Increase chances of relapse by drinking post tx? (

Hey all, see some of the old posters are still around and plenty of new ones as well. Would appreciate your comments on this one:

Completed 48 weeks of pegasys/copegus for genotype 1A (initial VL 375,000 iu) three months ago. I'm expecting the results of a 3 month post treatment PCR fairly soon. If undetectable, will having a few drinks after that increase the likelihood of relapse on the 6 month test?
I tend to think that if the virus is still around, then it's going to come back anyway, so some social drinking isn't going to make any difference in that respect, it's either gone or not.
Or would I be tipping the balace against my immune system being able to mop up any last remnants that may actually still be around...I know there are going to be some strong views on this!

Undetectable at week 12 (probably before), and through to the end of treatment. No PCR 6 weeks post tx, but ALT was even lower again then (14), so that would indicate it wasn't back by that stage.

On another note, I followed the many post tx discussions - my experience was that it took me at least a month to even start feeling better, depression has stuck around, my short term memory is still pretty bad, concentration isn't great. Those symptoms seemed to get worse after treatment, odd. I think they are slowly resolving though, and gaining some weight again. Definitely a longer road back than I had anticipated. Treatment wasn't fun, but this site was a great help all the way through, thanks guys and all the best.

[lat36]

and that bracket was meant to have "and use for other posts" in it..

[susan400]

Actually, for me personally, I think it's not smart to be drinking when you've already had a liver disease. But that's me.  In your case, I'd wait AT LEAST until your 6 mon. LFT/PCR before even considering it.  If your still SVR at that point that I'd check with your doctor.

Susan

[jmjm530]

Can drinking increase your chance of relapse?

I've asked same question to two hepatologists and the answer is NO.  

I was allowed a couple of beers a week after my negative 4-week post treatment viral load test and a couple more a week  after my negative 12-week test.

[jmjm530]

Related, if you scroll down 15 threads or so, you'll find a related thread from yesterday entitled "svr and alcohol". If you can't find it easily, the link is:
http://www.medhelp.org/perl6/Hepatitis/messages/41664.html

You'll get enough diferent opinions on this subject to drive you drink :)

-- Jim

[jmjm530]

From yesterday's closed thread:

HepCBoy: What you are saying is that there are health benifits to the heart which outweigh the damage to the liver. I think you are wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------
But I never said that. The followig is  exactly what I said and quite different from your characterization.  

"Two hepatologists I spoke to said moderate drinking was OK. One said it beneficial in terms of my heart. I think this is one of those black and white issues that isn't black and white at all :) So glad you're feeling better after treatment."

I later went on to post a study which contradicts the conclusions you made from an older study and then said:

"Is moderate drinking good for you and your heart? Probably the full answer isn't in yet and maybe will never, be but nothing I've read or heard proves otherwise or even suggests that moderate alcohol is bad for you. So...if it *might* be good, and if it ain't bad...then what's left of my mental computer says why not if you enjoy it?"

I'm sure we can go back and forth on this but those are my words. The complete thread for anyone interested is here:

http://www.medhelp.org/forums/Hepatitis/messages/41664.html


-- Jim

[clinken]

I asked my doctor the same question and he said that drinking will not affect weather the virus comes back or not . I even drank while I was on treatment and stayed undetected the whole time. and I drink moderatley now at 2 months post treatment. My doctor even asked me to go have a drink with him. He said it was ok just not over do it.

[NYgirl]

May not cause you to "relapse" but any alcoholic intake in someone who has liver damage isn't necessarily a good thing = common sense tells you that.

I highly doubt a doctor would tell me if I just had lung cancer that a few cigs a day was an ok thing to do.

I see it as the same logic.

However it's a personal decision and whether the doctor told me I could drink a gallon of Jack a day, I would still use the logic...but I still HAVE liver damage and alcohol is the worst possible poison for my liver.  That is how I would take it.

[NYgirl]

Said: "Is moderate drinking good for you and your heart? Probably the full answer isn't in yet and maybe will never, be but nothing I've read or heard proves otherwise or even suggests that moderate alcohol is bad for you.

But I DONT have heart disease and I DO have liver disease.  It's this thinking that says moderate alcohol IS bad for you...myabe not someone without liver damage but for those of us who are already on the path of a progressive disease of the liver - why would we put in something that is PROVEN to hurt it?

It just makes no sense.

[jmjm530]

NY: why would we put in something that is PROVEN to hurt it?
It just makes no sense.
==============

As stated in the previous thread, not everyone, including some liver specialists, including mine, agree that a few drinks a week is bad for your liver. You and your doctor may disagree but that doesn't make it "Proven". Hope this finds you well.

-- Jim

[fishdoc]

Really glad to hear you cleared, and I am going to throw my 2cents into the ring... For me personally, I am tx because I love my husband and my sons, and I do not want my wild youth to cause them any additional pain.  I quit drinking in 94 when I was diagnosed, and I would have a margerita or two on New Years.  The problem: it wasn't fun.  A week of being consumed by guilt... made the 1 hour buzz not nearly as fun.  If you do have a few drinks in moderation.. and the virus comes back, what will you think?  Will you blame yourself??

JMJM, others...I've been thinking about the posttx side effects, and I want to put forth a theory.... Lat36, you indicate the memory issues may actually be worse..could it be that as your body regroups, and you start feeling better physically.,, you notice the brain fog more?  For example, when you have the flu, and your laying in bed dry heaving, you really don't notice the headache... then when the nausea passes... oh my aching head..

just food for thought...

[jmjm530]

Good point and I'm sure that's what is happening in some cases but not all. That said, I think it's somewhat academic whether side effects are post treatment or lingering from the treatment. Fact is that some of us are having problems after treatment that we didn't have before or at least at a different magnitude.

-- Jim

[fishdoc]

You know, thats one of the things I am dreading about my 24 week PCR... if I am undetectable, then I go another 36 weeks.... I just keep thinking ....**** it, I'm going to stop and wait for shorter tx options.... Does anyone know if the vertex trials are going to be shorter?  Do they just add vertex for 12 weeks, then continue with traditional tx length?

[friole]

lat -- Does you question not relate to predispositions and control?  Can your liver filter out one drink?  Sure it can.  So the question is, can you stop at one.  Or if you stop at one this time, do you start having one more often - and then two?  I am a strong believer in habit -- and old habits (unfortunatly ) come back pretty easily.  One drink for many people can turn into a six pack pretty quickly.

I actually found out I had the antibodies for hep C in 1993.  It freaked me out and I quit drinking (not that it was an issue) for a year.  Then seeing no effect from the hepatitis, I picked up where I left off.

I started treating in 2005 for a lot of reasons but one of them was that I truly could feel the difference in the morning if I went over my 2-drink limit. My filtering system was suffering and that was a wake up call to call the doc and have him test to see if I had chronic C (which I do, of course).  Now I haven't had a drink for 15 months and am almost done treating and facing the same issue as you.  I am not sure what I will do, but I don't ever want drinking to become regular again.
kathy

[friole]

oops - forgot to talk to you last post......   what I want to know is when is this 24 week PCR?  I think I am as anxious as you are on this one.
kath

[DoubleDose]

I am going to jump in here with an opinion on your above post.  No one know how effective the new treatments will be, how short the duration, and more important whan and if they will get the full green light from the FDA.  Anything can and might happen, and although the inhibitor class drugs look promising, there is still a long way to go!!!!

If I were in your shoes, (and I was just a few years ago), and I got the undetected at 24 weeks, I would continue full speed ahead for the planned duration of tx...In your case for another 36 weeks.  Get it while the getting is good!  There is no guarantee the new therapies will be shorter, sooner, or better....but right now you have a chance to SVR.  I think its a no brainer, if you come up undetected on your PCR.

Thats my opinion, anyway.

Doubledose

[Mister beagle bailey]

I have to agree with NYgirl on this.  I don't believe drinking is good for the liver after having Hep C.  I had 4 drs tell me no drinking at all, as I posted yesterday.  Even those who never had Hep C but drink heavy are told not to drink as their liver has some form of damage.

Beagle

[GrandOak]

Wouldn't the disagreement over whether a few drinks impacts the liver or not be an indication that, like which sx's a person will experience on tx, no one can predict if it will or will not and may even have different effects on different people?

It seems that the only fact is no one knows!  One study says yes, another no, another says yes but there are benefits, another says yes and there are no benefits, then yet another comes along and says there are other benefits, followed by yet another which says those benefits are minimal at best, etc., etc.

In other words, it seems that like the weather here in MN, if you don't like what this study says one thing about drinking, wait a while and another will come along saying another, both either for, against, or opposing views.

Basically, it comes down to a personal decision.  If you want to drink or not, then you will find all kinds of studies to back your desired conclusion and you will most likely dismiss any which do not support it.

Heck, the same can even be said from a biblical perspective, Jesus's first miracle mentioned was to turn water into wine (Hey Jesus was for drinking), the first thing Noah did on dry land as to plant a vineyard and get so stoned cold drunk that he passed out and his youngest son Ham shamed him, and so on.  But then you can find references such as in Ephesians where it says "And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery; but ever be filled and stimulated with the [Holy] Spirit." As with the studies, you will find those which will use scripture to validate their behaviour and choose to ignore the others.

As for me, I know that my old compulsive and addictive way of thinking makes drinking not an option for me.  I too tend to jump into the deep end with both feet without toeing the water first.  Contracting this disease pretty much was the nail in the coffin for me of any thoughts of relapse.  Being a stage 4,  damage has been done and mostly will not be repaired.  I know what drinking can do to the liver from a first hand experience and do not need any study to tell me if it does or does not affect your liver.  In fact, I attribute the effects of alcohol on the system to the reason why HCV was able to run rampant in my body and reach the near scale blowing VL porportions it was at when I began treatment.  Heck, I probably could tell you to the month even when the cirrhosis began on my liver, that is if you believe the information that it is quite evident in your bowel movements.

[fishdoc]

double dose, I do have a shot at SVR, but you might not remember I failed to have a two log drop at 12 week, so my chances are not as good as a newbie just starting tx, I upped the riba to 8 a day.....so as someone pointed out I went straight to retreatment at 16 weeks...that thread is down in May: fishdocs consult which had some interesting implications for hemoglobin and riba absorption..

Friole, thanks as always for the support... shot 24 tonight, then next friday is the dreaded PCR.  I am taking the day off, seems I take anywhere from 6-18 hours off a week these days....

So, I like the idea of posting pics at the aussie site!!  Amitracy and bill-good shot.  I looked through mine, and .... the only pic I have of me (I take the photos for the most part) is the one I took when I whacked my hair off, week 15, I think, and I don't want the glassy red rimmed eyes.... suitcases under the eyes to scare anyone off of tx!!!  I have a photo at work that may be a little better, at least my hair was on my head then...

[NYgirl]

From WebMD

Bad Mix: Alcohol and Hepatitis C

No Safe Alcohol Levels if You're Infected By Jeanie Lerche Davis
WebMD Medical News  Reviewed By Michael  Smith, MD
on Friday, March 12, 2004  


March 12, 2004 -- For people with hepatitis C, there may be no safe level of alcohol new research shows. While heavy drinkers have the most severe liver disease, even light or moderate drinkers put themselves at risk.

[jmjm530]

I think you missed my point. Of course you're entitled to your own opinion. All I'm saying now and in previous post (C9) is that it's not "Proved" (your words) that moderate alcohol drinking is bad for the liver. As Grand Oak said, we can all cite studies to back up a position, and doctors apparently give different advice. For someone new to hep c and all this, the word "proved" seems to conote that learned minds agree which they don't.

[cuteus]

ok, here is one study from the AHA.
Basically, if you don't drink, don't start for the possible benefits to the heart, and if you are abusing alcohol, stop or reduce intake, but those who drink in moderation, do definetely benefit from red wine, mostly.
http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/111/2/e10

if there is history of heart disease in your family, and you are someone who has enjoyed a glass of red wine with dinner, the AHA does not want anyone to enforce cessation. If you have minimal liver damage, to me, the benefits of red wine outweigh any possible damage to the liver(which will probably not happen with moderate consumption, but the benefit to the heart will be significant).  I think that is what Jm's take is on this. not sure.
my family has hx of cardiac conditions, my liver is mildly damage, I strongly believe that wine would benefit me considerably and would not increase damage to my liver, not with moderation.

[jmjm530]

What you quoted apparently was not the study but the Web MD's *take* on the study.  Later in article, the study is more directly cited and says in part:

"Risk for women has not been investigated much until now, Monto notes. Women in his study did very little drinking -- with less than 50% drinking more than four drinks a week. Monto cautions against drawing firm conclusions on this data:

    * In this study, women did not seem to have any higher risk of liver disease than men did.
    * Light drinking did not worsen women's liver disease. Only 12% of women were heavy drinkers, but did not have more liver problems than the 88% who drank less or nothing.
    * Among women who were heavy drinkers, there were varying levels of liver disease.

Overall, his study shows that some people may have greater susceptibility to alcohol's effects, Monto notes. Different drinking patterns -- such as binge drinking rather than daily drinking -- may play a role. Also, older people may be at greater risk.

His results may be somewhat skewed, since each patient reported his or her own medical history and drinking habits, he says. "

Full text here: http://tinyurl.com/zos69

[cuteus]

the problem is...I like a cold beer better. grrr

[jmjm530]

Cuteus: I strongly believe that wine would benefit me considerably and would not increase damage to my liver, not with moderation.
-----------
They also say a happy heart is a healthier heart !

As to the alcohol and heart studies, the majority of them seem to suggest that in appropriate quantities wine benefits the heart. Some studies say it may not. What else is new :)

[Mister beagle bailey]

You all just said it, it's not proven and the jury is still out.  However, if you remember my friend who died from liver cancer caused by Hep C a few weeks ago.  He also believed that having a drink here and there would not hurt his liver any further and he was wrong.  When his dr at cornell medical center in NY found out he had just 1 drink, he hit the roof and told him he was never to drink with a damaged liver.

With me I saw if first hand what drinking can do, he!! Steve may still be here today had he listened to his Dr.

Sorry, but I have to agree with NYgirl and Kalio on this.

And remember the jury is still out as even Drs don't even agree on this matter.

Beagle

[Forseegood]

I'm somehow not surprised your doc asked you to go have a drink with him, with all due respect! If he's telling patients it's okay to even drink while on treatment, I betcha he's asking a lot of people to go have drink with him! I think it's always easier bend the rules a little if you want to justify your own habits...(I'm speaking about your doc.) We should maybe all watch out what we are telling prospective treaters of this disease (and there are many) and not jeopradize people's health...with all due respect...

[jmjm530]

For said: We should maybe all watch out what we are telling prospective treaters of this disease (and there are many) and not jeopradize people's health...with all due respect...
----------------------------------
All Clinken did was tell his story truthfully in spite of the fact that he probably realized recrimination may come -- in this case in the form of my Aloe Vera lovin' friend Forseegood :)

Seriously, we owe everyone -- including prospective treaters -- our truthful opinions, our doctors opinions, and any relevant studies we're aware of. Clinken did just that. My problem is when someone intimates that there's only one truth when there can be so many literally divergent points of view. Let's give everyone here the intelligence to sort out for themselves.

[sunspot]

Go ahead and post your pic anyways. Heck, I posted my pic at the worst point in my tx. I'll repost a nicer one later.

[GrandOak]

See:

http://www.hcvdrugs.com/

for info on HCV drug trials.  Typically pharmaceutical reaasearch runs a set course of trials to meet FDA approval guidelines and do not cut corners by shortening their schedules.  That is why they are so costly initially, to recoup the research investment during the patent period, as opposed to the gouging theory many claim, before the generics swoop in and under cut the price because they only have to cover production costs and not the R&D costs which went into finding and proving it.  Keeping in mind that far more drugs fail to work or attain approval than those that do and that the overall R&D costs also covers the failure expeditures as well.

Another primary reason why Canada and other non-USA drug costs are so much cheaper.  They ignore the USA patent the founding company has on the drug and undercut them because they did not have to invest the R&D costs.  Think about it, what's the incentive to find new drugs if they can not recoup the R&D costs?  The companies would go bankrupt.  The alternative is to narrow the lines of reasearch, perhaps missing the silver bullet cure, and finding the one(s) (IFN-riba) which seem to work for the most part without a huge investment and simply living with that.

[jmjm530]

Oak: Basically, it comes down to a personal decision. If you want to drink or not, then you will find all kinds of studies to back your desired conclusion and you will most likely dismiss any which do not support it.
--------------
I agree with the first part "it comes down to a personal decision" with differing points of view. Just bothered by the word "proven" when moderate drinking is not "proven" to be bad for those finished with treatment.

As to the second part, "you will find all kinds of studies to back your desired conclusion..." I'm not sure if I agree or not, depending on how you mean it. I agree if you mean after the fact, but I disagree if you mean that one first makes a decision (to drink or not) and then finds a study to back it up.

If my doctor's and/or studies were persuasive that I shouldn't drink. I wouldn't. As basically a tea-tottler (drimk maybe a couple of light beers a week and only once in a while) I have very little investment in alcohol. Truth is I'm very comfortable drinking my moderate amounts based on the input I've received.

[NYgirl]

It just doesn't make sense to ME.

Whether or not I had or have hepatitis C doesn't matter. Whether I achieve SVR doesn't matter.

I have LIVER DAMAGE and alcohol destroys liver cells.  

I honestly believe even if I DID drink (which you know I can't as I'm an alcoholic and if I did...I wouldn't be at work anymore lOL) I would NOT tell people my personal belief that it was OK to drink.  Because ANYONE who has liver damage really has to consider their liver ABOVE ALL THINGS.  

It's been injured and on it's way to being destroyed. It makes no sense to put the one thing that has been PROVEN to hurt livers in.  And please do NOT say that alcohol has not been PROVEN to cause liver damage because it most certainly 100% is.

I think on this forum it's best to put the BEST foot forward for new people and since nobody can say anything here but how they FEEL it's best to take the high road and NOT tell people to drink.

You never know if a stage 4 is taking that advice to heart or a stage 1.  What a difference.

I'm sorry it's all my own personal opinion but also...it makes good common sense.

Slam me if you want but I just don't think telling anyone with ANY amount of LIVER DAMAGE drinking is perfectly fine makes ANY sense in this world!

We are not talking about common place people and more than 5 drinks a week for a person with a perfectly GREAT liver sounds very very high.

[cuteus]

"I tend to think that if the virus is still around, then it's going to come back anyway, so some social drinking isn't going to make any difference in that respect, it's either gone or not."

sounds like you answered your own question.

[Forseegood]

hmmm, I went to college, anyone making a statement saying they drank through treatment COULD be costrued as "advancing the notion"...but semantical argumention can get a tad boring....I think most people know what I meant...yeah, I'm getting out of this thread myself, always leaves me scratching my head anyway...

[GrandOak]

I tend to agree with NYgirl, with a damaged liver why risk further damage using a drug (yes, alcohol is a drug with a known molecular structure) which has been "proven" to inflict further damage.  I quote proven because I think there is enough evidence (he!! look at all the graves of those who died of cirrhosis of the liver because of it) to show that alcohol consumption does inflict damage upon the liver.

Where I see that the jury seems to be out is what level is safe in general, and even more disconcerning is what level is safe for anyone who already has a damaged liver!

There was a lively debate not that long ago on smoking and it's impact to the liver.  I'm guessing that if one searches the FDA, CDC, and Surgeon General reports that you would find more evidence that alcohol is damaging to the liver than you would find for smoking.

Then there seems to be all ranges of discussion on post-tx, SVR vs. non-SVR, during tx, pre-tx, etc.  I've yet to hear any doc or study which recommends that alcohol consumption at any level is safe for anyone which is infected.

Since SVR is not considered "cured" because the virus *may* still be present, as evidenced by the many relapsers who attained SVR and latter relapsed, wouldn't prudence dictate that alcohol consumption even post-tx w/SVR is unadvisable because the possibility does exist that the virus may still be present but lurking so as to avoid detection or at levels below current testing methods ability to detect?

As a recovered alcoholic, it obviously is not an option for me either just as a little meth, pot, horse, etc. is not an option for people who have demonstrated an addiction to them.

The point of my previous post is that one can always find someway to justify their action.  But if one is going to the trouble of finding the justification, then perhaps they should be asking themselves why?  Any addicit will tell you that they could always find justification for their actions.

So a study says wine could be good for the heart, personally I do not want my euolgy or autopsy to read, "Had one healthy mother of a heart, but his liver looked like it had been through WWIII".

[Forseegood]

Grand Oak, leave this thread!...youre making too much sense...hope all is well with everyone here, and everyone have a nice weekend!!!

[jmjm530]

Oak: The point of my previous post is that one can always find someway to justify their action. But if one is going to the trouble of finding the justification, then perhaps they should be asking themselves why?
-------------
Doesn't that "justification" work both ways?

BTW regarding eulogies -- most of the males in my family die of cardiovascular disease, not liver disease. Assuming my SVR which looks promising, my cardiovascular issues outweigh my liver issues at this point.

Now, I'll take my final adios, cause I'm really running late. LOL.

Hope everyone in this thread has a good weekend, whatever your take.

-- Jim

[susan400]

Hi there Debby.  What if someone had progressive liver disease and was headed for a transplant?  Wouldn't the transplant team what to know about your recent drinking history?  This is another reason why I think drinking when you have C and already have liver damage is very-very unwise.  I also have a history with problem drinking. Although I was never officially an alcoholic, I was about 1 drink away from becoming one.  I was never happy with drinking just one drink, or sipping on a glass of wine.  I wanted to feel the buzz.  I was into drinking STRONG mixed drinks, sometimes doubles.  Usually either Bacardi light rum and Coke, or a Mai-tai.  I'm glad I quit.  It's so much better not living my life feeling tipsy.  I also had a problem with the street drugs, which are responsible for my HEP C, the equipment I used and such. Actually, I'm responsible because I made that choice. But, I'm so mad at the drugs and alcohol for getting ahold of me that I don't want to give them another chance.     Susan

[GrandOak]

For me, the thought has crossed the foggy recesses of my mind that should tx not work, I could always go buy a few cases of single-malt scotch and fade away without really caring anymore or feeling the pain through the stupor.  My concept of lethal injection, seems much less painless than parking my car on the train tracks or eating a bullet.

[fishdoc]

susan, that reminds me of a jerk I knew that got a transplant because "he had community stature" whatever that means.  He still keeps a fifth of whiskey in his desk, doesn't hold a job because of his health....  We had the same Dr., and when I told the Dr he was drinking, he said he had helped kill two people, the person that died that didn't get the liver, and himself because his chances for longevity were minimal... I guess after my paltry six months of tx, I would never do anything that might land me right back in these shoes.......

[cuteus]

"Since SVR is not considered "cured" because the virus *may* still be present, as evidenced by the many relapsers who attained SVR and latter relapsed, wouldn't prudence dictate that alcohol consumption even post-tx w/SVR is unadvisable because the possibility does exist that the virus may still be present but lurking so as to avoid detection or at levels below current testing methods ability to detect"

"as evidenced by the many relapsers who attained SVR and latter relapsed",  

SVR means sustained viral response, meaning negative for virus 6 month post tx or longer. There are not many relapsers in the SVR group, stats place it at 2 to 3%.
as said before, alcohol would not make hcv come back, if it is not present in the body anymore. There has not been a single case documented to that effect.
as for the 'cure' issue, there are still many drs that use the word 'cured' once you have achieved a true SVR, not just a negative PCR. The latter does not equal SVR.

ok, I must have misplaced my definition of sionara and adios...somewhere. good thing the thread is almost closed...

[NYgirl]

Since heroin isn't bad for my liver...perhaps I'll just use that to chill myself out instead of the booze since I happen to like booze way too much. Otherwise I'd open a bottle of wine and pound it down right now.  

Cause right now I have riba rage beyond belief at the real lack of common sense being spouted.

(PS Heroin is a much more fun drug than alcohol for those of you who haven't tried it but dont' want to drink...give it a thought, if alcohol won't hurt your liver drinking it every day...I'm sure this wont either...just try to use clean needles so you don't reinfect yourselves).

[Forseegood]

This subject just kind of cracks me up, you see people agree on minimal drinking only after SVR, then, and even BEFORE SVR is known, but after treatment....with some people agreeing on minimal drinking ONLY IF YOU HAVE MINIMAL DAMAGE, but they are arguing on the same side of the equasion of the relatively FEW people (maybe 2..3?) who say that minimal drinking applies to people with MORE THAN MINIMAL DAMAGE... but they continue to argue on the same side...

Cept there are some HUGE qualifications there that just seem to be omitted over and over again, while these various posters are arguing on the SAME side...so someone reading these arguments might get a tad confused....

Then every once in awhile you'll see a poster argue for drinking even WHILE on treatment...whew!!!! You've got drugs that are known for speeding up the cardiovascular system and God knows what else in many people... why not just add some booze in the mix too for crissake! Along with all the various other drugs you need to take to be able to get through treatent, sounds good to me!!! After all, the docs don't have to take this sh^t, why not???

[Forseegood]

So Jim, youre saying it's okay to tell people it's okay to drink while on treatment? Fine...

[jmjm530]

Got to admit u got me confused with the first two paragraphs :) but regarding the third...

No one to my knowledge EVER argued that anyone should drink during treatment and that includes Clinken. Can you point me to such a poster?

Clinken simply admitted that he did drink during treatment which is a HUGE difference. He also never said his doctor told him he could drink during treatment which you intimated in your last post.

BTW I had the sushi roll combo last night with Edamame, so eat your heart out :)

-- Jim

[cuteus]

"Cept there are some HUGE qualifications there that just seem to be omitted over and over again, while these various posters are arguing on the SAME side...so someone reading these arguments might get a tad confused...."


I am totally confused by c34!

[jmjm530]

For: So Jim, youre saying it's okay to tell people it's okay to drink while on treatment? Fine...
---------------------------------------------------
Well, maybe I should join NY Girl in "Adios" land cause your mischarterization of what I said borders on the *#(W*). Never said that, never intimated that, in fact I've said the opposite.

[jmjm530]

Cuteus:
I am totally confused by c34!
---------------------------------
That threw me for a loop but not as much as C35. Maybe it's the topic, or sun spots, or maybe just too much aloe vera juice.

[Forseegood]

I think most people get my drift...there is a huge difference between drinking POST SVR, and drinking before you even KNOW you have SVR...

There is a huge difference between drinking post SVR with minimal liver damage, then drinking at this point with known damage exceeding a biopsy grade of 2...

And why people advance the notion of drinking WHILE on treatment goes beyond the beyond for me, but maybe I'm crazy...

with all due respect....

[cuteus]

it happens every single time when this topic comes up! EVERY TIME! is as predictable as comet Halley.
adios for now>

[jmjm530]

For: And why people advance the notion of drinking WHILE on treatment goes beyond the beyond for me, but maybe I'm crazy...
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You're not crazy, just didn't read very carefully what people are saying. NO ONE is advancing the notion of drinking "WHILE" on treatment. NO ONE.
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Y' know, with NY and Cuteus saying "adios" I kind of feel left out...so I'll complete the "three amigos" and say adios for now myself as I have an appointment with my dental hygenist in an hour, not that I wouldn't leave this thread anyway. As Cuteus said, as predictable as Halley's Comet or as predictable as those pesky little bubbles in the Procrit vial :)

[cuteus]

"I think most people get my drift...there is a huge difference between drinking POST SVR, and drinking before you even KNOW you have SVR...


I see the confusion and why.  THe original question was forgotten and morphed. the poster stated that if the virus was still there, alcohol would probably make no difference in the relapse equation, which is absolutely true.  Whether you know you are SVR or not, drinking will not make hcv come back if it is not there. NADA there, whether you know it or not, means nada to come back!
the problem is, you believe that alcohol can bring the virus back, I have seen you post as much with the story of your friend stating that she was 'clear' until she drank and then voila, hcv reappeared! Her virus coming back would have, whether she drank or not, whether she knew she was SVR or not.
now its adios for sure,(thread is filling up anyway), on to bottom feeding.
sionara