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If the Hemopurifier being tested by AEMD in India is able to reduce viral loads in blood of HCV ?

If the Hemopurifier being tested by AEMD in India is able to reduce viral loads in blood of HCV infected subjects, then how could this not be anything but helpful?
I am sure that it is not cure because not every copy of the virus is in the blood.
There are likely only a small percentage that in the blood.
But from the virus''s point of view , is it not a numbers game.
Because the reason that a person's own immune system can not rid the body of the virus is because the virus keeps mutating? The only way it can mutate is by making lose copies of it self in high numbers until one copy figures out how to defeat the immune system. Right? And then natural selection will of coarse favor that copy of that virus and it will survive and multiply until the immune system figures out how to defeat it and then the virus will have another mutant copy that natural selection will favor. And the war goes on.
At least that is how I think it works. So if a person could even reduce their viral load in there blood by 1% then
would that not decrease the odds of one of the losely made copies of the virus becoming the new mutant strain?
Of coarse if that is true then Blood letting would likely reduce the viral load in the blood by 1%.
I am not advocating the return to middle evil medicine .
But it makes so much sense to me that if the Hemopurifier does being down the load then it would definately be of great help before starting any treatment.
Unless I got it all wrong and virus's really do their thing though the aide of some sort of divine intelligence for the outside that guides their mutation.
I have no knowledge or training in medicine of any kind, so I can only look at the problem of HCV
in the way a statistic would, or a game theorist.
Can someone please straighten me out and tell me where I am wrong?
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138 Comments Post a Comment
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96938_tn?1189803458
Blood-letting of about 5.6 liters will resolve the HCV.  However, there are other treatments available with produce a cure in which the patient lives.
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179856_tn?1333550962
What a waste of time enegy and money.  Leeches might work better for less expense.

Since viral load doesn't mean a darn thing in terms of how much damage is occuring why would anybody worry about it all that much - getting rid of it is the only thing that matters and the drugs out there work much more effectively than bugs.
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Avatar_m_tn
Do you think the leeches might really work? It's worth a try huh? Perhaps leeches that have been pumped up with vitamin d though! Haha

I agree, the voodoo doesn't work. Get the drugs that have been proven effective in 45-80 percent of the infected.
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1225178_tn?1318984204
After 2 weeks of being on treatment my viral load went from 6,000,000 to 120,000 and then two weeks later it was down to 2,000. Why would I want to be hooked up to a machine and have all of my blood pumped through it, cleansed, and then pumped back into me... taking the chance that somebody didn't clean it as good as they should have after the previous patient? That is how a lot of people got infected in the first place.

Plus, I'm pretty sure that our hep c doesn't mutate like you describe. It's not like HIV.
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Avatar_f_tn
"Can someone please straighten me out and tell me where I am wrong? "

Yes, six simple words:  there's a sucker born every minute.

Trinity
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1225178_tn?1318984204
That's not nice.
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Avatar_f_tn
What's not nice is for someone to be hoodwinked.  I suppose leeching blood until you are dead is nicer version of telling someone that Hemopurification is a con huh?
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Avatar_m_tn
Personally, I appreciate your direct no bs approach. You also show genuine compassion for people dealing with these problems. I want to be corrected if I am espousing nonsense.
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897070_tn?1320656229
Does anyone know anything about Aethlon Medical's Hemopurifier. Isnt it supposed to be an adjunctive procedure to be coupled with anti virals. As such I would be interested in it as a non responder, as I would anything else that could improve my treatment success odds. Its an American company and is showing up in some treatment pipelines so hopefully there is something in it ? !
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179856_tn?1333550962
Please don't get hoodwinked as Trin says.  There are loads of 'cures' and 'improvements' and 'liver cleanses' out there but honestly if they worked at all we'd all tell people to do them rather than treatment.

I know you are a non-responder but it wont' help you increase your odds or anything of the sort, no matter how much they cost.

Don't be a sucker, keep your wallet closed and pray for those PIs to come to market fast!
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Thnx  nygirl, believe me I am praying !
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Avatar_m_tn
If the Hemopurifier being tested by AEMD in India is able to reduce viral loads in blood of HCV infected subjects, then how could this not be anything but helpful?


The only thing it will reduce is the amount of money you have.

Don't buy into all these "latest & greatest" things.

Believe in things like the new meds coming out in about a year. These are the miracle cures that have been PROVEN with 6 years of clinical trials.
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Avatar_m_tn
At least that is how I think it works. So if a person could even reduce their viral load in there blood by 1% then
would that not decrease the odds of one of the losely made copies of the virus becoming the new mutant strain?
Of coarse if that is true then Blood letting would likely reduce the viral load in the blood by 1%.

To answer your question, the hepatitis C virus is capable of replicating a trillion virons a day. So it would be possible to have the same viral load the next day after one of these treatments or blood letting. The virus lives inside the liver and other organs so these type of treatments will never get rid of all virons. Hope that makes sense
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Avatar_f_tn
Case in point copyman.  I had weekly phlebotomy sessions (1 pint) for 3 months prior to starting treatment.  Slow responder.....relapser.  Didn't do much for me except put the PCT in remission.
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Avatar_m_tn
I am thankful for all the responses.
I was not sure what to expect?
This is kind of cool.
To the person that thinks that the Hemopurifier is a scam, I appreciate your consern that I not allow myself to get ripped off.
But that does not answer my question.
So I will ask it more direct.
If the interferon and other drugs often reduce the viral load by 98% but then the high viral count returns. WHY  were the drugs NOT able to rid the last 2% of the viruses in the blood? I would think that there had to be something different about those virusis that survived the treatment.
Right? And then when the virus count began to increase again then it was because those were the offspring of those surviving viruses. Right?
If HCV does not mutate in the same way as does HIV then how does it?
I think that it is the way evolution itself works. Right?
I guess it could be intelligent design that allows those 2% of virus to survive the treatment
and then reproduce to make the viral count increase again.
But I am pretty sure that Darwin was correct.
So if the Hemopurifier does really have the ability to physically capture the virus in the blood. (you have got to believe that what AEMD are reporting as data from their tests and clinical trials to believe that, and because they are done in India, I am a little suspect of their data but IDNK).
But if that IS the case.
Then I do believe that they have the ability to increase the chances of a successful treatment with the drugs because they can reduce the chances that a copy (or several different copies) of the virus is in the body that can evade what ever method the drugs are using to try to rid the body of the virus.
The fact that the speed that the virus can reproduce and the large numbers (trillions of copies) of virusis involved only make me think that the Hemopurifier
would be even more helpful.
I think that a game theorist or an evolutionary biologist would say that the use of the Hemopurifier would change the design space in which the evolutionary battle is taking place. Of coarse that assumes that AEMD s claims that ALL strains and genotypes of  HCV viruses stick to their filter''s affinity agents. If any copies of the HCV RNA figure out a way to NOT stick to them then evolution will favor that virus and it will win.
So my question is not if it works, but rather, WHY would it NOT?
It sounds like some people have really tried phlebotomy?
I was just kidding about the blood letting.
I would think that that would not work as well as Hemopurifier filter because even though you are removing virus copies when you remove
the blood and flush it down the toilet, but you are also removing parts of your own bodies immune system that is there to fight the virus at the same time. Kind of like ordering an artillery attack on your front line While your infantry are engage in hand to hand combated with the enemy.  




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I'm still intested in Aethlon but as far as I know they havent released any strategy or research findings and have made many people suspicious by moving to commercialise it in India ???
The logic of using it as an adjunct therapy does stack up if it reduced viral loads substantially and was followed with immediate triple therapy. Thats my thinking any way, purely theoretical as I wont be flying out to India in the near future !
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1225178_tn?1318984204
I posted above about my viral load drops. I just got my 12 week labs back and now my virus is undetectable. You talk about that 2% that won't go away... that happens with some people, but a lot of people get rid of them.

I understand that machine takes your blood, cleanses it, and then puts it back inside of your body. Do you understand that the virus does not replicate in the blood? It has to be inside of a liver cell to replicate, so if you were to get this procedure done today, by tonight one cell in your liver could release millions of virons that have replicated, and tomorrow your blood would again be full of the virus. Especially since in reality it isn't just one cell that releases the virons at a time, but hundreds... that is what causes the inflammation in the liver. So then you'd have to have that procedure done every day till all of the virons that are doing their thing in your liver have been released... and how would you know when that was? How would you keep the newly released virons from invading other liver cells and starting the process all over? This would have a huge price tag on it, and you'd still have to be on tx to get the virons inside of your liver, so you'd have that price tag too.

I also want to re-state what I said above about the chances of the machine not being cleaned well enough from the person that used it before you. A person from India has been on here who was afraid that he got infected at a doctor's office in India because they reused slides for viewing blood. They told him it had been rinsed in ionic water and once it was dry, he didn't have to worry about catching anything. That is total garbage! I'm sure the people who are developing that machine use all of the universal precautions while running their tests... but they aren't the people who will maintain it and administer the treatment to the public. If those people are the slightest bit careless, or if they believe that ionic water is all they need to clean it between patients, you could be infected with a different blood born disease, or worse... say the person before you has A+ blood, and you have B-- blood, and they didn't get all of the blood cells out. It only takes a few cells to set off a reaction in your body that would be very painful or, depending on how many cells there were, could lead to death. I know this is a worse case scenario, but I went to school to be a lab tech, and saw people cutting corners whenever they thought they could get away with it.

In my mind there is no way the benefits could outweigh the dangers and expense.
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Avatar_f_tn
I'm sure India takes universal precautions when administering procedures much like everywhere else in the world.  One poster's bad experience does not mean India as a whole is careless or uneducated when it comes to preventing the spread of infectious disease.


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Avatar_m_tn
I personally wouldn't want to use a machine that removes my blood especially in India :-)
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Avatar_m_tn
It is interesting all the discussion regarding Aethlon's Hemopurifier and the scientific approach of blood filtration, and almost none of if actually includes any facts from the company or information from scientific literature on the subject.

Is anyone here aware of the clinical study by Asahi that should blood filtration at the onset of drug therapy showed a higher percentage of positive outcomes in those that previously failed drug treatment than the clinical data coming from Vertex for the same population?  Is anyone aware that their filtration system is currently marketed in Japan and that Aethlon's filtration technology is more efficient and more specific than Asahi's commercialized product?

It is okay to be skeptical, but to throw emerging technologies out before knowing anything about them seems a bit odd.
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Avatar_m_tn
And by the way, the hemopurifier is used via already existing infrastructure, such a typical dialysis machine, so these fears about inadequate cleaning or blood contamination seems a bit far-fetched.

Also, you might like to know that some a hybrid study/first-step commercialization just got approved by Medanta's ethics board (www.medanta.org) and will likely begin later this fall under Dr. Vijay Kher.  it is also worth noting that Aethlon Medical also just announced a deal to expand treatments into 3-5 additional medical centers in India. (www.aethlonmedical.com)
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Maybe you can explain the benefits of reducing viral load rather than eliminating the virus.
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Avatar_m_tn
I should also let you know that the comment about having the same viral load the next day after a filtration treatment is simply incorrect based on the human data presented by the company.

If you go to www.slideshare.net and search for Aethlon Medical, you will find two different presentations that have a slide discussing treatment data collected on Hep C patients without the benefit of drug therapy.  Your will see that the viral load continued to drop three days after the last filtration treatment, suggesting that not only was the Hemopurifier effective in reducing viral blood load but also that the immune system appeared to continue the fight after the last filtration treatment.
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Avatar_m_tn
The concept is that reducing the viral load at the onset of treatment improves the effectiveness of the drug and/or improves the capability of the immune system to mount its own defense.  It is quite logical and has been shown to be sound via the Asahi study.

And, based on the scientific literature, according to the company, the sooner a patient can get to a non-detect viral load at the onset of treatment the higher their likelihood of being cured.

And by the way, an added benefit of the Hemopurifier as an adjunct treatment compared to the dozens of adjunct drug treatments going through clinical trials is that the Hemopurifier avoids a patient's risk of 1) experiencing additional drug toxicity from the layering drug treatments and 2) unwanted drug--drug interactions.
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Avatar_m_tn
By the way, regarding the importance of reduced viral load, one can read it for themselves at the company's recent announcement:

http://aethlonmedical.investorroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=54
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96938_tn?1189803458
Do you work for AEMD?  So far all your references are to apparent AEMD-generated writings. Anything independent? Structured studies by independent medical entities?  Anything in the U.S., or is it all India?  So far, not much here in what you post.  Certainly nothing new.  Are you saying categorically that the thing will accelerate RVR and viral response?  RVR is 30 days?  That's different.
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Avatar_m_tn
No, I do not work for the company, but have been invested in them for a few years.

And yes, my immediate links are to company info, but this research company has been around for 10 years and there are regulations against public companies making false statements, so one should not doubt the safety and efficacy data they say they have from India.  And providing some company links is at least a better starting place for those looking for possible treatments than all the completely unsupported negative claims posted in this discussion.

Everyone should be skeptical, but when a discussion quickly goes to the notion of leeches and blood-letting, it really serves no one any good.

Here are two links to the DFPP research and approved technology in Japan.
http://www.biomedsearch.com/nih/Double-filtration-plasmapheresis-plus-IFN/20068340.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20467773

And, again, it is worth noting that Aethlon's filtration is a single cartridge that uses lectin affinity agents to capture the virus instead of size for filtration, which is an important attribute because simple size filtration, which is not new in medicine, can pull out important components, such as fibrinogen.

And I am a scientist and not stupid enough to say anything categorically, particularly since a patient has not yet been treated with the Hemopurifier AT THE SAME TIME as starting standard of care drug therapy.  But 1) the Hemopurifier has been shown to reduce HCV blood load in HCV patients not undergoing drug therapy, 2) Asahi's clinical study has shown filtration can improve cure rates when combined with drug therapy, compared to drug therapy alone, and 3) the Chairman of Nephrology and Transplant Medicine at Medanta Medicity will be leading the clinical treatments to begin later this year in India, during which Hep C patients starting drug therapy will also recieve up to 6 Hemopurifier treatments (6hrs on, 6hrs off).  If one connects the dots, the chance for significant improvement in outcomes seem quite plausible.
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Avatar_m_tn
Also, if useful, here are links to two peer-reviewed articles about the Hemopurifier.  

As you will see, the first link includes Dr. Kher as one of the authors.

http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?doi=167011&hl=1&q=tullis

This second link takes you to the latest, full article, and includes Dr. Nathan Levin from the Renal Research Institute in NY.
http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Aktion=ShowPDF&ArtikelNr=245649&Ausgabe=253603&ProduktNr=223997&filename=245649.pdf
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1130586_tn?1316269892
Don't know why some of the folks here are so adamant and closed minded about the possibilities of DFPP or the Hemopurifier in helping to enhance success in SOC Tx ?

Unless ... maybe you work for Big Pharm ??

DFPP has been clinically tested, and approved in conjunction with SOC by the Japanese Govt., it has a high SVR rate. They will help cover the bill for the Japanese patients who undergo this combo Tx. Yes, their Govt. will help pay the bill , naw can't be anything to that, snake oil .....

Big Pharm, I trust them 110% to work for the betterment of the people's quality of life instead of the betterment of the manufacturer's bank accounts .... who has the $$ to lobby the FDA & our Govt.? It sure isn't you or me ....

SOC Tx in not inexpensive. Someone is making ALOT of $$ in this industry ....

There is no way anyone can argue the fact that SOC Tx is self administering poison with possibilities of many side effects , weather it is effective Tx or not.

Ignorance is bliss :=)   The Govt. and FDA must be very happy to have sheeple such as yourselves who follow them blindly and don't question their motives or actions and keep their minds closed to other possibilities.
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476246_tn?1310999221
The possibility of contamination aside. (as from dialysis machines etc.)

This method only filters the virus in the blood. It does not suppress the production of new viruses.

What good would that do, since we know as a fact that having a low VL opposed to having a high VL has no influence on progression of liver damage.

The hep c virus is present in all the organs of our body. It even passes the blood brain barrier.

The only possible use I could see in this is to use it to knock down VL
right before starting treatment.


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Hi marcia I think thats exactly what Aethlon are recommending it for-an adjunctive treatment supporting anti viral therapy. I suppose doing say 10 sessions on the filter then clobbering the virus with STAT C regimen would be effective.

I'm actually quite interested in anything that might give me a better chance of achieving SVR. Theres nothing wrong with thinking outside the box, I would like to see their data in the future.
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The thing is, all the information about the thing is generated in-house.  I'd like to see independent analsysis.  All the experts seem to be assocaiated with the company.
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Avatar_m_tn
My intuition is that AEMD might on to something.
Everybody has told me that HCV virus does not replicate in the Blood so the hepa filter would not help by removing the virus from the blood.
To counter that argument I would suggest that they first figure out exactly how Interferon works. I bet it ONLY works in the liver, with the T-cells ect.
But it does not help kill any of the viruses in the blood steam. So the liver is constantly getting reinfected by the ones own blood. Those people that did get a sustand response only did so because they were able to kill all the viruses in the liver for a long enough time that those in the blood stream died of old age and were not there to re-infect the liver.
If that were the case then it really would be helpful to physically filter the viruses out of the blood.
Now I just made that all up. I am not a doctor or a researcher.
But if HCV were easy to cure then it would be cured by now.
It will require somebody like AEMD to think out of the box and try something different . And the fact that almost all of the researchers say that ''It can not work because the virus replicates in the liver not the blood"" makes me think that AEMD really needs to continue their research. Remember that all the researchers read the same medical books and probably think much in the same way. After all they all decided to get into Medical research. Right? They might all be suffering a bad case of group think? I would love to have a few really smart people that are not medical researchers think about the problem just to see what their suggestions would be in the attempt to try something different. This war will be won by someone thinking out of the box.
Maybe the virus has some kind of life cycle that requires it to be the blood or have the presence of blood in order to replicate? IDNK.
But I do know that those that put 100% of their faith in those that have failed to come up with a 99% cure to this thing are stupid to discourage
real research that does not follow the excepted path.  
I believe that Louis Pastures''s suggestion that Doctors wash their hands before operating was considered un- scientific and NOT based on research or even common sense.
What do think?
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Avatar_m_tn
I got HCV
I have been through two treatments with INT / PEG  and am a non responder.
I own 1000 shares of AEMD and have owned it for over 6 years.
I bought 500 shares at $.26 and 500 shares at $.41. and I own the shares with my Roth IRA. account with Ameritrade
I bought them because I think their research is worth doing.
I could have given $500.00 to the liver foundation but I think that buying this stock was a better use of my money.
If the filter works, then I will make some money and that is good because then I will likely live longer and need more money.
If it does not, then I figure ***** it. The research was worth trying anyway.
This company is very small and very broke. They can not make a profit until their devise is brought to market. They are very effient with their cash available. This I know.
AT Least THEY must believe in their chances of it working or they would have pissed away all their cash on a company Christmas party and filed bankruptcy like other fly by night research companies.
I think this company does have enough cash on their balance sheet to see this thing through. So I think that at least then we will know. But it will be close.
If you would like to help make sure that this company stays solvent long enough to see if this thing really works then please consider buying 1000 shares of it yourself. If it works then you could easily get a 10 fold return on your money, if not, then at least we will all know what does NOT work. The current stock price is $.18 a share.
1000 shares will only cost you $180.00.
It would be a shame if they run out of capital before they get the data they need to know
if their crazy idea has any merit. Most of the company shares are own by its employees so they are all just as hopeful as I am.
Bruce

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1130586_tn?1316269892
I brought up this subject last Dec & wow what a discussion, negativity, name calling until some posts deleted ... emotions ran high is some folks. There was also some good input.
I was just trying to collect information & opened the proverbial "can of worms".

Here's the link to that discussion for those of you who have some time and want to read how emotional folks can get ...

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Hepatitis-C/Hemopurifier-or-VRAD/show/1118968

For those of you that don't yet know , DFPP is very similar to Hemopurification .. Double Plasmapheresis Filtration , it has been researched with Trials in Japan and found to be helpful enough in HCV Tx that the Japanese Govt . supports it and helps to pay the bills for their citizens.

Nobody says it is a cure , only that the filtration approach helps in clearing and achieving SVR in conjunction with SOC Tx , anyone opposed to that .. must have a personal problem. Attitude problem's do not help anyone here , we are all in this together. Constructive criticism is ok , normal, however anything more than that is destructive and non productive.

For the non biased clinical information Flguy and others are asking for ... link to the following webpage. The information is available ... you just have to look ...
Links to : Scholarly review's: Use of Double Filtration Plasmapheresis in HCV treatment :

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=DFPP+hcv+treatment+japan&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart

Another review : from 2007

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1872-034X.2007.00117.x/abstract

Aim:  The efficacy and safety of double filtration plasmapheresis (DFPP) plus interferon (IFN) combination therapy were compared with those of IFN therapy alone in 193 chronic hepatitis C patients having a high hepatitis C virus ribonucleic acid load of difficult-to-treat genotype 1b.

Methods:  All patients received either interferon alpha-2b (IFN-α-2b) monotherapy or combination therapies with ribavirin and IFN-α-2b or pegylated interferon alpha-2b (PEG-IFN-α-2b). Each patient individually decided whether to receive concomitant DFPP. DFPP was immediately followed by IFN treatment, and up to five sessions were given during the first week.

Results:  Sixty patients decided to receive DFPP. In the DFPP plus PEG-IFN-α-2b therapy group (n = 30), viral load reduction at 4 weeks after the start of treatment was greater than innon-DFPP (n = 74) (2.47 vs 1.52, log, P = 0.010), and the sustained virus response was also higher (77.8% vs 50.0%), even in cases of re-treated patients (relapsers or non-responders to previous IFN therapies). Adverse events, mild and transient, were observed in 38.3% of all DFPP-treated patients.

Conclusion:  DFPP plus IFN combination therapy produced a great reduction of viral load during the early stage of treatment and achieved a high sustained virus response, suggesting that this combination therapy may be a new modality for chronic hepatitis C patients at difficult-to-treat states.

I wish all the best success to the U.S. equivalent AEMD !
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Avatar_m_tn
One thing is for sure, Americans tend to take a pill for everything.  So, given that Japan's DFPP and Aethlon's Hemopurifier are not pills, it has met and will continue to meet significant resistance here and elsewhere.

But, for the sake of those who need it, hopefully the treatments about to start at Medanta will show that the Hemopurifier does significantly improve response to the current drug therapy.  This would be great news for all who have Hep C, given how toxic current drug therapies are, and great news particularly for those who have not responded to the drug therapy.

The next 12 months should reveal quite a bit on this front.

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IFN is not a pill.
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179856_tn?1333550962
One thing is for sure, Americans tend to take a pill for everything.'

Well considering your body makes like a trillion hepc virus a day - you'll be needing this non-pill treatment for a long long long time.  I don't think anyone has to name call anyone for that point to be driven home.

". The current stock price is $.18 a share. 1000 shares will only cost you $180.00. It would be a shame if they run out of capital before they get the data they need to know
"
If I were to invest I would invest in one of the new pills that will likely be approved in the next few years that will greatly and really increase the odds for success with treatment - not invest in something that really makes no sense at all. But each to his own right?
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1130586_tn?1316269892
That is correct ,,, "each to their own right" . What's wrong with that ? Better to follow other peoples propaganda and rhetoric blindly .... like lemmings ....... you know what happens to them ... they follow each other over a cliff ... end result , death by following ....

Before SOC Tx - sessions of DFPP , + SOC Tx = 70+% SRV achievement ratio

As SOC Tx alone does not give a 50% chance of SRV for 1a .......  

Seems to me BigPharm has a presence in this discussion , or why the opposition to a proven idea of enhancing the possibility of SRV with combo DFPP & SOC Tx through a means not completely revolving around taking injections of poison and taking pills ?

Why is this idea met with such closed minds and blatant arrogance ?

could be..... BigPharm is in the house ....

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Avatar_m_tn
Why do you add personal insults to your arguments. Because people disagree with you does not make them lemmings. Is it possible that many people have studied and observed just as you have and come to different conclusions?

Most people just want to get cured, money is a motivator for drug companies. That's a good thing if you have a disease that so many people have. If the machine  really helps, I would imagine it will see more use. My doc told me that studies show that coffee can reduce or slow fibrosis, perhaps he is invested in sbux and just tells this lie to all of his patients. I don't see the desire for money and the desire to heal people as mutually exclusive.

- Dave
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Avatar_m_tn
My quote - "One thing is for sure, Americans tend to take a pill for everything.'

NYGirl response: "Well considering your body makes like a trillion hepc virus a day - you'll be needing this non-pill treatment for a long long long time.  I don't think anyone has to name call anyone for that point to be driven home.

My comment was not about pill taking for serious diseases, noting that even the Hemopurifier is meant as an adjunct treatment to be done with drug therapy.  My comment was about the general tendency to take a pill for everything.  I know people that want antianxiety and/or anti-depressant pills so they do not have to spend a month or two or three actually thinking about their problems and how to fix them.  I know people that take tylenol or Advil like candy, before they even have a headache, so they can avoid the hangover the next morning.  People take pills for everything, just to make everything easy.  That is the type of pill popping I was referring to and the type of mind-set that causes some to not believe the value of finding non-pill options.

But, if NYGirl is not concerned about the dangers of drug stacking and wants to go the pill only route as more adjunct treatments gets approved, that is her right and choice. I would suggest others should be more cautious when possible but that is only my opinion based on the science I have learned.

The only reason I posted on this thread was for those who were curious about alternative treatments.  The lack of exploration of the actual available information regarding filtration and adjunct therapies was very apparent, so I posted some actual references.

If FLGuy does not want to acknowledge the Japanese work or someone else wants to assume India is a third-world country as far as medical treatment, that is also their choices. As others have pointed out, it is a bit uninformed and closed-minded, but everyone has to pick their own path in life about how open or closed they are.
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But, if NYGirl is not concerned about the dangers of drug stacking and wants to go the pill only route as more adjunct

Dude i'm fine I did standard treatment and no extra waste of money experimental things and got SVR on the first try. Yes the drugs work and that my friend in the end is the primary factor. If I had not gotten SVR I would however have waited for the proven new meds to come out and taken them to be cured. I think if you want to play around with unproven things that is fine but at the end of the day there is really only one way to be cured right now and that is with the meds.

It doesn't make me a lemming to know that much. I'll stick with FLGuy and we can follow each other around like chickens with our heads cut off but at least after treatment we are  CURED a word that you will never get with hemopurifiers and such as they don't have the ability to ever do so and lowering VL isn't the goal in any way - the CURE is.
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PS FLGuy is like the least judgemental and most open minded person on this forum so.........I dont have any idea what point you are trying to make with all that.
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I am not trying to make anything.  It was FlGuy who said everything out there is from the company.  I posted some of the DFPP from Japan and the peer-reviewed references and he did not respond.  Just pointing out how he seems to not want to discuss what information is out there.  His choice, but it just seems he is so skeptical that he is fully dismissive.

I am very glad the drugs worked for you.  Congrats on that.

From the data I have heard, the current drug therapy is pretty toxic to alot of people, to the point some cannot even finish their therapy.  I also heard that only 30-50 percent of those that go through the SOC for type 1 are cured. So, when people seem very closed to discussing ways such individuals can be helped and dismiss possibilities without any exploration of the available information, it seems a bit unhelpful and shortsighted.
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And by the way, one day hopefully the hemopurifier will be approved for commercial use just like some of the other 65 drugs in the HEP C pipeline, including telepravir (which may be approved next year).

What I do not understand is that it seems some here are willing to take the attitude of wait until the next big adjunct drug is approved and take it, but do not take such a position for the Hemopurifier or VRAD.  they seem to immediately go to its a scam or it will never work.  Why would one not also take the position of try the hemopurifier once it is approved?

It is this apparent inconsistency in postion that I find a bit baffling and close-minded and why I think some are just locked into the drug-only mentality.
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This is why we are waiting to impatiently for the PIs to come out.  80% cure rates and shorter treatment courses........will change the course of hcv treatment forever (until the even better drugs come out).


Many people do not have time to play with experimental treatments and honestly I can't understand the GOAL of this whole thing - so what if you have 7million or 700,000 you are still infected and the virus will return again to it's original number. It just doesn't seem to be a prudent expenditure to me at all. It just is straight over my head why anyone would do such a thing.
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OK... you say that they use this machine in conjunction with current SOC, right? How many treatments do they recommend? Are they close enough together that a person could just plan on staying either in India or Japan until finished, or would it take multiple trips? Between travel, hotel, food and treatments...PLUS SOC... You are talking about A LOT OF MONEY HERE! Is there any projection as to when this kind of thing would be available in the US?

Diane
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I guess this is what tej is referring to and implies that the results we quite stunning:

Double-filtration plasmapheresis (DFPP) was approved in Japan in April 2008 for the retreatment of chronic hepatitis C patients with genotype 1b and high viral loads, whose hepatitis C virus was not eradicated by earlier IFN therapy or by pegylated IFN plus ribavirin (PEG-IFN/RBV) combination therapy. In this study, we assessed the early viral dynamics of 9 patients with non-sustained virological response to the combination therapy. The overall viral dynamics of DFPP plus IFN treatment with or without RBV for 4 weeks showed a reduction of > or =1 log in the viral load in 22% (2 of 9 patients), 55.6% (5/9), 77.8% (7/9) and 77.8% (7/9) at 24 h, 1, 2 and 4 weeks after the start of treatment. By contrast, DFPP plus consecutive intravenous IFN-beta for 4 weeks reduced the viral load by > or = 1 log in 33% (2/6), 50% (3/6), 83.3% (5/6) and 83.3% (5/6) at 24 h, 1, 2 and 4 weeks. The viral load declined by > or = 2 log in 50% (3/6) at 4 weeks after the start of treatment. DFPP plus consecutive intravenous IFN-beta for 4 weeks is a promising treatment for non-sustained virological response patients.

A few things jump out to me:

The reduction of viral load at those rates is that not much better than Peg IFN.  Now consider that the IFN-Beta was not only intravenous but consecutive (does that mean continuous)

2 logs after 4 weeks is not earth-shattering.  Many patints can do that by amping up the Peg.

Discusses only viral response in 4 weeks, not eventual SVR.

If the thing is so great, where are the trials in places like the U.S.?  It's a U.S. company.

Is the whole intent to book medi-vacations to India?

What does this mean?  "Earlier this year, we established "good manufacturing practice" (GMP) manufacturing of the Hemopurifier® in an FDA approved facility and now plan to initialize commercialization in India as we advance clinical strategies in the United States and the European Union."

The vast majority of people at this forum are in the U.S. and therefore the thing is unavailable.  Is the real intent to pump up the technology or something else?
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But who cares if your viral load is decreased by a log or two if you have no hope of being cured. Everyone knows VL is not what creates the amount of liver damage (or certainly I would not have been stage 3 at 568,000) and certainly even with increased dosages of peg/riba I did not clear until just somewhere before week 24 so I had something going on with harder than average strains / mutants whatever to destroy - so what difference does it make if you have a low VL anyhow?

I just honestly don't get it at all.

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Aaron pasted in a thread.  In that thread I referenced a comment that HR made a couple of years ago.  I can't find his comment but I recall that he thought that the concept had merit in principle. But, (I'm a little iffy here) he was concerned about where the plumbing attachment was and where the purifier intervened.  I think his point was that effectiveness would be a point (internally) just before the liver so that the continually infected blood would be lessened before it got there.  

Somehere I saw a picture of the thing.  It looked like the filter element that is between my home water supply and the refrigerator water dispenser.
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Oh man that is scary!!!!!!!!!!  Do you have to stay on this thing constantly so it keeps clearing the blood - I couldn't do that, no way.

Good luck to those who can do it they are more brave than me.
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The purifier is not constant. Something like 5 or 6 sessions.  The consecutive (or continuous) applies to the IFN intravenous.  But that's not real clear either.  Either way, it's being attached to some things for extended periods.
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I am so glad that you got a SVR and no longer have worry about HCV for yourself.
I went through the whole treatment thing twice. It failed.

I try the best I can to make rational choices but it was not a rational choice that I made
when I agreed to undergo treatment.
AND I AM NOT saying that just because it did not work for me.
If I had properly weighed the risk / reward ratio of undergoing the treatment.
The correct answer would have been to do nothing and hope for the best.
The SVR for persons with my genotype  were under 50% plus the long term effects of the INF/ REB are still unknown, plus the fact that my wife could not get pregnant when I was undergoing treatment forced us to but off starting a family until it was too late.
I did not factor in the possibility of new treatments in the future that would have had a higher SVR. I also did not  factor in the fact that the chances of me ever getting a successful treatment that involves Interferon are now decreased because I underwent the treatment, ( obviously the HCV in my body  now are more likely to resist treatment than before because all the viruses that were easy to get rid of, were gotten rid of in the treatment. so now I am infected with the descendants of the more difficult to treat viruses) (evolution 101).
If I had weighed all that against the chances of my HCV causing liver problems some time before the age of my normal life expectancy.
Then the rational choose would have been to do nothing.
If asked by someone that was considering going through treatment I would stress that they do a Risk / Reward  analysis of their own.  And remember that the Doctors and Big Pharma only make $$$ if they choose to undergo the treatment.
I believe that most people that have HCV should not undergo the treatment as it is now.
But everyone's risk / reward analysis would be different.
If AEMD's filter helps, then it would increase the number of HVC pos people that should try the treatment. Thats all.  
If one weighs the risk/ reward ratio of fully testing the Hepafilter against the cost of trying to develop a new anti-viral drug. Then it is a no brainier. Testing the filter is much cheaper. Just on that fact alone, do you really think that the best way to find a 99%  effective cure for HCV is for all of us to put all of our faith and hope into Big Pharma?
The same companies that have been working on it for so many years and spent so much on research and STILL do have a treatment that makes logical sense for most people to undergo?
Maybe Viral load does not mater at all.
But I would still be happy if my viral load were zero.
Bruce



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Well spoken ... seems this issue will be never ending , like many other challenges in our lives.. apparently solid research and proof does not always satisfy some folks or the FDA.

Non professional's, folks not working in the industry, but giving very negative opinions instead of adding productively to the question being researched, (what we are here for)  instead, blindly criticizing without researching the topic, not productive ... but hey that's life eh, happens every day .... we are all entitled to our own opinion's, just because I don't accept yours or you don't accept mine ..

It would be a very boring world if we all thought exactly the same way !! hmmm maybe big brother wants us to be like that ??

We all have to take responsibility for our actions in life.

Big Pharm has not found the answer yet and we sure don't know if they ever will ...

What we do know is they will continue to push drugs that have less than a 50% chance of success rate .... with side effects that are unknown .... using a toxic and possibly very harmful drug ... who's action's on the virus and our body's are not fully understood.

And make big $$$ doing it this way.

Hooked up to nothing more in concept than a dialysis machine, reducing the viral load and  increasing the chance of SVR to almost 80% while using the SOC Tx approved at this time ....

What is so hard to understand ? Why won't the FDA help relieve our pain ? Why DO these tests have to be done overseas ?? The proof of increasing the chance for SVR has been documented for years in Japan. Why can't we bring this technology home ?

Bruce, so very sorry to hear your family planning was derailed because of this ...

Ya , maybe viral load is not important .... I also would be so very happy as well if my viral load was 0.000 ....  


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I am not for or against this machine personally. but the information provided does not seem completely clear. Also I notice that the supporters of this machine are somehow hinting that the machine can bring viral load to 0 or be used without current therapy. I don't see where the designers of the machine claim anything of the sort. Conjuncture or false implications in my opinion makes people more skeptical, not more open to listening. Let's stick to what the machine claims to be capable of.

Does this machine claim to bring your viral load to 0? It doesn't seem to be suggesting that or suggesting that it should be used as maintenance, but as an adjunct to traditional therapy. We all know that the current therapies can be toxic, but they can also work for a lot of people. if you have genotype 2 or 3 you have an 80 percent chance of svr with the current meds. the new meds increase the odds for geno 1 to around 70 percent, that's a huge improvment over the current 45 percent for geno 1.

The question at this point is whether the machine increases the chance of svr as is the claim. If it does, then it would be great to be used in addition to therapy, and I would be all for it.

I also don't get how the company trying to make money on this machine is any different then any big business. Just because they don't have the money that the pharmaceutical companies have doesn't mean that their motivation isn't financial. Does that mean that they don't genuinely believe the machine has potential, again the money making and the contribution to the eradication of the disease don't need to be exclusive of each other.

I don't get how the control group was used in the study they did, it doesn't say they were randomized into different arms, it said so many people choose to use the machine. In all studies it is important to look at the controls and the methods to see if they really show a difference between the control group and the new drug or therapy group. If they are not randomized from the same pool of people with similar disease characteristics they are meaningless. The information provided does not make that clear to me. Most providers of new drugs and therapies will try to skew results to back up their claims. it is our job in my opinion to scrutinize them and decide what is really and what is "puffing" !

There are dangers to cleaning the blood and dialysis, just as there are dangers to the current meds.  My father died from an infection from repeated dialysis. Infections and issues are not uncommon with people on dialysis.

Ruffus, I am sorry that the current therapy did  not work for you and caused problems for your health. I have never heard of evolution 101, what is that? I assume you are saying you have a resistant variant, but everything I have read, and the ability for many people to treat numerous times and eventually svr suggests that inf and riba do not cause long term resistance. it could be that your genetics were not helping you in attaining svr. the direct acting drugs which are being developed now would probably have a much better chance. I hope you will try again even if it is hard on you.

Look at the advancements in hiv drugs, the effectiveness of these drugs is truly amazing and has helped with the development of new types of drugs for hcv and other viruses.

If the machine really works, why the heck not use it, but certainly we all know that even a few virons can turn into thousand or millions very quickly, therefore many people relapse.

You have to get rid of the disease completely to svr, not bring it to a low level. The claim of the machine is that it will bring you to a lower level where those toxic drugs can work better, not that anyone should not use the current toxic drugs until there is something better.

- Dave


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"apparently solid research and proof does not always satisfy some folks or the FDA"

Are you referring to the 60 patient study that you referenced or the 9 patient study that I posted?  Those are your definition of solid reseach and proof?

Why doesn't AEMD mount full scale independent tests like other new drugs and devices?

"What we do know is they will continue to push drugs that have less than a 50% chance of success rate .... with side effects that are unknown .... using a toxic and possibly very harmful drug ... who's action's on the virus and our body's are not fully understood. "

Isn't AEMD's plan to combine their device with those toxic drugs? Where is the gain there?

"Why DO these tests have to be done overseas ?"

Good question.  Why doesn't AEMD launch trials and the concept in the US.

I'm certainly not opposed to the investigation of new drugs and devices.  I just can't figure out why AEMD will not proceed.  Some good advances have been taking place in HCV treatment over the past 5 years or more.  Can't figure out why AEMD will not get into the mix if the product is so good.  There is no reason that AEMD will not hold it's device up to investigative scrutiny. Is there?
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Maybe AEMD owns stock in the airlines industry and the hotel industry.
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( obviously the HCV in my body  now are more likely to resist treatment than before because all the viruses that were easy to get rid of, were gotten rid of in the treatment. so now I am infected with the descendants of the more difficult to treat viruses) (evolution 101).

Look at Andiamo who had failed conventional treatment like ten times but then added telapravir and has been SVR for years now.  Evo 101 is not so simplistic any longer at all with the advent of the PIs being added on board.
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The real question is simple.  Would a person with type 1 do a week of blood filtration (6 hrs on, 6 hrs off) if it meant that their odds of reaching SVR from SOC drug therapy increased from 40-50% to 80-90%?

It is this type of increased rate of success that might well be possible from conducting blood filtration during the first week of starting the drug therapy.  We shall see soon enough.

And as to FLGuy's question about why it has not been done in the US yet?  Well, I suspect you know the answer.  But for others that don't, it is because India is a practicioner-driver market and it is significantly cheaper to do the testing necessary to gain acceptance.  So, for very small companies, it is far smarter to start there.

And FYI, lots of clinicals are being done there, even by large pharma companies.  And Duke University is opening a 60-bad facility for clinical studies at Medanta, where Aethlon is starting their clincal trial this fall.
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NYGirl, as per your comment:

"just honestly don't get it at all."

If you did any rerading on the subject prior to posting all your assessments, you would have found the following in Aethlon's latest news release:

"A clinical goal of the Aethlon-Medicity study will be to demonstrate that the Hemopurifier® is able to accelerate the benefit of HCV standard of care (SOC) drug regimens. Therapeutic filtration at the outset of SOC improves early virus reduction kinetics to levels associated with that of patients most likely to achieve a sustained viral response, which is the goal of HCV therapy. Additionally, lower quantities of HCV in circulation at the outset of SOC correlate with increased cure rates."

and

"In addition to monitoring for improved acceleration of viral load reduction at the outset of SOC, another primary endpoint will focus on rapid viralogic response (RVR) which is defined as undetectable viral load 30 days after SOC initiation. On average, approximately 15% of patients who initiate SOC therapy achieve a RVR.  Yet, those able to achieve a RVR have a greater than 88% likelihood of achieving a sustained viralogic response.

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It will be interesting to see the continued results. India is moving very quickly in the most technical fields. More and more technical work is being moved to india as it is cheaper and easier for large companies to do business there, and there are plenty of well educated people there, most of them came to the US for education.

People from india come to the us and get a great education and often aren't permitted to stay, work and live here. As bill gates told congress, we should be providing visas to these people and reaping the benefits of the education they were provided. He believes this will create and provide more jobs for all of us and a better educated society, not take away jobs as some fear.

Sadly our children in the us are being provided poorer and poorer education and are less prepared for what higher education has to offer, and the better paying and more technical jobs that are available as a result. Go look in a university or college classroom for the medical and technical fields and see who is predominately taking those classes.

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For me ..I'd rather add 1 week of filtration before SOC Tx to have the chance to achieve a 70 - 80 % SVR rate , .... than add another drug to the regime that would give the same % of chance for SVR...  

We know that drugs and the doctors pushing them make allot of $$$$ from these Tx , but if you check developing nations ... the same drugs for the same Tx are much less expensive , 1/2 price or less ... How can that be ?

If the focus is on making $$ and not on healing ... this pretty much explains why non drug related medical devices have such a hard time in the U.S. .... and why the same drugs in a third world country are 1/2 the price or less.

Japan has been using DFPP for several years now ... Why does the FDA not help to make a device like this available to to us here in the states ??

Only one answer I can think of BigPharm , drugs = Big $$$$

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I had 12 or 13 pints of blood removed through phlebotomy prior to starting treatment.  That's a lot of virus reduced from my blood.  I did not RVR and my viral load was a million plus the day after my last phlebotomy.  That's how fast the virus replicates so I can't see how filtrating the hepc virus from the blood will enhance the the current standard of care.  Viral load reduction has nothing to due with how the body will react to interferon and ribavirin.  Many people with low viral loads do not achieve SVR.  Big Pham does not dictate whether or not hemopurifiers should be introduced as part of the standard of care.  Overall effectiveness of any adjunct to SOC is the key and to date there is no solid clinical data to support purifying the blood will produces higher rates of SVR.

Trinity
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I read another article on the device recently.  Apparently AEMD has deceided to hedge its bets a little bit.  Realizing that investor capital for device of this type is in short supply  they are proceeding with a newer greeen initiative.  They will be providing the devices, with slighly adjusted elements to Jiffy Lube and The Pep Boys.  Rather than changiing out an auto's oil supply, they will simply clean the oil and put it back into the automobiles.  Saves on disposal, replacement oil and related transportation costs.  It's a brilliant move for which they will be granted  a whole batch of green dollars.  What's more, the effluent extracted from the used filter will be re-purposed for the same purposes as whale oil which is the sensual oil line for KY Jelly Sensual Partners Oil Products..  So, save the environment, save the whales, save Manny, Moe and Jack, conserve natural resources and bring countless couples to climax.  Got to love inginuity. The stock is expected to pop on the news when markets open on Tuesday,
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Wow Trinity4  ! ! 12 - 13 pints removed before Tx ... ... it's a pretty amazing event you are still here .......  there are only apx. 10 pints of blood in an adult human ! !

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_pints_of_blood_does_the_average_human_body_contain

Trinity's answer and Flguy's , folks here we go again ... completely counter productive ... and very sorry to add , both are asinine response's.

The FDA does have to approve  medical devices used in the country.

http://www.fda.gov/medicaldevices/productsandmedicalprocedures/deviceapprovalsandclearances/default.htm

Careful who you trust people ! !

BigPharma must be in this house .... anyone who would not even consider anything other than toxic drugs for Tx ..... and belittle hope for the future development, or support the existing non toxic solutions
must be .... associated with a drug company as an investor or ??

As DFPP is already tested, tried and proven effective in conjunction with SOC Tx of raising the SVR rate to 70-80% ..... could it be that the drug manufactures and the doctors here in the states just don't want to share in the $$ rewards ??

Who knows, but folks like FlGuy, Trinity4 , NYGirl are all classic examples of someone trying to manipulate people here to their predetermined ends ...

Be very careful who you trust ... we all have to take responsibilities for our actions, before you make up your mind about any Tx related subject .... research , research again,  ask questions ,  weigh the risk to reward .

It's your body .... The drug companies and doctors do end up with your hard earned $$  Do you think they really care about you ?

Choose wisely and don't trust only what you read in some forum ... to convince you what is right for you ! !



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I don't think Trinity had all the blood removed at the same time, that would be my assumption, but I could be wrong!

Your rant about big pharm and pretending that some how in india that they are not looking to make money on medical treatment and drugs, orr that your machine that is looking for investors is not looking to make money is pretty shortsighted in my opinion. This whole thread is getting old. Some of the other people in your little group seem to make intelligent arguments, but you just use insults and keep repeating the same thing over and over. Personally I think your arguments hurt your cause. You accuse people of using fear to manipulate, but that is exactly what you keep doing. By the way, we are mostly not investors in drugs or a machine as you are here, we are just sick people trying to get well.

I guess we have given this enough time on the forum though, and perhaps that is the point.
I think I will leave this one alone for good. It's lost is value to me personally.


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"Wow Trinity4  ! ! 12 - 13 pints removed before Tx ... ... it's a pretty amazing event you are still here .......  there are only apx. 10 pints of blood in an adult human ! ! "

Obviously you know nothing about phlebotomy or would not have made that preposterous statement which was obviously nothing more than an attempt to diffuse the fact that temporary viral load reduction has nothing to do with how the body reacts to interferon and ribavirin.  

You accuse me of manipulation?  I have no vested interested in your contraption.  The lack of solid fact about hemopurification speaks for itself and I stand to gain nothing by promoting DFPP.  How about you?

"Trinity's answer and Flguy's , folks here we go again ... completely counter productive ... and very sorry to add , both are asinine response's."

Really?  Well that comment certainly follow suit with most of your asinine, berating remarks about people who actually know what their talking about and adds validity to our belief about you which is wonderfully ironic because you made the remark:

"Be very careful who you trust"

Trinity

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Personally, I think Aaron57 couldn’t have said it better:

“Choose wisely and don't trust only what you read in some forum ... to convince you what is right for you ! !”

Wise words to all.

--Bill
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You haven't answered the questions, have you?
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I had to go back to the very beginning of this discussion to find your (phlebotomy) blood letting reference ..

Second post in this discussion, FLGuy had something to say about this:
" Blood-letting of about 5.6 liters will resolve the HCV.  However, there are other treatments available with produce a cure in which the patient lives."

Sorry , I see now that you let 12 - 13 pints in 3 months time . You are correct to say i know very little about this practice ... when I first came across this approach and saw what I considered a middle ages approach for treatment of , what I'm not sure, I immediately moved on with my studies to more modern approaches to HCV Tx.

Blood letting conjured up images of witch doctors, voodoo etc ...

Trinity, In no possible way can your blood letting approach be compared to a modern day filtration device for reducing viral load before starting Tx, again,

DFPP is a proven therapy in conjunction with SOC to boost our chance for SVR with up to 80% effective rates , without stacking more drugs on top of the already toxic mix of SOC.

Time will tell if the HP device is effective or not , inquiring minds only want to know ... I am not in any way associated to any manufacturer or doctor or any other Tx related business.

I read NYGirls expenses for her Tx , in a different post she says ..... "My treatment cost approximately $200k with all of the extra add on drugs and tests that I needed to complete it.
Go figure can't even afford hamburger to go with the helper."

If I am suspicious of drug manufactures and doctors whose deep pockets are a result of these practices , and, apparently their intentions of getting deeper pockets through promoting only these very expensive drugs and not opening up to other possibilities , well, that's just the way I am.

FYI Taiwan is also involved in clinical trials of DFPP for their citizens at 6 facilities ... India starts clinical trials next week for the HP device ... Japan already approves and is using DFPP.

One of my question's in life is .... in  5,10, 20 or 30 yrs. from now , what will the patients and practitioners say when they look back at this time in history and the Tx options we are using & what will be their comments ? A meaningless question at this time for those of us who still carry a viral load above 0.000,,,,, food for thought none the less.

Again , If you are dealing with this virus, research, study, ask questions, weigh risk vs. reward etc. etc.

There are many very personal considerations before you decide to Tx again or for the first time.

Don't make your personal choice based on someone's post in some forum !!

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In Rodney Kings words "why cant we all just get along"
It seems crazy to be so upset when presented with "strange" ideas.  no one is making anyone do anything.  I dont even know why I'm piping in, except I still like to see what might be going on to help cure this virus from causing more suffering.
Its OK to talk about different ideas.  
I'm pretty scared myself with no money, no good idea on how I'm going to deal with this.  I just hope I can and am waiting until I have to and have the opportunity to.
I wish everyone a good outcome.
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What are your questions ?

Here's the link to allot of real information ,,,  for the folks who want to read and decide for themselves about the DFPP virus removal tool and it's positive 80% SVR results :

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=DFPP+hcv+treatment+japan&btnG=Search&as_sdt=2000&as_ylo=&as_vis=1

To the self proclaimed experts here : folks come here are looking for information ;

I'm no expert like you guy's .... but, I would think nobody here is looking for negative responses while information gathering about this virus ...

To those of you who came here like myself , on a quest for information and ended up in the negativity generated from this subject ,, by some of the so called experts here,  and , from my responses to those self proclaimed experts here ,,,, and in their responses back to me and others ,,,,,,,,,,,,

I am sorry ! ! This is not what I came here for. Heat of the moment ,,,, got the better of me ,,,, sorry,,,,, closed minded people and their negative uninformed input do that to me ,,,,,

I do apologize to those on the same information gathering mission as myself ...

I wish all the best on their individual journey's and, hopefully SVR , from this very nasty virus.





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For as much as you claim phlebotomy is archaic, to date it is actually the most effective way of chelating excess iron from the blood.  If the DFPP can filter and reduce something as minuscule as virions from the blood,  I find it interesting there is no mention of it used for reducing iron overload in the blood for those who suffer from hemochromatosis or PCT.  Iron molecules are much larger than virions and because DFPP is supposedly a superior filtering system one would think it possible but apparently not so when it comes to something as basic as iron reduction I suppose we'll just have to remain in the dark ages huh?

Trinity
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With some time and hopefully more mainstream acceptance in new methods of helping to clear the virus, maybe the manufacturers will get around to filtration of less deadly problems like PCT......  

For now,  I'm happy if they stick with the research like HCV, HIV, H5N1 , Cancer etc....

With the lack of acceptance or support , even though one model of filtration, DFPP has proven it's effectiveness , and closed minds ....

it may take a while before PCT or Hemochromatosis makes it on their list of objectives ....


by Trinity4 , Jul 22, 2010 02:57PM
Case in point copyman.  I had weekly phlebotomy sessions (1 pint) for 3 months prior to starting treatment.  Slow responder.....relapser.  Didn't do much for me except put the PCT in remission.

To: Forgot something
At least that is how I think it works. So if a person could even reduce their viral load in there blood by 1% then
would that not decrease the odds of one of the losely made copies of the virus becoming the new mutant strain?
Of coarse if that is true then Blood letting would likely reduce the viral load in the blood by 1%.

To answer your question, the hepatitis C virus is capable of replicating a trillion virons a day. So it would be possible to have the same viral load the next day after one of these treatments or blood letting.


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For the record, PCT is not less deadly than Hepc.  If PCT is not treated, liver fibrosis and cirrhosis will occur at a much more accelerated rate than it does in someone who has hepc. You don't even have to have hepc for this to occur.  It is due to the toxic effects of iron overload in the liver.  Just a little tidbit of info to add to your extensive research.

Trinity  
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I am another like Trinity and had to had phlebotomy's before starting TX due to PCT.  As Trin knows, not only does your liver damage accelerate but it causes awful blisters on the hands that turn them into a ground meat looking mess. until you remove a pint of blood weekly that makes  you anemic.

Don't know who you are referring to BUT::::many people here are very informed.
...............I am sorry ! ! This is not what I came here for. Heat of the moment ,,,, got the better of me ,,,, sorry,,,,, closed minded people and their negative uninformed input do that to me ,,,,, ...........................

I think I will steer clear of the "time machine"

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Interesting article to show the adjunct potential and diversity of blood filtration.

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/news-220543-101-treatment-may-end-deadly-tick-bite-threat.html
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I am sorry ! ! This is not what I came here for. Heat of the moment ,,,, got the better of me ,,,, sorry,,,,, closed minded people and their negative uninformed input do that to me ,,,,, "

Thank you for the apology.  As you now see, no one in here is closed minded they are only interested in scientific things that actually are based in reality and will help cure or slow the progression of HCV and its effects.

Wastes of time and money just aren't high on the priority list.
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Your welcome for my apology , however ,

I completely disagree with you on the closed minded aspect of some people in the forum.

Many people here are closed minded, and, if disagreed with on their self proclaimed expert view ...  like to dish it out, but, it seems can't take it.

Obviously you did not follow the links supplied on the scientific reports showing the "reality" and great success of 80% with SOC for 1a using the DFPP.,,,,,,,,,,

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=DFPP+hcv+treatment+japan&btnG=Search&as_sdt=2000&as_ylo=&as_vis=1


In a different thread you said about your treatment ....
"My treatment cost approximately $200k with all of the extra add on drugs and tests that I needed to complete it.
Go figure can't even afford hamburger to go with the helper."

$200,000 dollars ?

From me to you nygirl,

To quote a great line, from the Paul Newman movie , Cool Hand Luke... ,when the warden was giving PN a very hard time, after he got caught breaking out of the chain gang prison for the second time ....

The warden says to the chain gang inmates:

"What we have here people is a failure to communicate, some folks you just can't reach !"


You spend $200k yourself ,,,,, Two Hundred Thousand Dollars ,,,,,

and refuse to open your mind about a device,,,,,, that is proven to be effective, 80% SVR,  and, reduces the cost of Tx ,,,,,,,


People, what we have here is a failure to communicate .....



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Yes 200k for something that works to cure a disease and stop liver damage progression compared to free for something that does nothing well.............we can see who got that deal pretty easily.

People, what we have here is a failure to communicate ....."

We have been communicating but apparently you dont speak New Yawk.  Good luck to you with the thingamajiggie - but personally I think leeches are cheaper.

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Yeah and the warden had Luke did a useless hole, cover it back up and then dig another useless hole.  Didn't change Luke's attitude one little bit did it?

So for the sake of the $ and not humanity big pharma and most of the world's medical community is not interested in the DFPP machine.  Rubbish!!   The world's top liver heads would be all over it if it showed any promise.  AMED is digging useless holes.

Trinity
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Here are the questions AGAIN.  I guess you can ignore them AGAIN.  The stuff in quote is what you said.  The stuff ending with question marks are I guess what you would call questions.

"apparently solid research and proof does not always satisfy some folks or the FDA"

Are you referring to the 60 patient study that you referenced or the 9 patient study that I posted?  Those are your definition of solid reseach and proof?

Why doesn't AEMD mount full scale independent tests like other new drugs and devices?

"What we do know is they will continue to push drugs that have less than a 50% chance of success rate .... with side effects that are unknown .... using a toxic and possibly very harmful drug ... who's action's on the virus and our body's are not fully understood. "

Isn't AEMD's plan to combine their device with those toxic drugs? Where is the gain there?

"Why DO these tests have to be done overseas ?"

Good question.  Why doesn't AEMD launch trials and the concept in the US?

I'm certainly not opposed to the investigation of new drugs and devices.  I just can't figure out why AEMD will not proceed.  Some good advances have been taking place in HCV treatment over the past 5 years or more.  Can't figure out why AEMD will not get into the mix if the product is so good.  There is no reason that AEMD will not hold it's device up to investigative scrutiny. Is there?

and one more...

"And make big $$$ doing it this way"

From Aethlons website.....now plan to initialize commercialization in India..

So they are doing this for the good of humanity out of altruisitc motivation? Get real.


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In referrence to your comment:
Look at Andiamo who had failed conventional treatment like ten times but then added telapravir and has been SVR for years now.  Evo 101 is not so simplistic any longer at all with the advent of the PIs being added on board.

I am happy for Andiamo,
Thats  because even though he went through the INF/ PEG treatment many times and failed he still got a SVR.
Those first treatments failed because 99% of the remaining viruses in his body after the first treatment were the offspring of the viruses that figured out how to survive the treatment.
Lucky for him those same viruses all died before  any of them figured out how to ivade the treatment when Telapravir was added to the mix.
He is lucky. If he had had 90% of all the viruses physically removed by having their proteins stuck to the affinity agents in AEMDs blood filter. Then he would NOT have had to have been so luck to get the SVR that he did.
But I am happy to know that Andiamo is a very lucky man. (somebody has got to win the lottery).
If that treatment  with Telapravir had failed he would have had to just keep stacking the drugs over and over again until he died or got lucky.
Evolution 101 is how life works !!
And no number of PIs that big Phara can produce will change that!

I really do not understand how it is that you can not at least understand my argument?

I exaggerated my beliefs to try to make a piont.
(I am sure that Andiamo did
not have to be as lucky as a lottery winner to get the SVR that he did.)
But you seem to be the one person here that really does not get it.
If I could convince you that the idea COULD have merit then I thick I could convince anybody. Sense I first posted the question I am think more and more that it does have merit.

Do you believe that the drugs that pharma produce are like magic.?
Like those techniques used by witch doctors?
That is not meant as an insult!
Do you?
My grandmother did. And I still love her.

Do you understand what Darwin was talking about?
My grandmother did not believe in any of that crap. and I still love her.

I just reread all the responses to my question that started this whole thing.
I still do not have my question answered.
If the AEMD filter reduces the number of virus copies in the blood?
(I know the HCV virus is produced in the liver but it does travel in the blood)
Then would it not by definition reduce the chances of a HCV virus
that is able to invade what ever method the INF/PEG use to rid the body of the virus. (the fact that the virus can reproduce very quickly does not matter as long as it is not reproducing copies that are resistant to the INF/PEG treatment at an increased level and it will not do that unless put under evolutionary pressure to do so)

I think that you are misled into thinking that Viral loads mean nothing.
It is true that the raw numbers mean nothing if taken out of context.
The number of viruses that are in ones body that are resistant to INF/Peg drugs DO MEAN A LOT !  and the virus level at the beginning of the treatment is only important because the larger the number the greater the chances are that there are a considerable number that are INF/PEG resistant. If the filter lowers that number then it will also lower the number resistant to the the INF/PEG treatment.
SO that would make it a numbers game.
Read up on how Evolution works.
Read up on Game theory.
Unless somebody gives me a good reason to believe other wise then I am going to believe that HCV virus must act in the same way that all other life known  on planet earth acts. (with the exception of Bolivian spungalitis, (MAD cow))  
I was really not looking for a back and forth argument about
who is stupider than who.
To settle that. I AM THE IDIOT ! That is why I asked the question.
Can someone please help this idiot out and let me know if I am missing something?



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Why don't you ask your hepatologist what role DFPP therapy can have in increasing your chances of SVR by reducing viral load.  I can recommend a few world renowned hepatologists if you'd like.

Trinity
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And no number of PIs that big Phara can produce will change that! "

Oh boy well then good luck to you.
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Hi zoom.
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Is this available now?  I have a friend that SOC has not worked for her and she is ready to try anything.  Also could you tell me the cost?   Thanks
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Which big pharma company is going to come up with a pill that changes the way evolution works.
Thanks for wishing me good luck. We all need it.

To Trinity4:  I tried to ask a hepatologist what role DFPP therapy or AEMDs filter would play. But did you ever get a doctor to ever give their opinion on anything? They always just play it by the book so they do not get sued if they were to wrong about something they said. They just tell me to wait until the FDA approves something and until then I should just be patient. So basically they tell me to sit down and shut up because I am just a stupid factory worker and am not qualified to
have an opinion about such things and that it would be best if I did not think to much about it. . They tell me to pray to Big Pharma and hope that they will save me.
Are they correct? Is that what I should do?

Anybody have any thought about my question about how the HCV virus would change under evolutionary pressure caused by a change in its design space that would be caused the day a person starts INF/ Peg treatment?

Anybody? Anybody?
Is there a reason that the AEMD filer would not help by lowering
the number of possible copies of INF/PEG resistant stains?
Anybody?

To GSDgirl: I do believe that it is avialable now at the Metroclinic in Bombay, India. (Mumbia, India)
I can try to find out how much it costs. If you were email AEMD maybe you can haggle over the cost. IDNK but I was in India for 3 months and they Haggle over the cost of everything so I would not be surprised if Medical treatment are the same. I know one can get 20% off the price of IVF treatment just by asking.

To oooreally: I thought they burnt all the witches. How did you manage to slip though?




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As a matter of fact I had one of the best hepatologists in the country, attends the liver meetings all over the world, stays on top of all the latest treatments and doesn't give a rats patoot about FDA approval.  Doesn't pull any punches and shoots straight from the hip. Sorry to say, he never brought up the hemopurifer.  

I must say there wasn't a sign over his door saying:  This Way To See The Great Egress

Trinity
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I think that the reason that it is being test in India is because AEMD does not have the kind of capitol that is required to do it in the USA.

And I think that aurguement that the Filter can not possibility work because if it did
then big Pharma would have bought the company by now is not a very strong argument.  When Apple Computer was just get started many investors believed that home computers would NEVER be economically viable because if they were then they would have been produced and marketed by IBM by now.
Do you back when that was the argument against buying Apple computer stock?
I am not saying that AEMD is going to be the Apple computer of HIV and HCV treatment. But please do not make the mistake of believing that just because Big Pharma is not interested, is Proof that it does not work.
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I so glad to hear somebody has a great Doctor. My Doctor was probably a good guy but IDNK because he looked so overworked that I seen him I would ask HIM how he was feeling. He had no time for any of my questions. And I understand.

Could you possibly ask our doctor my question?
Is it possible that he never heard of AEMD?
If that is the case then I think somebody should go to India just to make sure this company really exists.
If AEMD is really just a elaborate fraud then I will feel like **** for defending it.
AEMD has a list of Doctors and scientists on there ''Research board''  posted on their website AEMD.com. If your Doctor does not have an opinion about the filter
then ask him if he recognizes any of the names on the list and if he can find out if these Doctors really do consulting for AEMD.
I think that the theory behind the Filter is sound but first I should make sure that the company really exists. I lost money investing in ENRON and a little in Global Crossing so I know the value of skepticism.  
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That's what I was thinking as well.  The question was somewhat rehtorical.  Good ideas, not just products, eventually "find a way".  The subtle point that I was making was that the concept has been out there for several years and has not yet "found a way".  I don't always buy the argument that "big pharma" is a conspiracy against the little guy.  Sort of similar to the idea that some company out there has solved the problem of perpetual motion and that "big oil" has subverted and colluded to keep the idea buried.

There is a doc who posts here rarely and commented on the HemoRazzmataaz.  He actually thought the concept had merit.  (I can't find his post on the subject). The problem was the plumbing attachment to the patient.  As you know, the virus is very adept at replicating.  I think his issue, or comment, was that unless the plumbing occurs right in front (maybe right behind) the liver the overall effect is nominal.  Wish I could find that post.

To your example, were the "Steves" that different from Bill G? And, didn't Apple and MSFT  both "find a way"?
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Yes, hindsight  is 20/20. The ideas that do end up finding the way always sound so logical and after they are common place everybody asks themselves 'Why did I not think of that"? But the ideas that do not make it
just fade away and everybody says that they know that the guy that had that idea was a nut job.

I wonder why the doctor thought that the filter had to be hooked up right to the liver?
Ones whole blood supply goes through a main artery every 15-20 minute
And the virus does not replicate in the blood.
I think that the company is a real company.
It is hard to imagine going public ten years ago and still
not being exposed if they were a scam. But then again Madeoff made off with a lot of investor $ for a long time.
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I don't thinks it's necessarily a scam either.  It's a product looking for a market and to elbow into the U.S. market is expensive and it appears that they bleed money without the benefit of a a financial purifier. The point that I'm trying to make is that, regardless of the studies referenced or the boasting of the company, it's not yet proven.  I guess that the reason that the market is Japan and India is that the AEMD needs a footing.  More importantly. it needs money before they can expect to bring it to the "show".
Yeah, wish I could find that post. It made sense to me even though body plumbing is certainly not my forte.
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Found it!

Somewhere in this thread:

Pretty good for an old guy to remember a 3-year old post !!!!

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Hepatitis-C/Who-in-NYC-has-a-Hemo-Modulator/show/405384?personal_page_id=862927#post_2371053
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your first post in response to Ruffuss's question was:

by FlGuy , Jul 21, 2010 08:43AM

Blood-letting of about 5.6 liters will resolve the HCV.  However, there are other treatments available with produce a cure in which the patient lives.

Good for you to have opened up your thinking a bit & giving link to the Energex post of 3 years ago ... !

AEMD is not doing trials or Tx in Japan , they start their clinical trials in India this month.

In Japan, DFPP is approved and successful in up to 80% of patients, the Japanese Govt. is helping patients to pay the bills when they choose to use this Tx regime.

States wise , Energex Systems has their non drug UV blood cleaning system ImmunoModulator . ( As FLGuy directed us all to )


The point is, contrary to NYGirls view of "viral load does not mean a darn thing" ,

Viral reduction at the beginning SOC Tx seems to be an effective approach for increasing the possibility of attaining SVR from 35-50% with INF + Riba alone to apx. 80% ,,, without adding any more drugs .


The DFPP approach is new , only approved in 2008 in Japan, it appears to do just as Ruffuss's question was posed, and is suggesting at the onset of this thread ....

Reducing the viral load at the beginning of SOC Tx also seems to reduce the chances of viral mutation that the virus is capable of, allowing INF+Riba to do it's job (although until now nobody can explain exactly how this happens) and achieve a much higher SVR ratio than with INF + Riba alone .


We should always get at least a second opinion if not more , when dealing with doctors ...

Doctors call their business's , even after many years of school and how ever many years they have been in business :

"Practicing" medicine

Folks, do your homework before making your personal choice. Don't just depend on what someone writes in some forum !



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I didn't ignore your questions, thought all the info was right in front of you, self-evident.

Your questions :

1) Are you referring to the 60 patient study that you referenced or the 9 patient study that I posted?  Those are your definition of solid reseach and proof?

Actually there is more than 100 english references I refereed you to , so yes. The most important fact is that Japanese Govt, gives financial support to their citizens who use the DFPP which was approved for HCV Tx in 2008.

If you can read Japanese you'll find thousands of references to this machine ,however that I doubt.

2) Why doesn't AEMD mount full scale independent tests like other new drugs and devices?

I'm not affiliated with AEMD , I have no idea why not ...

3) Isn't AEMD's plan to combine their device with those toxic drugs? Where is the gain there?

The gain is , if it is a success in trials like DFPP , not layering another drug on top of the SOC to achieve a high SVR ratio.

4) And make big $$$ doing it this way

Nothing in this world is free ... more power to them .


To the contributors of their valuable closed minded opinions here :

HCV virus Tx has only made small steps forward in treatment protocols in the last few years with the introduction of PI's into clinical trials ,

True or not ? This because why ?

Can you explain how INF works for some but not all ? Not likely as it's not understood yet.

For well over 15yrs. starting from the early 90's the only new introduction to the HCV Tx protocol was the Pegelated type of INF.

Recently with the industries realization of billions of $$ to made made in the next 10 yrs or more., thankfully there are steps forward in research of new protocols , PI's + we'll see what the future brings.

To discount new technology, before it has a chance to prove or disprove itself as an effective agent .......

I don't get it , how is it some of you folks think you know it all, when the doctors and scientists freely admit they don't know ??

Why would anyone want to close there mind to new technology before it could be proved or disproved?

DFPP is already and only being practiced over seas, Why only in Japan and Taiwan? I don't know the answer , it's used successfully in more ways than treating HCV as well ....
It appears those folks may well be more forward looking than the folks here ....


HemoPurifier, we'll have to wait and see what the results of their 1st clinical trials are for HCV, this info should be forth coming in the next month or so. At least they are getting their chance.

HP is not available on the market in India or anywhere else yet , only time will tell.


I really don't understand how some folks here claim to know so much, everything, regarding Tx, mutations of the virus , the effects of high or low viral load on Tx, liver regeneration, liver enzymes etc. etc.,  this list is a long one .... and yet have closed minds ......

When in the industry, research scientists, and the doctors themselves freely admit they are not even close to fully understanding what there is to know about this virus ??

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Thought this insert from MedHelp would be a good thing to remind the viewers of here:


Member Comments are provided by individuals and reflect their personal opinions only. Under NO circumstances should you act on any advice or opinion posted in this forum.  ALWAYS check with your personal physician before taking any action regarding your health! MedHelp International and our partners, sponsors and affiliates have no obligation to monitor any comments posted on this site, or the content and/or accuracy of such exchanges. MedHelp International does not endorse the views of any user.
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This from the VA's hep website: http://www.hepatitis.va.gov/vahep?page=prtop04-wp-01

Pay particular attention to the last statement regarding beginning Tx with a high viral load and clearing the virus.........


HCV viral load. This results of this test, quantifying the amount of virus in their blood on a particular day, usually are given in "international units (IUs) per mL" and often additionally as "copies per mL." The IU measure was established to be very similar among different laboratories, so that a viral load measured in IUs by one laboratory should be equivalent to that measured by another laboratory. Values in copies/mL may vary among laboratories. Practitioners also should bear in mind that viral load often fluctuates 10-fold or more in a given patient without any clear reason.
viral loads >800,000 IU/ml or >2x106 copies/ml are considered "high."(1,2) Some laboratories will give values merely as a range (eg >800,000 IU/ml). Since a "2-log reduction" after 12 weeks of interferon therapy often requires precise knowledge of pretreatment viral load, practitioners may ask their referral laboratory to further "dilute" samples to yield an estimate of the height of viral loads outside their usual dynamic range.

"High" viral loads are associated with lower viral clearance rates in all published studies of interferon and ribavirin therapies.


All published studies of INF + Riba Tx concluded a high viral load at the start of SOC Tx lowers the clearance rates ......

nygirl - Where was it you get your data again ??
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Rubbish, the lot of it.

Trinity
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I can't help ut think that Aethlon picked the wrong disease (HCV) and at the wrong time. With drugs like teleprivir and boceprivir very close, it seems that the Hemopurifier - even if it was ever proven will be rendered obsolete for HCV in the very near future.  We have all read, and received actual patient reports, about the very fast viral effects of the new drugs even in the first few hours of administration.  Assuming that the PI's will have SOC timeframes of about 24 weeks, I don't see how AEMD would be able to carve any niche and make any inroads to the treatment of HCV.  Even if the thing works the Company management are a bunch of boob.  Good thing there aren't many of them.

AEMD's website states "...studies have confirmed the capture of Dengue Hemorrhagic Virus, Ebola Hemorrhagic Virus, Lassa Hemorrhagic Virus, West Nile Virus, H5N1 Avian Influenza Virus, 2009 H1N1 Influenza Virus, the reconstructed Spanish Flu of 1918 Virus, and Monkeypox Virus.."  If astute, it seems like the management of the company should turn it's attention to that dastardly Monkeypox virus.  If any of you recall our former member , Meki from Alaska, you might recall her references to monkey sex which she referred to on a number of occasions.  Maybe there is something there...hmmm.

Aaron was also kind enough to remind us of the Medhelp policy which includes    "ALWAYS check with your personal physician before taking any action regarding your health! "  There could be a whole bunch of people who, after reading this thread, have run to their doctors and said "hey, doc can you write me a prescription to go to Hyderbad India so I can get me Hemopurified".  It coule be, I suppose, some relief for the unemployment problem because people could get call center jobs while they are there.  Imagine, making a customer service call and getting transferred to India and actually speaking with an American.  I don't know, maybe this thing has legs after all.

Aaron also referenced the VA. The freaking VA.  The one government agency that probably creates more HCV than it cures!!

I think I'll stand by by my earlier asertion that the best course of action for AEMD might be your local Jiffy Lube location. I think it's the only way AEMD will do any business in the US.
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I'm wondering why... if that machine works so well in Japan that the government actually helps with the payments for treatment... why haven't they made it across the ocean to the US in 2 years? That's a long time for something that has been proven to be so effective... if that is truly the case.
Diane
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nygirl - Where was it you get your data again ?? "

I guess unlike some geek who believes everything they read I found out from real life and real people and real experience.  I started with a 568,000 viral load and did not clear until after week 12 and before week 24. I have known many others who have had the same exact situation therefore proving (at least to the real hepc patients if not the old data study makers and authors who just repeat this old information) that really it does not always make any difference in the world. Ask Cuteus or Bill or any one of us what the case is when starting with a low viral load then go reread the study data and wonder if it is always correct or not.

Good to you if you feel this viable option will help you clear - go to India and help out their ecomony all you like, but personally I think you are wasting time and money and should hold out for the REAL medications. Doing daily AEMD doesn't really seem to have any merit from my real life experiences and those of my other friends in here.

Again I don't personally care what you do it is your life and best to you - if that means living in India for a couple of years well I guess to you it is worth it but here in the USA they are working on medications that already are proven to assist curing this disease.
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I think that the reason the AEMD filter is able to help the viral loads of so many diseases is because the filter has affinity agents that cause the proteins of the viruses to stick to them.  All viruses have proteins so it is just a case  of trying different affinity agents that stick to different proteins until they find one that sticks to the proteins of what ever virus that you want to filter out.
If you got viruses that are causing your car to run poorly, then  AEMD could probably make a filter to get them out. I am not a mechanic so IDNK if proteins in motor oil are a common problem, but if they are, then AEMD should make a filter for Jiffy Lube.  
And the reason that they have developed a Monkey pox filter is because it is the closest thing to Smallpox that researchers got to work with.
The only 2 test tubes of Small pox that are SUPPOSED to be on planet earth are in Atlanta, Georgia and in some town about 100 miles south of Moscow, Russia.
If that turns out to be true, then the Monkey pox filter was a waste of time, but if Bin Laden get a hold of a test tube of Small pox that somebody forgot about, then you WILL be happy that AEMD got a filter that just might work. So please do not criticize them for doing a little research on Monkey Pox. Because that **** aint even funny.

Nygirl, are sure that basing your beliefs on quantitative Data is not better than basing it on a handful of examples of people that you know.?
I really know a guy that had Colon cancer and was told that he had less than 1 year to live. He decided to try fasting with a twist.
He ate nothing but Jello and Ex-lax for 12 days and now his cancer is in remission. I told him that I do not think it was the diet the cured him but he is certain that it was. If I get colon cancer should I take the advise of the guy I know that is cured? or look at the Research Data of thousands of people that have had the same problem?




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This reminds me of the peroxide infusions
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This is just my opinion as to the answers to your questions, I am just an idiot Factory worker so rember the source of these answers.

1) Are you referring to the 60 patient study that you referenced or the 9 patient study that I posted?  Those are your definition of solid reseach and proof?
Answer: AEMD only has 6 employees, it only had $120,000.00 of cash on the books last quarter.
I do not know what it costs to do even one full scale clinical trial on one person but considering their financial resources, I think 9 patient study is the best they could do. and I believe that the tests were done on people that had HCV AND were on kidney dialysis machines because they were in end stage kidney disease. (AEMD could not even afford to rent the dialysis machines to do the tests so they did the what they could afford)


2) Why doesn't AEMD mount full scale independent tests like other new drugs and devices?
Answer:  Lack of  $$$$

I'm not affiliated with AEMD , I have no idea why not ...
Lack of  $$$$

3) Isn't AEMD's plan to combine their device with those toxic drugs? Where is the gain there?
Answer: I think they figure that if a person is going to expose himself to those toxic drugs then they should at least have the best chance of doing what they are supposed to do.

The gain is , if it is a success in trials like DFPP , not layering another drug on top of the SOC to achieve a high SVR ratio. (and maybe they can lower the amount of drugs required for those that just can Not tolerate the Inf + Rib

4) And make big $$$ doing it this way?
If it works and if they do not go broke before they can PROVE that it works then they will make big $$$. (And they deserve to make big $$$ because they took all the risks)

Nothing in this world is free ... more power to them .

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I do not know anything about peroxide infusions?
What was the logic behind that?
Peroxide is an oxidant? How could that help?
AEMDs filter has a logical reason for why it could work.
At least as I understand it.
Are you say that peroxide infusions were some kind of snake oil that some HCV infected put all their faith in?
Like stuff done by a witch doctor?
Do you think AEMD s filter is just like that?
If so, Why?
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Your forgetting one little thing Aaron.  It doesn't matter if the viral load goes to
400,000 IU/mL or below (which is the new low in the hep community) with your crazy cute little machine, the patient still must take those horrible, nasty life altering big pharma drugs to be cured.  Dang it.  And I'm thinking AEMD must be giving out crystal balls with their hemopurifier because they are certain those nasty life altering big pharma drugs are going to work more effectively with a lower viral load regardless of how the immune system works with those horrible, nasty, life altering big pharma drugs. Right?  And then of course geno 1's they will have the option of shortening their treatment time to 24 wks because they will have started out with a low viral load, RVR'd and won't need the full 48 weeks.  And there are statistics to back this up correct?   And then there are those like myself, clinically low viral load, relapser who should jump on SOC right now because that viral load is LOW so SVR odds are HIGHER regardless, right?  Any statistics to back that up?

What you post is nothing more than speculative crap and I think by now you realize this community is hip to you but it makes for amusing conversation.  I suppose if I was committed to such a concept like yourself, I would have to continue with my illusions of grandeur so as not to lose face.  And perhaps credibility means nothing to you because you're just a die hard hemopurifier kind of guy.

Trinity
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I think you missed my point.
I am sure that there are (or soon will be) drugs that can lower the load count just as much as AEMDs filter can. But the Filter reduces the count for All the HCV Viruses. Not just the Viruses that are of the variant that are killed by the new drug.
So I would think that getting a reduced load count after using the filter would be better than getting the same load count after using a new drug.
Because even though the number is the same. The make up of the viruses in the body are not the same. The ones left in the body after the new drug are the ones that are more immune to the new drug. And when those reproduce their offspring will for the most part be like them.
Get it?
But the Viruses that the Filter removed are physically removed so they would have the same offspring as before.
Right?
Am I missing something?
That was my original question that nobody has answered yet.
Please help me out.
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Not so sure that i missed your point Ruffuss, and i don't think you are missing something any more than the current data available provides.

There is no substantiated or conclusive data on your question as far I know. My thinking is pretty much the same ...  

"the Filter reduces the count for All the HCV Viruses. Not just the Viruses that are of the variant that are killed by the new drug.
So I would think that getting a reduced load count after using the filter would be better than getting the same load count after using a new drug."

I agree, for me it makes sense,  but I don't understand your following question:

"But the Viruses that the Filter removed are physically removed so they would have the same offspring as before."  

Can you clarify ? I don't get it , if they are removed physically ... that's it end game.

We need time , the DFPP seems to be the only clinically trialed and approved filtration device at this time & has only been approved since 2008 in Japan. AEMD is just now supposedly starting their clinical trials.

DFPP is undergoing more clinical trials in Taiwan at 6 facilities right now, as you know it's a different system than AEMD based on the same concept. I like the idea , it makes sense to me.

The data to date on viral mutations of HCV is very far from conclusive, the scientists just don't know much ,,, yet.  

Ruffuss , What little data is available : once the virus has mutated , all it's offspring are the same mutation ,,,, or,,,,, possibly in transition to another form of mutation,,,, nice ya ..... nobody really knows yet....

Any left hiding in the liver, which they do so well, the scientists studying this aspect of HCV mutations, can only agree with what the clinical trials say about adding PI's to the regime, thats it's possible ,,,,  up to 65% of the mutated virus will react to the new meds.  

It's anybody's guess Ruffuss. SOC Tx , mutations, side effects ,,,,  all of it at this time, is a guess , speculation , nobody can say 100% conclusively one way or the other.

Mutations are being researched, unfortunately there are no easy answers, as you said & it takes a long time.

I wish you, and everyone, the best results on your battle and quest for attaining SVR.

I have no idea of AEMD's financials, I like the concept, like the DFPP from the first time I read about it & I wish them success on their quest. At least someone is out there trying to find a different approach.

And all the other companies searching for an alternative, drug based or machine based system, to using the only FDA approved drug INF, it is very toxic as the FDA and any doctor will tell you,,,,,

There are many new attempts in the "pipeline" and with time and some luck, maybe one or two will be able to withstand clinical trials and go on to help us all to remove the many strains and the mutations of HCV infections around the globe.

About all we can do right now is keep our fingers crossed that more attention and $$ is focused into finding a real "cure" for HCV. $$ invested and research is being attempted all over the world to find the cure.

Make an informed decision what is personally right for you , not one decided on from this or any other so called "experts forum" ...


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Anybody here that claims they know 100% conclusively about how this virus works or does not work , effects of the meds used or different treatments for HCV ,,,, are in my opinion,,,,,,,,,

Practicing very risky behavior ,,,,,,,, that could influence someone newly diagnosed, there are plenty on your forum, who have not done his/her homework, or is having trauma and easily influenced ...

into making an ill informed decision that may not necessarily right for them.

We are all entitled to our opinions ... giving an opinion is ok , no problem,,,,,,,,,

However ,those of you who claim to be "experts" and are presenting your selves as giving sound medical advise ,

Should rethink your objectives about being here , or at the very least, the way you phrase your opinions ,,

You could not possibly know what is right or wrong for someone you meet online, give your opinion, make sure the folks know it is only your 2 cents worth.

None of you are professional medical practitioners ,or, research scientists.





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I owe you an apology , I'm sorry for my comment to you.
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Can you post a link please to your 400,000 IU/ml updated info ?

Or a link to any valid 2010 info that shows that starting with a low VL  does not help in achieving SVR with SOC Tx ?

Or that VL has no impact on SOC Tx ?

Dang it , I'm still waiting .... darn it ....

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I would like to thank everyone that replied to my original question.
Even those that just told me that they thought that I was stupid for thinking about it.
IMHO I think that there is at least a 60%- 75% chance that AEMDs filter will end up helping enough HCV infected that it will be worth the expense of the treatment. Of coarse, I am saying that without even knowing the final efficacy of the filter or the added expense of the treatment.
It is still possible that using the filter will have some unknown side effect  that would make it a bad idea. (but I think that should have shown up by now)
But I do think that almost everybody would agree that AEMDs research does have enough merit to it, that it is Defiantly worth continuing?
Based solely on the fact that the possible benefit to the device (if it works) is great enough to warrant the little it costs to continue the research to the point where the data is conclusive. (when compared to the cost of the pharmaceutical companies trying to bring a new drug to market). Would everybody agree to that statement?  NYgirl ?

My liver is not in bad enough shape to do this yet. (Plus I do not think I am mentally prepared to do this yet)
But I got the kind of money to spend to try this thing in India. At some point, some American with Geno type 1 has got to take the risks and try it. I have no children, so it may as well be me.  From what I can tell, AEMD has been trying their best to do real trails, and get real data, with no money. They have used their device on patients that were already on kidney dialysis machines and dieing of kidney problems that were likely NOT 100% related to their HCV infection. That is no way to do real research. They need a bunch of healthy 43 year  old Caucasians that have failed treatment twice and have Geno type 1, Like myself.
Maybe I can help see if this thing really can help save some lives of some of our fellow Americans. I will let everybody know when I buy my tickets to India.
I am sure that some of you will think that I am wasting my money.
And I appreciate your concern, but I can NOT take it with it me, and I got nobody that needs it. So I can think of no better way to spend $120K then seeing if this damn filter works in a clinical trial of ONE.



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I will try to explain my thinking. But please do not laugh, I do not claim to understand how this or any other virus does what it does.

"But the Viruses that the Filter removed are physically removed so they would have the same offspring as before."  

Can you clarify ? I don't get it , if they are removed physically ... that's it end game.

Think of total number of  HCV viruses in our body like 1000 marbles in a jar.
960 of the marbles are red (they are the viruses that are easily killed by Inf + Rib) and
20 of the marbles are blue (they are the viruses resistant to the standard treatment)
8 of the marbles are green (they are resistant to INF+ Rib BUT are killed by the new drug.
2 marbles are black, and drug resistant to everything we got.

If you take Inf + Rib + (new drug) then you got just two black marbles left after a few weeks of treatment. But those 2 black marbles are going to reproduce and fill the design space left (the empty jar). After treatment the jar will likely NOT be fill completely with black marbles because some of the marbles will reproduce red, blue and green marbles.
Just like a couple can have a blond haired child even if 7 of 8 of their of great-grandparents have dark hair. And when then child has a child of his own, his child is more likely to have dark hair than blond. Even though he himself is blond.
However, there is a very good chance that the final percentage of Black marbles in the jar at the end of a failed treatment WILL be much  higher than the original.02% that is was before you started treatment.
If a treatment does get SVR then I think it is because the immune system has multiple methods of killing viruses and the immune system got lucky and killed the black marbles. (when the viral load was at its lowest)
Now compare that to using the AEMD filter.
It is like opening the bottem of the jar of marbles and letting out 960 of them.
All colors of marbles will flow out with the same odds.
You could get lucky and the  black marbles are let out  so they are out of the picture
when you start the drug treatment.
If fact, if HCV were as simple as my Marble scenario then one would not even have to be lucky, because the odds are that the Black marbles WILL be gone using the filter.
I know that it is stupid to think of viruses like reproducing marbles but it does make sense to me.  

The other thing that I think plays a role in getting a SVR is entropy. (old age of the virus)
Do they know how long a virus can live in the body before it dies of old age?
Maybe the Inf just prevents the viruses from reproducing and the rest die of old age.
If that is the case then the filter is helping by removing a large % from viruses in  the bloodstream (young and old virus alike) and that should make the drug treatment more effective because the more young viruses that are removed, then the shorter time the Inferion has to prevent new ones for being made?

What do you think?




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This thread is a great advertisement, it never ends.
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Avatar_m_tn
A great advertisement? For what?
I am not advising anybody else to try this thing until I do it first.
Hell, it could be dangerous !
I would NEVER advise a young mother to try this thing with the data as it stands now.  

But do YOU think that the AEMD hepapurifier filter has enough current Data backing it up to warrant further research?
Do you think that my logic for why I think it could work in principal is sound?
I want this thread to end if you think that it is somehow turning into
some kind of Advertisemnet for something.
BUT FIRST I WANT YOUR opinion.
If you do not understand my aurguement then ask me what part
you do not understand.
If you understand it, but think that I am WRONG about something please tell me WHY you think that I am wrong.
I am open minded, so you really could change my mind.
But you will not be able to do that by just calling me an idiot.
I already know that I am one.
But please give me your opinion, and the reason you believe what you do.
Bruce

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You told me once that you believed that there is evidence that HCV virisus to NOT become drug resistant and that you think that it is my genetics that are likely the cause of my fail treatments.
do you think it would be better to wait until a Bio-tech company comes out with a treatment that take one Genetic makeup into  account?
I do not have health insurance so If I do go through a treatment I have EVERY reason to want it to work. I got some money but not enough to just keep trying every possible treatment until one works.
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I really don't have any judgement about what you should do for yourself. I have chosen to be in a boceprevir trial and it seems to be working for me, although I am well aware that svr and und are different animals. I am also just a guy on tx with limited knowledge trying to get well. My guess is that I said that it may be your genetics or chemistry that caused you to not svr, if I acted positive about anything I apologize.

I think everyone has made their arguments on this thread, people have gotten information and can make their own decisions which is good, but it is getting old now. I guess I should just stop reading it.

I really hope you and all of us get well by whatever means it takes, I am sorry that you have treated a couple of times and are still not svr. It must be very difficult to go through that. I know that in my 17 weeks of treatment it has been really tough and that's nothing compared to two complete treatments.

Take care and I wish you the best!
- Dave
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Avatar_m_tn
Good luck !
If you are Und then you are over half way there.
I am not much of a church goer, but I'll tell my wife to pray for you.
And I wish you all the best.
Take care
Bruce
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Thanks Bruce! A lot of people with advanced disease are waiting for the amazing new drugs. They interrupt the viral replication mechanism rather then boost your immune system the way interferon does. If you really want to use the machine, I think you should do it right before you treat again with one of the drugs.
There is hope,
Dave
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From what little I can figure out about the genetics, entropy, and kinetics of HCV , drug interactions and RNA mutations, be it as a result of our own bodies genetic responses or the virus's genetic responses to Tx,

The scientific community's assessment and general consensus is, when starting Tx for the first time, or, if a retreater , a low VL increases the chance for SVR.


Ruffuss, Are you able to take part in AEMD's clinical trial ?

From where and how did you get the figure of $120K ?  


It seems the folks here don't realize this device is not yet on the market and that it is only being clinically researched .

That IF successful it will be used in conjunction with and at very beginning of SOC Tx ,

and IF successful will aid in viral and possibly cancer eradication in a way that's never been possible before.

For what it is worth , if someone wants to take the time to Wiki , HCV

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepatitis_C_virus

DFPP & HP are both referenced in the "Current Research" section, just after the PI's ...  







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I think Ruffuss & tej109 are involved with the company and are here trying to get investors (suckers) for the almost bankrupt AEMD company.
Just another scam to pray on the sick. Little do they know most people on this forum have seen it all, LDN, ALA, ETC, ETC and will not get any investors here. They are wasting their time.

And just in case I'm wrong......
If they start testing here in the USA with the FDA involved and it looks good with proven data then they will get investors.
Just my opinion of course :)
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If you read the whole thread, you will find I answered the involvement question early and said my involvement is only to the extent that I have owned shares in the company for the last few years and still do.

If you want to think I am somehow actually "involved with the company", that is your choice.

My only goal was to correct some of the terribly uninformed perspectives here about the technology, which is why I said my peace and have not posted as much.  I think if some Hep C people come by this board they actually deserve the real information instead of uninformed cries of snake-oil and scam. And I think the discussion that unfolded acheived that.

By the way, while it is technically, maybe possible the Hemopurifier is hyped and not a real potential adjunct therapy, I consider it highly unlikely given the upcoming treatment study at Medanta in India is being registered with the Clinical Trials Registry of India and the Principal Investigator is the Chairman of the Division of Nephrology and Renal Transplant Medicine within Medanta's Institute of Kidney and Urology.

And, by the way, according to the most recent interview with the CEO, we will hear more about clinical studies in the US specifically for Hep C while the India study is ongoing. So I suspect that means we will hear about clinical program for Hep C in the US within the next year.

Time will tell how useful or not useful the Hemopurifier is helping Hep C patients.  
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