MAD

[kimberlynn]

Hey guys, have'nt been on in a few days.  The drinking thing did'nt work out to well, I quit but he kept drinking.  So... I'm drinking again also. Anyway I got a call from the doc today. They can't get my husband in for his biopsy until Aug 13th.!!!!!  He said he's gonna keep drinking until he has that done. I told the nurse that and she just giggled.  It's not funny. I guess his numbers are'nt so bad yet The doctor's office or the hospital don't seem to be real worried. I'd rather ask you all what you think?  His alk. phos. is 149, his alt is 142, and his ast is 99.  His viral load is 1,553,744 and he has geno type 1a.  Anyway you've always helped me in the past so here I am again.  I tried an addiction forum, did'nt seem like alot help or advice there. Nothing like there is here. Thank you all  and I hope you are all doing fine.

[ksk3926]

I think that if he is going to continue drinking that a biopsy or giving treatment any type of consideration is really not necessary. You both already know what you should be doing and if you really don't want to take care of your health and quit drinking why bother with biopsies or treatments?

[mkeela]

This kind of thing makes me so angry, thats why I've never responded to your post before...BUT, you need to know one thing. As alot of people know on this board, I lost my brother last June 14th because of drinking...he literally DIED because his liver could not filter the alcohol so it poisoned him. It also happened to a wonderful person on this board a few months ago. I can't believe WHY in the world you would actually think that the hospital/doctors office/staff or whatever WOULD take you guys seriously anyway. You guys'  drinking and the liver/tx DO NOT MIX. Anyway, get to a meeting or get treatment for alcoholism and don't expect anyone to take you seriously when you aren't. Good luck to you both.

[copyman]

alcohol is a sore subject here. there are so many that are fighting this dreaded disease that when we hear people say "i will continue drinking, etc" it just makes us sick. sorry to say you are not in the right forum. you sound like a really nice person and i feel for you but i suggest that you come back here when you are ready to take this disease more seriously. many here have givin you a lot of good advice in your previous post. i do not think you will get much more.  best of luck to you

[capn hardass]

i drank homemade shine for thirty years,with hcv.failed first hcv treatment.heartbreaking divorce,booze relapse.va dr said if id get off the booze for six months shed put me on peg tx.she seemed pretty skeptical.i walked out of her office and have never drank again.the little gal had personally challenged me.life isnt as much fun sober but the constant helpless addiction dementia and liver inflammation arent missed.he must be challenged somehow.

[debnevada]

Kim

Plain and simple. You both will die sooner than you need to. Maybe that's 20 years from now (or maybe not) but we're all here fighting for our lives.

No exaggeration, no sh@t

I don't drink
I don't want to drink
I don't want to suffer more than what this treatment is doing to me right now and
if i drank, that would be a guarantee

take care
deb

[Teufelhunden]

It was nice knowing you. Sorry that the beast won.

[ladybug52]

Hi, I've never posted to you before.  First I'd like to say thanks for being honest about you're drinking. Admitting you and your husband are unable to control it is a good step..........at AA, but I guess you know you hit a sore spot around here! Everyone's "dying" to save their livers so talk about abusing it causes an inflammatory reaction.
The nurse that giggled, well that should have told you something about her maturity level. It's not funny that your husband has this self-drestructive "I'll go down drinking" attitude. Eveidently he's made it easy for you to find an excuse to give up sobriety also. I'm sorry for you because it's painful to live in an alcoholic relationship. Alcoholics have a great way of twisting the truth to keep drinking. It's called manipulation. They end up making everyone around them crazy. I had a brother die of alcoholism (and hep c) when he was 44 so I speak from the heart.
Reminds me of a poster who is now sober, who told stories of his drinking days. He was in the hospital, sick as a dog and suffering from alcohol abuse. The dr came in and said, "actually your liver enzyme labs don't look as bad as I thought they would" That was all **Smorter** needed, he thought to himself "H&ll, I got time on this liver!!" and went out to get a drink.
**Names have been changed to protect the guilty**
Bug

[Forseegood]

I see this over and over again on this and other Hep C sites and I just think it's kind of sad...not that i'm judging (although it probably sounds like it, don't mean to.) Because firstly, I think we're all masters of our own ship and we're entitiled as adults to do what we feel is best as long as it doesn't hurt people or animals...even if it hurts ourselves, I guess...I think that nurse laughing is probably a little gallows humor on her part...and I can see why it wasn't funny to you...

If you follow this logically...this is a LIVER DISEASE...and alcohol is just not *good* for the liver, the liver can take it in small doses *if* it's healthy, but obvioulsy, if you have hepatitis (hepatitis meaning inflammation of the liver) you don't have the healthiest of livers...it's really pretty simple..

If you've been given this diagnosis, (which *can* be life threatening in some cases, particularly with heavy drinking) and you elect to continue drinking, you really probably should look into some possible issues here...particularly if you don't even know what amount (if any) of liver damage you have yet...

Is your daily buzz (however big that buzz is) worth all this?...

If youre indeed just drinking socially and there is no problem there (which means one or two a day, and maybe not every day) then it shouldnt' be *that* big a deal to give it up for a liver disease....until you eradicate the liver disease....this should be maybe just annoying at most, IF there's no real problem....if it's anything more then just annoying, and you have a real hard time giving it up...it should be looked into, logic dictates...

Please seek help with this, if youre hubby won't give it up under any circumstances, suggest AA or some other type of program to help with substance abuse issues, and then maybe leave it at that....after you've given your husband all pertinent information...(There is tons of information on alcohol and hep c on the internet, there was even a recent video/slide show from the renown Dr. Dietrick, maybe someone has the link, he says NO DRINKING WITH HEPATATIS)

If youre *involved* with a person with these types of issues, the best place for a person dealing with this is Al-Anon...Al-Anon helps people to take the focus off the cajoling, manipulating, turning yourself into a pretzel to try to get a loved one to quit a substance.....which can actually make that person's problem worse...

A doctor told me once, that these major diseases....like Cancer and Hepatitis, has flushed out a lot of people who might have problems in this area....and just never had to face them before...

That being said, there are many people who are just normal casual drinkers, or just enjoy drinks a few times per week, whatever....that get this diagnosis too, I'm not implying that everyone is an alcoholic who has this disease...I know I have to state that, or I get people offended that shouldn't be...it's easy to mis-read people here...

Once you clear this disease and get an SVR (Sustained Viral Response), I've heard that it's okay to go back to drinking minimally...probably, if you don't have a drinking problem in the first place...best of luck with this...

[rosebud57]

i am sorry that you were not able to make the change it hasn't been that long since your last post. education, if it is recieved can tip the scale -- the ravages of liver disease in any manifestation is not a pretty way to die. right now where you are, at either one of you or both of you may experience seeing the other go in a really horrible way.  

concerning stopping the behavior, it often takes several attempts to make a change when someone really wants to the stats are approx. 4 slips or relapses before full recovery. 18 mths sobriety and one is really on the road to recovery. if something doesn't work, try something else. what about an ultimatum, (you stop drinking) and he goes into a in-patient treatment program and really gets serious, or you both enter an in-patient treatment program and really get serious.  doesn't sound like what you both are currently doing is going to change anything.

i don't know what other advise or "help" you could expect from any of us.

good luck,

[Forseegood]

Hi, I hope youre doing okay, I think I read where you were feeling poorly, hope that is better now...I think it's so great that you can do what you do while treating...

As far as stats, I agree that it takes many people a few, sometimes more then a few times to get it right and stick to sobriety...but then stats don't always apply to the individual, as you know...sometimes people can just get some bad hangovers, have a real tough time quitting on their own, then get a reprimand from a boss, then go into AA and quit drinking on their first go...perhaps for whatever reason, there addictions aren't as entrenched, for whatever reason...

Then, sadly, there are some who plain never get sober, and they die of the disease...this happens as well, not all addicts get the gift of sobriety...or some people just become what is known as "maintenance alcoholics" where they can maintain jobs for many years, till they slowly get worse and worse and loose most of what is important to them in the process....I would venture that most addicts fall in between those two poles, but of course it's hard to get really good stats on this...I have heard some people estimate that 1 in 6 Americans have some kind of substance abuse problem, and that's a lot of people...

I agree with you that this stuff isn't to be taken lightly, and it's usually a lot of work, the more motivated you are (like going into a treatment center for inpatient or outpatient) the better chances you'll have (if merely going to AA doesn't work for you the first time)...hopefully for Kimberly, she'll work out what to do...

[Forseegood]

to add one thing with those alcoholic situations, you add hep c to the mix, and liver deteroriation is speeded way up...

[Forseegood]

oh yeah, my last labs were Alt 34 and my ast was 26...this is what they usually are for the most part....this is still considered slighltly raised, in that most people who have no liver disease and have normal liver functions are in the teens...(if nothing it irritating them) from what I've read...so yes, your hubby's liver enzymes are raised for sure...

[l-horn]

'Drinking again' isn't a permanent condition. After relapse recommit yourself to sobriety. Most addictions take several tries and a few relapses, to kick. Don't beat yourself up. Just keep trying.

Good luck, Kim.

[antman]

that's a hell of an attitude- if he drinks i must drink too. c'mon, grow up. if you love yourself and this guy you would set an example, not cave. i don't think you guys are seriously ready to take control of your lives. at least the booze will temorarily make you forget about the fact that your destroying your liver and health. yeah, it's that serious.

[Lilla]

I agree with everyone elses post as to drinking.  My ast/alt values pretreatment were 190/254  and VL at 1.8 million.    I never considered myself a heavy drinker, liking only wine and beer on occasion, however, after doing my own research, I know that HCV and alcohol are deadly together.   When I made the decision to stop alcohol when starting treatment, it was not easy, but after awhile I realized it was a "habit".  I had to replace that "habit" with something else. My husband went thru that with smoking.  You do certain things when you smoke, drink, whatever..........substitute whatever those things are.   Easy to say, hard to do, but it is doable in small steps.   My cousin died due to cirrhosis and she was only 56.  I knew she had a drinking problem, and believed her denial, but knew inside she was telling me what I wanted to hear. I regret not being more involved with helping her.   Tell your husband how much you care about him, that you want him around for a long time, and that you are willing to do whatever it takes along with him in order to help (and if that means no drinking--so bit it). My husband did this, and with support like that, things become easier.   I also truly feel that heavy substance abuse (whatever the kind) has underlying reasons, and that much more of a reason to help.   Good luck and my best wishes for you and your husband. You can do it.

[Better-Angels]

My husband was a full-blown alcoholic. The day we got the confirmation that he was positive for HCV, he never had another drink, not one. That was before the biopsy, before we knew how seriously damaged his liver was. It's been 4 1/2 years since then.

When I came home from work the next day, the kitchen floor was lined with A&W Root Beer bottles. He said the word "beer" in Root Beer made him feel better and, he said he wanted to live. That's it, he just wanted to live.

Everything is a choice, even our addictions. I think weighing the options is a matter of courage. It takes a courageous person to fight this disease even under the most "cushy" of circumstances, and a more courageous person to fight an addiction too.

The best he can hope for is to find someone to be his safe harbor, the lighthouse that guides him, steers him in the right direction. If you drink too, then you have to accept some responsibility in the shipwreck that certainly lays ahead.

[illo]

Why do you think it is you both need to drink?  

(I don't care about your answer here, it's a question for the individual to look inside and be totally honest with themselves)  Good luck.  It will determine the outcome.

An old Indigenous Story.....

Two Wolves

An old Cherokee;was teaching his grandson about life.
"A fight is going on inside me," he said to the boy. "It is a terrible fight
and it is between two wolves. One is evil - he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret,
greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false
pride, superiority, and ego.
The other is good - he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility,
kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith. This same
fight is going on inside you - and inside every other person, too."

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather,
"Which wolf will win?"

The old Cherokee simply replied, "The one you feed."

[mkeela]

Thanks, I had forgot about that one, it's been years. I was told that as a child. Thank you for the memory.             -Mequila

[ksk3926]

What a beautiful story, thanks for sharing it. Kathy

[GrandmaA]

My younger cousin died after minor surgery for colon polyps. He bled to death after he got home about 10 days after surgery. He had been an alcoholic for years and after he got hep. C he quit alcohol cold turkey (he had tried rehab a couple of times but didn't like it). He had aseties pretty bad. Are you ready to bury your husband? He's killing himself. Are you going to drink after he's gone? I miss my cousin's sense of humor. He had the best sense of humor. He was on the liver transplant list. Your husband can never get on the list unless he stops drinking. I hope you can go to AA and get the help you BOTH need ASAP. Read the post below this one about how the brain shrinks every time you drink. How small do you want your brain to get?