Hyperbaric Oxygen Treatment

Has anyone used Hyperbaric Oxygen Treatment for HVC related liver and other intestinal damage?

I'm on a transplant list with a MELD of 15.  I never opted for Interferon. Late in the game when HVC was discovered and I have the most resistant genotype.  It was highly recommended by my primary heptologist, but one of the country's most respected infectious disease specialists told me last year I would just have been injecting side effects.

It's my second time on the list in 2 years.  Most docs wonder why I look, feel and am doing so good.

Alternative medicine is the only answer I have for them.

Based on how I feel after a few sessions in the HBOT chamber, I'll probably be removed from the list again.  I haven't felt this good in 4 years.

Just wondering if anyone else has tried it.

[ladywhy]

I vaguely heard of this treatment many years ago. When I did hear of it, I don't believe it was available in the US. I think it was Canada. Where are you located? Please explain further about this oxygen tx. What exactly is involved?

[meki]

" I would just have been injecting side effects."

LMAO! - Oh my that's the truth now.

OK - so do tell about this treatment. I haven't heard of it anywhere before --- but give some details. I'd like to know.

Meki

[antman]

sorry to hear of your advanced liver disease. why did your Dr's say it was useless to treat with the SOC? i've read that even if you don't clear the virus, interferon can help slow down the progress of fibrosis. i always am concerned when people pin their hopes on all these "alternative" remedy's. the only thing that has been proven to work thus far is interferon/ribaviron. it's sad to see people waste their $$ only to have their hopes dashed down the road. have you had full blood workup and a liver biopsy lately? this will give a better picture of you liver damage. also, you can't go by how you feel with this disease. that's why they call it the silent killer. their are no symptoms untill it's too late. good luck.

[desrt]

"I haven't felt this good in 4 years."

You can get the same feeling by hyperventilating and you won't need the HBOT chamber.

[R Glass]

That was uncalled for

[drobie]

I appreciate the comments of all the alternative med naysayers, but I'm not an uninformed consumer and I don't have unreasonable expectations for outcome.  I throw stuff up against the wall and hopes that it sticks.

Over 4 years I've narrowed down everything I've tried to a few that are most effective, all recommended by a "reborn" MD with 30 years as Gen Practioner.  Milk Thistle is at the top of the short list (and it was recommended to me, along with Alpha Lopoic Acid, by one of the heptologists that I've seen in recent years.)

I'm also on the transplant list for the second time.  The first time, I had lesions on my liver that they worried were pre-cancerous.  My quackery cleared those up in a few months and I was removed.  Last summer I had a staff infection that was 2-3 weeks aware from killing me.  They put me on the list again because of that.  2 yrs ago my viral load was over 2 mil.  Recently, it's 750k.

Further, I'm not going to take a drug for 48 weeks with significant side effects whose effectness with my genotype 1 is something less than 50% with an unacceptable probability of remission.  (Rough estimates, based on a variety of sources.)

Let's be rational.  We all know oxygen heals.  That's why bandaids have holes.  We also know that someone with an enlarged spleen, portal hypertension and cirrhosis is probably getting a compromised flow of blood.  What it is? 204 bodily functions controlled by the liver.  

HBOT simply has you breathing pure oxygen under (in my case) 1.5 times atmospheric pressure.  It's seems stupidly simple.  The pressure pushes highly oxygenated blood into areas that your comprised system can't get enough oxygen to.

The problem I'm having with HBOT is in keeping my optimism in check.  It increases with each session.  After just the first week, my energy level has returned to pre-diagnoses levels and admominal discomfort has disappeared.  Exactly 9 days ago, I couldn't get out of bed for 36 hours straight.

This is not about ridding my body of HVC.  I doubt HBOT will do that.  But I am confindent that it will deliver big benefits in terms of energy, abdominal pain and discomfort and even brain function.  It's already happening.

I don't care if I carry HVC for ever as long as I can control the damage.  An forever simply means until they find a better treatment.

For those who are curious, start by listening to this interview.   http://wpr.org/webcasting/audioarchives_display.cfm?Code=mlr  Look for the 5/17 interview by Larry Meillor with Dr. Paul Harch.  Then go to Dr. Harch's sight and under the "Info" tab, click "Download video" and watch the Curt Allen vid.  It'll stream if you just click on the photo frame.

Finally, if you want to learn more, read Dr. Harch's just released book:  "The Oxygen Revolution".

[cruelworld]

drobie - my only other suggestion is a religious exercise routine. start small and do the best you can.
hyperbaric oxygen chamber - you climb in to this submarine looking chamber and they seal it and increase the pressure. then they add extra oxygen. just the opposite of altitude sickness.
this time, its an overabundance of oxygen squished through your body. sports doctors insist it gives shorter healing times. other doctors use it for serious illness as here. the more time in the chamber the more good effect.
it might be difficult to prove its efficacy with double blind studies. maybe they already have, i dont know. ive never done it but i beleive it works. the scuba people get the same effect going deep under water and it seems like they all said something good about the extra oxygen effect.

[drobie]

Desrt, I strongly suggest you listen to the interview referenced, ESPECIALLY the part where the woman calls the show and asks about using HBOT for the treatment of HVC and liver damage.

I was on the phone making an appointment immediately after hearing that part...and when I say immediately, I mean I picked up the phone before the interview was over.

[ladybug52]

This tx for hep c has been discussed previously, I'm glad you're feeling better, BUT I'm glad you understand this is not a cure by any means.
"I don't care if I carry HVC for ever as long as I can control the damage."

I don't think viral load is any indication of success, liver enzymes and biopsy results are much more important, and tell the true story of your state of health.

"It was highly recommended by my primary heptologist, but one of the country's most respected infectious disease specialists told me last year I would just have been injecting side effects."
Why would you trust the judgement of an infectious disease specialist more  than a hepatologist?
Just Curious.
Bug

[desrt]

If I ever have a diving accident, gas gangrene, or one of the dozen other recognized uses for hyperbaric I would certainly consider it as a therapy. The trouble we get into with alternative therapies is automatically assuming that something so miraculous is going to automatically apply to our particular problem - especially if it's a therapy that makes us 'feel' good.
I'm not completely closed off to alternative therapies. I think ingesting CoQ10 to improve gas transfer at the cellular level is a great thing to do for those of us over forty. I even took Chinese herbs with my IFN/riba tx. However...
It'll take more than a caller to a Wisconsin Public Radio show to convince me that this has significant value for hepatitis patients.

[GrandmaA]

I drove to Nevada for this treatment and because I was on Dr. Zhang's herbs he said you are doing fine and don't need the hot treatment. He wouldn't do it. He wanted me on antiaging medicine. I never went back. It was a very long drive. I wish he would have let me have just one treatment.

[drobie]

Regarding "the judgement of an infectious disease" doc.  His the best physician I've every encountered, he treated me for an infection cause by portal hypertension and he works closely with GI clinic.

Let me make something clear.  This really isn't about treating HVC here, it's about treating the damage cause by it.

HBOT, in a vast majority of cases, is used as a SUPPLEMENTAL therapy and here's the kicker....NO SIDE EFFECTS.  If it doesn't produce results, no harm done other than money spent.

>>especially if it's a therapy that makes us 'feel' good.

I'm not taking a narcotic and it doesn't produce a high.  I'll stick with a therapy ESPECIALLY if it makes me feel good.  So far...more energy, better appetite and digestion, no pain or adominal (abdominal) discomfort.....gee I think I'll quit while I'm ahead, better yet...I think I'll quit cause it makes me feel so good.

desrt, how long after a treatment did you say my paper bag high should last?  Just curious as to when I'll come crashing down.  

>>liver enzymes and biopsy results are much more important, and tell the true story of your state of health.

I have a complete record of my all my blood work going back 4 years, entered into Excel and graphed.  I tend to watch what's happening.  ;-)

We're all experts here.  And what's our speciality?  What works for each of us.

I just asked a question.  It's been answered.  No one here seems to have experience with HBOT.

Cheers.

[ladywhy]

Just the idea of feeling good makes this chamber attractive at this point. Has anyone tried it during tx?

[drobie]

BTW, if anyone has a specific questions or is interested or curious as to how my experience goes, you can email me at ***@****.  My next blood work is due in Sep, might I might request a round before that.

Oh yeah, I was put on the transplant list last Oct.  Appts were orignally scheduled every 90 days.  I started taking Modiflan in Feb and my MELD score dropped so they've changed the interval to every 6 months.

I haven't tested our drinking water for Peg Interferon, but that must be what caused the improvement.

I am not recommending HBOT other that to say I think it's worth looking into for anyone who has any kind of internal damage caused by HVC.

Research it and then make your own decision.

[desrt]

"If it doesn't produce results, no harm done other than money spent."

"Oxygen toxicity ... is severe hyperoxia caused by breathing oxygen at elevated partial pressures. The high concentration of oxygen damages cells..."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_poisoning

[ladybug52]

Not trying to burst your bubble by my comments, I'm glad it's making you feel better. No, I haven't tried it. Good luck, please let others know how this helps with objective data. I think it'd be wonderful for you to post a comment on how your blood work looks next time around. I think this would be great if it can help others who can't tolerate tx, it's just hard not to be skeptical.
Bug

[drobie]

Mr. Dest,

I haven't found any evidence of negative side effects of medically SUPERVISED HBOT...and I've looked. Accidents have happened, but they happen when someone buys their own chamber and exceeds recommended protocols.

Pray tell, please list all the incidents you are aware of.

I can't be treated with conventional means.  I look elsewhere.  If that offends your big pharma sensiblities, my apologies.

A suggestion:  Watch the PBS special "The New Medicine" and then compile of everything YOU know is not possible in medicine.

[desrt]

Sorry if anything I posted in this thread was offensive. As long as you're suggesting this be done under supervision (not at home ala Michael Jackson) we're on the same page. People should be allowed to spend their money as they please. It just raises my hackles if I think someone is trying to sell something or encourage people to avoid the SOC that might save them.
As for my 'big pharma sensibilities', you probably just gave a couple people a chuckle. Read some of my postings about big pharm and HCV patent rights or what I've written about my own experiences combining alternative med with SOC. The one thing I try not to do is make unsubstantiated claims.

Peace.

[desrt]

I'm probably a little slow, but I'm still not clear why you "can't be treated with conventional means" if it was "highly recommended" to do so by your hepatologist. I've seen people treat with literally half their liver gone from cirrhosis - and respond.

[Castlecraig]

Have been taking to a Russian Doctor who has been treating successfully viral hepatitis with Hyperbaric Oxygen.    Go for it perfectly safe

[Andiamo1]

Very interesting post.  I am a scuba diver and I can say that after deep dives, I feel substantially better and often though it might be the effect of the partial pressure of oxygen increasing by a factor of 3 at a 100 foot dive.

[jmjm530]

[jmjm530]

Drobie: I'm on a transplant list with a MELD of 15.  I never opted for Interferon. Late in the game when HVC was discovered and I have the most resistant genotype.  It was highly recommended by my primary heptologist, but one of the country's most respected infectious disease specialists told me last year I would just have been injecting side effects.
------------------------------
How long have you known you had HCV? The above doesn't make sense to me unless the strategy is to transplant first and then treat for HCV because of a late diagnosis. That's because many folks treat with stage 4 liver disease, get cured, and studies suggest that their cirrhosis may start reversing.

As to Hyperbaric Oxygen, frankly I haven't researched it, but not finding any negatives isn't a good reason to spend time, money and resources on a treatment. Worst case is when someone delays needed proven treatments because they opt to do an alternative treatment instead. Not saying you're suggesting this, just an observation.

-- Jim

[RazorDog]

I have been researching HBOT since 96.  I suffered a brain injury in that year, so my interest in HBOT was treatment for that.  In 1998 I found out that I had HVC.  So I delayed my HBOT treatment at that time because several doctors did not know HBOT's effect on Hep C (Dr. Paul Harch included - I had even consulted him).  At that time it was theorized that HBOT might actually stimulate viral production, so Dr. H removed my application from his study.  

I am very glad to see your post and I will start researching the subject again.  I will let you know what I find out.

[medicmommy]

I have a friend who has been a scuba diver for years...he also swore that, after a dive, he'd feel much better, and, coincidentally, his viral load would drop by a log value...He felt that his tx worked better too, and he had fewer side effects...also, I know there has been someone trying to get a study going at University of Washington regarding the application of hyperbaric tx and viruses..Last I heard, they were in line waiting for funding...I believe this works...But, oh to have my own hyperbaric chamber to play with...lol

[robeire]

Hi There, thanks for sharing this therapy with us all here-
I did 6month inf/riba for gen 3a- 4 yrs ago- cleared while on it, came back
1 month after- side effects---whoaaaa -I ve never gone back to who i was before i took that gear!! the riba eroded part of my gut and stomache lining-i never had reflux of GERD until takin these drugs- so i can see why for you it would be injecting side effects.
I am doing TCM herbs from Tindall in the UK-as well as what may well be labelled "OUT THE BOX"  approaches  to healing hep c-
I wish you well-I can tell you have been working hard on all levels to heal- youre in my thoughts and prayers---something I  read recently that really challenged me was that all disease originates in the MIND  which in turn effects the body- hey did you read ACIM material- check it out on the web-read the material on healing -its extremely profound and very challenging but quite unlike any other healing modalitie I ve ever come across!!
God Bless with every wish for One and All  
robeire

ps I aint entering into any debate on acim/pharma/tcm  discussion here- I simply aint going there as my ego loves that kinda thing !!!! I ve have nothing to prove..

[Xhrles]

Thanks for sharing. Very  interesting. Good to hear that it is working for you and wish you good luck. Whatever keeps you off the list has got to be something to look into.

[robeire]

How are you doing Drobie?   stay in touch some of us really do care ;)
I remember when I did  infn combo treatment, I asked my Doc whether I could have an oxygen cylinder for my use when I got short of breath from the drugs
he refused -but i figure it might of helped!!
Anyone  got any more news on this treatment (hyerbaric)
Be well from Rob in ireland (apparently)

[merryBe]

without a long debate, because I'm not up it, and not to dismiss all treatments out of hand,  check out the health pages and the HR files on antifibrotics,

look, we know anything might help, but most cannot get to the dozen hyperbaric chambers anyway...or afford them...

plus, if oxygen helps you, you could get your doc to prescribe that, and your insurance would pay. Even though not under pressure it sounds like you believe the oxygen itslef is the help. Oxygen is a helper and not. It brings the breathe of life, it also aides in free radical formation....but a lot of what you are doing is based on your BELIEF it will help.
I am not trying to knock your belief here, hoping something helps can effect our outcomes as our brain is effected by our moods and thoughts.

here is my problem:

you said.>>>>>>>>>>>>I don't care if I carry HVC for ever as long as I can control the damage.  An forever simply means until they find a better treatment.

but elsewhere you said your damage was signifigant and advancing, So which is it?

plus, your VL can move around that much from week to week, up and down, so that is not proof at all.  The way I understand what little research has been done there is little to suggest that milk thistle helps beyond placebo, and little to suggest it hurts either.

I'd encourage you to concentrate on 2 things,  
1. that page I mentioned above, there are substances showing antifibrotic results now.

2. to rethink downplaying treatment based what one doctor told you. The real cure rate numbers vary from 90 to 50 percent depending on genotype, true enough you have only a 50% chance, BUT,
let's try an analogy here:

when you get in your car do you buckle up???
WELL, you only have a one in a million chance of a fatal accident, yet you buckle?
NOW, if I told you there was a FIFTY percent chance that today you would be in a fatal accident, you'd be a lot more likely to buckle up...right?
So if someone gives you a 50-50 chance to live rather than to die of liver failure...I fail to see why one would not buckle up, so to speak....even if it is uncomfortable and impedes ones movements somewhat..while in transit......it could still save your life. Making any sense here??  What you are kind of saying is, well, I'll turn my lights on, and wear a helmet, but that crucial seatbelt is out of the question.
and yes there are side effects.

one question, was the doctor who said "inject side effects" to you by chance a naturopath or someone who would benifit by you sticking with alternatives to modern medicine??? I think it's crucial you anwer this.
maryB

[desrt]

Check out the date on the original postings. Most who are trying to sell you something don't stay around here long.

[merryBe]

thanks, usually watching for dates and trollers but not sure if this might be one of the duped.
We've already buried a couple of friends sold on the quackeries so I took the time.

oh well, at least I have that time, thanks to modern medicine and surgeons, and the grace of God and the gift of reason, right?

As far as "REBORN" physicians go, I have worked for both alternative and regular MD's both. Have seen all sides of therapies and results....
and have also been "Reborn" myself long enough to know the most important of all admonitions:
"believe not every spirit, but test the spirits to see if they be of God."
Some of the most deceived, most dishonest people I've known have been "reborn"...and I say that as a christian, and with great sorrow, but it is true.
One of the most incompetant docs I know holds to his faith...which excuses all his incompetance somehow..

may I humbly add to that there are lots of people that are duped into beleiving if something works on one thing it will work on all else...even doctors can be fooled themselves, or are intent on believing having made the investments, and so beleive in what they do, they cannot afford to disbelieve...especially after building a whole practice up on false premises.

even though we know there are good organic cures and substances for every good one that does work, there are three or four claims out there.......and a hundred years ago everyone bought the snake oil...it's just that now it's all rebottled or repackaged to ensure belief!!

If I had the bends, or 3rd degree burns, or shingles, then yes we can discuss hyperbarics.  The problem is, no one knows presisely why shingles is effected.

my guess, as a non-researcher, is that when the virus breaks to the skins surface that the oxygen then degraded it, as oxygen degrades virus on all surfaces over a few hours time in most cases. And this may explain the phenomena of better healing in burns (as bacteria is kept low, or in shingles remitting and going back to it's internal hiding place (it is still forever with us)  

However, you cannot ever oxygenate your blood to the degree needed unless you basically could blow dry your entire blood stream, and then where would we be?
Bottom line is HCV is more persistant than an oxygen rich environment can overcome.

No boolean search led me to any legitimate research (done by real researchers not the sellers of machines)  proving destruction of the HCV or HIV retroviruses.  

[merryBe]

the only study with any promise used only 3 people in each leg of tx.

it concludes that while oxygen may give temporary relief it kills no virus, and should only be considered in conjuction with tx drugs.......

why did they conclude so?  Because usless you plan on LIVING inside the chamber you are going to have a continual progression of fibrosis....even if you slow it down for a day here or there......and the point of tx is to KILL the virus so the liver on it's own can then begin to reestablish healthy non-fibrotic tissue which it will do once the virus is gone and cannot interrupt the normal cell division process.

what comes with time is knowing there have been a hundred "revolutions" already with these viruses as with tumors. Be it laitril, collodial silver, uv light therapy and list goes on
and on
and on
Bottom line the people still walking around that have HIV 20 years later...are the ones on pure pharmaceutically refined antiviral regimes.
Those I've known with advanced HCV aren't here anymore, I can take you to their tombstones.
The only ones I know of now walking around with good livers seven years later are the ones who grace this forum, who went on current SOC drug therapy and eradicated this virus. Period.


P.S>Anyone wanting to forego standard therapy proving thousands of people achieving SVR in hundreds of double blind studies....and trade that for one study using SIX people only,
who were not cured according to the study itself....well......it kinda makes me want to quack and shake my head!!
maryB

PPS>Next time someone sticks their hyperbaric head in here again, I'm just going to pull up this answer again. Grin.
Peace to all.

[merryBe]

here's that one "stellar study"
1: Chin Med J (Engl). 2002 Aug;115(8):1153-7. Links
Clinical pathological study of treatment of chronic hepatitis with hyperbaric oxygenation.Liu W, Zhao W, Lu X, Zheng X, Luo C.
Department of Gastroenterology, The Affiliated Nanjing Second Hospital of the Medical College of Nanjing Southeast University, Nanjing 210003, China. ***@****

OBJECTIVE: To detect the feasibility and theoretic basis for treatment with hyperbaric oxygenation (HBO) in chronic hepatitis and to compare the changes in hepatic function, immunity, pathologic morphology, ultrastructure and HBV in hepatic tissues before and after treatment. METHODS: Sixty cases of chronic hepatitis were randomly selected and divided into two groups: the experiment (n = 30) and control groups (n = 30). Patients in the experimental group were treated with HBO for 6 courses. Patients in the control group were treated for 60 days with the usual drugs used in the clinic. The function and bloodstream graph of liver were examined and liver biopsies were made before and after treatments. Routine paraffin sections were stained with HE and observed under the light microscope. Ultra thin slides from paraformaldehyde and glutaraldehyde fixed liver tissue were stained with lead citrate and observed with the transmission electric microscope. HBsAg and HBcAg in liver of the experimental group were detected with ABC immunohistochemistry method before and after treatment. RESULTS: For the experimental group, ALT, SB, gamma-GT, AKP, IgG, and IgM in blood and the degeneration and necrosis of hepatocytes were remarkably decreased (P < 0.05 ), the mean contractive wave of bloodstream in liver and the bloodstream in right ramus of janitrix were remarkably increased (P < 0.05), and the swelling of mitochondria, increase of lysosomes, generation of Kupffer cells, infiltration of lymphocytes in portal area and capillary generation were all remarkably all eviated (P < 0.05) after treatment with HBO. There were significant differences between the experimental and control groups after treatment with different methods (P  0.05), and the expression of HBsAg and HBcAg in liver was not weakened (P < 0.05) after treatment. CONCLUSIONS: Treatment with HBO for chronic hepatitis was effective and recommendable, but it could not reverse liver fibrosis. However, it might be able to delay or prevent the liver from fibrosis, so it might be more effective at the early and middle stages of chronic hepatitis. HBO could not inhibit the HB virus. So we consider that treatment with HBO should be simultaneous with anti HBV therapy.

[Fred283]

Thank you for your very informative posts and for taking the time to share your experiences.

I have had HBOT several times from my ND (Naturopathic Doctor) here in British Columbia for my HCV over the past few years and will most likely continue to have six, 90 minutes sessions, each year for the foreseeable future.  I also take milk thistle which I buy in bulk for $10 a pound from a supplier in Oregon. I am now 72.

I got my HCV from blood transfusions in 1973 and find that the HBOT treatments give me more energy and make me feel a whole lot better.

I also take periodic intravenous hydrogen peroxide (3% - H202) and intravenous Vitamin C (75 grams) from my Registered Nurse and find these infusions help as well.

I declined to take any of the prescribed western / allopathic prescription drug treatments from my MD hepatologist because I do not have any confidence in big pharma and their scientific studies, the results of which I feel are always pre-detemined and rubber stamped by the FDA and Health Canada.

Fred

[H2O4U]

By the way, Fred, I like your note.  The FDA only is interested in the "money" side of prescription drugs.

HBOT is a great way for providing help to lots of people.  If it makes someone feel good isn't that a good thing?