Milk Thistle

[mythoughts]

This is twofold......

1st, to Califia: I know that you're local. Where can I find Milk Thistle that is over 175mc per pill? I've tried Berkeley Bowl, Whole Foods, Walgreens and that's the strongest I've found.

Now, does it make sense that my liver aches only when I take Milk Thistle? I've stopped & restarted several times & it appears that the herb actually makes it ache. The pain stops when I stop. Any ideas?

Also, I have a friend who was born with Hep C. He is now 35 yrs old. He has been getting blood work every month for many years. He says that up until 18 his Hep C was not active, but that when he got Hep A at 18yrs old, the doctor said that it 'activated' the Hep C. Is this possible?

Is there a Hep A vaccine that is seperate from Hep B? B/c I have chronic HBV, none of the free clinics will 'waste' their costly vaccine on me. However, I've been told that it's paramount that I get a Hep A vaccine. Sigh.

Any thoughts/ideas?

BYSTANDER, you will be missed. I have to admi that this is why I don't check in here very often. I was dx in Aug & I'm still finding it easier to ignore my status. I always end up freaked when I leave. Sigh.

[orphanedhawk]

This post is from 2005, why??

[penn1023]

Milk Thistle causes constipation but magnesium glycinate loosens stools so I would use both.

[MNcL]

My experience is just like snook_man, I was on 250mg, 4 pills a day, I had very bad constipation for a month, then the day after I was off the pill, the condition quickly disappeared.
Milk Thistle does cause constipation.

[Smilnbenny]

I saw no link to Jay Emmons at Liverfriend.com, how do I find a link

[snook_man]

Yeah, when I first started taking milk thistle at first, I noticed a few things. I started getting headaches, constipation, and sort of tingling in the liver area. I backed off the dose, and it went away. I then gradually increased dosage till I was at three, 250mg pills a day..
Maximum Milk thistle, tooooo expensive.. Guy is gouging just like Roche, or Scherring for a product that others sell for less.
Look at some of the online vitamin suppliers, and get it at up to 80% off retail. I shop at Puritans Pride, Doctors Trust, the Vitamin Shop, and GNC..
All you need to look for, is a concentration of atleast 80% sylmilarian..
But I definately noticed a sort of tingly feeling after taking it. Hey, my logic was that it was the protective properties at work..

[Califia]

Funny you should ask ME about local supplement shopping, because generally I buy in bulk on the internet.  Would that it were otherwise, but this is an expensive habit to feed.  I like Maximum Milk Thistle, too, but buy the exact same stuff (Italian in origin, pharmaceutical grade, high silybin content) from my friend Jay Emmons at liverfriend.com at a far better price.  Btw, Rainbow Grocery in SF has a surprisingly huge inventory and will give you a 10% discount if you buy a hundred bucks worth of supplements.  

My Hep-C (got that ring, doesn't it?  sorta like my pet goat) was unmasked by a nasty bout of mononucleosis.   I wasn't symptomatic at all until then.  Thereafter, bam!   This is the kind of situation the doctor's probably referring to.   So yes, move heaven and earth but please  get yourself a Hep-A vaccination.   Co- and multiple viral infections are a complicated mess.   Very good to hear from you, and stay well.

[mythoughts]

Like I said, mine is just dull ache. I was worried that it was hurting me. I'll try to gradually increase the dosage. Thanks!

[Soleus]

Here are the patent details for the Phytosome� process used to make Siliphos more bioavailable.
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=
/netahtml/search-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ptxt&s1=4,764,508.WKU.
&OS=PN/4,764,508&RS=PN/4,764,508

[cuteus]

many old school doctors use the term dormant and active, or the sort when referring to hep c.  If there is a positive PCR result with a sensitive qualitative test for longer than a year, the person is chronically infected, the virus is ACTIVE.
The lack of symptoms or significant liver damage does not mean the virus is "dormant".  It is always active (as long as there is a viral load), replicating and forcing your immune system to react. If anyone is seeing a dr that speaks of dormancy and reactivation, they need to find a new GI.

[Califia]

Back to milk thistle for a moment, as  I have to strongly disagree with Snook about product quality.  (Share his attitude about MMT pricing.)  Milk thistle products, and herbal products in general, are not created equal.  You might want to go to the Maximum Milk Thistle site to read the research posted there, or do a google on Michael Murray and read his mini-essay on silymarin.   Jay Emmons at liverfriend.com sells the top grade Siliphos in bulk powder form at a huge savings.  You could easily cap it yourself.   Btw,  it usually has a laxative effect and should not be causing headaches and constipation.   And as for upper right quadrant pain, it sounds like it would be worth investing in an appointment with a trained and licensed herbalist/acupuncturist before going forward with self-treatment.  Quan Yin Clinic on Valencia St in SF is a non-profit, sliding scale basis community clinic staffed with excellent clinicians.   They treat HIV, HCV and other chronic viral syndromes.  Very affordable.   Even a monthly appointment would be of great benefit.

[t2622b]

I adopted a 2 year old that was born with the Hep C antibody but has always tested negative with the HCV PVR test.  I was told that he was cured or he never really had the virus.  Your friend being born with it but never going active until 35 worries me. Did your friend test positive for the antibody or the actual virus?????  I thought you either have it or you don't.  I was under the impression that there was realy no such thing as active or inactive HepC.  Please help me understand.

Thanks sooooo much.

[Soleus]

I take Natural Wellness Maximum Milk Thistle. You can get it from http://www.liversupport.com/

HAV can be very bad and in some cases fatal to people wit HCV. You should get vaccinated.

When people are exposed to HCV at an early age there immune system seems to strike a balance with the virus that can last most of there lives until something happens to weaken the immune system and upset that balance. Another illness or just old age can tip the balance and allow the virus to begin to cause liver damage at a faster rate. I supposed that could be called

[Tallblonde]

The pain I felt when I started taking Milk Thistle was rather intense.  Not gassy, exactly.  Sort of like a pain I had never quite felt before.  If I recall correctly, I think it may have seemed like it was in the area of the liver.  I remember it concerned me greatly at first, and I considered discontinuing the milk thistle.  That's why I felt compelled to share this with you.  Your description sounded very similar to what I experienced.

Susan

[mythoughts]

It actually just seems like my right side aches very dully. That's why I thought it was my liver. Is this the discomfort you mean, or do you mean general gassy feeling? I don't feel that......

Also, I want everyone's replies.....I was just wondering if Califia knew someplace local, that's all......

[Tallblonde]

I know you're seeking a reply from Califia, but I thought I'd offer you my 2 cents.  Milk Thistle does cause gastrointestinal upset when you first start taking it.  It's better to start with a small dose and gradually increase it.  The pain will eventually subside.  

Susan