My experience with supplements

[orleans]

I was dx 2/07. It was a shock as I have been  (and still am) asymptomatic. Infected late ‘71/ early ‘72. 1a, vl 210,000 ast89/alt139. Moderate daily drinker, reasonable diet and lifestyle. Father, husband and self-employed businessman. Stopped drinking and fixed my diet the day of dx. (bad fats, junk food, fast foods, red meats reduced to  healthy levels. (Not a “nut” but pretty much cut them by 95%+) Started milk thistle (Ultrathistle, net, <$40) and Liverite, Liveraide (sprawl-mart <$10) within 6 weeks. Started educating myself about the disease and it’s treatments. Mostly here, what a great resource. Treatment with it’s sx and low success rate did not appeal to me at all.  Had my gallbladder removed 1/07, bx same time. Stage 3.New blood test had my ast 53/alt71. Although my bx was a disappointment and scary the drop in my enzymes gave me some hope. The plan was to contact a naturopath and get on a supplemental regimen. I was hoping that if I could cut my enzyme levels in half, a professional might be able to bring them into normal range and slow or even halt the on going damage, thus giving me a little time to wait for the vx950. My  Dr. said I had between 3 and 5 years before full blown cirrhosis. He wanted me to treat. Well I got my n-path ($300 1st  consult, $200 2nd) and I really liked her. It was refreshing to get off “the conveyer belt” of modern medicine, if only for an hour! I started her regimen(listed below) 2’1’07. I also modified my diet to exclude all animal products, non-organic veg. and other various and sundry things. Our plan was to do this until my next blood test and Dr. appointment. Well--got the blood done 8/16/07. Ast114/alt215--YIKES!!!!! Didn’t take my pills THAT nite!! Stopped  her supps. 8/18, new liver panel 9/16 ast45/alt64. I am sending back all my unopened supps. Also back on the Ultrathistle/ liverite(8/18)
I have no idea where she went wrong. I still think supps can be helpful but am a little gun shy now. This  woman had   10 years of education including CM( I forget the school, in Washington st) and many accolades. Jerry m


Phosphatidylcholine 2700mg twice daily
TAPS=milk thistle extract (80% silymarin) 450 mg/ Artichoke extract 450 mg/ Turmeric extract 450mg/ Picrhiza kurroa extract 450mg/ All twice daily
A “Basic detox nutrient/” multi-vitamin w/ too many ingredients to list
Broccoli seed extract 1000mg twice daily(Onco Defence)

[orleans]

Herein is the problem, "opinions are like...... etc"  How is one supposed to know? My natro. went to school for 10 years and calls herself by the Dr. title and her regimen trippled my alt! I have no idea if my liver was damaged by what I was doing but being a stage 3 I really don't have room for even small mistakes. I have an appointment with my hepatoligist tommorow and we will be talking about treatment options. (at this point I can only see 2--Start treating w/soc now or try to get into the up coming telaprevir trial.)jm

[hitherdither]

I have a friend who has a friend that is an Herbalist and has been for the last 40 years. She recommends Dandelion, Liver Cleanse, Pau D’Arco and Chickweed.  She said to take it for 6 weeks and stay on a low protein diet and eat as many green veggies as you can stand and the doctors will wonder what happened.  She also advises against taking Milk Thistle.  She says chemo stays in the body forever. I'm going to order my H these herbs. Normally I would be skeptical but she's helped alot of people that I know with various other ailments. Couldn't hurt. At least I hope not.

[GoofyDad]

an inexorable continuum that might be resolved when the underlying cause is resolved.

Son, you have got a way with words. Hope you're feeling better everyday.

[orphanedhawk]

Thanks. I don't mean to sound skeptical, but my question is where did you find this information?

Ironically, I stopped taking it during tx because I was too nauseous to swallow the capsules!

[St. George]

Like I said it is a strong antioxidant which are always helpful in assisiting the liver to detox but it also assists the hep c virus to turn critical genes on and off in the replication process.  I wouldn't take it during treatment.

[orphanedhawk]

St. George: Where did you get this information regarding tumeric? It is known to be helpful to the liver.

Orleans: I saw an herbalist hoping, like you to avoid interferon tx.  She is an M.D., told me supplements would help my symptoms but not do anything to rid me of HCV.

Like you I had few symptoms but since I already have cirrrhosis I felt I had no choice but to do the treatment.  I've been taking milk thistle, ALA, omega fish oil and more now that I'm off tx. I started taking SAM-E and within 6 weeks my ALT and AST had dropped by over 20.

Some people have been successful in slowing down the progress of this virus. The flip side is it is said to be easier if you don't already have cirrhosis.  Good luck with this difficult decision.

[St. George]

Turmeric allows Hep c to replicate at an increased level at the cellular level.  Great anti oxidant for healthy people bad for our kind.

[St. George]

Turmeric allows Hep c to replicate at an increased level at the cellular level.  Great anti oxidant for healthy people bad for our kind.

[orleans]

Hey. Except for headaches(Dr. doesn't know if they are related to hep) I have no symptoms at all. In fact I feel really good (not counting the stress of having this disease and the decisions about treating that it brings) Blood is a little off, wbc3.5-normal 4.1 to 10.3, plt 124- normal130 to 400, mon abslolute .2- normal.4 to 1.3, protime 11.2- normal8.5 to 11.1. So you can see my dilemma about treating. For me the cure, during and post tx, (if you beat the odds and svr) look worse than the disease. Then again, HCC andd ESLD are not pertty pictures. My intention at this point is to go ahead and treat, though I loathe it and do not have my wife and family totally on board. jerry

[Lilla]

there is a website, www.hcvadvocate.org  - this site will indicate what herbs, supplements etc. that are harmful to liver and possibly harmful.  Good info.

I too supplements and like dancegirl, I try to keep fairly simple.   Good multi w/out iron, milk thistle, alpha lipoic, omega 3, COQ10, and a probiotic-- that's about it.

You say you are a Stage 3 and your doctor  indicated about 3 to 5 years before full blown cirrhosis, if no treatment.   Do you or did you have symptoms of any kind.  Is your blood work in normal ranges, liver profile etc. (I know liver enzymes are elevated, but anything else??)

[dancegirl54]

I took a supplement a few years ago for women that had been recommended by a professional who was well aware of my HCV status.  I didnt do my homework and my AST/ALT skyrocketed. The supplement contained black cohosh which is known to affect the liver.  I also got into the Fibroscan study and was a bit embarassed at the number of supplements I was taking when I wrote them down.  I like what FLGuy had to say and have come to that consideration as well. My diet has greatly inproved my overall health, I do take vitamins, try to keep it really simple.  

[GrandmaA]

The tumeric is fine, but I don't know about all the other stuff. The tumeric will also keep you from getting colon cancer. I have taken Dr. Zhang's herbs for over 4 years (sinomedresearch.org). They are excellent. I have taken 2 the same and another one the past year while I treated with conventional medicine (1a, stage 3, age 65). I just finished tx last week. I'm doing well. Most herbs you should not take during tx and the docs will tell you but Dr. Zhang made his own formulas.  I'm starting detox with infared saunas today. I take a few supplements but all mild. Best wishes for you in your treatment.

  

[katerika]

Treatment is managable. All symptoms don't hit at once. You just take it all in stride.. Perhaps ypu can get into a study for one of the newer options. Hep C is called the silent killer because you are asymptomatic for years. I postponed tx. and an treating now. Personally I regret not treating sooner, but thats water under the bridge.
Really think about it, Do you trust your Doc.
Good thouights are with you.
Ter

[FlGuy]

Consider the possibility that the continuation of liver damage, to an already damaged liver, is an inexorable continuum that might be resolved when the underlying cause is resolved.  And further consider as a possibility, that the stuff to which you've been subscribing had no impact, positive or negative.