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If the Hemopurifier being tested by AEMD in India is able to reduce viral loads in blood of HCV ?
If the Hemopurifier being tested by AEMD in India is able to reduce viral loads in blood of HCV infected subjects, then how could this not be anything but helpful?
I am sure that it is not cure because not every copy of the virus is in the blood.
There are likely only a small percentage that in the blood.
But from the virus''s point of view , is it not a numbers game.
Because the reason that a person's own immune system can not rid the body of the virus is because the virus keeps mutating? The only way it can mutate is by making lose copies of it self in high numbers until one copy figures out how to defeat the immune system. Right? And then natural selection will of coarse favor that copy of that virus and it will survive and multiply until the immune system figures out how to defeat it and then the virus will have another mutant copy that natural selection will favor. And the war goes on.
At least that is how I think it works. So if a person could even reduce their viral load in there blood by 1% then
would that not decrease the odds of one of the losely made copies of the virus becoming the new mutant strain?
Of coarse if that is true then Blood letting would likely reduce the viral load in the blood by 1%.
I am not advocating the return to middle evil medicine .
But it makes so much sense to me that if the Hemopurifier does being down the load then it would definately be of great help before starting any treatment.
Unless I got it all wrong and virus's really do their thing though the aide of some sort of divine intelligence for the outside that guides their mutation.
I have no knowledge or training in medicine of any kind, so I can only look at the problem of HCV
in the way a statistic would, or a game theorist.
Can someone please straighten me out and tell me where I am wrong?
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Page 7 of 7
475300 tn?1312426726
I am another like Trinity and had to had phlebotomy's before starting TX due to PCT.  As Trin knows, not only does your liver damage accelerate but it causes awful blisters on the hands that turn them into a ground meat looking mess. until you remove a pint of blood weekly that makes  you anemic.

Don't know who you are referring to BUT::::many people here are very informed.
...............I am sorry ! ! This is not what I came here for. Heat of the moment ,,,, got the better of me ,,,, sorry,,,,, closed minded people and their negative uninformed input do that to me ,,,,, ...........................

I think I will steer clear of the "time machine"

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Interesting article to show the adjunct potential and diversity of blood filtration.

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/news-220543-101-treatment-may-end-deadly-tick-bite-threat.html
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179856 tn?1333550962
I am sorry ! ! This is not what I came here for. Heat of the moment ,,,, got the better of me ,,,, sorry,,,,, closed minded people and their negative uninformed input do that to me ,,,,, "

Thank you for the apology.  As you now see, no one in here is closed minded they are only interested in scientific things that actually are based in reality and will help cure or slow the progression of HCV and its effects.

Wastes of time and money just aren't high on the priority list.
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1130586 tn?1316269892
Your welcome for my apology , however ,

I completely disagree with you on the closed minded aspect of some people in the forum.

Many people here are closed minded, and, if disagreed with on their self proclaimed expert view ...  like to dish it out, but, it seems can't take it.

Obviously you did not follow the links supplied on the scientific reports showing the "reality" and great success of 80% with SOC for 1a using the DFPP.,,,,,,,,,,

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=DFPP+hcv+treatment+japan&btnG=Search&as_sdt=2000&as_ylo=&as_vis=1


In a different thread you said about your treatment ....
"My treatment cost approximately $200k with all of the extra add on drugs and tests that I needed to complete it.
Go figure can't even afford hamburger to go with the helper."

$200,000 dollars ?

From me to you nygirl,

To quote a great line, from the Paul Newman movie , Cool Hand Luke... ,when the warden was giving PN a very hard time, after he got caught breaking out of the chain gang prison for the second time ....

The warden says to the chain gang inmates:

"What we have here people is a failure to communicate, some folks you just can't reach !"


You spend $200k yourself ,,,,, Two Hundred Thousand Dollars ,,,,,

and refuse to open your mind about a device,,,,,, that is proven to be effective, 80% SVR,  and, reduces the cost of Tx ,,,,,,,


People, what we have here is a failure to communicate .....



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179856 tn?1333550962
Yes 200k for something that works to cure a disease and stop liver damage progression compared to free for something that does nothing well.............we can see who got that deal pretty easily.

People, what we have here is a failure to communicate ....."

We have been communicating but apparently you dont speak New Yawk.  Good luck to you with the thingamajiggie - but personally I think leeches are cheaper.

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Yeah and the warden had Luke did a useless hole, cover it back up and then dig another useless hole.  Didn't change Luke's attitude one little bit did it?

So for the sake of the $ and not humanity big pharma and most of the world's medical community is not interested in the DFPP machine.  Rubbish!!   The world's top liver heads would be all over it if it showed any promise.  AMED is digging useless holes.

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96938 tn?1189803458
Here are the questions AGAIN.  I guess you can ignore them AGAIN.  The stuff in quote is what you said.  The stuff ending with question marks are I guess what you would call questions.

"apparently solid research and proof does not always satisfy some folks or the FDA"

Are you referring to the 60 patient study that you referenced or the 9 patient study that I posted?  Those are your definition of solid reseach and proof?

Why doesn't AEMD mount full scale independent tests like other new drugs and devices?

"What we do know is they will continue to push drugs that have less than a 50% chance of success rate .... with side effects that are unknown .... using a toxic and possibly very harmful drug ... who's action's on the virus and our body's are not fully understood. "

Isn't AEMD's plan to combine their device with those toxic drugs? Where is the gain there?

"Why DO these tests have to be done overseas ?"

Good question.  Why doesn't AEMD launch trials and the concept in the US?

I'm certainly not opposed to the investigation of new drugs and devices.  I just can't figure out why AEMD will not proceed.  Some good advances have been taking place in HCV treatment over the past 5 years or more.  Can't figure out why AEMD will not get into the mix if the product is so good.  There is no reason that AEMD will not hold it's device up to investigative scrutiny. Is there?

and one more...

"And make big $$$ doing it this way"

From Aethlons website.....now plan to initialize commercialization in India..

So they are doing this for the good of humanity out of altruisitc motivation? Get real.


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In referrence to your comment:
Look at Andiamo who had failed conventional treatment like ten times but then added telapravir and has been SVR for years now.  Evo 101 is not so simplistic any longer at all with the advent of the PIs being added on board.

I am happy for Andiamo,
Thats  because even though he went through the INF/ PEG treatment many times and failed he still got a SVR.
Those first treatments failed because 99% of the remaining viruses in his body after the first treatment were the offspring of the viruses that figured out how to survive the treatment.
Lucky for him those same viruses all died before  any of them figured out how to ivade the treatment when Telapravir was added to the mix.
He is lucky. If he had had 90% of all the viruses physically removed by having their proteins stuck to the affinity agents in AEMDs blood filter. Then he would NOT have had to have been so luck to get the SVR that he did.
But I am happy to know that Andiamo is a very lucky man. (somebody has got to win the lottery).
If that treatment  with Telapravir had failed he would have had to just keep stacking the drugs over and over again until he died or got lucky.
Evolution 101 is how life works !!
And no number of PIs that big Phara can produce will change that!

I really do not understand how it is that you can not at least understand my argument?

I exaggerated my beliefs to try to make a piont.
(I am sure that Andiamo did
not have to be as lucky as a lottery winner to get the SVR that he did.)
But you seem to be the one person here that really does not get it.
If I could convince you that the idea COULD have merit then I thick I could convince anybody. Sense I first posted the question I am think more and more that it does have merit.

Do you believe that the drugs that pharma produce are like magic.?
Like those techniques used by witch doctors?
That is not meant as an insult!
Do you?
My grandmother did. And I still love her.

Do you understand what Darwin was talking about?
My grandmother did not believe in any of that crap. and I still love her.

I just reread all the responses to my question that started this whole thing.
I still do not have my question answered.
If the AEMD filter reduces the number of virus copies in the blood?
(I know the HCV virus is produced in the liver but it does travel in the blood)
Then would it not by definition reduce the chances of a HCV virus
that is able to invade what ever method the INF/PEG use to rid the body of the virus. (the fact that the virus can reproduce very quickly does not matter as long as it is not reproducing copies that are resistant to the INF/PEG treatment at an increased level and it will not do that unless put under evolutionary pressure to do so)

I think that you are misled into thinking that Viral loads mean nothing.
It is true that the raw numbers mean nothing if taken out of context.
The number of viruses that are in ones body that are resistant to INF/Peg drugs DO MEAN A LOT !  and the virus level at the beginning of the treatment is only important because the larger the number the greater the chances are that there are a considerable number that are INF/PEG resistant. If the filter lowers that number then it will also lower the number resistant to the the INF/PEG treatment.
SO that would make it a numbers game.
Read up on how Evolution works.
Read up on Game theory.
Unless somebody gives me a good reason to believe other wise then I am going to believe that HCV virus must act in the same way that all other life known  on planet earth acts. (with the exception of Bolivian spungalitis, (MAD cow))  
I was really not looking for a back and forth argument about
who is stupider than who.
To settle that. I AM THE IDIOT ! That is why I asked the question.
Can someone please help this idiot out and let me know if I am missing something?



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Why don't you ask your hepatologist what role DFPP therapy can have in increasing your chances of SVR by reducing viral load.  I can recommend a few world renowned hepatologists if you'd like.

Trinity
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179856 tn?1333550962
And no number of PIs that big Phara can produce will change that! "

Oh boy well then good luck to you.
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Hi zoom.
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475300 tn?1312426726
Is this available now?  I have a friend that SOC has not worked for her and she is ready to try anything.  Also could you tell me the cost?   Thanks
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Which big pharma company is going to come up with a pill that changes the way evolution works.
Thanks for wishing me good luck. We all need it.

To Trinity4:  I tried to ask a hepatologist what role DFPP therapy or AEMDs filter would play. But did you ever get a doctor to ever give their opinion on anything? They always just play it by the book so they do not get sued if they were to wrong about something they said. They just tell me to wait until the FDA approves something and until then I should just be patient. So basically they tell me to sit down and shut up because I am just a stupid factory worker and am not qualified to
have an opinion about such things and that it would be best if I did not think to much about it. . They tell me to pray to Big Pharma and hope that they will save me.
Are they correct? Is that what I should do?

Anybody have any thought about my question about how the HCV virus would change under evolutionary pressure caused by a change in its design space that would be caused the day a person starts INF/ Peg treatment?

Anybody? Anybody?
Is there a reason that the AEMD filer would not help by lowering
the number of possible copies of INF/PEG resistant stains?
Anybody?

To GSDgirl: I do believe that it is avialable now at the Metroclinic in Bombay, India. (Mumbia, India)
I can try to find out how much it costs. If you were email AEMD maybe you can haggle over the cost. IDNK but I was in India for 3 months and they Haggle over the cost of everything so I would not be surprised if Medical treatment are the same. I know one can get 20% off the price of IVF treatment just by asking.

To oooreally: I thought they burnt all the witches. How did you manage to slip though?




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As a matter of fact I had one of the best hepatologists in the country, attends the liver meetings all over the world, stays on top of all the latest treatments and doesn't give a rats patoot about FDA approval.  Doesn't pull any punches and shoots straight from the hip. Sorry to say, he never brought up the hemopurifer.  

I must say there wasn't a sign over his door saying:  This Way To See The Great Egress

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I think that the reason that it is being test in India is because AEMD does not have the kind of capitol that is required to do it in the USA.

And I think that aurguement that the Filter can not possibility work because if it did
then big Pharma would have bought the company by now is not a very strong argument.  When Apple Computer was just get started many investors believed that home computers would NEVER be economically viable because if they were then they would have been produced and marketed by IBM by now.
Do you back when that was the argument against buying Apple computer stock?
I am not saying that AEMD is going to be the Apple computer of HIV and HCV treatment. But please do not make the mistake of believing that just because Big Pharma is not interested, is Proof that it does not work.
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I so glad to hear somebody has a great Doctor. My Doctor was probably a good guy but IDNK because he looked so overworked that I seen him I would ask HIM how he was feeling. He had no time for any of my questions. And I understand.

Could you possibly ask our doctor my question?
Is it possible that he never heard of AEMD?
If that is the case then I think somebody should go to India just to make sure this company really exists.
If AEMD is really just a elaborate fraud then I will feel like **** for defending it.
AEMD has a list of Doctors and scientists on there ''Research board''  posted on their website AEMD.com. If your Doctor does not have an opinion about the filter
then ask him if he recognizes any of the names on the list and if he can find out if these Doctors really do consulting for AEMD.
I think that the theory behind the Filter is sound but first I should make sure that the company really exists. I lost money investing in ENRON and a little in Global Crossing so I know the value of skepticism.  
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96938 tn?1189803458
That's what I was thinking as well.  The question was somewhat rehtorical.  Good ideas, not just products, eventually "find a way".  The subtle point that I was making was that the concept has been out there for several years and has not yet "found a way".  I don't always buy the argument that "big pharma" is a conspiracy against the little guy.  Sort of similar to the idea that some company out there has solved the problem of perpetual motion and that "big oil" has subverted and colluded to keep the idea buried.

There is a doc who posts here rarely and commented on the HemoRazzmataaz.  He actually thought the concept had merit.  (I can't find his post on the subject). The problem was the plumbing attachment to the patient.  As you know, the virus is very adept at replicating.  I think his issue, or comment, was that unless the plumbing occurs right in front (maybe right behind) the liver the overall effect is nominal.  Wish I could find that post.

To your example, were the "Steves" that different from Bill G? And, didn't Apple and MSFT  both "find a way"?
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Yes, hindsight  is 20/20. The ideas that do end up finding the way always sound so logical and after they are common place everybody asks themselves 'Why did I not think of that"? But the ideas that do not make it
just fade away and everybody says that they know that the guy that had that idea was a nut job.

I wonder why the doctor thought that the filter had to be hooked up right to the liver?
Ones whole blood supply goes through a main artery every 15-20 minute
And the virus does not replicate in the blood.
I think that the company is a real company.
It is hard to imagine going public ten years ago and still
not being exposed if they were a scam. But then again Madeoff made off with a lot of investor $ for a long time.
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96938 tn?1189803458
I don't thinks it's necessarily a scam either.  It's a product looking for a market and to elbow into the U.S. market is expensive and it appears that they bleed money without the benefit of a a financial purifier. The point that I'm trying to make is that, regardless of the studies referenced or the boasting of the company, it's not yet proven.  I guess that the reason that the market is Japan and India is that the AEMD needs a footing.  More importantly. it needs money before they can expect to bring it to the "show".
Yeah, wish I could find that post. It made sense to me even though body plumbing is certainly not my forte.
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96938 tn?1189803458
Found it!

Somewhere in this thread:

Pretty good for an old guy to remember a 3-year old post !!!!

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Hepatitis-C/Who-in-NYC-has-a-Hemo-Modulator/show/405384?personal_page_id=862927#post_2371053
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1130586 tn?1316269892
your first post in response to Ruffuss's question was:

by FlGuy , Jul 21, 2010 08:43AM

Blood-letting of about 5.6 liters will resolve the HCV.  However, there are other treatments available with produce a cure in which the patient lives.

Good for you to have opened up your thinking a bit & giving link to the Energex post of 3 years ago ... !

AEMD is not doing trials or Tx in Japan , they start their clinical trials in India this month.

In Japan, DFPP is approved and successful in up to 80% of patients, the Japanese Govt. is helping patients to pay the bills when they choose to use this Tx regime.

States wise , Energex Systems has their non drug UV blood cleaning system ImmunoModulator . ( As FLGuy directed us all to )


The point is, contrary to NYGirls view of "viral load does not mean a darn thing" ,

Viral reduction at the beginning SOC Tx seems to be an effective approach for increasing the possibility of attaining SVR from 35-50% with INF + Riba alone to apx. 80% ,,, without adding any more drugs .


The DFPP approach is new , only approved in 2008 in Japan, it appears to do just as Ruffuss's question was posed, and is suggesting at the onset of this thread ....

Reducing the viral load at the beginning of SOC Tx also seems to reduce the chances of viral mutation that the virus is capable of, allowing INF+Riba to do it's job (although until now nobody can explain exactly how this happens) and achieve a much higher SVR ratio than with INF + Riba alone .


We should always get at least a second opinion if not more , when dealing with doctors ...

Doctors call their business's , even after many years of school and how ever many years they have been in business :

"Practicing" medicine

Folks, do your homework before making your personal choice. Don't just depend on what someone writes in some forum !



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1130586 tn?1316269892
I didn't ignore your questions, thought all the info was right in front of you, self-evident.

Your questions :

1) Are you referring to the 60 patient study that you referenced or the 9 patient study that I posted?  Those are your definition of solid reseach and proof?

Actually there is more than 100 english references I refereed you to , so yes. The most important fact is that Japanese Govt, gives financial support to their citizens who use the DFPP which was approved for HCV Tx in 2008.

If you can read Japanese you'll find thousands of references to this machine ,however that I doubt.

2) Why doesn't AEMD mount full scale independent tests like other new drugs and devices?

I'm not affiliated with AEMD , I have no idea why not ...

3) Isn't AEMD's plan to combine their device with those toxic drugs? Where is the gain there?

The gain is , if it is a success in trials like DFPP , not layering another drug on top of the SOC to achieve a high SVR ratio.

4) And make big $$$ doing it this way

Nothing in this world is free ... more power to them .


To the contributors of their valuable closed minded opinions here :

HCV virus Tx has only made small steps forward in treatment protocols in the last few years with the introduction of PI's into clinical trials ,

True or not ? This because why ?

Can you explain how INF works for some but not all ? Not likely as it's not understood yet.

For well over 15yrs. starting from the early 90's the only new introduction to the HCV Tx protocol was the Pegelated type of INF.

Recently with the industries realization of billions of $$ to made made in the next 10 yrs or more., thankfully there are steps forward in research of new protocols , PI's + we'll see what the future brings.

To discount new technology, before it has a chance to prove or disprove itself as an effective agent .......

I don't get it , how is it some of you folks think you know it all, when the doctors and scientists freely admit they don't know ??

Why would anyone want to close there mind to new technology before it could be proved or disproved?

DFPP is already and only being practiced over seas, Why only in Japan and Taiwan? I don't know the answer , it's used successfully in more ways than treating HCV as well ....
It appears those folks may well be more forward looking than the folks here ....


HemoPurifier, we'll have to wait and see what the results of their 1st clinical trials are for HCV, this info should be forth coming in the next month or so. At least they are getting their chance.

HP is not available on the market in India or anywhere else yet , only time will tell.


I really don't understand how some folks here claim to know so much, everything, regarding Tx, mutations of the virus , the effects of high or low viral load on Tx, liver regeneration, liver enzymes etc. etc.,  this list is a long one .... and yet have closed minds ......

When in the industry, research scientists, and the doctors themselves freely admit they are not even close to fully understanding what there is to know about this virus ??

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1130586 tn?1316269892
Thought this insert from MedHelp would be a good thing to remind the viewers of here:


Member Comments are provided by individuals and reflect their personal opinions only. Under NO circumstances should you act on any advice or opinion posted in this forum.  ALWAYS check with your personal physician before taking any action regarding your health! MedHelp International and our partners, sponsors and affiliates have no obligation to monitor any comments posted on this site, or the content and/or accuracy of such exchanges. MedHelp International does not endorse the views of any user.
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1130586 tn?1316269892
This from the VA's hep website: http://www.hepatitis.va.gov/vahep?page=prtop04-wp-01

Pay particular attention to the last statement regarding beginning Tx with a high viral load and clearing the virus.........


HCV viral load. This results of this test, quantifying the amount of virus in their blood on a particular day, usually are given in "international units (IUs) per mL" and often additionally as "copies per mL." The IU measure was established to be very similar among different laboratories, so that a viral load measured in IUs by one laboratory should be equivalent to that measured by another laboratory. Values in copies/mL may vary among laboratories. Practitioners also should bear in mind that viral load often fluctuates 10-fold or more in a given patient without any clear reason.
viral loads >800,000 IU/ml or >2x106 copies/ml are considered "high."(1,2) Some laboratories will give values merely as a range (eg >800,000 IU/ml). Since a "2-log reduction" after 12 weeks of interferon therapy often requires precise knowledge of pretreatment viral load, practitioners may ask their referral laboratory to further "dilute" samples to yield an estimate of the height of viral loads outside their usual dynamic range.

"High" viral loads are associated with lower viral clearance rates in all published studies of interferon and ribavirin therapies.


All published studies of INF + Riba Tx concluded a high viral load at the start of SOC Tx lowers the clearance rates ......

nygirl - Where was it you get your data again ??
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Rubbish, the lot of it.

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96938 tn?1189803458
I can't help ut think that Aethlon picked the wrong disease (HCV) and at the wrong time. With drugs like teleprivir and boceprivir very close, it seems that the Hemopurifier - even if it was ever proven will be rendered obsolete for HCV in the very near future.  We have all read, and received actual patient reports, about the very fast viral effects of the new drugs even in the first few hours of administration.  Assuming that the PI's will have SOC timeframes of about 24 weeks, I don't see how AEMD would be able to carve any niche and make any inroads to the treatment of HCV.  Even if the thing works the Company management are a bunch of boob.  Good thing there aren't many of them.

AEMD's website states "...studies have confirmed the capture of Dengue Hemorrhagic Virus, Ebola Hemorrhagic Virus, Lassa Hemorrhagic Virus, West Nile Virus, H5N1 Avian Influenza Virus, 2009 H1N1 Influenza Virus, the reconstructed Spanish Flu of 1918 Virus, and Monkeypox Virus.."  If astute, it seems like the management of the company should turn it's attention to that dastardly Monkeypox virus.  If any of you recall our former member , Meki from Alaska, you might recall her references to monkey sex which she referred to on a number of occasions.  Maybe there is something there...hmmm.

Aaron was also kind enough to remind us of the Medhelp policy which includes    "ALWAYS check with your personal physician before taking any action regarding your health! "  There could be a whole bunch of people who, after reading this thread, have run to their doctors and said "hey, doc can you write me a prescription to go to Hyderbad India so I can get me Hemopurified".  It coule be, I suppose, some relief for the unemployment problem because people could get call center jobs while they are there.  Imagine, making a customer service call and getting transferred to India and actually speaking with an American.  I don't know, maybe this thing has legs after all.

Aaron also referenced the VA. The freaking VA.  The one government agency that probably creates more HCV than it cures!!

I think I'll stand by by my earlier asertion that the best course of action for AEMD might be your local Jiffy Lube location. I think it's the only way AEMD will do any business in the US.
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1225178 tn?1318984204
I'm wondering why... if that machine works so well in Japan that the government actually helps with the payments for treatment... why haven't they made it across the ocean to the US in 2 years? That's a long time for something that has been proven to be so effective... if that is truly the case.
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179856 tn?1333550962
nygirl - Where was it you get your data again ?? "

I guess unlike some geek who believes everything they read I found out from real life and real people and real experience.  I started with a 568,000 viral load and did not clear until after week 12 and before week 24. I have known many others who have had the same exact situation therefore proving (at least to the real hepc patients if not the old data study makers and authors who just repeat this old information) that really it does not always make any difference in the world. Ask Cuteus or Bill or any one of us what the case is when starting with a low viral load then go reread the study data and wonder if it is always correct or not.

Good to you if you feel this viable option will help you clear - go to India and help out their ecomony all you like, but personally I think you are wasting time and money and should hold out for the REAL medications. Doing daily AEMD doesn't really seem to have any merit from my real life experiences and those of my other friends in here.

Again I don't personally care what you do it is your life and best to you - if that means living in India for a couple of years well I guess to you it is worth it but here in the USA they are working on medications that already are proven to assist curing this disease.
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I think that the reason the AEMD filter is able to help the viral loads of so many diseases is because the filter has affinity agents that cause the proteins of the viruses to stick to them.  All viruses have proteins so it is just a case  of trying different affinity agents that stick to different proteins until they find one that sticks to the proteins of what ever virus that you want to filter out.
If you got viruses that are causing your car to run poorly, then  AEMD could probably make a filter to get them out. I am not a mechanic so IDNK if proteins in motor oil are a common problem, but if they are, then AEMD should make a filter for Jiffy Lube.  
And the reason that they have developed a Monkey pox filter is because it is the closest thing to Smallpox that researchers got to work with.
The only 2 test tubes of Small pox that are SUPPOSED to be on planet earth are in Atlanta, Georgia and in some town about 100 miles south of Moscow, Russia.
If that turns out to be true, then the Monkey pox filter was a waste of time, but if Bin Laden get a hold of a test tube of Small pox that somebody forgot about, then you WILL be happy that AEMD got a filter that just might work. So please do not criticize them for doing a little research on Monkey Pox. Because that **** aint even funny.

Nygirl, are sure that basing your beliefs on quantitative Data is not better than basing it on a handful of examples of people that you know.?
I really know a guy that had Colon cancer and was told that he had less than 1 year to live. He decided to try fasting with a twist.
He ate nothing but Jello and Ex-lax for 12 days and now his cancer is in remission. I told him that I do not think it was the diet the cured him but he is certain that it was. If I get colon cancer should I take the advise of the guy I know that is cured? or look at the Research Data of thousands of people that have had the same problem?




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475300 tn?1312426726
This reminds me of the peroxide infusions
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This is just my opinion as to the answers to your questions, I am just an idiot Factory worker so rember the source of these answers.

1) Are you referring to the 60 patient study that you referenced or the 9 patient study that I posted?  Those are your definition of solid reseach and proof?
Answer: AEMD only has 6 employees, it only had $120,000.00 of cash on the books last quarter.
I do not know what it costs to do even one full scale clinical trial on one person but considering their financial resources, I think 9 patient study is the best they could do. and I believe that the tests were done on people that had HCV AND were on kidney dialysis machines because they were in end stage kidney disease. (AEMD could not even afford to rent the dialysis machines to do the tests so they did the what they could afford)


2) Why doesn't AEMD mount full scale independent tests like other new drugs and devices?
Answer:  Lack of  $$$$

I'm not affiliated with AEMD , I have no idea why not ...
Lack of  $$$$

3) Isn't AEMD's plan to combine their device with those toxic drugs? Where is the gain there?
Answer: I think they figure that if a person is going to expose himself to those toxic drugs then they should at least have the best chance of doing what they are supposed to do.

The gain is , if it is a success in trials like DFPP , not layering another drug on top of the SOC to achieve a high SVR ratio. (and maybe they can lower the amount of drugs required for those that just can Not tolerate the Inf + Rib

4) And make big $$$ doing it this way?
If it works and if they do not go broke before they can PROVE that it works then they will make big $$$. (And they deserve to make big $$$ because they took all the risks)

Nothing in this world is free ... more power to them .

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I do not know anything about peroxide infusions?
What was the logic behind that?
Peroxide is an oxidant? How could that help?
AEMDs filter has a logical reason for why it could work.
At least as I understand it.
Are you say that peroxide infusions were some kind of snake oil that some HCV infected put all their faith in?
Like stuff done by a witch doctor?
Do you think AEMD s filter is just like that?
If so, Why?
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Your forgetting one little thing Aaron.  It doesn't matter if the viral load goes to
400,000 IU/mL or below (which is the new low in the hep community) with your crazy cute little machine, the patient still must take those horrible, nasty life altering big pharma drugs to be cured.  Dang it.  And I'm thinking AEMD must be giving out crystal balls with their hemopurifier because they are certain those nasty life altering big pharma drugs are going to work more effectively with a lower viral load regardless of how the immune system works with those horrible, nasty, life altering big pharma drugs. Right?  And then of course geno 1's they will have the option of shortening their treatment time to 24 wks because they will have started out with a low viral load, RVR'd and won't need the full 48 weeks.  And there are statistics to back this up correct?   And then there are those like myself, clinically low viral load, relapser who should jump on SOC right now because that viral load is LOW so SVR odds are HIGHER regardless, right?  Any statistics to back that up?

What you post is nothing more than speculative crap and I think by now you realize this community is hip to you but it makes for amusing conversation.  I suppose if I was committed to such a concept like yourself, I would have to continue with my illusions of grandeur so as not to lose face.  And perhaps credibility means nothing to you because you're just a die hard hemopurifier kind of guy.

Trinity
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I think you missed my point.
I am sure that there are (or soon will be) drugs that can lower the load count just as much as AEMDs filter can. But the Filter reduces the count for All the HCV Viruses. Not just the Viruses that are of the variant that are killed by the new drug.
So I would think that getting a reduced load count after using the filter would be better than getting the same load count after using a new drug.
Because even though the number is the same. The make up of the viruses in the body are not the same. The ones left in the body after the new drug are the ones that are more immune to the new drug. And when those reproduce their offspring will for the most part be like them.
Get it?
But the Viruses that the Filter removed are physically removed so they would have the same offspring as before.
Right?
Am I missing something?
That was my original question that nobody has answered yet.
Please help me out.
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1130586 tn?1316269892
Not so sure that i missed your point Ruffuss, and i don't think you are missing something any more than the current data available provides.

There is no substantiated or conclusive data on your question as far I know. My thinking is pretty much the same ...  

"the Filter reduces the count for All the HCV Viruses. Not just the Viruses that are of the variant that are killed by the new drug.
So I would think that getting a reduced load count after using the filter would be better than getting the same load count after using a new drug."

I agree, for me it makes sense,  but I don't understand your following question:

"But the Viruses that the Filter removed are physically removed so they would have the same offspring as before."  

Can you clarify ? I don't get it , if they are removed physically ... that's it end game.

We need time , the DFPP seems to be the only clinically trialed and approved filtration device at this time & has only been approved since 2008 in Japan. AEMD is just now supposedly starting their clinical trials.

DFPP is undergoing more clinical trials in Taiwan at 6 facilities right now, as you know it's a different system than AEMD based on the same concept. I like the idea , it makes sense to me.

The data to date on viral mutations of HCV is very far from conclusive, the scientists just don't know much ,,, yet.  

Ruffuss , What little data is available : once the virus has mutated , all it's offspring are the same mutation ,,,, or,,,,, possibly in transition to another form of mutation,,,, nice ya ..... nobody really knows yet....

Any left hiding in the liver, which they do so well, the scientists studying this aspect of HCV mutations, can only agree with what the clinical trials say about adding PI's to the regime, thats it's possible ,,,,  up to 65% of the mutated virus will react to the new meds.  

It's anybody's guess Ruffuss. SOC Tx , mutations, side effects ,,,,  all of it at this time, is a guess , speculation , nobody can say 100% conclusively one way or the other.

Mutations are being researched, unfortunately there are no easy answers, as you said & it takes a long time.

I wish you, and everyone, the best results on your battle and quest for attaining SVR.

I have no idea of AEMD's financials, I like the concept, like the DFPP from the first time I read about it & I wish them success on their quest. At least someone is out there trying to find a different approach.

And all the other companies searching for an alternative, drug based or machine based system, to using the only FDA approved drug INF, it is very toxic as the FDA and any doctor will tell you,,,,,

There are many new attempts in the "pipeline" and with time and some luck, maybe one or two will be able to withstand clinical trials and go on to help us all to remove the many strains and the mutations of HCV infections around the globe.

About all we can do right now is keep our fingers crossed that more attention and $$ is focused into finding a real "cure" for HCV. $$ invested and research is being attempted all over the world to find the cure.

Make an informed decision what is personally right for you , not one decided on from this or any other so called "experts forum" ...


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1130586 tn?1316269892
Anybody here that claims they know 100% conclusively about how this virus works or does not work , effects of the meds used or different treatments for HCV ,,,, are in my opinion,,,,,,,,,

Practicing very risky behavior ,,,,,,,, that could influence someone newly diagnosed, there are plenty on your forum, who have not done his/her homework, or is having trauma and easily influenced ...

into making an ill informed decision that may not necessarily right for them.

We are all entitled to our opinions ... giving an opinion is ok , no problem,,,,,,,,,

However ,those of you who claim to be "experts" and are presenting your selves as giving sound medical advise ,

Should rethink your objectives about being here , or at the very least, the way you phrase your opinions ,,

You could not possibly know what is right or wrong for someone you meet online, give your opinion, make sure the folks know it is only your 2 cents worth.

None of you are professional medical practitioners ,or, research scientists.





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1130586 tn?1316269892
I owe you an apology , I'm sorry for my comment to you.
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1130586 tn?1316269892
Can you post a link please to your 400,000 IU/ml updated info ?

Or a link to any valid 2010 info that shows that starting with a low VL  does not help in achieving SVR with SOC Tx ?

Or that VL has no impact on SOC Tx ?

Dang it , I'm still waiting .... darn it ....

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I would like to thank everyone that replied to my original question.
Even those that just told me that they thought that I was stupid for thinking about it.
IMHO I think that there is at least a 60%- 75% chance that AEMDs filter will end up helping enough HCV infected that it will be worth the expense of the treatment. Of coarse, I am saying that without even knowing the final efficacy of the filter or the added expense of the treatment.
It is still possible that using the filter will have some unknown side effect  that would make it a bad idea. (but I think that should have shown up by now)
But I do think that almost everybody would agree that AEMDs research does have enough merit to it, that it is Defiantly worth continuing?
Based solely on the fact that the possible benefit to the device (if it works) is great enough to warrant the little it costs to continue the research to the point where the data is conclusive. (when compared to the cost of the pharmaceutical companies trying to bring a new drug to market). Would everybody agree to that statement?  NYgirl ?

My liver is not in bad enough shape to do this yet. (Plus I do not think I am mentally prepared to do this yet)
But I got the kind of money to spend to try this thing in India. At some point, some American with Geno type 1 has got to take the risks and try it. I have no children, so it may as well be me.  From what I can tell, AEMD has been trying their best to do real trails, and get real data, with no money. They have used their device on patients that were already on kidney dialysis machines and dieing of kidney problems that were likely NOT 100% related to their HCV infection. That is no way to do real research. They need a bunch of healthy 43 year  old Caucasians that have failed treatment twice and have Geno type 1, Like myself.
Maybe I can help see if this thing really can help save some lives of some of our fellow Americans. I will let everybody know when I buy my tickets to India.
I am sure that some of you will think that I am wasting my money.
And I appreciate your concern, but I can NOT take it with it me, and I got nobody that needs it. So I can think of no better way to spend $120K then seeing if this damn filter works in a clinical trial of ONE.



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I will try to explain my thinking. But please do not laugh, I do not claim to understand how this or any other virus does what it does.

"But the Viruses that the Filter removed are physically removed so they would have the same offspring as before."  

Can you clarify ? I don't get it , if they are removed physically ... that's it end game.

Think of total number of  HCV viruses in our body like 1000 marbles in a jar.
960 of the marbles are red (they are the viruses that are easily killed by Inf + Rib) and
20 of the marbles are blue (they are the viruses resistant to the standard treatment)
8 of the marbles are green (they are resistant to INF+ Rib BUT are killed by the new drug.
2 marbles are black, and drug resistant to everything we got.

If you take Inf + Rib + (new drug) then you got just two black marbles left after a few weeks of treatment. But those 2 black marbles are going to reproduce and fill the design space left (the empty jar). After treatment the jar will likely NOT be fill completely with black marbles because some of the marbles will reproduce red, blue and green marbles.
Just like a couple can have a blond haired child even if 7 of 8 of their of great-grandparents have dark hair. And when then child has a child of his own, his child is more likely to have dark hair than blond. Even though he himself is blond.
However, there is a very good chance that the final percentage of Black marbles in the jar at the end of a failed treatment WILL be much  higher than the original.02% that is was before you started treatment.
If a treatment does get SVR then I think it is because the immune system has multiple methods of killing viruses and the immune system got lucky and killed the black marbles. (when the viral load was at its lowest)
Now compare that to using the AEMD filter.
It is like opening the bottem of the jar of marbles and letting out 960 of them.
All colors of marbles will flow out with the same odds.
You could get lucky and the  black marbles are let out  so they are out of the picture
when you start the drug treatment.
If fact, if HCV were as simple as my Marble scenario then one would not even have to be lucky, because the odds are that the Black marbles WILL be gone using the filter.
I know that it is stupid to think of viruses like reproducing marbles but it does make sense to me.  

The other thing that I think plays a role in getting a SVR is entropy. (old age of the virus)
Do they know how long a virus can live in the body before it dies of old age?
Maybe the Inf just prevents the viruses from reproducing and the rest die of old age.
If that is the case then the filter is helping by removing a large % from viruses in  the bloodstream (young and old virus alike) and that should make the drug treatment more effective because the more young viruses that are removed, then the shorter time the Inferion has to prevent new ones for being made?

What do you think?




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This thread is a great advertisement, it never ends.
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A great advertisement? For what?
I am not advising anybody else to try this thing until I do it first.
Hell, it could be dangerous !
I would NEVER advise a young mother to try this thing with the data as it stands now.  

But do YOU think that the AEMD hepapurifier filter has enough current Data backing it up to warrant further research?
Do you think that my logic for why I think it could work in principal is sound?
I want this thread to end if you think that it is somehow turning into
some kind of Advertisemnet for something.
BUT FIRST I WANT YOUR opinion.
If you do not understand my aurguement then ask me what part
you do not understand.
If you understand it, but think that I am WRONG about something please tell me WHY you think that I am wrong.
I am open minded, so you really could change my mind.
But you will not be able to do that by just calling me an idiot.
I already know that I am one.
But please give me your opinion, and the reason you believe what you do.
Bruce

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You told me once that you believed that there is evidence that HCV virisus to NOT become drug resistant and that you think that it is my genetics that are likely the cause of my fail treatments.
do you think it would be better to wait until a Bio-tech company comes out with a treatment that take one Genetic makeup into  account?
I do not have health insurance so If I do go through a treatment I have EVERY reason to want it to work. I got some money but not enough to just keep trying every possible treatment until one works.
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I really don't have any judgement about what you should do for yourself. I have chosen to be in a boceprevir trial and it seems to be working for me, although I am well aware that svr and und are different animals. I am also just a guy on tx with limited knowledge trying to get well. My guess is that I said that it may be your genetics or chemistry that caused you to not svr, if I acted positive about anything I apologize.

I think everyone has made their arguments on this thread, people have gotten information and can make their own decisions which is good, but it is getting old now. I guess I should just stop reading it.

I really hope you and all of us get well by whatever means it takes, I am sorry that you have treated a couple of times and are still not svr. It must be very difficult to go through that. I know that in my 17 weeks of treatment it has been really tough and that's nothing compared to two complete treatments.

Take care and I wish you the best!
- Dave
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Good luck !
If you are Und then you are over half way there.
I am not much of a church goer, but I'll tell my wife to pray for you.
And I wish you all the best.
Take care
Bruce
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Thanks Bruce! A lot of people with advanced disease are waiting for the amazing new drugs. They interrupt the viral replication mechanism rather then boost your immune system the way interferon does. If you really want to use the machine, I think you should do it right before you treat again with one of the drugs.
There is hope,
Dave
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1130586 tn?1316269892
From what little I can figure out about the genetics, entropy, and kinetics of HCV , drug interactions and RNA mutations, be it as a result of our own bodies genetic responses or the virus's genetic responses to Tx,

The scientific community's assessment and general consensus is, when starting Tx for the first time, or, if a retreater , a low VL increases the chance for SVR.


Ruffuss, Are you able to take part in AEMD's clinical trial ?

From where and how did you get the figure of $120K ?  


It seems the folks here don't realize this device is not yet on the market and that it is only being clinically researched .

That IF successful it will be used in conjunction with and at very beginning of SOC Tx ,

and IF successful will aid in viral and possibly cancer eradication in a way that's never been possible before.

For what it is worth , if someone wants to take the time to Wiki , HCV

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepatitis_C_virus

DFPP & HP are both referenced in the "Current Research" section, just after the PI's ...  







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I think Ruffuss & tej109 are involved with the company and are here trying to get investors (suckers) for the almost bankrupt AEMD company.
Just another scam to pray on the sick. Little do they know most people on this forum have seen it all, LDN, ALA, ETC, ETC and will not get any investors here. They are wasting their time.

And just in case I'm wrong......
If they start testing here in the USA with the FDA involved and it looks good with proven data then they will get investors.
Just my opinion of course :)
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If you read the whole thread, you will find I answered the involvement question early and said my involvement is only to the extent that I have owned shares in the company for the last few years and still do.

If you want to think I am somehow actually "involved with the company", that is your choice.

My only goal was to correct some of the terribly uninformed perspectives here about the technology, which is why I said my peace and have not posted as much.  I think if some Hep C people come by this board they actually deserve the real information instead of uninformed cries of snake-oil and scam. And I think the discussion that unfolded acheived that.

By the way, while it is technically, maybe possible the Hemopurifier is hyped and not a real potential adjunct therapy, I consider it highly unlikely given the upcoming treatment study at Medanta in India is being registered with the Clinical Trials Registry of India and the Principal Investigator is the Chairman of the Division of Nephrology and Renal Transplant Medicine within Medanta's Institute of Kidney and Urology.

And, by the way, according to the most recent interview with the CEO, we will hear more about clinical studies in the US specifically for Hep C while the India study is ongoing. So I suspect that means we will hear about clinical program for Hep C in the US within the next year.

Time will tell how useful or not useful the Hemopurifier is helping Hep C patients.  
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