Husband in denial - Hep C positive

[HepJourney]

Hello,

It has been awhile since I have posted.  My husband was dx with Hep C in October.  We went to see the GI doc and he said that looking at a copy of a CT scan or MRI of his abdomen that they took when he had kidney stones in November that his liver looked good.  They did some bloodtests to check for geno type and viral load etc and told him to check back after the first of the year to talk about treatment as the CDC recommends most undergo treatment.

I called once to get the results, but they never called me back, I just left them another message.

The problem is my husband was of course scared to death when he first found out.  He has always been a drinking man until he had a seizure in Sept and they said it was because of his drinking, so he quit....that was it.  They also found that his liver enzymes were elevated and eventually diagnosed Hep C.

So....now here we are in Feb and he acts like nothing has happened.  He has also started drinking again.  He knows I dont approve, so he is hiding it.  He gets a quart of beer on the way home and then gets rid of the bottle, I even have found cans in the trash and a bottle under the bed.  I can tell when hes been drinking and now it seems most times it makes him really tired and hot and he has to go lay down.  I ask what is wrong and he says he is just tired and wont look me in the eyes.  I have told him I wont buy beer for you, but I am not your Mother so I cant tell you no, it is your body, liver and brain.

I love him, but I dont know what to do.  I told him I thought it was okay to have a drink on special occasions like his birthday, new years ect, but to sip it, not down it.  I am trying not to judge him because I know it is a disease and an addiction and it is his way to cope with things, but I also know they wont treat him if he is drinking.  

Now he is also constantly bent over kind of sideways leaning to his left and says its his middle back that hurts, but he is just stiff.  It also seems to mean that he is suffering from brain fog.  We have been together 20 years and in the last year he just seems to be slower in conversation and often has a hard time just asking a simple question.  He forgets little things alot, but mostly he just seems kind of like an air-head.  Our boys dont know, they are 15 and 12, but they have commmented and joked about it and I can see sometimes they get frustrated with him.  He is also itching a lot and has the skin condition Granuloma Annulare which I read is associated with Hep C, he has had this since I knew him.

I just dont know what to do.  I constantly worry about getting Hep C from him, so sex is pretty much non-existent and that makes hubby mad.  He wont go out anywhere because he cant drink so that pretty much cuts me off because we live in a rural area, so now we have no social life, just when our boys were getting old enough to start enjoying things again.  Oh, and he doesnt want ANYONE to know that he has Hep C, so you guys are the only ones I can talk to.

I feel so bad because I find myself getting mad, and then I feel like......oh well, he is a grown man (just turned 45, got Hep C about 25 years ago) and he needs to deal with this, but I know he is scared.  He used to be so healthy, never sick and in great shape.  Now I watch him try to play frisbee with the boys and he runs very clumsy and looks stiff, where he used to be fast and agile.  Maybe its just age, but seems to be more noticable in the last year, that and the brain fog issue.

I guess I am not really asking any specific question, just needed to "talk" to someone, its so hard to carry this around and not be able to share.  We were already struggling relationship wise before all this happened, so now I have that guilt as well.  I want to stick by him and help him through this, I know it will be hard, but I know if we really try it can and will bring us closer, I mean we just celebrated (yeah right) 20 years on Feb 21st.  But I dont want to be the one to push him through everything, make all the appointments ect, is that wrong?  I think he needs to do this, so I havent said or done anything after the GI appt, so he could feel in control, but he has done nothing.  I am wrong, should I just take control of all his treatment, tell him when he will start etc...but then again, he is drinking...can you tell I am confused.

Thanks for letting me ramble, maybe I should have just put this in a personal journal instead of here.  Any advice...anyone?  I am hoping they will call me back with his geno type and such so at least I can know that.

Thanks all,

K-HepJourney

[Forseegood]

Welcome...I trained and worked as an alcohol-drug counselor back in the day, so I know a little something about this (not a lot) but I'm sure most people know a little something about this, as it is now more freely talked about in the culture at large.

As you probably know (cause it seems you're very informed) denial is a coping mechanism in dealing with fear. Denial can be somewhat annoying and just get in the way of dealing with troubles - or it can be a life threatening coping mechanism, as it seems to be with your hubby.

You seem to really "get it" when you say you don't want to *enable* your husband by doing all the ground work that HE NEEDS to be doing. As you probably know, the more you enable and alcoholic, the more likely that he will get lost in his alcohol induced "bubble" getting further and further away from taking care of his own adult business......acting more and more like a child, not dealing with things he needs to be dealing with.

Nothing puts an alcoholic into more immaturity and denial than alcohol *and* someone in his life who does everything for him, nags him to death and makes him feel even more guilty and ashamed (alcoholics are really big in feeling guilty and ashamed anyway, a big reason they drink to excess in the first place.)

You say you live in a rural area, but Al-anon is a pretty big program, and it's very good in helping people in your position, giving support to people dealing with ongoing alcoholism in their partners, children, friends, etc....if you can find a good meeting, by all means go.... it'll help you to cope with your situation in much more constructive way, and make you feel a whole lot better about your situation.

Failing that or as an add-on, you might go to a support group of some kind, even on the internet. I even think al-anon might have internet meetings, I don't know. But get with some people who are really schooled in dealing with these types of situations, not everybody is. You might get friends who will tell you "just hide his booze - beg, plead, etc...well meaning but not great advice....The Al-anon program have been helping people to deal with alcoholics since the 1930s...they know a lot of the ins and outs.

Since your husband has a disease that pretty much is accelerated greatly by over-drinking, you might have an even more complicated situation. If I were you, I'd get some really good pictures (I'm sure they are on the net) of people who are in End Stage Liver Disease, pictures of liver who are in this stage, scary scary stuff. Gather information on this too for him to read. If you can, maybe take him to a liver clinic (this sounds like a long shot, that he'll let you do this) and see how sick people can get with this disease and drinking heavily.

The denial makes people act strangely with no reason...they might tell you that they would never *think* of committing suicide, etc...but they'll secretly and routinely drink to get drunk while having a serious liver disease, pretty much the same thing, but maybe a little slower and much more unpleasant.

After you have informed him in as many ways you can, etc and you're pretty sure he's gotten the message...just get to some meetings and never give up hope, people can surprise you sometimes.

After leaving posts like this, I once in awhile get posts that indicate that I am a Kill-joy AA Nazi, etc...all I have to say about this is that I think it's fine that people drink...as long as it's moderately (and so what if people get a little tipsy once in awhile?) and they don't have diseases where the liver is compromised.

[Forseegood]

to say...with most alcoholics, and I'm no expert, but it sounds that your husband fits the bill...they need to just abstain from drinking altogether, as alcohol can set off a physical, chemical reaction in them where they can't *control* their drinking, any alcoholic would love to be able to control their drinking, just ask them.....

so drinking on a "special occasion" might not be an option for your husband...of course, I'm not the last authority on this, but it sure seems to me that this is the case from what you've posted....maybe he can get the help he needs from an AA Meeting or some other alternative...though AA has been around the longest and has the most success...a big reason the court system mandates it with people who get DUI....

[HepJourney]

Thanks so much for your response.  I guess I do know all this.  And I know how important support groups are.  I attended them for 5 years following my gastric bypass surgery for weightloss.  I guess I am in a bit of denial myself.  If I go to the meetings...it's REALLY Real...

I am angry too, because I feel like I am ready to go be with people, have fun, be involed and he just wants to hide or is always negative about everything. I am so mad that our lives are changed so much, and I know that that is not right and it doesnt help anything, but the fact is, I am mad.

We cant go out and do so many things, and yes I know there are so many things that dont involve alcohol, but as you said, if you dont have a disease its okay once in awhile.  I am also mad because now we cant just make love anymore (sorry if this is not appropriate) because its always there in my mind.  I feel so selfish but at the same time if he where actively trying to take care of it, I might not feel that way, because there would be a light at the end of the tunnel.

Sigh.....then again I am scared to death of how he is going to be during treatment, if he ever stops drinking long enough to get there.  We increased our insurance to include short term disability, so now we are paying for that and probably wont ever use it.

I dont think you are a killjoy, you are a realist and to the point and I appreciate that.  I wish my husband would be more like that instead of as the saying goes, "Ignoring the big white elephant in the middle of the room and no one is talking about it".  We both know its there, we step around it but just dont acknowledge it.

I am just so afraid this is all heading towards divorce and I truly didnt want that, but I dont think he will ever change....

Thanks again, I am still waiting for the Dr. to call and hopefully tell me more.  Then I can tell him this is where he is and he needs to do XYZ.

K

[sunspot]

Kill-joy AA Nazi? Hardly. K-hep-journey hubby has a problem and you laided it on the line. I had/have a drinking problem and I could not stop it on my own so I went into rehab. On my own, no pushing from others. It took awhile after rehab but I can say that life is better.

[Forseegood]

Well, we're just stepping into controversial subjects! lol...(good to keep a good sense of humor about these things, sometimes it's the only think that keeps you from insanity!)

But I'd wager that maybe a big reason you might not feel sexually attracted to him is because you guys have A LOT on the line here, and all the stress that that entails...his alcoholism and denial of it - at great risk to his own health, your kids, your way of life, etc etc....not just your fear of getting infected...this is very controversial but I will say that this seems to be a blood borne disease, with a blood to blood vector for infection...there are many, many couples who have this who still have sex......to make you feel better about the whole thing, have safe sex with protection. But I agree with you, who feels sexy and in the mood with all these ancillary problems?

And yeah, it's probably not the best thing to realize your mate is an alcoholic...but we have to also weigh many things in proportion as well...if you found out he had diabetes, would you hold that against him? probably not...this is a disease as well...you have a lot of things you have to look at here...even though you promised in your vows to stay with him through sickness and health, you do still have to protect yourself and your kids if you see that he is slowly killing himself and has no plans to give up alcohol...who needs their kids to be around that?

these are all questions you have to look at, cause only you know their scale and dimensions...I certainly don't...I just see things you've said on a message board so I sure don't have any authority, etc...over things YOU might have to do, or not do, etc...But like I said, at least there are al-anon and programs, support groups, counseling, out there, to help you on your journey with this, best of luck....

[Forseegood]

hey, how are you doing? hope all is well...

[Kalio1]

I feel for you, I am so sorry you are going through this.

I wholeheartedly agree with Forsee, you need support and AlAnon is there for you and incredibly effective. Setting HIS issues aside, you need and deserve some support. Years ago I had a friend in denial I was desperate to help as she had two small children that I felt were at extreme risk and AlAnon was a tremendous help to me, see if there is a meeting you can attend and go. I promise you it will help. There is only so much you can get from an online support group, though this one is great, in person support I feel is important for you if at all possible in dealing with this.
Personally, if I was in your shoes and my husband was in that place, I'd tell him I could not watch him kill himself, I'd demand he A.) see a Heptologist and B.) get help to stop alcohol or I'd leave and at the same time get myself some help in dealing with it. I would not and could not watch or be a part of watching him kill himself. But that is just me. That could wake him up to reality. Or not. But either way, you would be working within the emotional boundaries so you can survive and function facing such a horrific set of circumstances, your beloved very sick yet in denial has to have a dramatic impact on his ability to be your mate in all ways.
Please don't worry so much about catching it via sex. This is really not something you should fear so much. The chances are slim to none of catching it via sex unless you engage in risky behaviors that involve blood to blood contact. He feels like enough of a pariah as it is just having Hep C, if his partner is fearful of catching it that has to be very hard on him. How long were you together before you found out he had it? In a study that involved thousands of couples over a decade, not ONE person contracted Hep C from their Hep C positive partner, so put that fear aside if you can. There is a miniscule risk but certainly not enough to avoid intimacy. I think his denial and drinking covertly and all that monkey business puts a real damper on sex and intimacy all by itself regardless of Hep C. He is trying to deceive you by sneaking his drinking, making you into the "Mommy" which doesn't exactly make you feel close! Not to mention your worry over his handling ( or not handling) his disease.
Much of what you describe sounds like symptoms of active Hep C and a liver in major crisis. His drinking is clearly accelerating his condition.Unfortunately, he is at high risk for a health disaster. I would imagine he is scared out of his wits by this and the only solace he finds is in drinking but with showing signs of encephalopathy, ( the bran fog you describe)which is a condition that occurs in people with severe liver damage because too much ammonia is building up in their bloodstream and their livers just can't keep up anymore and this affects their brain functioning. His sweating and tiredness are all big red flags.You are correct that he must stop drinking NOW because the trajectory he is on is not pretty and they will not treat his Hep C you noted, if he is actively drinking. In fact some demand you are alcohol free at least 6 months. The situation is dire, which is why you are so upset. I would be too. Can you get him to see a Heptologist or has he seen one? Has he had a biopsy? He needs a biopsy as all Hep C patients who are "watching and waiting" do, I am suprised  his doctor didn't recommend one as all Hep C patients who aren't treating should have one so they know the condition of their liver, ultrasounds and MRI's are great, but a biopsy is the "gold standard" Do you know his platelet count? Is his spleen enlarged? There is also an emerging technology called Fibroscan that is an excellent evaluation tool, but it isn't available except in a few places, I am not sure if the trials are still ongoing, but it isn't on the market yet I don't think, but a few docs do have the machines. Where are you located? It is a noninvasive way of viewing the liver.
What stage and grade is his liver? These vital questions need answers, and fast.
   His viral load tells us nothing about his condition, nor do his enzymes other than to say they are elevated and something is wrong, they don't tell us his liver condition. You need to know just where he stands, and know his liver stage and grade.
  Sorry this is so long, I hope you can stay strong and you get the support you deserve in dealing with this.
Take care

[jmjm530]

Sounds like you may need professional help with your husband's drinking problem, especially in light of his Hepatitis C. I'm sure others have or will offer suggestions, because your husband obviously is having trouble stopping on his own.

Two other points from your post. First, it's very important you find out exactly how much liver damage your husband has, especially since he's not on treatment. Best way to do this is with a liver biopsy. You also want to get your own copy of his records, including all blood work, ultrasounds, etc, and generally educate yourselves as to what this is all about. I didn't see you mention "genotype" which is very important, because some genotypes (types of Hep C) are easier to treat than others.

Lastly, about the sex. No reason you have to make a difficult situation worse but not having sex with your husband for fear you will get HCV. Many married couples here and I can't think of one couple that has stopped having sex because of the Hep C. In fact, the CDC doesn't even recommend condoms for monagamous couples who don't engage in high-risk sexual practices like anal sex -- although condoms are always a personal choice.  In short, it's very uncommon for Hep C to be transmitted sexually, so why add more of a burden on your relationship than is necessary.

All the best,

-- Jim

[jdwithhcv]

You asked for advice so I will give you my best counsel.  Take your children and leave.  Run like hell.  Save yourselves.  You cannot help an alcoholic who will not be helped but you can help yourself and your children.  Maybe if he has to face the consequences of drinking your husband will get help, maybe not.  Either way, you need to protect yourself and your children.

Thats the best advice I have for you.  Good luck, you will be in my thoughts.

jd

[HepJourney]

Wow, I guess I just didnt want to admit that this really is a serious problem.  I cant imagine telling him I am going to leave yet, I guess I should demand he quit drinking, but then he will know I have been checking on him, but only because I suspected it.  What really scares me is that he will have another seizure while driving.  He had one back in
Sept that they said was due to his drinking.  They suspended is license until he was seizure free for 3 months and he was, still is.  I just really dont want to have to confront him about the drinking and hiding it because then he hangs is head and says hes sorry, yadda yadda and I feel like I am scolding another child..

And I know the incidence or transmission is low via sex.  We have been together for 20 years and he just found out in Oct this last year.  He had gotten Hep back in the mid 80's, but he was a single guy and it "went away" so no big deal.  Like Forsee said, I think it has as much to do with all the other life issues we are dealing with.

We dont know his geno type.  He had the test done back in Nov or Dec but they have never called us back.  Good Ole' Cigna.  I called and I just called again, I think they will only give info to him and he wont call....  We did see a GI dr that specializes in Hep C and he ordererd all the geno type, viral load, liver tests, ect and said that we should come back after the first of the year and schedule a biopsy and talk about treatment etc.

I have been getting copies of all his tests.  In Oct his Platelet count was 261 and in Nov it was 228.  RBC count in Oct was 4.6 Nov  4.3  ALT in Oct was 72, Nov 101 AST Oct, 47, Nov 58.  Viral Load (I know, doesnt mean much was 2.8 mil.

They did say that one side of his heart was slightly enlarged, but said that can be because he was very athletic when he was younger.  So of course he dismissed that as a problem, just like he did when the GI Dr. said the scans showed his liver didnt look enlarged, I dont know about his spleen.

Maybe I am overreacting, but it seems to me that he has some pretty serious symptoms, but the docs are reassuring him, its not that bad.  But to me, he has always been healthy no problems, just turned 45 6'2" 200 lbs, works out, goes to work everyday.... and in the last 6 months has had a  full seizure (was in the hospital for 3 days), diagnosed with Hep C, borderline High bloodpresure is 147/83 high? Kidney Stones, back aches, severe itching, mood swings and forgetfullness...but maybe I am the one overreacting.


Thanks again for the support.  I guess I just have to figure out how I am going to bring this up.  Maybe I will just tell him the Dr. called and have him call them....talk about passive....LOL

Thanks all, really helps to just talk this out.

K

[HepJourney]

I guess you are right, but I havent really confronted him yet, so making such a drastic move seems unfair.  I know, probably denial.  

so much involved, as there always is.  Its not that easy. He has always provided for us and never ever been violent or missed work because of alcohol.  Regardless I know it has affected our lives and the kids, but I guess I have to give him the ultimatum first before I can just get up and leave.

K

[Trish77]

You're not overreacting.  He's headed for a stage where he'll be beyond treatment.  I believe once it hits cirrhosis, then you are beyond treatment for HCV.  Then he'll need a liver transplant.  And there's no saying he'll actually get one in time if that's where he ends up.  And if he DOES get the liver transplant, he'll still have his HCV to deal with. That's his reality.  AND yours.  AND your kids.  You can decide whether you get tough with him now or get tough with him later.  Maybe you want to think about what you do if you lay it on the line and he doesn't stop.  Because when you lay it on the line ... you have to be ready to follow through.  This is not just his life he's playing with.  It's yours and it's your kids' lives.  How would he feel if the shoe was on the other foot and YOU were headed for a liver transplant and you did nothing to stop it when you could have?  

This is hard to deal with .. but better to deal with just the HCV rather than liver transplant AND the HCV.

I would say get your information together so that the questions in HIS head that are unanswered, you can help him with.  He has either 48 weeks or 26 weeks of treatment ahead of him.  That's a small price to pay to be spending the rest of his life with those boys.  I sure hope he sees it that way.

Very tough situation you find yourself in.  I wish you wisdom and courage in dealing with this.  

Trish

[HepJourney]

Thanks, I sure need it.  I guess I am just in shock at the responses I am getting about him and his drinking.  I am do plan to tell him he has to continue on and get the biopsy ect, we have to know.  And, he has to stop drinking....period.  I guess I just thought that it wasnt that serious yet....He has only tried to quit once, do I lay it on the line hard and fast now....is that being fair, how many chances do I give him...

Wow, I am in shock right now, Do you really think I need to tell him quit now or leave?

Sure wish my parents were alive.....would love to have my Mom's advice right now....but thats a whole other story...

K

[Forseegood]

hmmm....yeah, docs are known to downplay things when maybe they shouldn't, docs are all different just like we patients are...I don't see how the docs can assure him it's not that bad - when you guys don't even know his viral load or grade/stage of fibrosis yet? They can't know until these things are done...the labs can give you indications, but not hard fast info...

And yes, you do seem to be in some denial yourself, who wouldn't be? lol...you have to make some hard decisions and face up to these life changing problems...most of us deny or put off confrontation - as a way to cope with these things...I sure have!!!!! But it's the human condition, sometimes we get flowers and moonbeams and lollipops...sometimes we get a stopped-up toilet...and no stopped-up toilet ever got better by avoiding it...lol....

Just know that *most* alcoholics, the vast majority of the time, do not get sober for someone or something else...it's usually an inside job...if you get sober for some other reason, it usually doesn't stick...now, if he sees that his life and family are going to go out the door, well then, maybe he'll come to the conclusion that HIS OWN LIFE is going down the toilet, and that might inspire him to do something about his significant problems..... I imagine you got to be hitting it pretty hard if you're getting seizures from drinking....

But yeah, his situation is pretty bad, so is yours because of it...I just imagine you need help at this trying time for you and your kids and on ways to proceed (though Al-anon never directly tells anyone how they should proceed in life or what to do.... it's not about that, they are not therapists...you go there and see examples, life stories, support and helping hands...and come to terms with things on your own ideally).

And let's be real, he can go into as much denial as he wants, but if he really thinks that he's fooling anybody, he's really mixed up...he knows you know...you know he knows you know...so best air things out in a calm and constructive manner, without a lot of drama and accusations if you can avoid it.... lovingly put, most people won't go into a lot of defensive and angry positions...and really, get some help for yourself, even if he doesn't...you're going to need it, for the sake of yourself and your children...

Like I said, sometimes people or situations might surprise you for the better...and then again, and I hate to say this, not all alcoholics get the gift of sobriety, would be great if they all did...another fact of life...

You can get through this and come out the other side, just give yourself a chance and be strong....there are people here coping with untold sadness because their loved ones are very sick, etc...and they just keep plugging along with as much strength as they can muster, what else can you do? It's life.

[HepJourney]

I know, you know how it is....This is the life we had planned.....but,  it is, what it is and many have been through worse.  Its so hard because before the seizure and Hep C his drinking was a non-issue.  I see now what I thought was a few beers a night was actually a 40 ounce King Cobra on the way home and then probably more like 4 or 5 beers per night.  I think has gotten worse over the last 6 years.  I had gastric bypass surgery have lost and kept of 210 pounds, I really think he started turning more to alcohol during that time due to his own insecurities with my changes.  There is always so much more to the picture.

Its hard too because we were dealing with the normal 20 year relationship mid-life crisis **** LOL too, me and him :)  My parents divorces so of course I said I never would....So many things, I am sure it usually is.

We do know that his viral load was 2,810,000 when he had it done in Oct, dont know what the latest results were.  Called earlier today and still no return call....waiting to hear genotype and all the updated numbers and acronyms.

I am definetly going to find some support for myself.  I work from home, so that also isolates me and I need to get out and get some real input on my situation.

Thanks again....I hope someday I can offer support to others..

[Trish77]

HepJourney:  Wow, I am in shock right now, Do you really think I need to tell him quit now or leave?
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Whoa.  I never said tell him to quit now or leave.  I said to think about what you will do if he refuses to address this .. and really mean it.  And when you bring it up, be prepared to follow through.  Whether you leave or stay is entirely up to you.  I'm not telling you to leave.  You're saying that you don't have much of a life because of this and maybe what it means is that if he's going to live in such a way that limits your happiness then maybe you start living in spite of him.  I don't know.    What I AM suggesting is that you deal with it head on.  The boys are laughing about it.  How will they feel when they realize later on that they were laughing at their dad's behaviour when it was because he was really sick?  

Really...I'm not suggesting that you play harda$$ ultimatum.  I've never had to deal with someone with a drinking problem and I'm going to leave that to other people who have more experience and knowledge with that.  I'm just saying.. HOWEVER you choose to deal with this....you don't really have much time to waste, do you.  And frankly, I'd approach him with how much you want to have a life with him and what this is doing to you and the kids...and how much you'll stand by him through his treatment.. and that you can all do this together...but allowing him to slowly kill himself is NOT what you signed on for here.   And if the kids had a choice ?  What would they want him to do?  And how will they feel when and if they find out he could have done something about this.. and didn't?  

No.  Not suggesting you leave him.  You'll know yourself when THAT is what you need to do.  I simply think you need to confront him about his health and then see how he responds to that.  

So very much rooting for you.

Trish

[comeagain]

Everyone is a sinner, we all have a sinfull nature to struggle with.  I sincerely hope that you will find the strengt and power to live "your" life to the fullest.
As a mother, woman, wife but abowe all as a unik human being.

[dointime]

You've received great advice from others here.  I'd just like to say that I can relate to the fear - terror actually - that you both must be going through.  I was diagnosed just over a year ago and if I could have run away from HCV I would have, but being as it was inside me that wasn't an option.  It still overwhelms me sometimes.

I don't know if you can force anybody to face the reality of HCV before they are ready to come out of the denial, it's just too scary, so I don't know how successful that would be if you tried.  Plus, with brain fog it is very hard to focus on anything, so that would make it difficult for your husband to get a grip mentally on taking steps to help himself.  I agree with what the others have advised, I just think it might be difficult to put into action and maybe you need to set your expectations accordingly.  

As for unprotected sex, quite honestly there's no way that I could do that with somebody who I knew had HCV - and I've got it!  I know all the arguments about the low risk but I couldn't.  If you feel scared to do it or it turns you off then don't.  Speaking for myself, I can't think of a bigger passion killer.

I think you've got real guts to have stuck around when you could have walked away.  I wish that you get through this difficult time ok,

dointime        

[HepJourney]

Thanks, I know you didnt say to leave, that was in response to jdwithhcv.

Lots to thank about but I am so thankful for such a great response from all of you.  Unfortunatly we just got back from the store and as I am checking out he puts one of the tall boy cans of beer on the counter "for later" he says.  I guess I will have a talk with him later.

  



,

[HepJourney]

Thank you so much, I appreciate your view.  I am trying very hard to stick through this and if he at least starts making an effort then it would make things so much easier.

And you are right....definetly a passion killer.

K

[Forseegood]

this as as huge of a problem as I guess some people do...maybe it's because I have belonged to a number of hep c support groups and there were many couples there, most for many years...and there was one person who had in the couple, and the other not...many, many couples like that...and right here on this board and many others, I've heard of one person having it - and the other not...

unless that person experimented with drugs in their life, had transfusions, were in high risk professions, (nurses) etc....the studies on this don't bear this out either...I contacted almost everyone I've ever slept with (no mean feat, lol) and not one of them had this either, once they got tested...I've talked to plenty of people who did the same thing, contacted most of their partners, etc...and the same thing happened to them...if it was so easy to catch this sexually, how could all this be? notwithstanding those studies NYgirl mentioned, that I have seen too....as long as you take precaution, I just don't see this as being a problem, I realize others disagree, this is just my opinion...

I'd look much more at exchange of blood procedures, etc...stuff like that...

[Forseegood]

notwithstanding, I meant considering those studies, that point to the fact this isn't sexually transmitted for the most part, unless there is rough sex that draws blood, anal, etc...thousands of people in couples where one has this, and the other not....

[dlr2007]

I can relate to what you're going through on a few levels. And I know how scary and maddening and difficult it is. I've struggled with my own substance abuse problems and they've brought me much pain, but I have to say the worst I've been through was watching someone I love losing the battle with addiction. Addiction is the same as alcoholism- just a different poison.
  Yo're making very good decisions, not enabling your husband or playing a "mommy" role. I've made the mistake of doing both and it doesn't work. I think you've gotten excellent advice here too. It certainly won't hurt to be informed on what's happening to your husband physically and mentally- that way you can give him the facts. Of course only you can know just how to do this- in a tough manner or as more of a heart-to-heart talk.The most difficult thing to accept is that no matter how you approach him, he has to be at a point where he is ready to save himself- or it just won't touch him. I've agonized for days over just how to "help" the father of my kids, like if I could just say or do the right thing, he would see the light and run for recovery. I finally realised that it had to come from within him, and separated myself from the sitaution. His story did not have a happy ending, but your husbands may. Only a biopsy will tell what stage his liver really is. I can see that the doctors may be going by his platelets and ALT's, which are really not bad, and telling him it's not very serious, but they're not helping him by that. I understand how frustrating it can be, to want a doctor to help your husband take his health seriously, and instead have them give him a comforting assurance that it's OK to relax and "give it some time". My husband's platelets and albumin have been dropping by the year (we both have Hep C) and now he has diabetes too, and his doctors are just patting him on the back, saying "no rush". One even said "Well, you're a pretty young guy- might you run out of rope eventually? Sure!" In other words, might his liver fail before his natural lifespan is up? Sure- no big deal! It really made me angry. I know it's an all-consuming worry and it's awful to feel helpless. Bu we can only do so much. I hope that your hubby will realise that he needs to stop drinking and save his own life before it's too late. Maybe the biopsy will kick him into reality. You can try to get him to see what is happening, that it's no joke, but remember that ultimately, he is responsible for his own life, and you are for yours. It may sound ridiculous, but remember that you can love your husband and be gravely concerned about him, but still try to do something enjoyable by yourself or with your boys, and get your mind off of your troubles. You have worked hard to take control over your destiny- having gastric bypass surgery must have taken major courage- and you deserve to have your peace and happiness. I know it's easier said than done, but try to take one little piece of your life back for yourself, so you can look forward to something and count on it despite all this going on with your husband. No matter what, you must stay strong for yourself and your kids. One way or another, it will be OK.
Best wishes and prayers,
Dee

[HepJourney]

Thanks again, I have not other risk factors other than being with my husband.  I have not been tested, but I do donate blood several times a year (O-, they like me) and I also have yearly blood tests where they check everything because of my gastric bypass.  I have my yearly test coming up again and I have asked them to include it, mostly so I can cross it off the list of things to think about.

I did just tell him that he has to eventually quit drinking and that they will not treat him if he is drinking.  I told him that if he was not going to go through treatment he at least had to go and get the biopsy so he would know where he is at and for follow up.

I know I wasnt very harsh, but at least I said something.  I also gave him his folder and told him he had to call the Dr. because I have called twice and they have not called me back.  He said he would call them.

K

[working dog]

you lost 210 pounds!!! wow...makes me wonder how much he weighs..cuz if he's way over weight that could be a real bad problem...exercise can help a lot...it makes you feel a lot better about yourself...get that heart rate up to about 120 for at least 20 minutes a day... if he's way over weight i would see a trainer so he doesn't have a heart attack... could be a real good first step...so he feels good about himself...it's tough to stay together for more then 20 years ...and durring mid life stuff..on top of that drinking...the 40s are so hard for lots of couples....if he keeps drinking with hep c he'll be in real bad shape soon..someone here said the withdrawals are 6 times worse then folks without hep...i know my withdrawals were real bad..and the symptoms can last for many months......so he should get help cuz the withdrawals could kill him...good luck...billy

[HepJourney]

Thanks, yes I lost 210 pounds and I am also a personal trainer.  My hubby is not overweight, never has been 6"-2" 200 lbs and he does work out pretty regular, mostly cardio but he also has a pretty physical job.  I know thats one of the reasons this is so hard for him.  He gets tired so easy and falls asleep by 8:30.   But luckily he is in pretty good shape as far as weight.  We live in a pretty rural area, but we have our own exercise equipement and he is better about using than I am.

Yep, 20 years is tough, but I think its worth it, we just have a lot of stuff to deal with and he is a very quiet man, says 2 words to my 1000 LOL.

Thanks
K

[Trish77]

Terrific!!!  You don't have to be harsh.  Sounds like what you did was just right.  He said he would call them!  He might put it off..he might not...but that's a start.  Maybe you want to tell him how happy that made you for him to say he would call them. Positive reinforcement.  And telling him to at least get a biopsy.  That was a good thing to suggest.  A step at a time.  I think what you did was great.  Sometimes the velvet glove approach works better than a hammer and I'm glad for these little steps forward.  I hope for all of you that this continues.

Trish

[HepJourney]

Dee,

Thank you so much for all your input.  You seem to understand much of what I am dealing with.

One day at a time....that is for sure.

K

[HepJourney]

Thanks, I just couldnt see being so hard so quick, later if I need to then I will know I have tried every approach.

He really is a good man.  He has stuck with me through thick and thin.  Never once did he ever say anything when I gain so much weight.  I was never thin, but when you hit the 365 pound mark....well, he still loved me, or at least put up with me.

I dont know where we will end up because this isnt our only issue.  But I want to help him get healthy physically, then we can work on the marriage problems in other areas.

I have decided that I am going to start going out though, I need to go have some fun without him.  I havent been out in sooooo long, Im talking 10 years or more.  I know I will feel guilty, but I need to have some fun too.

Thanks so much to all of you!

K

[HepJourney]

Thank you again, everyone here gave me a little of what I needed.  I know what I need and how we proceed is somewhere in the middle of all this great advice.

I will keep you posted as I plan to keep pushing him forward to take care of himself.  I know that once he sees he can do this, it will give him a sense of control over this thing that right now is controling him and our family.

Thanks to all,

K

[nygirl7]

I've been hesitant to add anything because as you will see your post hits very close to home for me.

The man I married was diagnosed before I met him in about 1986 with hep non-a non-b which is now called hep c.  He continued to drink and party like crazy and got into all sorts of trouble. I finally left him in 1995 but we never divorced. I knew if we did it would push him over the edge. He never treated his hep.

I was diagnosed 3 years ago and did 72 weeks - one year later I am SVR.

This past summer when I refused to let him move back in with me and told him it was indeed time to proceed and get divorced he got very drunk that night and hung himself on my front porch. I didn't know until the police woke me up in the morning. He's hung himself with an extension cord and was hanging there all night into the daylight when someone saw him.  I thought he went into the guest room and went to sleep.  I can only thank God my kids (almost 17 & 19) weren't home and did not see what I unfortunately saw.

He never treated his diseases - either of them. Oh he went in and out of rehab constantly but never could curb his desires. In the end they got him. I don't believe he had much of a liver left at that time and his back ALWAYS hurt him so he'd take pills and dope and drink on top. As you can imagine not having much liver function at all the booze really just made him crazy, his liver couldn't process it the way a healthy persons might I suppose.

You are left with few options.  Either he gets help or most likely he'll end up dead one way or the other.  As his liver continues to decompensate from the tremendous attack it is under he will get worse and worse. You and your children will be there dealing with it.  Do you know the expression wet brain? That's permanent brain fog. If he's not treating he doesn't have 'brain fog' we get that from the meds...it's a different thing really.

You have to take a serious look at how much of this you want your children exposed to. Dad dead on a porch or dad dead or in transplant - the way he's going right now there aren't any other forseeable futures. Take it from me, I prayed, I begged I did everything I could but nothing worked.

If he won't see what the alcohol is doing to his liver and brain - prepare for the worst.  It's sounds harsh but it's an obvious outcome.

I'm hoping that you get help for yourself and your children from Alanon and Alateen and do what you can for yourselves.  You can try to change him but if he does not want to...he just won't.

God bless you. I pray that somehow he sees how serious this is and does something about it.  It IS that serious.

Good luck.

[HepJourney]

Thank you for sharing your very personal and tragic experience.  I have talked to my husband and we will see what happens.  He does plan to get the biopsy and says he will call the Dr's.  I also did mention AA to him and he didnt say no.

We are just starting this journey so we know we have a lot to prepare for.  My kids do know that their Dad has some problems, we did not hide that from them and I have talked to them about his drinking.  I will do what has to be done if needed.

Thanks again and take care,
K

[Forseegood]

wow...all I can say, what doesn't kill us....you know the rest, and youre one of the strongest people I know, I can't even imagine what that must of been like...and of course youre right when you talk about "wet alcohol brain" Ive had to deal with that more than once dealing with my younger sister....Al-anon saved my bacon with her, and a prior boyfriend....

I hope Hepcjouney realizes that we aren't just talking about these issues cause we know them in the abstract, I'm sure most everyone on this thread has been there, and knows this this is like, to varying degrees...it's terrible what demons some people have to contend with just inside themselves, and like was said, not everyone does get the gift of sobriety, but fortunately some do, thank God....

so sorry that you have been through this, but the upshot is that you can share your hope and experience with someone else here, on the chance that they benefit from your experiences...if you were here I'd give you a hug! thanks so much for talking about this...

[Forseegood]

qualifier...I don't mean to suggest that everyone is an alcoholic, when I said the gift of sobriety, I meant for *alcoholics*....I am fully aware that many people are just casual or social drinkers, and are not alcoholics...I find that if I don't qualify my statements sometimes I end up offending people...

[nygirl7]

you nut we know what you meant.....but you are right about qualifying the statement I betcha somebody would have ended up yelling like crazy!  :)

i would agree though honestly as a group...we do tend to know more than the average bear, a lot of us either are addicts or ex-users and it is so rare to get that "gift".

[Forseegood]

what are you talking about???? anybody the least bit "touchy" here???? naaaaaaah:)

[HepJourney]

Forsee,

One thing is clear is that each person/couples journey is uniquely their own.  We can all share and offer support, but we much each make our own way through this.  I do know that I can and will handle this.  I may not like it or would have chosen it, but it is destined to be part of who I am.  But that doesnt mean that I have to let things just happen.  I know I have a say in this whole process and believe me, I will have it.

I dont intend to do everything for my husband, but I have told him I will be at every appointment and support him as best I can.

What is great about all these posts is that it highlights the diversity and shows the progession of the situation if I dont do anything.  

I so appreciate evereyone share such personal and painful experiences and I have learned something and gained a new sense of urgency to push him forward into recovery, not only from Hep C, and alcohol, but in recovering the life we once had, we a deeper sense of each other.  That is what I hope for, but I am also aware of the reality as well.

Thanks so much all,

K

[glucklich]

I read your plight with great compassion. I topld my boss about this and his comment was one simple: the likelihood that there is only a bottle of beer ( qt or not) is about 0.

[nygirl7]

That is what I hope for, but I am also aware of the reality as well.
------------------


We are all hoping for you too sweetie.  Believe me.

[Trish77]

I think you have a very good handle on the reality of your situation and what you need and want to do about it.  That comes through very clear to me.  It also seems that you are not in any denial about this and that you have the resolve to do what needs to be done.  Yesterday you went from having a husband who refused to acknowledge anything to one who is at least dialoguing with you about his health and is open to taking some steps.  That's a great start.

Perhaps it's the optimist in me.. or the person who never gives up hope until reality slaps me right up HARD in the face....but I see hope for all of you here.

I wish you the very best and I DO hope for good things to come out of this one way or another for you, your husband and your boys.

Trish

[motheroffour]

You know I was going to skip this thread but I'm glad I didn't because I do want to contribute.  So often people have to "give up something" when their health is threatened - it could be food in the severely obese, it could be alcohol for the alcoholic, drugs for the drug addicted, cigarettes for some....you have to know having lost all that weight what it is like to give up something.  You had to dig deep I'm sure.  Your husband is most likely coping with that situation right now. Keeping him moving with the docs is the best thing you can do for him.  He may very well choose his own health over a condition that can be life threatening...for some that ephiphany can occur in an instance, for some they have to mull it over and build the inner strength and will power.  You husband may or may not be an alcoholic, you probably know the best.  All you and the doctors can do is help him as best as you can, discover within himself the "lightbulb" to make a life style change or at best put a date on the calendar to start the process of fixing what ails him (that sounds corny, but you know what I mean).

[kcrandy]

one and the most important issue with alcohol/addiction is admitting that we have a problem.  when an alcoholic is in denial there is not a lot anyone can do. depending on what or how drastic the alcoholic has progressed in thier addiction a medical facility could be needed to help the alcoholic threw withdraws. i believe it was said earlier that unless the alcoholic wants help it is useless for a loved one to do anything for the alcoholic. i pray your hubby gets help there are very good aa groups that are available in most cities.

i also agree that seeking out al-anon would be very helpful.  it will help you to see how to deal with and understand the alcoholic better,  and will help to build a good support system as well.

i will keep you and your hubby in my thoughts and prayers. please keep us all informed.

p,s,  insanty is defined as "doing things over and over and expecting different results".

[Forseegood]

I hope youre not interpreting this as a 'how-to' manual as to how to proceed, it isnt...that's why at Al-anon they don't tell you to do, 1...and then 2....and then 3....it's not that easy and laid out, to me anyway...we all have to deal with the particular circumstances in our particular circumstances, there is no one size fits all...of course I think, it's a good idea to accompany him to docs, help him out...in the beginning for sure...like I keep on saying, people can surprise you for the better, and maybe a switch will turn on in his head, and he very well might "get it and help himself too." He does need your support. Sorry if I sounded too dour or pessimistic...didn't mean to....

But as you learn more and more about this kind of stuff, you realize that there is a point that you get to when you cross over from helping to enabling...that's all that I want to point out to you...

once you are in an enabling (and I don't mean to imply that you are going to get there either, only you know your life) mode, you remove any personal responsibility from the alcoholic...and you help infantilize him...which makes him feel worse about himself, and more resentful...and more needy, and all those feelings in the alcoholic will, oftentimes, make him feel *more* like drinking, oddly enough...so the spiral goes around and around...and oddly enough, you can harm someone with too much *kindness,*

No good deed goes unpunished with this type of syndrome...I"ve seen it so many times I can't count...people even do this with their own children...I take care of a girl who is 18 years old because both her mother and father are alcoholics, drug addicts and do not take responsibility for her, so I did. I'm helping her get through high school, and she's indeed graduating this summer. She needed someone, so I took her in.

Her grandmother, the mother of her father...takes Erin sometimes, and I have to help undue the potential damage that this woman has done to Erin, all in the name of love and good intentions, whenever she stays over her grandmother's house. She did this to Erin's father, her own son. And she still learns nothing from her mistakes. Probably because she is dealing with her own issues, course, we all have issues.

I'm trying to make Erin a self-sufficient, productive young woman who can take care of herself, and get through college or trade school, etc...so when she's here, she needs to get up at a certain time, do chores, do homework, help with things, I even have her help with neighbors that I might be helping, so she can learn to give back. I teach her to be punctual and kind and respectful to other people and herself. If she wants something, she has to earn it in some way, to show her that most good things come from work. And of course, I'm not Colonel Klink, she often has fun and goes out with her friends too....I've turned around a girl who had a third grade education, didn't know how to use a fork and knife...washed maybe once a week....when I got her it was like she was raised with wolves. She would sleep 12, 14, 16 hours due to depression and boredom and lack of motivation to do most anything. Won't see it's been easy, of course not, but it's been gratifying, and it's helped to get my mind of myself as well.

When she stays with her grandmother, her grandmother does absolutely EVERYTHING for her, she never has to pick up a dish cept to eat off it. Her grandmother waits on her hand and foot, brings her food in bed, and Erin doesn't even look up from her video game....that she can play all day if she wants to. She won't wake her because she says the girl "needs her sleep" so she lets Erin sleep for 14, 15 hours. Erin is not made to do anything there, only pleasurable things and eating and sleeping. Erin calls all the shots there, and disrespects her grandmother in the process. She hardly ever disrespects me, kids are smart and they pick up on things, she might know that her grandmother is doing her no good by all this.

Is it any wonder why this woman raised a drug addict? Erin's father? Erin's father is a 46 year old man, but his grandmother pays most of his bills, and takes care of most of his responsibilities...if he gets a DUI, his mother pays it, pays for the car tow and court costs, etc, and gets him a new car. As you can see, Erin's grandmother is literally killing her own son with kindness, enabling him in almost every way. How can he ever grow up with a mother there to keep him a baby? This guy is 46 and acts like a 14 year old. I don't want her to do this to Erin, so I try to counter-act it, and then let it go, and hope for the best.

And of course, I'm sure most of us could think of couples where the man or the woman  crosses the line from help and love - to enabling. That's all I was pointing out. Your situation might be very different, I was just giving you examples. Please support your husband. Of course. All I was saying, and some others I see is....support and love, but if you get to enabling, try not to cross that line cause it could do more harm than good.

When it gets to that, everyone is better off if you "let go with love" and hope for the very best. That's all I'm saying. I do wish you the best, for you and your whole family. And of course, this is just my take after dealing with my own demons with this stuff a long time ago.

[Kalio1]

Well that is great progress if you ask me! He has agreed to seeing the doc ( I would strongly recommend you see a different doc preferably a Heptologist and NOT the guy he has seen already) because they are experts with LIVERS and that is vital. It really gets my goat that so many of these dufus docs act so casually towards Hep C! It is the NUMBER ONE reason for liver transplant in America today, you'd think they'd take it seriously! It is costly to treat however, and like it or not, cost is on their minds.

As to him going to AA, if you start going to AlAnon ( and I recommend the kids going too if you can swing it) and go regularly, you might see him progress towards getting himself to AA faster. It is HIS thing, you have said your piece, now he has to take responsibility.

I totally relate to your 20 year marriage issues, been there! But, I did what I had to do at the time, as incredibly painful as it was, which was to leave. Our issues weren't alcohol, they were long standing issues over his Mother's suicide before I was ever on the scene, but the issues did force me to seek help and to actually leave for a time while he worked it out. Our marriage is MUCH stronger because of it, much stronger because I faced it and ACTED, my actions caused a reaction, which was him taking responsibility. This really did wake him up. At first his attitude was "yeah, go ahead and go and don't let the door hit you in the a**!) but that quickly turned into " HELP don't go! and he got into counselling, and we will celebrate 30 years of marriage soon.
Losing 210 lbs. is such an incredible accomplishment that I KNOW you have the strength to face this and get through it. You should be incredibly proud of yourself, that is amazing. I don't even know you and Im proud of you!
His platelets are pretty good! That is a relief. By the time I finally was diagnosed, by platelets were below 70.
Now if he gets the biopsy you will have the info. you need to move forward. He is only 45! He can get through this and he CAN get well, he has his whole life before him. I had to treat twice, like many here, but I beat it and I have cirrhosis, so stay positive. It is not true that you can not treat with cirrhosis as someone said above, you can treat and you can beat this devil virus, I know, I did it as have many others here.
This is something he can beat.
  I would not allow him to drive the kids EVER if he has had a seizure and is drinking. I am suprised he is allowed on the road, that is a bit scary!
I learned over many years of marriage that no amount of begging and pleading got my husband to deal with issues, the only thing that worked was me acting on MY issues that arose from his. When I did that, changes started to happen.
When I was finally diagnosed correctly with Hep C, I wasn't a big drinker but I stopped drinking that day. Hubby kept drinking. I never said a word. Within a year, he'd stopped altogether, all on his own accord. He wasn't an alcoholic, but worked construction and drank a lot of beer. Now he drinks mineral water, and he says he likes it better. He told me
he thought all those years he drank beer he realizes now he was just thirsty. LOL

You hang in there, your marriage can survive these challenges and it might even become a whole lot better!
STAY POSITIVE. I am sure you know all about doing that, anyone who has gone through that kind of weight loss knows a lot about staying positive!
Please keep us posted.

[mikesimon]

That was a great post Kalio. I hope all is well with you. Mike

[Forseegood]

so good to see you posting again, I might not always agree with you (bug I usually do for the most part anyway) but you have interesting posts that are informative...you know? I thought you were almost at cirrhosis, no? but not cirrhosis...anyway, you might even be lower then that now....best of luck to you, so GLAD you svred!

[HepJourney]

Thank you Kalio and Forsee... you are both so kind and caring to take the time to share such incredible experiences.  I am learning a lot and it is helping me to pressure him forward.

Thanks again to all.  I am going to see about him changing Drs.  I have called twice asking for tests results and they have never called me back.

I told hubby I will go to appts with him, but he has to call and make the appointments, he knows what days are best and when he can get off work.  If I dont have something I have to do, then I will be there, but as his support person, not his caretaker.

Thanks again,
K

[merryBe]

yu've already gotten such good advice there's not much I can add...
except that you get our prayers......

one thing that may help is to read up on the 4 stages of grief.
everyone has to go through a period of denial and rage before they get to grief and acceptance. Alcohol is just a means of running and staying stuck because emotions are hard to confront.
You might get further along the resolution road if you can try to make the focus just talking about solutions and feelings, even if it does take time and patience.

example: right today you could ask the doctor to put him on Lactulose, a simple indigestable sugar that helps move the poops along. Three movements a day should do a lot to clear his brain fog...the fog is caused by too much ammonia in the system and the Lactulose helps remove that excess.

Maybe then in due time you can sit together and discuss love, life, death, denial, etc.
By the time his brain unfogs, you can explain to him the stages of grief.

sometimes it helps to realize it is just normal to try and avoid talking or thinking about stuff...especially stuff that's life threatening...and like someone pointed out, this disease is treatable.

Someone has to take the time to try to get through to him, and that someone is you.  It may be, that in the end you can't reach him, but I'd never give up on a 20 year marriage before the old college try had been administered ad nauseum.
Are you and hubby believers in God? that can make a difference. You can pray and seek pastoral help if you are. (I'm a lay pastor so feel free to use me if so inclined).
  
In any case it is hard, so hard....yet you yourself in his shoes might be fearful and sad about the kids, the pain, and 20 other issues....so try to help him sort it out.
Certainly there are those beyond reaching, but for everyone like that there's another that can make the turn around given that a good samaritain stops and is merciful.
My best to you both
maryB