If the HCV is infection, how did the very very first person get this virus

[alijee]

has any body information???

[jmjm530]

Nail Salons

[FlGuy]

Swine.  In Mexico.

[desrt]

http://vir.sgmjournals.org/cgi/content/full/85/11/3173

"...Applying a molecular clock to extrapolate times of origin of more divergent HCV variants, such as subtypes and genotypes, is clearly pointless, as the number of neutral sites or the limitations on sequence change at variable sites is not known, so there is no denominator with which to calculate and correct for multiple substitutions. The constriction of sequence space of viruses such as HCV with GORS implies that many of the branches that are evident on phylogenetic analysis of contemporary sequences that define virus species, genotypes or genera occurred at remote times in the past. In making the molecular clock-based estimates above of 350–1000 years for the time of divergence of genotypes, we are therefore in danger of telescoping a much longer period of virus evolution into an unrealistically short time-frame.
A much longer time perspective on HCV evolution, provided by our understanding of GORS constraints, fits much better with the globally distributed nature of HCV and the concentration of specific genotypes with historically relatively isolated populations in sub-Saharan Africa and south Asia. As a potential comparison, GORS in the widely distributed human virus hepatitis G virus/GB virus C appears to have restricted sequence drift to 11–13 % nucleotide sequence divergence over the course of evolution of modern humans over the last 100 000–150 000 years (González-Pérez et al., 1997; Pavesi, 2001; Simmonds, 2001). The greater sequence diversity between HCV genotypes implies times of origin that occurred even further back in the evolution of humans..."


So, probably during a mammoth hunt.

[Trish77]

I'm thinking it passed from mosquitoes to humans.

[alijee]

No!   the evidences of passing from mosquitoes to humans are not known

[Mr Liver]

That's really a great question. And like with so many other great questions there are only theories offered as answers. The one theory that I find the most compelling is the theory of descension or de-evolution to use another term. I've posted on this a few times in the past. This holds that a virus such as HCV may have first been an organism such as a parasite, or even an antibody. Whatever the answer there is one thing known for sure---HCV in its evolutionary past had to have been self-replicating on its own without using intracellular mechanisms. Here is a link with alot of useful information on the topic.

http://www.biology-online.org/articles/origin-evolution-viruses-escapeddna-rna/origin-evolution-viruses.html
ML

[fretboard]

All of these viruses that are showing up such as the swine flu, HIV, SARS, avian flu etc. and including HepC were passed on to us by the animal world.  When you have 10 minutes you can watch this video on youpoop and it will tell you the whole story.lol  

fret


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMEPV-NTeZs&feature=channel_page  

http://www.ted.com SARS, avian flu, swine flu ... each virus outbreak raises the question: What can be done? A compelling answer from virus hunter Nathan Wolfe, who's outwitting the next pandemic

[Trish77]

I was joking!!!

[Kristina538]

Note what dsrt said above.   I heard that it was around hundreds of years (pre Christ) before scientists had given it a name.   Those generations prior to us succumbed to liver problems of unknown origin, but never had the opportunity to be liver-friendly, or attempt to treat.

[nygirl7]

Monkeys in Africa.  Just kidding Alijee I have no idea.

[winner727]

I dont care where It came from ,just as long as It goes away ,and dosent come back . truley   Ihave no idea .

[GSDgirl]

I'm with winner on this one (makes the proverbial cross with fingers LOL) It is gone and I do not want it back..................Wait......maybe it came from chickens, one of mine bit my hand & drew blood this mornimg, she wanted to keep that darn egg.    should I worry?

alijee, I am kidding but the chicken did bite me.

Denise

[GGraphix]

Your posted link on this thread was very informative but I seem to recall you adhered to the theory that virus were not living organisms at all but merely bags of chemicals.

[meakea]

The following paragraph is from a letter that Granitekonig posted a while back.  The letter was from a doctor (liver/Hep C specialist) to his patient who was having a hard time accepting treatment, etc.  This doesn't actually answer the posted question but it certainly is within the topic and I found it interesting.


"...The stupid virus you speak of has plagued mankind for thousands of years, probably dating back to pre-civilization. This stupid virus, against all odds, has found ways to adapt, mutate, and survive within the heavily protected human body and to infect other organisms, spreading to all corners of the world colonized by human race, in an almost unprecedented way. It is interesting to think that, if the mode of transmission of hepatitis C is pretty much exclusively by blood transfusions, needles etc, how was it able to survive as a species before modern times (before blood transfusions, injectable drugs, surgical procedure etc even existed)? Some speculate that there is one answer: war. Through wounds that occurred in battle, warriors from all cultures would pass on the virus to their surviving enemies."

[newleaf09]

I know that everything alive has the possibility for mutation during mitosis.  I don't think they have said virusses weren't 'alive' for a long time.  My biology memories are that they are so small that they were unable to see the particles until they perfected electron microscopes and shattered the particle with gold to be able to see them at all.  I also know that until hep C was identified in the 90's, most people who died from cirrhosis and liver cancer or got transplants were misdiagnosed as to the cause of the meltdown.

With the blood to blood transmission being required, I wonder if hep c isn't just a mutation of one of the other viral heps.  I share the same curiosity as Granitekonig's letter writer.  How the heck did the virus even survive without medical treatments, transfusions and injections, all only existing for the last century.  Seems like a pretty poor survival method for an organism

[Teufelhunden]

chickens have teeth??

[GSDgirl]

It sure felt like it LOL.  Its beak sure felt like it and after I covered my hand with my coat the little bugger went up and down my arm.  The breed that I have is usually very docile (they lay greenish blue eggs) this one surprised me

[Mr Liver]

Humans are animals.
ML

[Mr Liver]

I believe I have said viruses are not alive according to accepted scientific defintions of life. And if I were to use non-scientific terms I would describe viruses such as HCV as chemical computers. "Bag" is a little harsh considering the virus has evolved to be enclosed in a very sophisticated icosahedral shape that is extremely efficient. But this is a different matter. This article I posted details how viruses may have come to be, which is what the original question was.
I have stated quite a few times that HCV had to be self-replicating at one time and that most likely it had origins from some self-replicating life form. (This is theory #1 in the article. Once the original organism learned to enter cells and hijack the replication machinery of the host cell it no longer needed to self-replicate so it 'shed' those parts of the organism used for self-replication that were no longer needed to exist. HCV is in a nearly perfect free energy state as over time it has evolved to become more and more efficient and has 'shed' everything else that it no longer needs to exist. To me, logic dictates viruses had to first be an organism that was self-replicating. How could HCV for example, infect the human body and already have the ability to enter hepatocytes, and use the host cell's replicative system to generate viral copies ?
Its theorized that HCV has become an entity that does not fit the definition of life as we know it through this process of descension. Some take the fencesitting approach that viruses exist somewhere between the living and the dead. Until someone can create a new category with defined attributes to support this I will continue to view viruses as non-living entities. Viruses have no brain nor nervous system, it needs no sustenance to survive, cannot replicate by itself, does not need water (its said that all living things need water) etc,etc. Thanks for the post and I hope my explanation makes my position more coherent.
ML

[thegypsy9164]

I used to raise Aracauna chickens (that is the breed you're describing) when I lived on a ranch near Brenham, Texas.  The breed was discovered in South America being raised by the Aracauna Indians in the jungle.  I incubated the eggs and all as the breed are not good sitters.  Buff Orpingtons or Barred Rocks are good sitters if you want to get the hens to hatch little ones.  They are brown egg layers.  Wish I could continue but live in an area uncool for raising them now.

This has been a fun topic.  Reminds me that if one is an addict, they can spend a lot of time trying to figure out why they are an addict or they can just accept that they are and that the only way to beat it is to not use anymore.

Joey

[GoofyDad]

A Scotish farmer, a cold and lonely night, and one very cute sheep.  

[thegypsy9164]

Lol

Are you my Daaaadddyy?

[Bill1954]

HAAA! Too funny! Gooeydude will be on that like right now! Hilarious!!

[GSDgirl]

You are correct!!  I do have a little banty hen that is broody and sitting on a clutch of about 10 eggs.  I had a buff orp and that buggers head would spin like the exorcist LOL

[jdwithhcv]

Easy come, easy go!  Oh well...only the lonely!

[Bill1954]

Boy, I just blinked and it was gone; amazing!

[jdwithhcv]

Itchy trigger finger I guess!