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Hep C caused by military air-injected immunizations
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Hep C caused by military air-injected immunizations

I want to know if anyone knows of persons that may have had air-injected immunizations while i the military (vietnam era)? They line up one by one and get hit with the same air-injected gun, everyone had blood running down their arm. I firmly believe that's where I first came in contact with the virus but it could be a number of other things too.
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Avatar_f_tn
Hi and welcome to the forum.

My husband is one of the people you are talking about. But he is not Vietnam vet. He was infected in 1983, on the first day of NAVY basic training. Everything just like you describe: bunch of people immunized with the same air jet device, blood going down their arms... He never used drugs, never had transfusions, tattoos, or even major surgeries. So after wondering for a long time where he could have been infected, he finally remembered that fateful day. Before he retired from the military, they offered him hepatitis C test, but he declined, because he considered himself low risk. I am almost glad that he didn't take it, because our life was much nicer when we didn't know about this disease. He got diagnosed 5 years ago by the blood test administered by the life insurance company.
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Avatar_m_tn
I did.  Vets make up a very big % of Hep C patients.  And most of us are from the Vietnam Era.  
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Avatar_m_tn
Millions of schoolkids, my self included received several injections by air guns. The only way for blood to be running down someone's arm from an air injector is if they flinched and pulled away at the time of injection. I find it rather curious that so many servicemen flinched while millions of school girls didn't.
ML
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Avatar_f_tn
That doesn't surprise me at all. Men are very sensitive to pain. And most of them hate needles/sticking devices of any kind.

Vernon told me that a lot of people flinched that day. There was a lot of blood.

I also read that even if the person doesn't flinch at all, small amount of blood still gets into device and can infect the next person in line. No matter the device, it is just wrong to use one device for a bunch of people. But nobody thought about it back then.

I am originally from Russia, and in late 80s we still had reusable needles, syringes, even IV systems. How can you sterilize the needle? It is impossible. Looking back at all this just horrifies me. There was a lot of hepatitis B and, probably C, which was called non A non B.  Fortunately, I didn't get any shots back then, not even immunizations, because my mom refused. I did get all childhood infections, but escaped hepatitis.  
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142841_tn?1201978652
Yep...Navy bootcamp, NS Great Lakes, Illinois in April 1976.
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Avatar_m_tn
"Men are very sensitive to pain. And most of them hate needles/sticking devices of any kind."

Just to be clear millions of schoolboys (myself included again) didn't flinch either. It seems that just soldiers do that.

You know plenty of women served in Viet Nam ,yet in ten years now I've yet to hear one story about air guns and HCV infection from a lady who served. Almost 3 million vets served in country and another 6 million that are regarded as Viet Nam era vets served at home and elsewhere . That's 9 million VN era vets. I would think we'd be hearing women vets citing the same accounts with vaccinations and the whole blood dripping down their arms  scenario with some madman at the helm of the airgun randomly firing off shots at anyone he thinks he can hit.  HCV infection among VN era vets is higher than the general population at large, but not by much. One very important consideration for the higher infection rates besides drug abuse and that is a tainted blood supply. Once HCV gets into the "walking blood supply" in a war  situation then anyone needing blood products (wounded and injured) can be at a higher risk for contracting HCV and more. It can be spread very efficiently and on a larger scale in this fashion than from an air injector.

How come I don't hear vets talking about the rampant drug use in VN much of it IVDU ? The place was flooded with white heroin, tar heroin, opium, morphine, and meth. This was a conscript military, not a volunteer one remember, and drug use was sky high in this era.

I'm not saying that it would be impossible to become infected through injections I just don't believe all of this flinching took place on such a grand scale. I have heard this same story repeated 100 times practically verbatim over the last decade. How come I never hear a vet simply say that he shot up in Nam and that was probably how they got infected ? Could it be that you can't get service connected disability from IVDU but just might if a claim of infection through an air gun is accepted by the military ?

Please don't take this personally as I am allowing for the fact transmission could take place via airguns, and I'm not attempting to impugn the character of anyone. I just question what actually accounts for the higher infection rates of Viet Nam vets.
Best regards, ML
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Avatar_m_tn
I did not wince from the pain.  but the guys giving us the shots did not take the time to place the guns on the arms and make sure they were set.  150 new recruits lined up, air guns on both side, they got all of us through in less than 5 minutes.  I ended up with cuts on both arms from them sliding the guns accross my arms and the pressure from the air sliced them.  The guy in front and the guy in back were both bleeding as well.  

You sir may find that school girls did not flinch as much as service men, but I ben none of them had cuts accross their arms either.  

Even the VA has not admitted that there is credence to the airgun and hep C argument.  Vets can now get treatment becuase of this.  

And it is not Viet Nam vets it is Vietnam Era vets...which incompasses the period that the guns were used.
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Avatar_m_tn
Here are some articles on the air/jet guns:

http://www.hcvets.com/data/transmission_methods/jetgunsDoD-pg6.pdf

http://www.hcvets.com/data/transmission_methods/SCimmunizationsbyjetgun.htm

http://www.hcvets.com/data/transmission_methods/jet_injection_public_health_lab.htm

http://www.ha.osd.mil/afeb/reports/vaccines.pdf

Is this enough, I can get more.

And by the way, I do think you are attacking vets.  I have personally had three friend die from liver failure, none of them ever used drugs, got tatoos, etc.  The only thing they had in common was that all three were in the armed forces between 1967 and 1975.  How dare you equate soldiers willing to fight and die for their country as being weaker than school girls.  Do your own reasearch and go out and talk to vets.
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96938_tn?1189803458
"How come I don't hear vets talking about the rampant drug use in VN much of it IVDU?"

Because there wasn't much IVDU there.  Those practioners did not need to shoot the stuff.  The purity made it perfectly effective by snorting or smoking.  In fact, much less snorting than smoking.
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Avatar_m_tn
I'm sure that you must realize that this is a hot button for many people.  Many vets were infected using a process which is a vector for transmission.  Vets have been fighting for recognition that air gun injection was indeed a factor.  The government has not been willing to own up to their responsibility.  I was reading a HCV pamphlet distributed by the VA in.....2005, or thereabouts and it still did not list air gun injection as one of the risk factors.  It seems to many Vets that the VA prefers to allege that drug use was the cause.  It also appeared to some that it was preferable to not diagnose this group, to then increase the stigma attached to the infection as a drug abuse issue.  I think that the US government could have done a better job of the way it was handled and THAT it may have cost people their lives.

I appreciated the insight into how having an already infected blood supply in Viet Nam further increased the chances of blood to blood contact in the field.  Given the tainted supply and the amount of blood shed in battle one might also conclude that there may not have been that much IVDU since that method of transmission is very efficient.

Interesting point about the flinching.  I would also float out the possibility that instead of attributing the blame to the person receiving the shot that the people administering the shot could also have been the issue.

     One has to wonder it the soldiers were given the same care as the grade school children as to whether the administration would have produced less transmission.  I have the general impression that the soldiers may have gotten been subjected to greater haste, less care and administered by perhaps less trained individuals or on in accordance with correct administration procedure.
  
     Hell, if they even knew what the procedure was they probably opted to ignore it opting instead for *production*. You see, it could have been the- get it done, pain is good attitude, "soldier up" attitude that contributed to the infection, especially when administered by cowboys and not trained RN's.  ; )

I wonder if you can compare the two different settings and conclude that the transmission rate would be the same?  Was there blood dripping from the guns at the grade schools?  Maybe the shots were administered by trained professionals and according to procedure.  Even today there are nocosomial transmission issues where procedure is not followed, whether through intention or ignorance.

best,
Willy
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Avatar_f_tn
My husband never ever used drugs. And what I posted comes from his recollection of events. I hope you don't imply that he is just making this up.  It would be the same as saying that people who experience long term sides from interferon also just make it up.

We can not and do not want to get anything from the military for infecting Vernon. It is impossible to prove. This day is long gone.  It is enough for us to know and to understand how and when it happened. We have good insurance that military provides, and we are happy with that.

I don't know why there are less Vietnam era women vets that are infected, but I am sure that they exist. Maybe the reason is that there was much less women serving then men. Or maybe some of them still go undiagnosed, because it is well known that in women hepatitis C is not as aggressive as in men. But the reality is that there are a lot of infected vets. The proportion is much higher than in general population.
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Avatar_f_tn
I know many guys who contracted HCV during their Vietnam Era service.  None of them used IV drugs.  These guys are decorated combat veterans.  What did YOU do in the war?
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96938_tn?1189803458
Although this is not necessarily germane to the discussion, but to set the visual correctly.  The air/jet vaccinations took place in the US.  Generally speaking, the settings were shortly after induction and took place at boot camps, basic training depots and the like.  There was no need for vaccination while 'in-country' since the process was to be adequately vaccinated before departure.
To possibly connect, or disconnect, some dots...It does not make sense that Viet Vets were the infecting source through the air/jets. You see, the Vets would not be in the innoculation line with the newly-minted recruits.  The Vets were already at the other end of the conveyer belt.  Therefore, if Hep-C was introduced in the long olive line it probably traveled in from the street with the recruits.
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Avatar_m_tn
You are correct.  And it was the inability of the military to have the guns used correctly by the draftees that were doing the inoculations.  Again, when I went through the line it was one after another, then the next group.  I say over 150 men innoculated and not once was a gun cleaned or wiped down.  Also, since they went so fast, on mine they pulled the trigger befroe it was completely set and then they moved it....nice little cut on my arm...how do I remember that, I had the army sent me my medical records when I was trying to get help withmy hep c.
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163305_tn?1333672171
My husband got it that way.  He thinks he gave it to me but who knows? He's one of those who aren't affected by the disease and only got tested when I was diagnosed.
I know of a couple of other guys who got it that way too. Once has since died from the disease.

Does anyone think this is the reason  HCVis kept quiet, that they try to say its just a druggie disease?
Just think about how much money it would cost the Vets if they had to pay for this like they did for agent orange.
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Avatar_f_tn
Hi Bronzestar,

Welcome and I hope you can sort out your situation and figure out your best next move. Are you thinking about treating very soon or waiting for what looks like a better combo of drugs to eradicate the virus? This new protocol is currently in trials but may emerge very soon as the new protocol. It's worth your while to learn as much as you can about your options.

You (Bronzestar) say:  "I firmly believe that's where I first came in contact with the virus but it could be a number of other things too."

That sums up pretty well what people say when they don't know for sure how they got HCV. I myself say I firmly believe I got it through the doctor or dentist because I can't think how else I got it. Did I really?  I'd like to know but no, I don't know and never will.

I also have a firm belief that most people probably don't know for sure.  

Looking at your profile picture, I see a very handsome dude and a gorgeously large tatoo. Maybe the tatoo played a role, maybe not. Maybe you had surgery as a kid, maybe you went to the dentist, maybe you played 'blood brothers', maybe, maybe, gosh, so many maybes. And, as Mr. Liver said, transmission could have taken place via airguns. Maybe...

Vietnam, by the way, has the highest rate of HCV in the world, surpassing Egypt. (Egypt's high rate was ironically caused by a 'modern' mass immunization program that failed to use appropriate delivery equipment.)  And although I don't consider sex a high risk factor for transmission, there's a notable exception, and that's for very rough sex, for example, rape. With Vietnam having such a remarkably high incidence of HCV and with reports of rape during the war, that might be another possibility in the closet. Maybe....

The thing is to move forward and ask yourself if you're ready to tackle this dam-ned virus.  I think the VA provides opportunities to treat (could be wrong but there are people here who could point you in the right direction).

Best of luck. You can do this. Heck, I did.

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Avatar_f_tn
"This new protocol is currently in trials " s/b, "This new combo is currently in trials."
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Avatar_m_tn
Read this:

http://hcvets.com/data/transmission_methods/Statements/Page4.htm
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Avatar_m_tn
I remember years ago a member in a forum told a small group of us that genotype 1's could not be cured of HCV.  They asked if we knew any and at that moment...... none of us did know of a member geno 1 who had an SVR.  It appeared that the assertion could be correct, but none of us believed it to be true.  Hahah; it wasn't.

In this case look at the number of actual women in the Viet Nam forces;
http://userpages.aug.com/captbarb/femvetsnam.html
"Army, Navy and Air Force Nurses and Medical Specialists numbered over six thousand.

I don't know the actual number and I don't know what they would include if it were enlarged to be the "Viet Nam Era".  
....But.....if that number were correct and one assumed a 10% infection rate....that would leave a mere 600 female vets in our pool to make assumptions about.

One might correctly argue that this pool was not involved in active combat and might have reduced risk.  
One might also wonder; were they in the same air gun lines as the other vets?  Given the numbers involved I don't even know if airguns were used on women.  Even if they were it would seem unlikely that it was in the same mass production innoculations.  But once again; I don't know.

I'm not sure that you have made a strong case that the infections were caused by flinching.  I have wondered if line pressure could also do it.  A bad regulator or more *zeal* could account for that.  

Probably everyone agrees that there was drug use in Viet Nam.  If it were truly rampant the drug use of either IV or by snorting vectors might leave us with higher infection rates.  It also does not answer the question about all the people who deny drug use of how they acquired the virus.  I often think that the notion of IV drug use gets "sold" to obfuscate the possibility of nocosomail infection, such as in this case air gun injection.  I believe that about 30% of us with HCv don't know how they got it.  Surely that percentage may also be reflected in the veteran population.

By the way, as Portann also touched on HCV can be transmitted though acts of violence, such as in hand to hand combat or even in contact sports.  Surely this must have also occurred in Viet Nam amoungst Vets, but perhaps less so with women veterans.

I'm not running down the people who administered the vaccines.  i wasn't there in either case; the schools or in Nam.  What I wrote was that if protocols were not followed the chance of infection would likely rise.  Yes, actual RN's or doctors with years of training and practice might do a better job than was seen in the military.

If you read some of those links you'll find that the protocols in using the airguns were far less existent in the 70's and were not adhered to especially in the military.  Adults of military age may have very good recollection about the event whereas I wonder how many first graders even remember the day.  Perhaps the fact that the protocols were revised and improved and the infection rate dropped could be seen as proof that it was not safe but when certain protocols ARE followed it is far more safe. ; )  It's possible.

I think at the heart of this thread and the upset is that Vets resent being forgotten, feel that they are not supported for their sacrifice, and quite often even blamed for acquiring the infection.  Who wouldn't be pi$$ed?

best,
Willy

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Avatar_m_tn
The term is "nonsocomial infection" and it means "hospital acquired infection". Air-gun acquired infection would not be considered nonsocomial unless the procedure was carried out in a hospital. It's a nice term but it applicability is restricted to hospital acquired infections.
Mike
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Avatar_m_tn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nosocomial_infection
Nosocomial infections are infections which are a result of treatment in a hospital or a healthcare service unit, but not secondary to the patient's original condition. Infections are considered nosocomial if they first appear 48 hours or more after hospital admission or within 30 days after discharge. Nosocomial comes from the Greek word nosokomeion (νοσοκομείον) meaning hospital (nosos = disease, komeo = to take care of). This type of infection is also known as a hospital-acquired infection (or more generically healthcare-associated infection)."
----------------------------------------------------

I see that one might even have trouble proving HCV is nosocomial given the time constraints, but it gets used.  (LOL; this is the correct spelling; in my haste earlier I didn't spell check, but I got in all the right letters.  ; )  )

I used the term a few times but particularly here;
"I often think that the notion of IV drug use gets "sold" to obfuscate the possibility of nocosomail infection, such as in this case air gun injection.  I believe that about 30% of us with HCv don't know how they got it.  Surely that percentage may also be reflected in the veteran population."

My point is that whether the infection occurred via airgun injection, through transfusions, or any pathway that in any way detracts from our health care system it isn't always welcomed.  I feel as though the virus has been given a stigma and that stigma in part is to cover for poor practices, protocols or ignorance in the state of health care when it occurred.  It's easy to blame the recipient for their disease, much harder to accept some responsibility.  The fact that the VA argued so strenuously and for so long that air gun use was not a vector of transmission speaks in part to what I am talking about.

I think it's another reason this thread has a bit of emotion in it.

Willy
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Avatar_m_tn
It was incorrect usage and spelling willy and the longest post in the world will not alter that fact.
We strive for accuracy here - remember?
Mike
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96938_tn?1189803458
Is it my imagination or have some comments been deleted from this thread?
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Avatar_m_tn
Not sure how I got it but I also braved the "gauntlet" in basic, Jan 1971 jerry
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Avatar_m_tn
I keep coming back to the word spelled like this;
nosocomial

You wrote;
nonsocomial, but I can't find that used even when I copy it into a browser.

I think you may be splitting infinitives.  We would use the term it if the action took place in a hospital but not if the same action took place in a health care service unit?  

Either way, my use was not limited to air gun infection but any other sources of medically transmitted HCV such as might take place in hospitals.

If one accepted the generic definition of "(or more generically healthcare-associated infection)" then that might also include the air gun injections or healthcare which was provided while in the armed services.

Willy
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1140115_tn?1348499315
FlGuy, no... it's not your imagination.  A few posts were reported and they were removed because they were taking the discussion away from the original topic and into some pretty negative, uncivil territory.  I appreciate the way you folks brought things back to the topic at hand.  

Claire
MedHelp.org
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Avatar_m_tn
Since my last post was deleted, let me try to say it again that is not uncivil.. Although some that are are still here.

mr. Liver,  I did read you whole post.  My point is that the numbers we are talking about are not just Vietnam Vets, but vets from that area.  I understood the numbers you gave, but then you went on to talk about the drugs, etc foun in Vietnam.  I never went to Nam, and yet I have Hep C.  I did not inject drugs, etc while in the service.  I do have a tatoo, but that came in the early 90's, after I had been diagnosed with nonA-non B.

I have contacted my American Legion post to find out how women in the military were inoculated, but what I can remember is that they did not have the air guns, but I can not prove that yet.

Also, the men (boys) doing the inoculations when I went in were not doctors, they were medics in training, just out of basic themselves, so no they were not completely trained on the use of the guns.

This is a very emotional topic for us vets.  And while everyone has the freedom to question, I take the offense in not questioning but the reference to school girls and gi's.  Again, I would bet the school girls that got the shots were not moved through at a lightening fast rate......
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1016618_tn?1299941570
Just my 2 cents. I believe I was infected by the air guns. I enlisted in the Marine Cops in 1972 and had my physical in Nashville, TN. I have applied for help from the VA and the jury is still out, that was about 6 months ago.
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142841_tn?1201978652
yep...some comments are deleted, and some other replies are not.  It makes for a choppy read if you arrive late.

There is another way for people receiving vaccinations in an airgun line to become infected.

If you don't buy the macho soldiers/sailors flinching, then consider a mean-spirited air gun operator.  For instance, if someone presents at the front of the line looking squeamish (or just geek-ish), an operator with a touch of a masochistic streak could also flinch.  All it takes is for the airgun to be in motion when it fires to draw blood.
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Avatar_m_tn
I am a Nam vet (1967) and have hep. Air stream injected injectors were deemed as a cause of HCV in 2005 by the VA. If you feel that you were infected by the military file a claim. Please read the HCVvet.com site for more info. Disregard the comments from the wanna be folks who wished to be vets but could not. Take care of yourself and beat the dragon. BTW I took the treatments and been UDT for 9 months post TX.
Peace
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Avatar_f_tn
Good thread from 2008 which supports what most have said here.  
The information is undeniable, contrary to what a certain individuals may think.    

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Hepatitis-C/Military-Veterans/show/82241
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148588_tn?1401923955
http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/153/8/764

Incidence of geno 1 is the same as in the civilian population. This would suggest the stateside predeployment innoculations were a likely cause of the high incidence of HCV in this group. If original exposure occured in SE Asia, we would see more geno 6, 3e, and other area specific genotypes.
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Avatar_m_tn
Another vet here that served long after the Vietnam War and the Air Gun injectors were still in use when I went to basic training in the early 1980's. I also still received injections from the air guns well into the 90's. To say that you would have to flinch to get blood transfer through this system is inaccurate.  Additionally, this type of vaccine dispenser has been removed from service after most major health organizations recognized the potential hazards.  From the joint manual for immunizations:

" The DOD and USCG withdrew needle-free multi-use nozzle jet injectors (MUNJIs) capable of 600 or more injections per hour, formerly identified within the DOD supply systems as "hypodermic injection apparatus jet automatic:115 volt or foot operated" in 1997 due to safety concerns.  Their use of the same unsterile nozzle and fluid pathway to inject consecutive patients could allow transmission of blood borne pathogens. (I omitted the brand names). These devices remain unapproved and will not be used."

Comparing the women who served in Vietnam and their risk to exposure is difficult as women were denied many of the opportunities that they have in today's military.  Women made up less than 1.5% of the total military in 1970 and they were denied combat roles.  
Fellow Vets, the VA will recognize service connection for Hep C if you can make the connection between an in-service action and infection.  This is obviously extremely challenging for Vietnam Vets (or anyone already separated or retired) but there are people getting service connection everyday.  In my experience the VA caseworkers are not the "bad guys", they just have policies and rules that they must adhere to.  Good luck.
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338734_tn?1377163768
I served in 72 through 74. Fortunately, the blood I saw in the air gun lines was the only blood I saw, though.

I think if you look at the full study you will find that the DOD conveniently left out the late vietnam era vets from the studies. They looked at the increases during the Korean conflict and then tested military personnel from the 80's and 90's. At least that is what I came away with from the government studies on the issue. I think the data they left out speaks almost as loudly as the data they did include. The DOD could easily conduct a retrospective study that would definitively answer the question (of increased risk, not necessarily the air gun issue) if they wanted to. I haven't seen this yet. I guess none of the generals in the Pentagon wants to spend the money to turn over that particular rock. They have enough to deal with along the lines of Agent Orange and complaints from vets from the Gulf war.

I don't know about flinching among soldiers or little girls, but I can say unequivocally that there was plenty of blood at the shot station. To say that the shots were administered to the soldiers with less care than those administered to school children has got to be a huge understatement that only those who were in the military during the "draft" can appreciate. But it is not like the shooters were dipping the air guns in pools of spent blood, either.

I am with Willy and others on the way the issue has been handled by the government. The military is only too glad to cover their butts with the "rampant drug use" issue and the tainted blood supply. Of all the old 60's drug users, it seems the ones who ended up serving Uncle Sam have a higher incidence of infection. I can't prove it, but it is my gut feeling.  As for myself, I had previously used IV drugs, so I can't make a claim that Uncle Sam infected me, but I believe he did infect others.
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419309_tn?1326506891
Perhaps it's relevant to think about the populations being compared: if were to put thousands of school girls in 1968 in one room (flinching or not), and thousands of young able-bodied young men averaging the age of 19 in 1968 in another room, what's the likelihood of hcv incidence in room one compared to room two?  The likelihood of infection is skewed not by flinching or not flinching, but rather the possibility of a source of transmission... or it seems to me.

And yes, my husband was a Vietnam Era US Marine, air-gun vaccinated, served 13 months in active (and bloody) combat, was med-evacked twice, no IV drug use, and has hep c type 1.
~eureka
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Avatar_m_tn

Yup........Fort Dix New Jersey...Sept 29, 1969  
Delta 62  Boot Camp  ...  Given the same Air Gun shots
in Both Arms !    Blood runningdown everyones arms and Nobody took the time to wipe them off with a pad and Alcohol after each person !

Pushed us alll thru like a bunch of cattle !   Lots of us Vets are being Denied !

spider123
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374652_tn?1311302831
OMG, just the possibility of contracting HCV from the air guns is enough for me.  
The idea is to provide the best course of treatment for anyone with HCV.  I do believe the vets have a rougher road than most, and I believe there should be quality health care for all who need it.
Please lets fight for equal treatment.  Maybe the big wigs sitting in Washington will forego their health care until we all have health care.    HA  
May all beings be free from suffering.
peace,
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Avatar_m_tn
I have level 3 hep c and stage 4 psorhosis and I received the airgun injections. If you google- military airguns causes hepatitis c- You will come across a whole lot of information on this including a case won by a soldier for service connected disability.  I just talked to a va psychiatrist yesterday that confirmed all this for me. She told me to copy anything pertintent to this and copy it and highlight the parts you want the va to read and submit it to disability. I just lost everything I own on doctor bills cause the va didn't pick up the tab. I did keep my yearbook from bootcamp and I have 2 full pages of everyone standing in line with these airguns getting shots and there isn't even a rag on the table to wipe these guns off. So when the government starts doing the great sidestep and tell me to prove it I'm going to pull out this book.
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179355_tn?1207410851
As you can see by the number of post to your question, air gun inoculations is suspect in many cases but proving it to the VA is a dauntless task. HCVET.com may provide you some better insight. Something you also may consider is the intramuscular immune gamma globulins we received (the golf ball shot in the butt).  Check out some of my earlier post regarding the IGIM. Fortunately for me, the corpsman who administered my shot in 1995 annotated the lot number and the manufacturer in my health record.  Lo and behold, the lot number was one of over 280 lot numbers that were "urgently" withdrawn between 1994-1996 by the manufacturer for the possibility of contamination of Hepatitis C. The withdrawal included both intramuscular and intravenous products. Each lot contains about 17,000 vials. Drug companies were very sloppy throughout the 70's, 80's and 90's so alot of bad juju got through to the public.  Our public watchdogs were asleep in the doghouse most of the time. Teuf
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Just to give you an idea how asleep in the doghouse they were, in a memorandum from the Assistant Secretary of Defense to the Secretary's of the Army, Navy, and Air Force dated April 1995, it was directed to begin using the newly developed Hepatitis A vaccine (HAV) in lieu of the gamma globulin inoculation. One of the reasons was the principal manufacturer had recalled it's IG products from the market ( Centeon, formally Armour Pharmaceutical were the primary providers to the DOD).  Somehow, that info never got down to the Corpsman level because I got stuck in July 1995. Not even a Gomen nasai years later. There's alot of us out there. They just don't know it yet.  Teuf
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Kiss my *** Co. b 1/12 air cav & 229th assult helicopter gunner
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I'm not a vet, I'm an Air Force Brat. My dad worked in the hospital pharmacy on base so I got my shots and blood work at the hospital and believe me, those airmen that stabbed me over and over because they couldn't find the right spot were no where as gentle as nurses at schools. Actually all of my on base medical experiences were much rougher than the civilian ones.

Diane
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Yes I had them at Paris Island in 1970 . I am now in week 56 of treatment for Type1b post liver transplant in 2005 thru the VA. Hcv recurrence is common post transplant and does damage very quickly due to the immunosuppressive drugs taken to combat rejection. I am being treated through the VA who suggest that I do 96 weeks of treatment. I was undetected at week 6 ( 1st PCR) and remain so. Treatment is rough but end stage liver disease is far worse I know I have been there and don't want to go back!
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I recieved a blood transfusion at an Army hospital in the late 1970s, I also had a friend who was in the Army at the same time, who also feels his hep-c came from the airgun shots he recieved. This disease mirrors the Aids epedemic, I truely believe this will be worse, because most are asytematic, till years later. I had elevated liver functions for 30 years ,I finally got through to my primary care person to do further tests that resulted in fining my Hep-C.  Stalion
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It's not so much the Vet flinching but if the person giving the shot moves  then it is the same as the person recieving the shot flinching. I recieved my shot in Oct 1974 and there were about 200 of us in a little less than an hour. If the airgun is not held steady it will cut you and many men were cut that day. The problem is>>> IT IS BIOLOGICALLY PLAUSIBLE and if they are not used right they can and will  transmit whatever one person has to any others in line behind him or her. My shots were also at GLKS Ill Navy training center. Now  if so many people have only that in common and never injected drugs  or got commercial tattoos How the hell did so many of us get this?  I been told  by the VA that I got it from drinking  beer too much  and from smoking pot,  Niether of these activities afford the blood to dlood contact that the airguns did when used in the manner the military used them
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Little girls and boys don't flinch, service men and women do. Gotta love the internet, it probably saves a lot of trips to the emergency room.
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When you find someone who got Hep C, and to whom the VA pays benefits, please let me know.
And to the people who wrote about the school girl stuff and the blood flowing down the arm, the blood flowing means nothing.
What does matter, and I quote a Medic who gave the shots, is that " We never changed the tips on the guns until they were clogged with blood."  The injection shoots through the blood and carries it into the recipient. He got Hep C and has a rating for it and is getting benefits.
I have lost touch with him, but met him in the hospital after I got a liver transplant 7 years ago.
I was denied benefits from the VA.  40% of Nam-Era vets got Hep C whether they were in country or not.
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I have been beating my head trying to figure out how i became hcv+ 2 years ago when i gave plasma. a few weeks ago i thought about that airgun vaccination i recieved in Nov 90' at fort Jackson SC along with several hundred other intakes. I still have a 1/16" deep hole in my arm the size of a bb from it. I also remember the illness i endured about 10 weeks later in AIT in which my throat hurt so bad that I thought my tonsils needed to be removed...which is what happens about that time after you have been introduced to HCV. Now My wife has it when we checked her, my oldest daughter is ok but we need to check the younger 3. And as far as wiping the gun with a rag is proposterous...You cannot even see the HCV ....so even if you see no blood it does not mean it is not there. If someone used the same needle to shoot person after person after person is the same thing. Even with HCV being non-existant, they should have been smart enough to figure out that anything could be transmitted by people using the same injection, this was 1990 not 1790. i guess they figure that once you sign that paper you are expendable to whatever danger you incur withour recourse even if it is something that could have benn prevented like this....Syringes are what 1 penny or a half penny a piece at that quantity........Totally unacceptable when lives are at stake.
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I have been beating my head trying to figure out how i became hcv+ 2 years ago when i gave plasma. a few weeks ago i thought about that airgun vaccination i recieved in Nov 90' at fort Jackson SC along with several hundred other intakes. I still have a 1/16" deep hole in my arm the size of a bb from it. I also remember the illness i endured about 10 weeks later in AIT in which my throat hurt so bad that I thought my tonsils needed to be removed...which is what happens about that time after you have been introduced to HCV. Now My wife has it when we checked her, my oldest daughter is ok but we need to check the younger 3. And as far as wiping the gun with a rag is proposterous...You cannot even see the HCV ....so even if you see no blood it does not mean it is not there. If someone used the same needle to shoot person after person after person is the same thing. Even with HCV being non-existant, they should have been smart enough to figure out that anything could be transmitted by people using the same injection, this was 1990 not 1790. i guess they figure that once you sign that paper you are expendable to whatever danger you incur withour recourse even if it is something that could have benn prevented like this....Syringes are what 1 penny or a half penny a piece at that quantity........Totally unacceptable when lives are at stake.
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The guns are THE problem.  Flinching has nothing to do with it.  Leaking blood down the arm means nothing.  What matters is that the blood splashback in the cup gets shot into all the "lucky" saps behind the already infected soldier as he steps up.
End of story.
I got infected in '66 at Ft. Bliss.  I had a liver transplant in '06.  I'm doing fine as far as the transplant is concerned, but the meds are pretty hard on me.  I am a heavy truck mechanic and it's pretty wearing on this 63 year old with no chance of retirement.
The government didn't know about the problem much then, but they have done research and they know now, but it's cheaper not to admit it.  I have been refused a rating.
If anyone out there has Hep C and has a rating, please contact me as I am trying again to get a rating.
(Note seen the DAV office..."Greed is the VA coming back a second time to take from you anything they missed the first time.")
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It can be very tough to show the required nexus to establish service connection for you Vietnam Vets.  I retired from the Navy in 2003 and was diagnosed with HCV in 2007.  By that time I was already suffering symptoms of cirrhosis.  My Hepatologist wrote a letter to the VA saying that I could not possibly have contracted the disease and deteriorated that much in the 4 years since my retirement.  Because my record did not show any liver problems or hepatitis when I originally entered the service, I was granted service connection.  Oddly enough, in over 20 years of active duty service I never had a hepatitis test or a liver panel.  If you have any questions, send me a message.  My experience with the VA was that I was always able to achieve what I thought was a fair rating.  In my experience, the raters always want to award the sought after disability, but their rules (some of which are severely outdated) often restrict them if the proper service connection criteria cannot be met.  This gets very difficult if several decades have passed since the time on active duty. Send me a message if you want to discuss further.  Good Luck.
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The VA requires a clear etiology for the source of any claim.  If it's not in your health record, proving it can be a dauntless task. With that said, it's not impossible to convince to the VA that the jet guns were the reason.  There have been cases won in favor of claimants.  I submitted 84 pages of jet gun documents to the VA in support of my claim. On top of that, 16 more pages of an immune gamma globulin inoculation that I received in 1995 while on active duty ( annotated in my health record was the lot number, pharmaceutical company name and the date ).  While the IGG proved to be the smoking gun ( lot number was recalled by the pharmaceutical company for HCV contamination as was almost 300 other lot numbers), when my disability was awarded, they made no mention of either the jet gun or the inoculation but they did award me disability for HCV, for my thyroid being destroyed during my 48 week treatment, and the after effects of Interferon/Ribavirin.  In all, I ended up with a 100% disabled rating.   By the way, the IGG was standard fare for military personnel deploying to areas that may had been at risk for exotic diseases.  The DOD stopped using the IGG in 1995 because of the problems associated with the IGG.  Each lot contained around 17,000 vials, so for those vets that are looking for a connection, don't rule out the immune gamma globulins.  
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I looked into this a while back. I believe the answer was that some contagious illnesses were also transferred from patient to patient when those mass inoculations with the air injections were done.
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Hi

Has anyone experienced pain in the injection site for years later?

I was injected in '81. In 83-84 I started noticing a sensitive spot on my arm ,in that area, when touched or hit with a heavy stream in the shower.
A few years ago, I started getting brief, spontaneous and sharp pains from that same spot.
I don't think I have Hep, but I have CFS and other symptoms which have yet to be diagnosed.
Thanks
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My husband had this injection, but didn't experience long-term pain at the injection site. You should get tested for hepatitis C to be sure. This disease ofter causes no symptoms at all until the liver is seriously damaged.
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I entered  air force basic  in 12/77. I had the same air gun experience. I found out only 10 years ago that I had it for sure.  I had blood donation privileges cancelled by the red cross without specified reasons. They only recommended that I follow up with my doctor. I felt fine so I did not. I am yet well due to not being a drinker, smoker, or using recreational drugs. I am trying to get it service connected. Any suggestions?
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i was in the service in 1982 at fort dix we also had the air guns i was a virgin at the time  so sex was out i went to the hospital to give my brother blood 7 months after boot camp and they said i had hep B that my blood was not usable please email me if any one knows any more about this thank you           w,***@****
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I went in the army the end of 71.We all got the air gun injections and 90 plus % bled from the shot..I have hep c and end stage liver disease and am currently waiting on a liver transplant from Northwestern in Chicago..I am Genotype 1 and  therefore do not respond to treatment..They tried treatment but within 3 months I lost 100 lbs and some of my hearing and the $50,000 it cost..The VA would not treat me after I said it was caused by the airgun..It is not true that everyone will be ok if you catch it early and take treatments and change your lifestyle..Like stop doing drugs and or stop drinking..Of which I do neither..I contacted some of the guys I served with and a few had Hep C.....I read all kinds of articles and some from the VA..They knew these guns were defective..The "Process" of giving the shots and speeding it up was more important than we were..The draft was still on and every type of individual was in that line..I don't know about anyone else but that gun was used til it was dripping  with blood and they dipped it in a bucket and kept going..You hear it all, a tattoo,having sex,sniffing cocaine,shooting up etc,etc is how you got it..After most of us are dead then maybe the VA will help..
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Your post sadly points to the truth about many things.
I've wondered if this is why hep C is still the silent epidemic.
If the military were held responsible they'd be paying people bundles.

My husband tells the story of the airgun shots, one to the other, no cleaning in between and men walking out with blood dripping down their arms.

On a lighter note, let me tell you, I had a tp in 2009, and currently doing tx, was und @week 4 and am doing great.
I made it. You can too!!
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My partner was also one of the air injection crew, most likely where he got it from, not an IV drug user, he was only 17 when he went into the army and a pretty clean cut guy at the time.  My brother in-law and his 3 brothers all have hep C, all in the army, all had the air gun injections...seems like more then a coincidence to me.  It's a shame....
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There is a way now to determine if your virus and someone elses virus came from the same sourse. This would answer all the questions of when you may have received the virus. The goverment is unwilling to do this study because it may open a big can of worms for them, that should tell you something!!
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do you have a source for this information, this would be interesting if indeed it is true...
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Yes,I was in that line back in "1969"where they lined us up and gave our shots in both arms.Now I have three ways I could on been infected with hep c through the years.
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Hello ,
Name is mark.
I`ve been dealling with this illness for 30= years . DAV says the same thing VA does . " That was 30 years ago ." and you had to had it with in a year after you got out.  Well wasn`t before 91 they new what it was .
I was told it`s to late to refill .
after all that has happeneed to me and my family . I still blame the air guns . and yes I saw the same thing. lined up and shot with them and awhole company going through at the same time in recpetion at bsic .
I`ve been through the treatments 3 times . i`m done . did nt work . Now a PN at the VA wants me to do the new stuff . but I`m non ervice connected . and can`t afford all . I give up . ....
Mark
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all of those sites have are down, do you have anything else?
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This thread is 2 years old and bananarep may read, but I don't see him post often here.  There are other threads in this forum, probably in any HCV forum and you can either use this board search engine to look for threads at MH or "google" the topic.

http://www.hepatitis-central.com/hcv/vets/toc.html

http://hcvets.com/

http://hepatitisdoctor.com/veterans.htm

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Hepatitis-C/Military-Veterans/show/82241

Hope this helps,

Willy
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I didn't flinch and I bled on two seperate occasions once entering boot camp they lined us up like cattle and just kept going down the line I never once saw them wipe it off and the second time I was leaving to go over seas and it was just me but I still bled. 1980 us Army Ft leonard wood Mo. I have contact with 7 other individuals that contracted Hep c I am a 4 time non responder to the treatment 7 years I've been battling this disease so dont think you know everything!
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I was in the US Army from 1974 to 1976 and I vividly remember the lines of soldiers getting injected at Fort Ord CA in basic training. Some flinched, others bled because the guns weren't seated firmly on the skin and there was sometimes a drop or 2 of blood when everything worked right. I'm one of those that hate needles but I leaned into the air guns so I didn't get sliced.
I was diagnosed with Hep C in 2010. I always wondered why, no matter how hard I tried, I couldn't run or skate or ride or do any sport better than I could. I put in the effort but never got the return in investment. After 35 years I finally found out why. I was tested as a "Responder" in March 0f 2012 after 11 months of HELL doing the Pagasus and C-pegus treatment. The bad part is that the treatment destroyed my thyroid and I'm on levothyroxide for the rest of my life. The military will stonewall this just as they did Agent Orange.
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1 out of 11 people born between 1945 and 1965 have HCV, (FACT!)
It has eluded medical science for years how so many people who never used IV drugs, no transfusions, etc, myself included, have this virus. It has been proven conclusively that you can not contact it through sex. One new fact that has come to light recently and is now listed on the HCV ways to contact list is snorting drugs, using a straw or a bill to snort coke, speed, etc. The late 70's and 80's was a playground for recreational cocaine. Being that they did not have a confirmatory test for HCV until 1992, they did not know what it even was. It was originally called Non A, Non B.
One other thing that they are quietly looking into is the possibility of a protein or factor in baby food or formula at that time. The FDA did not regulate that industry at the time, and with what happened in China? I totally would believe it.
Who Knows, all I know is I have it and I'm going to beat it!
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"It has been proven conclusively that you can not contact it through sex.

One new fact that has come to light recently and is now listed on the HCV ways to contact list is snorting drugs, using a straw or a bill to snort coke, speed, etc."
=================================

I disagree with your first statement unless you provide some qualifiers, and even then I think it is an incorrect statement.

HCV CAN be spread through sex, but it is most often associated with rough, party, sex, anal, or where herpes sores are present or in the presence of using meth and viagra.  
Generally speaking, it is far, far less associated with monogamous heterosexual sex; closer to 1% or less, but...... it is probably even there a stretch to claim it *impossible* to transmit (heterosexually);      *uncommon* or rare is more like it.
-----------
I've seen intra-nasal transmission listed for 10 years, and don't know how long it has been attributed, but it is hardly new as a disease vector.

The VA had a flyer about 7 years ago which listed it as a nasal/ snorting as a possible cause, but no where was there anything about airgun injections on the little sheet handed out at a local VA.  For me it is a political coverup.  They would greatly prefer you look at any vector, other than medical/ military.

IMHO many more of us got this in a medical/military field than suspected, and you notice that the HCV transmission INFORMATION vectors are the same vectors that caused some of the infections.  It is not surprising that the information we receive may be skewed, just ever so slightly.

willy
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Can you please post a link to support your claims ?
I heard the one about snorting using a plastic straw, which tends to be more likely to cause bleeding, as a possible transmission years ago.

Please remember hep C transmitted blood to blood. This makes sexual transmission possible but rare.

I agree entirely with Willy50s statement about the military jet air gun transmission. The stories of rows of young men being innoculated one after the other, with blood dripping down their arms and the 'guns'  not even being cleaned inbetween are deplorable.

Your claims about China and infant formula sound panic driven. Where is the blood to blood contact ?  Breast feeding mothers with hep C rarely infect their babies. Yes, they must be careful of cracked nipples because, HEPC is transmitted BLOOD to BLOOD.

I'm glad you're going to beat it but please refrain from passing false information. Theres already enough mis-information and unwarranted fear about this virus.
People come to this forum looking for answers.
Please  stick to the facts.
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Links below!
The 1945 to 1965 fact is obtainable on the CBS website. It was telecast some time ago on the CBS evening news. The fact about snorting drugs with a straw or bill is now on all Hep-C literature and can be discussed with the Hep-C foundation, as well as the 1 in 11 fact. The membrane of skin inside your nose is the thinnest skin in/on your body. The baby formula, like most rumors, is that, a rumor, I just mentioned it because it has been stated that it is something they are looking at because of the 1945 to 1965 fact, and they can not figure how so many people born in those years have it.
Not causing a panic, just creating awareness. Just remember, until this became an epidemic, the powers to be kept it quiet and low key. I know I have had it for 30+ years. It was related to  intravenous drug use only for years, which is ludicrous
I wish you the best.
Keep on keeping on!

Here are the links and the facts, not false info:
http://www.hepmag.com/articles/universal_hcv_testing_2501_21438.shtml
http://sexandhepc.com/
http://addiction-dirkh.blogspot.com/2009/04/snorting-drugs-may-give-you-hepatitis-c.html
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I am confused.. You stated in your post above:

." It has been proven conclusively that you can not contact it through sex. "

You were asked to post a study or a peer-reviewed article by two members that backed up this statement..and you posted a link that say's this:

Nearly 20 years after the identification of the hepatitis C virus (HCV), there is still debate about the extent of sexual transmission of HCV. Because the pool of infected persons is very large (the World Health Organization estimates that 170 million people worldwide are infected with HCV) and sexual intercourse is common, even a low rate of sexual transmission can account for a large number of new cases."

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Thanks for the links.

"The baby formula, like most rumors, is that, a rumor, I just mentioned it because it has been stated that it is something they are looking at because of the 1945 to 1965 fact, and they can not figure how so many people born in those years have it.
Not causing a panic, just creating awareness. "

I'm sorry sweetie but spreading a rumor as ridiculous as the one about baby formula is more likely to cause panic then awareness. You didn't mention it was a rumor in the original post.
We have a lot of uninformed people come to this forum looking for information, dumb rumors, are the last thing they need to read.
Remember, it's spread blood to blood.

The reason in my opinion so many people of the baby boomer age have hcv is because of the airjet guns used during the Vietnam era. Those soldiers got it at boot camp, and came home and unknowingly spread it around.
If the military is responsible for spreading hep C, then there would be a huge reason to cover it up, and keep it quiet. Can you imagine the liability for having damaged so many lives from unclean practices ?
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I'm sorry sweetie ..
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never call me that... :0)
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I'm sorry sweetie ..
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Meant....:how come you never call me that: ??... </:0)
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"Here are the links and the facts, not false info:
---------------------------------------
Here is a quote from your source that you provided;

http://sexandhepc.com/

A prevalence of 3% concordance in relationships with an average duration of 10–15 years of exposure translates to a yearly risk of transmission of 0.2%–0.3%. Several prospective partner studies that used RNA sequencing to corroborate transmission reported incidence rates consistent with this estimate. The incidence rates in studies of monogamous heterosexual partners of persons chronically infected with HCV was 0 in 4 studies [12, 13, 14, 15] and 0.23% and 0.8%/year in 2 other studies [16, 17].
=============================

Just saying....... your source seems to indicate that indeed it can be sexually transmitted, and THEN they go on to say that this was probably the lowest transmission group, excluding higher risk groups.

It it possible you may not have interpreted/understood this correctly?   : )

willy




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Because I didn't think I had to add sugar when replying to you :)
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Sugar is always nice   :0)  
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Okay, sweetie pie, honey bunch. ; )
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Mark,
Free medicine is available through the Foundations, I know, I am on it. Contact Genentec for the Pegasus, and Ribaviron, 888.941.3331 and contact Incivek, (teleprevir), the latest additional drug, 855.837.8394. If you have any problems, I also worked with Kevin at Skymeds and he got the ball rolling and I owe it all to him for getting it through. 866.398.2148
Hope this works for you.
Good Luck and God Speed!
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Here are a few simple facts, test have proven that hep C&B are transmitted in 10 parts per million Blood and body fluid. The Munji device with or without you flinching transmits upwards of 40 parts per million (even with and acetone wipe).. As for those who would say that they received immunizations via MUNJI as children and did not become infected, well that is probably because your local health department actually followed safety protocols. The US Military though did not, recruits were immunized like cattle and often times there was no acetone wipe or alcohol swab. If you need scientific evidence please feel free to contact me and I'll be happy to provide it (From CDC; WHO and a few other organizations). I have hep C courtesy of Uncle crap for brains Sam, have under gone a liver transplant and now suffer from Kidney failure. Long term immunosuppression destroys your arteries, kidneys, heart, and thats just the beginning. I have been fighting the VA for 10 years and have found them to be a bunch of beaurocratic baffons (trying to be nice)
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I tend not to even talk about the military being the source of my HCV anymore as I know it is controversial, and I doubt we will know in our lifetimes. I do know that since being dx'd in 2003 doctors have gone from replies of adamant "no's" to "possibly" (from the newer/younger) doctors.

My husband went into the military in the late '60's, got his air injection, then severly wounded, hospitalized for months, several surgeries to take him apart and then put him back together. I move to the army base and "hepatitis" is rampant, he gets it so I get gamma globulin injections (made from blood products from donors) along with hundreds of other people on the base. On top of this, I am pregnant and doing my prenatal care at the hospital that has a ward with vets getting discharges due to liver damage, the ward in which my husband ends up for thirty days. I end up with it and so do people like my military dentist's wife? I'm in the hospital segregated for 30 days with other females in "isolation" with "hepatitis". Later I do another 10 day stay, same hospital.
Conditions in that hospital? Deplorable, I'm given bed pans with feces....who knows about the needles/protocol. When they want to do exploratory abdominal surgery on me (at 5 mos pg) the "Chief" steps in and tells me the hospital is operating in "triage mode" taking care of all the severely injured vets. I won't go into what I really had, but it was never dx'd by them, but partially by a non-medical civilian friend who came to visit me. I dodged the surgery bullet, but not full body xrays while pg (that's a whole other issue re my child).  

I have always wondered about the gamma globulin, the hep ward for the vets coming back from Nam, my 30+ blood draws and injections in that filthy understaffed place, new recruits who didn't even know how to take a temperature and record it properly. It was the height of the war, the hospital was overflowing with severely injured vets....my issues were small potatoes to say the least; the highly trained health professionals were not on my floor.

Back to civilian life. So what caused the epidemic of non-A or non-B hepatitis in those years? An epidemic of illegal drug users? Or something to do with what came out of Vietnam? IDK and no one will say, but it's always in the back of my mind.

If I didn't get HCV there, then I got it from blood-blood contact fixing boo-boos in the classroom as a teacher?....that's all I can figure.

They are all so damn sure it's mainly illegal IV drug users, but I'm with Orphanhawk on this one....they would never take responsibility (if there is one); the cost to the feds would be mind boggling.

My husband died in the early 90's before ever being dx'd with HCV, so I don't know if he had it, too. I would venture to say yes?  When my doctor tried to get my military medical records in 1983 for other issues, we could not; supposedly too "buried" in (I believe) St. Louis or somewhere?

So, that's my story and I'm sticking to it, lol. Make of it what you will.
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I think it is interesting that there was a thread on here recently where I got chewed out for saying it was irresponsible not to tell a partner one has HCV, some posters were personally offended by that. They said absolutely no way to get HCV through sex and it was not necessary to disclose.
What do you think; should one disclose or not? Would you want to know?
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WOW....Processing....But, WOW for sure....I am so sorry that you own this story....We all have one ..Thank you for sharing. WOW
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Ach, what a horrible experience.
I remember the vets coming home so ill. For many, it was a number of things, but I have heard that air gun story a number of times. My brother in law, his wife (my sister) and many of his friends turned out to have Hep. C. Some used drugs, many did not and few of that circle are still living, having died from cirrhosis and liver cancer. They all (w the exception of my sister) experienced the air gun.
It was hard for these guys to advocate for themselves to get the proper medical support they needed due to a host of other war related issues.
It is a great tragedy.
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I was only 14 -a depenent-when I got the air gun iinjections.  My father was at NSA and we went to England, but we had to get innoculations for everything. Kimbrough army hospital at fort Meade in Maryland.  Even though I know it isn't how hcv usually presents at first,I was sick as a dog for 6 weeks after that.   I lost a lot of weight, turned yellow and my palms itched so badly I wanted to scratch them off .  All I really remember about that time was tha my mother was very ashamed and I was told I would never be able to give blood. Know there's no chance that the military would ever take responsibility for that, but there are more than the "usual suspects" that were affected by this.  It's caused my life to take some pretty crazy turns, but somehow I've never been that angry about it, because I believe that they really didn't know any better back then.  Knowing what they do now, and refusing to take responsibility - that's a different story.
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I agree with you, "...but somehow I've never been that angry about it, because I believe that they really didn't know any better back then."  
As far as what they know now, I don't know what they know, but if it is something and they are "refusing to take responsibility" you are correct,  "- that's a different story."  
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From the stories of guys walking down that line getting the innoculations with blood dripping down their arms, there's no doubt in my mind, that hep C and perhaps other diseases as well, were spread that way.
Was it intentional ?
Not unless the military was doing something along the line of Jacob's Ladder.

Did the military  know Vets would die from cancer due to being sprayed with Agent Orange ?
Probably not, but nevertheless, I believe it's a big cover-up.

I also agree that hanging onto anger or bitterness about the past doesn't do anybody any good. It's not good for our health~ all we can do is go forward.

But I've often wondered if the military connection is part of why hep C is still viewed in such a negative light~ why it's still viewed as the 'druggie' disease.
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Avatar_f_tn
I do find it a maddening that they jumped on the "druggie disease" as you put it. I think it gave a stigma that they hoped would create/promote an atmosphere of silence.
I'd like to know the historical stats on illegal IV drug use, seems to me it was around a lot longer before the '70s. Billy Holiday in the 30's and Ray Charles in the 40's.
This business that there was an "explosion" in the 70's due to the availability of needles is suspect. Where did they get them back in the 30s and 40s? If they were hard to get I bet they really guarded them and everyone was sharing more than ever, probably washed them with soap and water,  but no HCV.
Still no explanation as to where the HVC came from. The timing is so tied into the Vietnam era and I believe the equipment used was always contaminated. They rinsed them out in blue water. The labs were all in the same hospital and used by everyone including those coming back from Vietnam. They draw their blood and then come down to the Ob/Gyn to see the pg moms....if they were in "triage mode" did they have time to sterilize that equipment? Were they still using glass instead of disposable plastic syringes? How did they clean them and did they clean them along with the air injectors. Did the new recruits come in with HVC and spread it to each other as they got air injected, or were the air injectors dirty coming out of the lab and giving it to those guys?  Lord only knows how they spread the virus.
The real sin is to use the negative excuse of the druggie disease to shame people to shut them up. The stigma was almost deliberately created to keep people quiet. Rather than say, "we don't know" they chose to make illegal drug use the number one reason and if you claimed no, you were given the liar look.
Why is it even today new teachers have to complete a workshop or learning module on line about how you can get it from helping kids who have puked, or cut themselves. Why are their gloves (legally mandated) to be in every classroom? But when you go and get dx'd you are told, no, you most like didn't get it in that way...it has to be IV use or a transfusion prior to 19-whatever. Which is it....why all the bs training if you are told it's basically nonsense to get it that way? A most likely "phoney" excuse on your part?
Given my story I don't know how they can overlook the guys sick with what they called the black hep coming back from Nam and the dirty hospital needle stories. Oh yeah, I was pregnant and shooting heroin?!? Forget all the other facts of what I was exposed to....they were made to sound meaningless (e.g., gamma globulin made from blood transfusions), living within a "hepatitis" epidemic on base and in the hospital. They gave me an antibody shot made from someone's blood to protect me during the epidemic, and lo and behold, I get it. Were they preventing it or passing it? I don't know, but I and hundreds of others ended up getting it anyhow.  I guess when they gave those guys their discharges and lifetime financial disabilities for their destroyed livers they didn't question there was something more serious than hep A?  Coming from where....middle America? And those guys died shortly after; there was no tx in the 70s and 80s so the disability money didn't end up amounting to much. They sent them home to die with decomposing livers.
Okay, I'm just venting....gotta put it back out of my mind like I usually do and just forget it.
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First husband joined Army 1973.  Diagnosed sometime during service with "hepatitis"-- that's all I know.  He died 8 yrs. post divorce, liver failure at age 42 in 1996.
Now 2nd husband, joined Army 1977.  Diagnosed w/ hep C last year.

Husband's friend, joined Army late 1970's.  Just completed hep C treatment.  Another friend, post-Vietnam service, undergoing treatment.

Former boyfriend's uncle-- Vietnam vet--- hep C.

That's a lot of service members w/ hep c in my little circle of people I know.

Yeah, I think there's a service-related connection....not a doubt in my mind.
Do I think "they" know?  I think they do now.  Did they know "then"?  I'm reserving judgement.

My brother joined Army 1977-- I'm on his case now to get tested for hep c.
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Avatar_m_tn
The army used air guns well into the 80s.  I was hit with it a couple of times in basic and yes I saw the blood running down the arms (just a little) and us in a long line getting it one after another.  Maybe that's where I got it.  Could have got it from a blood transfusion in '81.

Really to me these threads are a pointless waste of time in my opinion.  It doesn't change anything as to your current situation.  What are you going to do sue the military?  Move on and learn what you can do to help yourself now.
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Bill, sometimes people just need to vent.It's better to get it out then let these thoughts fester inside. I agree, we do need to focus on going forward but that doesn't, in my opinion, make these posts pointless

I do understand the anger and frustration of being falsely stigmatized.
HIV has come away from that image~when we ask why hasn't hep C, the military connection is what pops up in my mind.
If we understand why that is, perhaps we can change it.
If the military admitted it unintentionally infected servicemen, I'll bet the stigma would slip away.

Faith~ Not everyone who used drugs did so with IVs. There is accepted evidence of trans-nasal transmission, or in layman's terms, getting it from snorting drugs.
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Hi OP, maybe my rant erroneously implied that I personally thought it was only via IV when my wording was meant to reflect my anger with how the CDC continues in 2012 to foster the negative stigma with "their" words of "Anyone who has ever injected illegal drugs" still at the very top of their very short list for risks.

The brain fog is bad, but let me try to explain my real point. I think it ironic that the CDC now proposes "one time HCV testing for all baby-boomers" but on the same fact sheet still publishes the short list of risk factors specifically putting "illegal IV drug users" at the top. http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/docs/HCV-TestingFactSheetNoEmbargo508.pdf

Obviously if they recommend that ALL baby-boomers get tested, they know damn well EVERYONE is at risk regardless of anything on any list except an era. Why bother to even publish a list? The real "list" is obviously longer so if they are going to publish it they should include everything that makes them believe that everyone needs to be tested. Still no mention of trans-nasal transmission? Or no mention of the possibility of LEGAL injections in less than sufficient sterile conditions? Gamma globulin injections? Why don't they mention that like boomers, veterans are disproportionately affected by hepatitis C? List it all or list nothing.

They estimate 3.2M dx'd with HVC in the US, and another 3.2M or 9.6M undiagnosed? If they propose testing for ALL baby boomers they obviously don't have a clue as to the specific culprits (or aren't saying), but they still insist on fostering it as mainly "illegal" "IV" drug users. Why? Just to stigmatize people?

It's time to get rid of the list!  It's false, promotes the stigma, and prevents so many from being tested. For many with HCV, nothing on the CDC's short list applies to them, and the CDC now knows it!
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You're absolutely right, all baby boomers should be tested. In fact I think every adult should probably be tested at least once.

Yes, I knew you were probably aware of trans-nasal transmission. It's good to mention it for others who might read this thread.

It is frustrating that lists of means of transmission of hcv, always omitsair-jet gun innoculations.
To read more about  hcv and vets, check out this site:
www.hcvets.com
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Was in Navy basic training  Sept 1975, now thirty years later I find out at the VA Hospital I have Hepatitis C. I found out through the internet that there is an epidemic of Hepatitis C cases of miliitary veterans from the 1970's to the 1980's who had immunizations, shot with an Air Gun also know as the Air Jet Innoculator and the list goes on on which vaccinations they give each branch of service. I was injected by the Air Jet and it was'nt cleaned after each use. After recieving your flat top hair cut you were lined up and shot first by the Air Gun, then all the other vaccinations were given by needle. I believe I contacted Hepatitis C though the military has anyone else proved the same has happened to them. Like to hear back with coments, advice etc, thanks        Crusher 196
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Hi there I have been fighting the VA for over 5 years about this  Hep C  I know I got it from the air gun shoot in boot camp 1965  I'm going to win this fight come hell or hi water. I think we all should get together as a join fight with the VA so we can get what is do as .
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I agree however I didn't get it that way. Friends of mine have.

You are so right there should be huge class action lawsuit against the military like they did with agent orange.

Did you check out the hepcvets  site ?
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Avatar_m_tn
I would like to hear/read comments from the women who were in the military during the Viet Nam Era concerning this topic.

There was one comment on women being only 1.5% of the USA military population back then.  That should be stunning to anyone now serving, as today's environment is completely different...as are the burgeoning number of opportunities now available.

Women were also...segregated from the general military population back then.  Separate training bases.  Separate barracks on any base or post.

I suspect that their training unit populations were low density and therefore not subject to the hurry up nature of the mass immunizations conducted with the air gun injectors.

I was US Army during that period.  I also grew up as an Army Brat.  It would be very difficult for soldiers of today to relate to the military environment of that period of time.

Wasn't the Women's Army Corps disbanded in 1976?  No...The internet says Jimmy Carter signed a law in 1978 disbanding it.  It was Separate part of the US Army before that time.  Then there was the US Army Nurse Corps....

I did not flinch during the several air gun immunization sessions.  I was used to years of getting pretty bad inoculations due to having moved with my NCO Father all around the world.  

I want to make it clear to the naysayers out there, who cannot possibly imagine what a basic trainee went through prior to being run through one of those immunization lines, that despite the fear and abuse that was being heaped upon our shoulders before and during that time by the drill sergeants and their assistants, none of us flinched while we were being herded through these lines of personnel with the air guns.  There were two lines of these folks.  We trainees were ordered to move in a single column between them.  We ALL got multiple inoculations in BOTH ARMS virtually at the same time.  I DID NOT flinch.  I did have blood flowing down my arms.  What do you think is going to happen when you get a high pressure puncture in you?  There will be an opposite reaction by your body!  A blow out.  There wasn't that much blood, but it was there....on me and those before me in line.

BTW...we trainees were force-marched to that location for the immunizations; as we were everywhere else for training events during those 8 weeks of hell at Fort Polk, LA.  So...blood pressure was likely a bit higher than that of a person having already been at rest...say, at a desk in school.  

The comparison, by some of the clueless, is stunningly ludicrous.
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I find it amazing that you dd not? we get many vaccines at one time and I belive some of them were pretty big doses. I remember the blood running down many of he vets arms and almost everyone had some blood loss. we would go from one airgun to the next. Blood contaminents were known about, but the military did not seem to think we were at risk or did not care? it is intresting that 75% of all hep C cases, were or served in the military. what do you think about those odds?
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Avatar_m_tn
try prior service vets returning to service or joining another branch had several in basic and at varios duty stations
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Avatar_m_tn
try prior service vets returning to service or joining another branch had several in basic and at various duty stations
mostly because veterans were not vary popular at that time
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Because most of us school boys were pre occupied with being KILLED in Vietnam!!  A few went to collage or were married with kids so most of them did not flinch eather. And we were in boot camp with a 1 way ticket to hell on earth.  there was also about 6 shots in each arm . So exscuse me baby!! This was do to being vacsanated for all kinds of desieses such as yellow fever. Sorry for my tude but you hit me the wrong way
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Avatar_f_tn
My Brother was in the Army in 1968 station in Korea and got hooked on heroin he died from Hep C and Liver Cancer 3 years ago in March, at the age of 58, I also was in Boot Camp in SC in 1974 and had the guns, I also ended up having a blood transfusion in 1975, so who knows how I actually got it.  Interesting reading and seeing how many are actually effected, so sad.....
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Avatar_m_tn
I went through those lines in 1968 along with hundreds or thousands of other Marines that went through those lines in San Diego. I was tested before marriage, at that time you still had to take a blood test before marriage due to the rx factor. I had what they called Hepatitus (hepatitis) non A and non B.
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Not so sure of that accuracy of your comment, I dangled my arms like meat on a hook and still drew blood. I saw folks flinch and suffer tears. The school girl comment is for the birds. Just saying.
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Avatar_m_tn
I've had two friends from Vietnam era neither were drug users and both had Hep C and died from liver failure.
I was post Vietnam 1977 and in 1998 started experiencing psoriasis  dermatological and under the nails one doctor treated me for a nail fungous and the medication affected my liver. I found a dermatologist @ UT South Western in Dallas and as spoke of the fore mentioned details her eye brow raised. She told me she suspected Hep C and when I give her my history she said she highly suspected group air gun vaccinations in the military. I just got curious if anyone was talking about this on line, man it seems to be more than a theory with all the responses to this thread. Good luck to everyone.
  
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I am a woman and I went to bootcamp in Fort Jackson, SC, US Army, Vietnam Era, yes they used Air Guns on us. We all lined up and received who knows how many vaccines that day. Docs on both sides giving them. I must have been lucky because I don't recall much blood, so the docs were taking their time with us, probably because we were at the tail end of the war era, early '74.

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Avatar_m_tn
Certainly some truth in what you say, and as a paramedic I can attest that IVDUsers often lie to medical personnel... and not just out of fear of jail or the permanent record deal.. but detox/ other medical benefits/ other care disqualification... drug seekers aren't given narcs. But, if you were there in Basic Training in 1972, you would know. It was a real cattle-shoot operation. I had 3 blood trails on each deltoid. And when I stepped forward, they went off on the guy behind me in a second or two.. at best a wipe off sanitation of the guns contact surface..certainly not sterilization. Even then as an 18 y/o infantry recruit I knew it was all wrong. But people who 'just said no' to the Army back then were quart martialed. And the mil knows it was all wrong, that's why they DC'd the air guns... but sadly they knew all along but just didn't give a damn about the cattle.
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I just found out today I have a positive test for hepatitus (hepatitis) C
I got a swine flu shot in the army I was in from 74-77
and received a mandatory shot with a air gun
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I was in the army 74-77 we were given swine flu shot with air vacination,
I now have hepatitis C, I don't know how long I have had it.
Mary55
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Hi -  I'm not a vet.  I landed on this site via researching HepC+gun inoculation.  Am female born in Washington State in 1957.  Airgun inoculated in grade school.  Diagnosed with HepC in 1999.  These posts I've read are compelling.  I don't know how I got this... I wasn't an angel in the 80s.  May have been straw related.  Treatment is priority, but as a society, figuring out how this happened is also priority so we can attempt not to repeat the scenario thereby preventing future generations this type of tragedy.  If it were mainly illegal drug use as cause, why is there a definite age boundary tied to it?  Like born between 1947 and 1965 (or whatever the range)?  So, people that were born after 1965 and are IV or straw users aren't susceptible to this disease?  Why would that be?  It seems it isn't drug use that caused this for the boomers because illegal drug use is still rampant with the same amount of needle and straw sharing going on but users born after 1965 don't have to bother to get tested?  wtf?  There are some mysteriously deep holes in this line of logic.  Listing illegal drug use as the main cause of contracting HepC places a heavy burden of unnecessary depression on victims.  Most of use are so consumed with trying to find treatment for the disease we cannot even begin to address the mental consequences of living with this disease and the shame stygma that is instantly placed on us at the time of diagnosis or thereafter.  Let alone not having any energy to commit to this matter.  It's been all I can do these past years to work 40 hours a week, makes chronic fatigue syndrome look like a walk in the park.

Mistakes happen, we have to carry on.  I'm not a government basher, and am a government employee.  It's normal human instincts to want to know how and why things happen.  Questions don't take take away from the event and may shed light on the situation for all.

In Oct 2012 I began my third attempt at therapy after 2 previous failures (non-responsive), once in 1999 and once in 2006.  This time it's the Triple therapy through a Seattle hospital participating in a worldwide research study.  I've been negative since week 4 of the treatment.  Have 9 weeks to go.  Would be rare at this point not to remain virus free but no one can predict the future.  In 2006 my first biopsy showed level one liver scarring.  In 2012 second biopsy showed level 4 cirrhosis.  Pretty scary stuff.

Good luck to you all!  I feel your pain, fear and frustration.  Thank you to all the Vets for your service.  
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There is protocol  for such an event. For instance when blood is splats on the head of the device they are supposed to change the head. I've seen with my own eye’s  that they didn't have a change that fit and I witnessed a Col. order the man giving the shots to just wipe of the head and put it back on. I also witnessed where they had a ped-0-jet brake down and they resorted to using the same syringe’s  to every body left. They would briefly clean the syringe’s  in a clear solution and reload it for the next trainee. But the most alarming thing I recalled was in the reception station where they reused the finger stick device on several at a time. I’m certain these incidents where very wide spread and frequent. I strongly believe if  these events were to go public it would make a story as big as the Agent Orange story.
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I believe the military's culpability for this epidemic is why hep C is still the silent epidemic that it is.

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I asked the same questions once, why 1945 to 1965 and was told that the virus was discovered in 1940 and blood work was not tested for this until after 1990 or there about.

Maybe the govt doesn't want to freak people out so have started with this 1945 to 1965 as there are many more people who were not born during those years that have it.
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Avatar_m_tn
Thanks, Dee :)
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June 1976
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Yes my husband had the same shots.  The military quickly sweeps it under the rug, by everyone having to be on drugs and them not excepting responsibility.  We are hashing it out with them as they did think they had the cure:  Read the following
Yes, my husband has experienced many symptons due to interferon and ribavirin therapy and they continue even though he had to stop treatment in January of 2006 due to an allergic reaction to the drug.  He was completely blind for one year and since 2007 he now has vision in just the upper half of his eyes.  It destroyed the retina and the optic nerve is gray, due to a stroke behind the eyes.  Mind you he complained to the doctor in October of 2005 and they sent him to an optomotrist and his hep c doctor told him to continue with the treatment as the eyes would go back to normal after treatment was completed.  The treatment caused low vision, joint pain, tremors, lesions on his brain (like MS), memory and short term memory loss, autoimmune disorder, lupus and psoriasis, anxiety etc.
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Avatar_n_tn
if you spend 100 hours reading va rules- the va has a  let die policy if you have hep c
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The Veteran Affairs is the number one provider of Hepatitis C treatment.  Here is their presentation on hepatitis C at "hepatitis.va.gov"  

There is a lesson plan about Hepatitis C and treatment.  It would be very beneficial to you to read the lesson because there is some valuable information your going to need.   Things like what is a good hep c diet.  Also, reference to trials etc.   As with most healthcare..you have to be pro active and educate yourself.  Sure we can't know everything but knowing what to ask and asking can be the difference between life and death.  

DWBH

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Avatar_m_tn
I do not recall seeing as many women in the military like I do now? not a good analogy.
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DRAFTED INTO USMC 1968 DIAGNOSED IN 86 NON A NON B HEP. NO BENEFITS FROM VA DUE TO TYPE DISCHARGE NEVER USED IV DRUGS HAVE LEARNED TO LIVE WITH IT. GLAD I REFUSED SERVICE IN SE ASIA GOV. NEW WHAT IT WAS DOING GLAD TO STILL BE ALIVE MAYBE I SHOULD  HAVE GONE TO CANADA VETS ARE TREATED POORLY WE ARE NOT GUINEA PIGS  . WHERE DO WE TURN? THESE BUGS HAVE BEEN IN ME 45 YEARS.         BROOKLYN1948
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Avatar_n_tn
USMC 1961-1966.

If you weren't there. you don't know!

We received a round of booster shots every time we "mounted out'. That was at least 2 times a year. They consisted of 2 to 5 different vaccines, for example: Tetanus-diphtheria, Yellow Fever, Typhoid, Polio, Cholera or Plague shots. Occasionally we got Adenovirus shots too. I filled up 2 "shot cards" (military vaccination records) in 5 years.

The shots were originally given with needles which were supposedly sterilized and then reused. We passed through a gauntlet of Navy Corpsmen receiving injection in both arms.

I can remember getting 5 different injections at one time when they switched to the air guns. Most guys DIDN"T FLINCH!

It was the Navy Corpsman who were careless and didn't place the gun flat against your arm. It didn't hurt when properly done but if it wasn't centered and flat it stung like hell!.

They administered vaccinations to a whole company at a time - up to 300 MEN! They were always in a hurry to run us through the lines as fast as possible.  

I remember seeing blood spray several feet from guys arms and most of us had some blood running down our arms.

I've had abnormal liver function results ever since the 1960s. I was eventually diagnosed with Non A Non B Hepatitis. When the definitive test came out in 1992 I was told that I had Hep C and that I would probably need a liver transplant by the time I got to my 60s.

Two and a half years ago I was diagnosed with Stage 4 Diffuse Large B Cell Lymphoma which had spread throughout my chest and abdomen. I've been in remission for almost 2 years now.

There's is a strong link between Hep C and this kind of cancer. In addition to the Hep C, I was stationed at Camp Lejeune, NC on a number of occasions between overseas deployments.

There was ongoing drinking water contamination from 1953 to 1987. The Navy and Marine Corps did a massive coverup of the problem. Anyone who was stationed at Camp Lejeune for at least 30 days during those years and has experienced any of 15 ailments may be eligible for VA health benefits. The Lymphoma I had was one of them.

http://www.benefits.va.gov/COMPENSATION/claims-postservice-exposures-camp_leguene_water.asp

I'm already in the VA system from service connected health issues from the 1960s.

I'm now in the process of trying to get some coverage for Hep C meds. I take 5 different prescriptions related to my Hep C including Xifaxan which is used for treating hepatic encephalopathy. In December my co-payment for Xifaxan was around $66 a month. Now it's $447 a month!

On a positive note, there will be 4-5 new drug cocktails for the treatment of Hep C coming out this year. These are Interferon and Ribavirin free and have very few side effects. So far they seem to have a better than 85% cure rate. Only problem right now is the projected costs of over $150k for a 12 week regimen.

CJ

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Avatar_m_tn
Another thread
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Hepatitis-C/Military-Veterans/show/82241#post_9836938

FYI For claims  
If anyone is not are aware of this site  
http://www.hcvets.com/

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I talked with 2 of my buddies today about JetGun injections. They're both Nam Vets and had the same experiences I did with bleeding and blood splatter.

I got JetGunned probably 3-4 times in 5 years. I never recall seeing the guns or even the men's arms cleaned between usage. Same thing for needle injections.

"Because the jet injector breaks the barrier of the skin, there is a potential that biological material is transferred from one user to the next. Some infectious viruses such as hepatitis B (and C) can be transmitted by less than one millionth of a milliliter so makers of injectors need to ensure there is no cross-contamination between applications. The World Health Organization no longer recommends jet injectors for vaccination due to risks of disease transmission."

List of vaccines administered during the Vietnam era 1964-1973:

Cholera (whole cell), influenza (whole inactivated), measles (live), meningococcal A/C (polysaccharide), plague (whole cell),  poliovirus (live), smallpox (live), tetanus-diphtheria (toxoids), typhoid (whole cell, AKD
or H-P), typhus (whole cell), yellow fever (live)

CJ
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I was in the AF from 1971-1974.  I started going to the VA in 2011. they did some blood work and I came back positive for Hep C.  When I went to see the Liver specialist, it struck me as kind of strange when he said,  oh yea, you've had Hep C for 40 years.  40 years ago I was 23 and in the AF.  I think they know something and they're being hush, hush about it!
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I agree with you rocketguy. They don't want the ugly truth of how the military spread hep C to millions to become common knowledge.
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Avatar_m_tn
I was a flyer in the USAF and got mine in 89 / 90 Desert Storm from a Gamma Globulin (whole) shot (hep A&B protection) Prior to 1993 they didn't check for Hep C since it was only known as non A/B.
Lot of Vietnam era Vets got it through shots / some of the recreational things that were going on / riding in an open helo with someone that was wounded and had hep C could even spread it / the jet guns were notorious because they didn't clean the damn things from the blood and air would just keep pushing it in to others so one infected person could infect a bunch
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Avatar_n_tn
It seems that the Military and VA are doing the same thing with Hep C as they did with Agent Orange... Deny, deny, deny the connection but when the barrels of the smoking guns turn red, quietly start treating veterans.

They're now treating Hep C patients but primarily with Interferon plus Ribaviran and they just added Gilead's new Direct Acting Antiviral Sovaidi (the $1000 a tablet stuff).

By the end of the year or early 2015 they will stop blood letting/ leeches (nterferon and Ribaviran) and switch to DAAs (Direct Acting Antivirals).

I'm probably going to get back doored into a SC disability because of the Camp Lejeune, NC Drinking Water Contamination program.

http://benefits.va.gov/compensation/claims-postservice-exposures-camp_lejeune_water.asp

I was stationed at Camp Lejuene, NC for a total of 18 months on 4 different occasions between 1962 and 1966.

The Marine Corp knew about the contaminated water but did a cover up for years. The Navy stepped in and continued the coverup.

It's finally recognized by the VA and is in the same category as Agent Orange and Radiation Exposure.

They're still jacking applicants around though with a 92% denial rate for benefits. Currently you have to have one of 15 specific conditions.

I have two of them, Non-Hodgkin's Lymphoma and the other day I was diagnosed with probable bladder cancer.... 50 years after the exposure!  

I turned in my application for disability this week.

I have to say, the VA system is radically better than it was in the 60s and 70s. Thanks in part to our brethren from the conflicts in SW Asia.

CJ
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Trying to build a case...

Looking for folks who received immunization shots via hypodermic needles - not jet-guns.

I received over 40 immunizations in the Marines between 1961 and 1966. Most of the time the the corpsman reused the same needles and drug vials over and over again.

Does anyone else remember that?

CJ
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Avatar_m_tn
Only remember the air-injection guns

Was this site helpful for you? http://www.hcvets.com/
Did you get any help from any of the veterans organization for your application for disability?  Best of luck and with your most likely appeals.. Paper work has to be complete and detailed

i get medical treatment at the VA because of low income. Didn't have any service connected reasons.   Acquired HCV about 12 years after
GT2 F3/F4 and was lucky to start SOV/RBV 2 days ago.

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