Hep C and cholesterol levels

Diagnosed in 1997 (exposed circa 1984), 49 yo female.  Have refused liver biopsy and all drug treatments.  Have done extensive dietary/lifestyle changes over the past 12 years.  Perform extremely intense physical exercise 4 to 5 times per week, eat organic according to the healthy diet principles of Weston A Price Foundation.  Recent blood test show AST 55, ALT 79, total cholesterol 229 (LDL 110, HDL 111, TRI 42).  Dr. concerned the high HDL could be related to a "nuerotoxic effect".  I don't understand; I feel great--should I be concerned?

[jmjm530]

Dr. concerned the high HDL could be related to a "nuerotoxic effect...I feel great--"
--------------
Unfortunately "feeling great" often doesn't translate into either cardiac or liver health, especially in regards to the HCV virus.

You can feel great with high cholesterol and have clogged arteries just as you can feel great with a fibrotic liver or even with a cirrhotic one.

See a good cardioloigst regarding those numbers because personally "neurotoxic effect" sounds like a little alternative med gibberish. That's a very nice HDL number IMO although you probably could lower your LDL a bit depending on other risk factors. FWIW the HCV virus can tend to lower cholesterol not raise it as your doctor sugggests.

I'd also suggest a liver biopsy becuase again, you can feel great but have a very  banged up liver with no symptons. In this case you would want to see a liver specialist (hepatologist).

I applaud your lifestyle changes but do not applaud a head in the sand attitude toward your liver condition. If a biopsy shows little or no damage, then by all means continue on with your current lifestyle and avoid the treatment drugs if you wish. On the other hand if the biopsy shows significant liver damage then you probably will want to treat as it will be real proof that your lifestyle by itself isn't enough to stave off liver damage.

I assume you would want to know what the real story of your liver health is. I would.

-- Jim

[pj111]

Thanks for the feedback.  I am not too concerned about the cardiac health.  With HDL that high and TRI that low the LDL is usually associated with a pattern of large, fluffy particles and athero protective.  If the HDL were low and the TRI were high, chances are the LDL are small dense particles, a pattern more closely related to CVD.

As far as the biopsy goes, I have opted against it simply because I see no point in dissecting my liver. I do not believe in chemotherapy in treating HCV.  It's all in the immune system.  I have used various herbs and other treatments to detoxify and heal the liver. Whether they work and I get results is yet to tell.

The current drugs cause of host of other ill effects such as lowered immunity, high blood pressure, thyroid issues, depression and many others.  Of course there are other drugs to treat those issues.  My head is not in the sand, I am just standing up to Pharma Cartel because there "cure" is worse than the cause.

[Marc1955]

Well, unfortunately you'll probably release a s**tstorm with that response.

But I'm not sure I understand. Let's say you develop cirrhosis of the liver when you're 65, as there is a good chance you will. Will you also deal with that with non-traditional techniques? And if you need a liver transplant, I'm assuming you'll refuse, since that is the ultimate invasive technique.

But you're comfortable putting all your eggs in one basket. I applaud you. I'm much more cautious by nature and less certain I'm right, especially when it comes to health issues that not only impact me but my family.

[jmjm530]

Whether they work and I get results is yet to tell.
------------
However that is the problem. Again, HCV is often without symptons until the liver has very serious scarring. Do you want to wait until you're symptomatic and need a liver transplant? A liver biopsy is sort of a reality check to see if the way you've been caring for your liver is working or not. You seem intelligent but in denial. Liver biopsy is quick and painless and the risks are very little -- far less than not coming to terms with what is actually going on inside.

[jmjm530]

Just want to add that there are many here who share some of  your concerns regarding the treatment drugs. I happen to be one of them. And for those reasons I decided not to treat for many years. But my last biopsy showed me to be stage 3, meaning that I had a very good chance of cirrhosis in the next 5-10 years without treatment. So I decided to treat because I didn't want to end up on a transplant list. I treated successfully and am now Hep C Clear (cured) for three years.

[copyman]

I have heard people talk like you many times only to see them a few years later with a swollen belly & ankles. HCV is a very resiliant virus and has a way of sneaking up and rearing its ugly head out of the clear blue. Sometimes being to late and you already have cirrhosis or liver cancer.  I'm not trying to scare you but these are facts.
You seem very knowledgeable about the cardio but are being very ignorant about your liver disease. I'm susprised with the research you have done you have no concern with your liver function tests ,AST 55 & Alt 79. even though these are not that elevated it still indicates inflamation (inflammation) and damage being done to your liver. If your lifestyle changes were working these #'s would be in the normal range.
Do yourself a favor, take Jim's advice and see a hepatologist.
Ignore your liver long enough and it will go away.
GOOD LUCK

[jmjm530]

AST 55 & Alt 79. even though these are not that elevated it still indicates inflamation (inflammation) and damage being done to your liver.
----------------
Correct. My guess is that these enzymes levels would be in the teens or twenties if the virus was treated. I thought my enzymes were normal at one point but they were only normal per the chart. After I treated they dropped down another 30 points each to the twenties and high teens.

[Trinity4]

"Well, unfortunately you'll probably release a s**tstorm with that response."

Surprisingly,  I'm not going to comment other than to say good responses from all and that was funny Marc.  The dust bowl does pass through here fairly often.  Thanks, I needed the laugh.

Trin

[pj111]

Tried to reply to all but that didn't work so will reply in order of receipt.

"Tstorm", how bout a hurricane?  Cirrhosis at 65?  There's a chance that could happen, but not a good one.  Chances are better not.  Yes, I will still deal with non traditional techniques.  A liver transplant?  Have not decided on that one at this point in time.  My eggs are not all in one basket, Dr. Allopathic's basket is just empty of my eggs.  I am cautious in many respects, not certain that I am "right" or by any means have all the answers just certain that Dr. Allopathic is wrong.

I am not in denial, just different in my chosen treatment.  Not afraid of a liver biopsy; feel it is unecessary since the results will not alter my current treatment decisions.  I am glad though to hear that you are clear for 3 years.

The future is unpredictable and I am very aware, not ignorant, of the possibilities.  The research I have done has also shown me that AST and ALT levels can be up to 4x elevated from muscle damage.  I am a strength and conditioning coach and perform intense, military style workouts 4 to 5x a week.  This could very well be the reason.  I have monitored them periodically for years through a gastroenterologist.  Last year, they were within normal limits after 3 weeks of no training due to a knee injury.

It is, in my opinion, unfortunate that more research has not been done in areas other than pharmacologic but not surprising since that is the usual source of funding as well as education.

[jmjm530]

PJ: Cirrhosis at 65?  There's a chance that could happen, but not a good one.
---------------------------------------------
You're very wrong.

"Most HCV patients, if untreated, are expected to develop cirrhosis at about 65 years, irrespective of the age at infection."

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/554637
(Free Registration Required)

-------------------
PJ: I am not in denial, just different in my chosen treatment.
--------------------
The problem is that the only way to know if your chosen treatment is working is to take a liver biopsy.

PJ: Not afraid of a liver biopsy; feel it is unecessary since the results will not alter my current treatment decisions
----------------------------------
So what you are saying is that if your liver biopsy showed you were very close to cirrhosis (in spite of all your current lifestyle choices) that you would still not treat knowing that the alternative to not treating would be cirrhosis and the possiblity of a liver transplant? As bad as treatment can be, it's hard to believe that someone would prefer to have cirrhosis and a liver transplant instead of treating -- and keep in mind that if you have a liver transplant they might make you treat anyway as a pre-requistite. Frankly, I really don't think you've thought this through with the proper information.

[nygirl7]

PJ: Cirrhosis at 65?  There's a chance that could happen, but not a good one.
---------------------------------------------
You're very wrong.

No, sadly you're very wrong.  You can eat grass for the rest of your life however the virus doesn't really care at all.  

Sadly it's usually the uninformed that cause the t-storms around here by saying ludicrous things but
.
Good luck to you, I have a feeling you are really going to need it in the future.

Your cholesterol really may be least of your problems.

[nygirl7]

By the way, contrary to what you believe an alt of 79 (if I remember right it's from 5 - 60) is showing us all that you have liver damage progressing as you speak. A liver enzyme is released whenever a liver cell dies. Normally some die every die but when they are high it is a reason to look and see what is causing this liver damage to happen and try to prevent it - unfortunately oftentimes they are high but not too high (or appear normal) when someone has gotten to the level of cirrhosis because there is no liver left to kill so you cannot tell how MUCH liver damage has been done by them but you can tell that the damage is occuring. Your is pretty far from my current alt of 10 and I am cured.

Biopsies are not dissections they are a responsible tool for taking a small sample to see if there is time to wait or not. Oftentimes, there is not because a person usually has no symptoms until very late in the game. I never had any and was stage 3 like I said I only found out because my enzymes were elevated.

If you've ever seen anyone die of end stage liver disease.......you would understand why treatment is preferable any given day of the week.  

[portann]

Sorry I can't help with the cholesterol question. I have high HDL and my doc seems happy about it. I haven't taken time to follow the cholesterol debate but probably will, now that I just finished 48 weeks of interferon and ribavirin therapy.

By the way, I only decided to tackle my HCV allopathically in 2008 after having HCV for over forty years. My hepatologist still didn't think I should treat.

PJ:  "Not afraid of a liver biopsy; feel it is unnecessary since the results will not alter my current treatment decisions ."

I would sincerely and strongly urge you to have a liver biopsy. I was very afraid to have one, unlike you. In my case, the biopsy procedure was effortless, painless and lightning quick. Later, I felt VERY foolish about my unfounded fears.

I was diagnosed two years before you were, in 1995, and delayed having a biopsy until 2001. Looking back, that was my bad, to wait for six years.

Even though I had HCV since 1969, I was still a Stage Zero in 2001. Pretty good news but it could have just as easily been different news, as some members can tell you first-hand.  People can live dream lifestyles of health and fitness and things can take a turn for the worse, anyway.

By having a liver biopsy now, you can rest assured your liver health isn't compromised. Only a biopsy will give you the accurate coordinates you need to plot your health location.

How many marathons you run can tell you nothing.

You may decide to never treat allopathically but in my opinion, keeping your eyes wide open via a one minute biopsy is the best insurance around. And I'm saying that as someone who was afraid to have one.

As for your high ALT, this can be caused by many things, including HCV. That is yet another reason to have a biopsy, to confirm your liver status:

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alanine_transaminase)

"...elevated levels of ALT do not automatically mean that medical problems exist. Fluctuation of ALT levels is normal over the course of the day, and ALT levels can also increase in response to strenuous physical exercise.[1]"


(http://www.aafp.org/afp/20050315/1105.html)

"A thorough medical history and physical examination are the cornerstone of the evaluation of patients with mildly elevated liver transaminase levels.1 The history should attempt to identify risk factors for disease, with special attention directed toward family history, medications, vitamins, herbal supplements, drug use, alcohol use, abnormal liver testing, blood-product transfusions, and symptoms of liver disease. Table 26 lists selected medications and herbal supplements that may cause elevated transaminase levels. Physicians should ask patients directly about their use of illicit drugs, herbal supplements, and other alternative "supplements" because these sometimes are omitted from the patient's initial response to questions.


Common Agents That Can Cause Liver Transaminase Elevations

Herbal supplements/vitamins
Chaparral leaf
Ephedra
Gentian
Germander
Jin bu huan
Kava
Scutellaria (skullcap)
Senna
Shark cartilage
Vitamin A

Medications
Acetaminophen
Amiodarone (Cordarone)
Amoxicillin- clavulanic acid
Carbamazepine (Tegretol)
Fluconazole (Diflucan)
Glyburide (Micronase)
Heparin
Isoniazid (INH)
Ketoconazole (Nizoral)
Labetalol (Normodyne)
Nitrofurantoin (Furadantin)
Nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs
Phenytoin (Dilantin)
Protease inhibitors
Sulfonamides
Trazodone (Desyrel)

The presence of other significant health conditions that can cause or augment liver transaminase elevations also should be noted; examples are diabetes, heart disease (including congestive heart failure), thyroid disease, muscle disease, and cancer. Physical findings and sequelae of liver dysfunction are given in Table 3.

Once the history and physical examination are completed, additional testing can help discern the etiology of the transaminase elevation (Figure 1).4"

[pj111]

To portann, thank you for the informative information.

To nygirl and jmjm; We could quote "sources" back and forth all day but the general consesus is that only about 5 to 10% of people infected with HCV go on to develop cirrhosis.  Most people are more likely to die with the virsus than from the virus.  There is a chance though that any individual will be in that 5 to 10% and whether to treat allopathically is a PERSONAL choice.

To nygirl:  I don't eat grass, only cows that grazed on it.  I had a dear friend die from end stage liver disease at the age of 43 and I saw a dear client basically self destruct from the effects of her treatment and continual onslaught of medications to counter the negative effects.  One is dead and the other is living with a quality of life akin to Hell.  Once again, a PERSONAL choice.

[jmjm530]

We could quote "sources" back and forth all day but the general consesus is that only about 5 to 10% of people infected with HCV go on to develop cirrhosis.  Most people are more likely to die with the virsus than from the virus.  
------------------
In all due respect, you are not up to speed on the latest studies. The "5-10%" statistics you talk about were from older studies that only went out 10-15 years and not to age 65. It is NOT the current consensus among liver specialists. Can I be any clearer? Why don't you actually read the study I posted and compare it to whatever older study you are referring to.

No one here disagrees that treatment is a "personal choice". What we take issue with is your ignorance of the facts making that choice. Sorry for the choice of the word "ignorance" but it's the only word that seems to fit.

[apache1]

pj111... you do seem like a reasonable educated women, be smart here.

Jim and everyone else is giving you some very good advice.

Read these new study Jim posted.  Many Dr aren't even up to speed.


apache

[jmjm530]

In the Zen tradition of Buddhism there is a story of a smart and eager university professor who comes to an old Zen master for teachings. The Zen master offers him tea and upon the man's acceptance he pours the tea into the cup until it overflows. As the professor politely expresses his dismay at the overflowing cup, the Zen master keeps on pouring.

"A mind that is already full cannot take in anything new," the master explains. "Like this cup, you are full of opinions and preconceptions." In order to find happiness, he teaches his disciple, he must first empty his cup.
---------------
You came here asking for help, yet you are full of older opinions and preconceptions.
In other words, forget the outdated info for a minute and read the d*mn study :) Then make up  your mind. No one is telling you to treat, we're just telling you to get your facts straight.

[copyman]

I hope i'm wrong but this person will be back here some day asking about help with cirrhosis or liver cancer. If some people only knew how horrible a death from liver failure is. It is probably one of the worst ways of dying.

[portann]

PJ's only forty-nine, you know. You and I had almost a decade on her when we decided to bite the bullet.

Lots can change in the next few years that will influence her to look on tx more favorably, starting with your study post. And if she does have a biopsy and is in the hands of a hepatologist, wouldn't that be a very positive development?

I never knew anyone personally who died of end stage or who was left debilitated by SOC. Both those experiences must have marked her deeply.

If anyone is ignorant, it's me, who started treatment like it was a contest I wanted to win.

[jmjm530]

Actually, given her age and sparse history presented, she will probably be OK for the next 10 years at least, but that's a "probably" and not anything close to a certainty. Why anyone would want to gamble with their life that way when there is a relatively risk-free test available (liver biopsy) is beyond me. If the biopsy shows little or no damage, then let her wait if she chooses. Don't think anyone has a problem with that. But if the biopsy shows she has cirrhosis or close to it, then my guess is that she will ditch her naturopath (or whatever) faster than I can look up the correct spelling of natoropath LOL and get treated properly.

-- Jim

[jmjm530]

PA: "Zim"
----------
I kinda like that, getting tired of "Jim"

[nygirl7]

Sad but true copyman but it is a personal choice we can only offer the knowledge we have learned in here by reading and studying as new information comes out...then it is up to the person to take it from there.

Why only a year ago nobody realized the real value of RVR on SVR - look now how much that has changed the world of hep science.

Good luck PJ - nobody is trying to berate some of us have been here for many years and we just have seen too much to not know how oftentimes it goes. I hope you open your mind to the new information but it you don't perhaps someday you will come back and ask this time for the people experienced in transplant at least - there are plenty of them on here that are WELL under 65.

[jmjm530]

PA: PJ's only forty-nine, you know. You and I had almost a decade on her when we decided to bite the bullet.
--------
Yup. But the big difference was that we had a biopsy report in front of us to make that decision, at least I did. First biopsy at age 20 in fact. Again, deciding when to "bite the bullet" and treat can be subjective. Not knowing the facts to base the decision on is stupid, IMO.

[portann]

Having a biopsy is a responsible and smart decision.

I didn't know that until 2001. It wasn't on my radar screen and I regret that greatly, although in my case I was lucky. There's simply no other way to do a reality check.

I swear my family doctor did and still does think following LFT's is enough.

[apache1]

quote from Jim:
In the Zen tradition of Buddhism there is a story of a smart and eager university professor who comes to an old Zen master for teachings. The Zen master offers him tea and upon the man's acceptance he pours the tea into the cup until it overflows. As the professor politely expresses his dismay at the overflowing cup, the Zen master keeps on pouring.

"A mind that is already full cannot take in anything new," the master explains. "Like this cup, you are full of opinions and preconceptions." In order to find happiness, he teaches his disciple, he must first empty his cup.
---------------
You came here asking for help, yet you are full of older opinions and preconceptions.
In other words, forget the outdated info for a minute and read the d*mn study :) Then make up  your mind. No one is telling you to treat, we're just telling you to get your facts straight.
==============================================================

Very good post Jim, it deserved a copy and paste.

Pb111, why didn't you even read the study ?
You think it was because you did not want to know, or that you already thought you knew and weren't going to change your mind no matter what.

Well here is the first part of the study... note the conclusion, I stared it for you.
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/554637
=============================================================

Background: Age at infection is known to be associated with disease progression rate in hepatitis C virus (HCV) infected patients. The aim of this study was to assess when cirrhosis is expected to occur according to host and viral factors.
Methods: Fibrosis progression was studied in 247 naive HCV patients using multiple regression analysis. The expected age at cirrhosis was calculated for each patient.
Results: Progression rate was 0.13, 0.14, 0.27, and 0.36 U of fibrosis/year for patients with age at infection ≤19, 20–24, 25–36 and ≥37 years, respectively. Age at infection above 37 years was independently associated with fast progression (rate>0.13; P=0.001). Body mass index >25 kg/m2 and alanine aminotransferase>3 × ULN are also possibly associated with faster progression. Based on progression rates, the expected age at cirrhosis is 65.4, 64.6, 64.8 and 69.4 years for age at infection ≤19, 20–24, 25–36, ≥37 years, respectively.

****Conclusion: Most HCV patients, if untreated, are expected to develop cirrhosis at about 65 years, irrespective of the age at infection.****

Thus, age itself seems even more important than age at infection for predicting the occurrence of liver cirrhosis. A specific active monitoring and therapeutic approach should be adopted in older patients to prevent progression to cirrhosis and its complications.
Introduction

Hepatitis C virus (HCV) infection has been identified as the main reason for end stage liver disease, approaching 50% of liver transplantations performed in the US.[1] Although several prospective studies have reported low rates of liver complications[2–6] after HCV infection, it is generally agreed that progression of liver disease in 20–30% of patients can lead to compensated and eventually decompensated cirrhosis or hepatocellular carcinoma or both.[7, 8] However, two main issues remain to be clarified. Once a patient with HCV infection has been identified, the first question is to know whether this patient will progress to liver complications, mainly cirrhosis. If yes, the second issue is to know how fast he will progress taking into account identified factors possibly associated with the rate of progression.

Based on the assessment of the rate of fibrosis progression, the aim of the present study was to determine when cirrhosis is expected to occur with regard to host and viral factors.
============================================================



Or maybe I am wrong and you did read the study, and disagree with all the experts and there statistical data. Or you think they are all part of a big pharma conspiracy ?


apache empty his tea cup all over keyboard.

[pj111]

I've been busy working.  Anyway, thanks for copy/paste the study.  I did go on the website.  This study basically says 20-30%; I've seen ones that say 5-10%, they may very well be older studies.  So, I assume approximately 1/3 would be a group consensus?  This one, as well as any study or "source of statistics" may possibly be biased.  WebMD, eMedicine, medscape; they've all been affected by Big Pharma's politics and money.  And if you don't believe that, then you too are ignorant.  My doctor is not a "natoropath" but an Integrative Physician which means he practices both conventional and alternative medicine.

I came here with a question about cholesterol.  My intent was not to stir up a t storm or impose my personal beliefs on anyone.  You all have been very helpful; I thank you for the information you have provided and I respect your decisions and opinions.  I wish you all the best in health and success in defeating this virus.

I find we are of very differing viewpoints, on a different wavelength so to speak so I will no longer be posting.  We are all in the same boat and the best path to success has not been ascertained as of yet; let's just wish each other the best of luck, no matter which path one chooses.

Goodbye and good luck.

[nygirl7]

"And if you don't believe that, then you too are ignorant"

Regardless of your foolish decision we all wish you all the luck in the world.
Just remember big pharma had nothing to do with the stage of my disease however they did save my life when sticking my head in the sand would not.

Someday, when you need them - you will be very glad indeed that they exist.
See you then.

Goodbye.

[jmjm530]

PJ: This study basically says 20-30%; I've seen ones that say 5-10%, they may very well be older studies.  So, I assume approximately 1/3 would be a group consensus?
-----------
No. The study says "Most HCV patients, if untreated, are expected to develop cirrhosis at about 65 years, irrespective of the age at infection."

Since when does "most" equal 1/3?

[copyman]

why waste your time replying to this person. she has her mind made up and that is it.  please let this thread go away. just say a prayer for her and move on

[jmjm530]

Yeah, I guess Darwin had it right.

[apache1]

I hope you guys are wrong, and we can help her, help herself.


Quote from PB111:
=============================================================
I did go on the website.  This study basically says 20-30%; I've seen ones that say 5-10%, they may very well be older studies.  So, I assume approximately 1/3 would be a group consensus?
=============================================================

Huh ??? Are we reading the same study ???
...admit it, you still haven't read the study. Or do you just understand Zen ?
Or is it, you flat out don't buy it, and think whoever is telling you
"most die with hep c not from hep" is the Zen gospel, and since it sounds cool, it must be true.

Where do you get "20-30% or 1/3" out this study ?
=============================================================
****Conclusion: Most HCV patients, if untreated, are expected to develop cirrhosis at about 65 years, irrespective of the age at infection.****
=============================================================

[jmjm530]

Where do you get "20-30% or 1/3" out this study ?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
If accidently put the study into a dryer for too long or too hot a setting then you can come out with 20-30%. I consider myself a careful person but it happened to a favorite T-shirt once.

[apache1]

Its obvious you have questions on your mind about your condition, from the title of your post
"Hep C and cholesterol levels"

Seriously, why not find out. You don't have to do agree to treatment to get liver tests.

At least get a fibrosure blood test, It will give you an idea of your stage of liver disease. Or maybe see a real Hepatologist, just for a consult to see where you stand ? Exactly what harm could this cause.

Maybe your liver is perfectly normal with no damage, and you can go on just like you have. Don't tell me your not wondering about what is really going on in your liver, or causing your high liver enzymes and cholesterol. And  you liver enzymes, yes they are high. Not like mine were, in the hundreds, but high none the less, and diffidently out of range on any test scale.

If your reasoning about exercise causing high enzymes was true, than mine would be off the charts. I spend hours in the gym every day, and my enzymes test beginning of the month were in the teens, again. My enzymes have been like that for months now, since I cleared the virus. I was in the military, and know all about your tough work outs. There is no more room on the bar for any more weighs on my leg press. I bench 10sets with 4 big plates. I could go on, but this thread is about you. You get the idea, your enzymes are not normal. This means you have ongoing liver damage. It however does not tell you the amount of damage your liver has sustained.

Many here are doing a wait and watch approach with little to no liver damage. Some are even waiting with stage 3. This is OK, however to you must be diligent on the 'watch' part, And you totally dropped the ball here.

Or is the real reason,
you are scared to death, of finding out your true state of health ?
Don't feel alone, all of us have been there, at least at one point.

I truly wish you the best of luck,
apache

[agatha56]

Hey guys I was watching the news today and They said that the drug teleprivir , is that how it is spelled, will be out for everyone next year and that it is working very well in the trials. I was surprised to actually see it on the news. Just thought i would let everyone know. Don't know if this is widely known.

[Pardesi108]

Hi Agatha, yes, I saw a news story today about a new treatment for Hep C going through clinical trials. I think it was in yahoo news. Here it is:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/hsn/20090429/hl_hsn/newtreatmentcombobetteragainsthepatitisc

[portann]

Hot post!

[BelB64]

The study is a little confusing. If you read the whole thing it says genotype plays no role in progression of the disease and then goes on to say most will get cirrhosis at about age 65 EXCEPT women who get the disease before age 37 AND are genotype non-1. They won't get cirrhosis until age 89 on average. A definite contradiction.

Also the 20-30% getting cirrhosis is right in the study. "Although several prospective studies have reprorted low rates of liver complications after Hepatitis C infection, it is generally agreed that progrssion of liver disease in 20%-30% of patients can lead to compensated and eventually decompensated cirrhosis or heptaocellularcarcinoma or both"  

I don't believe there are ANY studies and the CDC still maintains that the number of deaths out of every 100 with Hepatitis C is about 5-10.  Even if they are off by 30%, the statement most will die with Hep C and not from it is most likely true. Also they estimate 10,000 deaths per year from Hep C now and it will triple in the next few years. There are supposedly 4,000,000 with the disease. If 30,000 die each year(which hasn't happened yet) it would take 150 years for everyone with Hep c to pass from it!!!

It's a terrible disease and I have a loved one with it, but it isn't killing most with it and hopefully with all the new drugs coming especially the combinations WITHOUT interferon, like the promising INFORM-1 trial that works across ALL genotypes, Hepatitis c in the next 5 years will be very controllable.

[fretboard]

I am cautious in many respects, not certain that I am "right" or by any means have all the answers just certain that Dr. Allopathic is wrong.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't know if you're really as cautious as you think you are and I don't know anything about Dr Allopathic.  I have a couple of friends who have gone the herbal route but they chose it after having a liver biopsy.  Maybe you can get by with just a fibrosure test at least that would be better than going about your life thinking that all is fine only to find out that your ALT has climbed a wall and is trying it's damnest to fight off the HepC.  That's what's happening, I hope you do something about it.  good luck  

[jdwithhcv]

"Dr. concerned the high HDL could be related to a "nuerotoxic effect".  I don't understand; I feel great--should I be concerned?"
====================================

Does your doctor suspect a particular neurotoxin?  Are you aware of having been exposed to a neurotoxin?

jd

[newleaf09]

Please have a biopsy.  I felt great and was strong as an ox until last summer when I started bruising and itching and was dancing up against liver failure.  Hepatitis C is that insidious.  You think that your internal organs will give you a hint if things are going south, like hurting, but they don't.  It's just a horrible surprise.

Liver failure is usually the only indication that most get.  When you read about what dying of liver failure is like, there could not be a worse way to die except maybe emphysema.  Don't make assumptions.  Get proactive.  No nasty side effect is as bad as death.