handle all this just fine.  Just know that there are thousands of us out here that have walked in your shoes and we are here for you!

Here's to your good health!

jazzy
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Bless you jazzy, I know that achieving SVR is the only thing that really matters through all this, I am just fighting off fears right now before starting, and that's including the hair loss.
I'm trying not to obsess on some things, but on the other hand, I'm human, I'm a female, I'm scared, I have my vanity, I want to live, all of those things. What you said about the thousands out there that have walked in my shoes, now that helps. And to think that you are there to give of yourselves and your experience, I am so grateful. I plan on giving back too when my time comes. All my best to you jazzy, Bree
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There is one product that colors the hair by coating it. Henna... it also makes the hair real shiny and makes it fell thicker too. Be sure to use a good moisturizer before application though since the coated hair won't be able to absorb the moisturizer for about 4 weeks after application.

For the people who thought my comments about the chemicals were silly... getting hair color in your eyes can cause blindness... read the box.... it has to be able to penetrate to get into the eye.
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"....Is It Safe for Pregnant Women to Dye Their Hair?

We don't know much about the safety of hair dyes during pregnancy. It's likely that when you apply hair dye, only a small amount is absorbed into your system. So very little chemicals, if any, would be able to get to your baby. In the few animal and human studies that have been done, no changes were seen in the developing baby. Talk with your doctor if you have questions or concerns...."

http://www.webmd.com/skin-beauty/hair-dye-faqs?page=2

Mike
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Okay, if hair color can cause blindness, then be sure not to put hair color into your eye.  Otherwise it is perfectly safe.
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Thank you.

Mike
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Might as well have a glass of wine while you are getting your hair colored then. Heck, why not?
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Women have been getting their hair colored  for years.
I would agree to be careful on tx as bleaching is harsh.

I've actually had some color in my eyes.....guess what?
I'm not blind.

As for the whine, I mean wine, don't mind if I do.
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I use Turtle Wax myself… does anyone have any tox data on that?
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I knew something wasn't right:)
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Don't get it in your eyes but it provides a nice high gloss on the head and is excellent for keeping the mustache handle bars in place.

:o)
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The salon I go to always offers wine or champagne when I'm getting my hair done - I figure for the amount it costs I'm taking a glass or two every time so I'll see you there Elaine!   :)

"Hair color causes blindness" that reminds me of an article I read yesterday where some teenager used a whole can of deodorant by spraying it on their hand and it literally froze their skin. Then a brilliant adult comes along and does the same thing with the same result. I mean yeah you'd have to be pretty stupid to pour hair color right into your eyes and leave it there.

The Body Odd - Brrrr! Aerosol sprays are a silly way to get frostbite
bodyodd.msnbc.msn.com/

I've had hair color get in to my eyes many times by accident over the years and can still see just fine (although it does sting like a bee)......but I always heard it was another activity that causes blindness if you do it to much?
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i am a cosmotologist, i am currently on tx, i am still coloring my hair, i am also quite gray, it makes me feel better about myself. as far as it being harmful, there are some studies, that have linked peroxide color to bladder cancer, so far i have been coloring my hair for thirty years, so far so good. never heard it being linked to the liver, i guess as long as you can achieve SVR, what does it matter! good luck with your hair i know mine has always been my calling card. mary ann
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As for Steven Tyler, he did tx, yes? Did he clear? "

Sorry 'beat I missed that.  As of last report a few months after treatment he was still UND but I haven't heard anything about it since...I'm hoping so he's had enough problems since he got divorced it seems to me.

Anyway.....and I found this where they talk about taking it internally via IV or drinking it. Not that I'd want to I'll stick to the wine.

Hydrogen Peroxide and Hepatotoxicity
Substances that are likely to damage the liver are typically referred to as "hepatotoxic" substances. Hydrogen peroxide is not a particularly hepatotoxic product. Although it can be quite dangerous (especially if used inappropriately), the liver is not specifically targeted by this product.
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Oh and ammonia - which let's hope nobody is taking internally or drinking. It would appear your liver can convert the small small small amount that might be able to get into your eyes easily enough.

Ammonia also plays a role in both normal and abnormal animal physiology. Ammonia is biosynthesised through normal amino acid metabolism and is toxic in high concentrations.[51] The liver converts ammonia to urea through a series of reactions known as the urea cycle.
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Hi Mary Ann,

Thanks for your input about those studies.

I was aware of the bladder cancer issue, as well as a lead poisoning one.

Are the darker dyes more problematic? (I don't use Grecian Formula and do go lighter!)  

I wonder if a colorist is at greater risk (if there is a risk) than the client who pops in every six or eight weeks?

Do you think the 'professional' products could be safer or not?

Here's this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hair_coloring


"Health concerns

There is ongoing debate regarding more serious health consequences that may result from use of hair coloring.

Recent publications regarding the dangers of hair tints include:

An FDA study that found lead acetate (the active ingredient in gradual darkening products such as Grecian formula) to be potentially toxic.[3][4]

Articles that link the development of some forms of cancer (including leukemia, non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, bladder cancer, blood cancer, and multiple myeloma) with use of hair color.[5][6][7] More specifically, prolonged use of permanent dark hair dyes can actually double a person's risk of getting various types of blood cancer.[8]

Recently a known human carcinogen, 4-Aminobiphenyl or 4-ABP, was found in some hair dyes that you can get off the shelf.[9] "

___________________________

Geez, I can't see myself giving up my highlights, ever.


Susan
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susan you are totaly right about the darker dye, also being a stylist, i have been exsposed to types of lung cancer, especially from what they call low dusting bleach, the kind you get your highlighting,s from ,oh well,by the way my color choice has always been the no 5 6 7 all the ones they say are not good, i guess when i die i hope i have had a fresh root job or i will be coming back to haunt someone. so stick with the blonde shades or highlighting your safest bet thanks for your words of wisdom, i never thought about exsposer in that way, although i had a blood transfussion in a army hospital late 70,s thanks again     mary ann
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Sheesh Bill....stealing wax from those poor defenseless turtles.  Couldn't you at least pick on somebody your own size?  I'm pretty sure Alligator wax would do just as well.
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http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Risk/hair-dyes

"....Although some studies have linked the personal use of hair dyes with increased risks of certain cancers of the blood and bone marrow, such as non-Hodgkin lymphoma (NHL) and leukemia, other studies have not shown such links. Studies of breast and bladder cancer have also produced conflicting results. Relatively few studies have been published about the association of hair dye use with the risk of other cancers (4). Based on its review of the evidence, IARC concluded that personal use of hair dyes is "not classifiable as to its carcinogenicity to humans" (5).
# What is the evidence that personal hair dye use is associated with risk of NHL?

A number of studies have investigated the relationship between the personal use of hair dyes and the risk of NHL, with inconsistent results. Because the small size of some studies may have limited their ability to detect associations, a pooled (combined) analysis of four case-control studies was carried out (6). All four studies had obtained detailed information on hair dye use, including dates and duration of use, and on NHL subtype. The pooled analysis included 4,461 women with NHL and 5,799 women who did not have NHL. The results of the study showed that women who began using hair dye before 1980 had a slightly (30 percent) increased risk of NHL compared with women who had never used hair dye, whereas no such increase in risk was seen for women who began using hair dye after 1980.

When the researchers analyzed the risks of several specific NHL subtypes, they found that hair dye users had increased risks of both follicular lymphoma and chronic lymphocytic leukemia/small lymphocytic lymphoma (6). For the most part, the increases were limited to women who began using hair dye before 1980, although an increased risk of follicular lymphoma was observed among women who began using dark-colored dyes after 1980. Although these results are consistent with the idea that earlier hair dyes were more carcinogenic, it is also possible that the absence of increased risk for hair dye users who began using dyes after 1980 reflects lower cumulative exposure levels or insufficient time since first exposure for any increase in risk to become apparent.
# What is the evidence that personal hair dye use is associated with risk of leukemia?

Studies of the association between personal hair dye use and the risk of leukemia have had conflicting results. For example, one case-control study examined hair dye use among 769 patients with adult acute leukemia and 623 people without leukemia in the United States and Canada (7). It found that the risks of acute leukemia were higher among users of earlier formulations of both permanent and nonpermanent (i.e., semipermanent and temporary) dyes than among those who had not used dyes, although the increases were not statistically significant. No risk increases were seen among users of more recent dye formulations. Risk was greatest among those who had used permanent dyes for longer durations (15 or more years).

However, a case-control study in Italy found no association between use of permanent hair dye overall and risk of leukemia, although users of black permanent dyes, but not of other color dyes, did have an increased risk. This study, however, did not collect information on the timing or frequency of hair dye use (8).
# What is the evidence that personal hair dye use is associated with risks of other cancers?

Research on personal hair dye use and risks of bladder and breast cancer has produced conflicting results. Data from multiple studies have been pooled as a way of analyzing the risks of these cancers among hair dye users.

An analysis of pooled data from 12 studies of bladder cancer and hair dye use published between 1977 and 2006 found no evidence that personal use of hair dyes is associated with increased risk of bladder cancer (9).

Researchers who reviewed data from 14 studies of female breast cancer and hair dye use published between 1977 and 2002 found that dye users had no increase in the risk of breast cancer compared with nonusers (4).

Research on hair dye use and the risks of other cancers is more limited. Although some studies have shown associations between hair dye use and risk of developing or dying from specific cancers, these associations have not been seen in other studies. Because of differences in study design, it has not been possible to pool the results of studies of most cancers.
# Where can a person find more information about hair dyes?

Information about specific hair dye ingredients is available from the National Toxicology Program (NTP), a Federal interagency program coordinated by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. The NTP's Web site is available at http://ntp.niehs.nih.gov on the Internet.

The NTP's Report on Carcinogens identifies agents, substances, or chemical mixtures that cause or might cause cancer in humans. The Eleventh Report on Carcinogens can be searched online at http://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/go/roc on the Internet. CDs of the Report can be ordered by contacting the NTP at:
Address: Report on Carcinogens
Post Office Box 12233, MD K2-14
Research Triangle Park, NC 27709"
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If you're going to drink wine with your hair coloring it's nice to know that if you do get WINE in your eye(s) you won't go blind - if it's a nice wine, that is.

Mike
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Mad Dog 20 20 (MD 20/20) is a very utililtarian wine.  You can sip it, apply it to your hair and lift the color up a couple of levels and clean your car with it all at the time.  As far eyes go, it may lead you to believe your eyesight is improving as all the guys and gals look prettier at closing time.

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Avatar_f_tn
You all have your own special sense of humor.  Brings a chuckle and lightness to a group who worry a lot and shoulder some great burdens.
Good medicine
Thanks,
Judy
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Avatar_n_tn
I have a client that has a reaction after hair color, is there a hair color that is safe enough that she wont have a reaction? She really wants color.
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Avatar_m_tn
Sorry I can "t help with the color thing.. ..  Just thought it was interesting Trin uses wine  for shampoo and car soap  as well as taking the edge off an ugly at the bar :)
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Avatar_m_tn
"Trin uses wine  for shampoo"

Red i hope, i've heard she eats nails for lunch...........
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Avatar_m_tn
"  i've heard she eats nails for lunch..".........
  
breakfast and dinner too..........
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