OH NO! I forgot to back off the plunger!!

What an idiot I am. I'm starting to get a little bruise at injection site and it is just a little tender.

What if it was in a vein? Will I still get my dose???

I want you guys to know that I'm asking you before even calling calling the numbers that I have for nurse assistance. Probably a quicker response.

I've been meaning to post and ask what would happen if this occurred, but didn't get around to it. I am still a bit of a clutz when doing the injection. It really seems like you need three hands. One to pinch one to inject and ANOTHER to back off the plunger(to see if in a vein). I thought about using a bag clip(really) to pinch the skin so then I'd have two hands to do the rest. I'm not really that good with my right thumb as I've had three surgeries on unlner tendon.

[tulsatime]

Don't worry I am sure it is fine. I never did back off mine. Just the first time I did it. But I have so much fat I didn't have to worry about it. I did it my stomache. Where did you do it?

[tulsatime]

Plus I got bruises the first month or so and it was tender even bleed sometimes

[Paris47]

I seem to bruise at every injection site. I bled the 2nd shot, & terrified me, I couldn't reach the nurse, I found this site instead and it's been a lifesaver.
Others will respond with much more information than
I can give you, and rest assured, from what I gather, even if you hit a vein, oh well, not the end of the world.
I have been told the "angle"...the 45 Degree angle is the key, and also the way you pull the needle out..hopefully
at the same angle as it went in...still I have bruises,
and pain, and sometimes  a little blood.
Sometimes  I don't waste my time seeing if I have a vein,
just stick the needle in , close my eyes and push.
Don't let me discourage you, others will chime in soon, and come to your aid, this is a great group that will get you through everything.

[way]

I did it in my stomach. I'm not worried about pain or bruising. I just want to make sure I got my dose.

Why do they say that if you back off the plunger and there's blood to throw away, anyway. I mean if this drug is SO DARNED expensive??????  

I guess those redipen things you can't make sure your not in a vein?

What my question is --IS IT A BIG DEAL OR NOT??? And what if it does go in your vein????????????????Do you still get your dose OK??

I just can't believe I did that..,

[Paris47]

My doc, responded to this question (if you get a vein)
by saying, you still get your dose, don't worry,
don't toss out the medicine, just pull the needle
out and find another area to inject.
But if you don't back off the plunger,
don't worry, it still gets in
your system.

[Drarig]

Hey Way, how's it going?  It's scary doing the shots, but you get used to it.  I think if you hit a vein you would know.  I had been doing prefilled Pegasys shots myself for the first 4 weeks & did fine, except for redness. Then I had to start Neupogen & fill my own syringes from vials, so the pharmacy had me go there to do it for the first time.  I started to go below my navel, as always, & the nurse said to go up a little higher.  I thought it was a little too high, but I figured she was the expert.  As I was doing it I told her I was going to pull plunger back to make sure I didn't have a vein, & she said, don't worry, you'll be fine.  Well, when I injected, it immediately hurt like he#$!  (The Pegasys never hurt like that).  I don't know what I hit, but it immediately blew up like a big purple golf ball & stayed purple for almost a month.  I yelled out cuz it burned like acid & she got this weird look on her face. Think I would have been better just doing it at home, like always.  I'm now on Shot 19/48 & take weekly Neupogen shot & haven't had any probs since - no redness or anything.  I honestly think your belly skin toughens up a bit.  I'm sorry for asking (I should remember), but what shot are you on? Well, I hope your bruise isn't too bad.  Have a good night!

[way]

I'm on shot five. Of 24, I'm 2b. But I just had my 4 week pcr today and IF I'm und. maybe only 16. Unless I turn "obsessively GUNG HO" (like ya'll) before then. LOL

[sfbaygirl]

I have been giving myself shots for years, in my stomach and thighs, sometimes buttocks for migraines. I have never backed up the syringe except before the injection to get air bubbles out. I have hit a vein, not on tx, and it got a little red and a little blood came out. No big deal. Most of the meds got in fine. I cant' imagine trying to pull out the syringe while it is in your skin, well I can, just not with a shot in the tissue. They don't do that at the Doc's office when they give me shots, you would think they would worry about that if it were a problem.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

[way]

When they did my a & B vac. they pulled the plunger out a little --thats what I mean by "back it up". When I learned at  "The teaching" I went to and the video thats what they said to do. You're supposed to pull the plunger out a little with your thumb to make sure you are not in a vein-- which is almost impossible for me to do. Sometimes I have let go of the pinch to do this --Talk about awkward...

[sfbaygirl]

I believe Rocker may be correct, there are no veins in fatty tissue. The little tiny ones I hit don't even register. Out of the hundreds of shots I have given myself and NEVER pulled out the plunger I am reasonably certain you can do it without doing this. Even after hearing others that have heard to do this, I would not do it. DO get the air out of the syringe before, but don't worry. You will be fine. I think the pinching is more important.

I haven't gotten a bruise or any reactions from the shot site yet. Actually, the areas on my thighs I give my shots are feeling very rough, like rawhide, these days. It must be from the shots. I dont' feel anything though.

[jmjm530]

As I mentioned earlier, you might try "twirling" the plunger a few times to loosen it up prior to pulling back. By "twirling" I do not mean pushing it in or out but simply moving it around so it doesn't feel as sticky when you pull back. The key again is to anchor the barrel with your other hand so you don't accidently pull the needle out. All the best.

-- Jim

[way]

Ok I won't worry and I'll stop trying to pull that out and just fire it in. Thanks guys!!

[jmjm530]

I'm sure everything will be OK. Apparently what you're doing wrong is trying to hold the pinched skin while pulling back which does require three hands. What you do is pinch the skin with let's say the left hand, insert the needle with right hand, then release the pinched skin with left hand after needle is inserted. Now you can use your free left hand to anchor the barrel of the plunger while you pull back and inject with right hand. I also found it helped to twirl the plunger a little prior to starting to loosen the barrel up some. Hope this helps.

-- Jim

[lilmoma]

I never flag.

[way]

ok

[jmjm530]

My understanding is that Shearing's instructions for the Peg Intron Redi Pen do not involve "flagging" or pulling back on the plunger prior to injection. However, Roache's instructions for the Pegasys pre-filled syringes do indicate the plunger should be pulled back prior to injection to check for blood.

Part of the difference may be in the two types of delivery systems being used with the Peg Intron Redipen having a shorter needle. While for the most part it's true that veins will not be found in fatty tissue areas, this is not always the case and pulling back acts as a safety valve.
This is all explained in detail at Roache's web site.
Link here: http://www.pegasys.com/pdf/self_inj_guide.pdf

Personally, in the beginning I didn't pull back partly because the nurse told me it wasn't necessary and partly because I feel I had the dexterity. After a similar experience to the one posted, my doctor told me to pull back before each shot and I did so for the rest of treatment. If you release the pinch as instructed and anchor the barrel with the free hand, it's really not that difficult.

-- Jim

[way]

I'll try that.(I use pegasys prefilled syringes)

[way]

Well the idiot(everyone today)nurse that gave the vaccination did pull it back and guess what--- BOTH injection sites (BOTH ARMS) are still sore after a month. Did they screw that up.

BTW anyone know how long you are supposed to wait after vaccinations to get an antibody blood test to see if the vaccinations took??? I guess it would (of course) be after the first vac. which for one(a or B?)is 6 mos. after first vac. I'll be through treating by then!! Did that make sense??

While I've got you here did you post below about the deoderant (speed stick) I don't remember which thread it was on because it mutated.

[jmjm530]

Should probably add that you only pull back slightly. As soon as you see something clear enter the barrel you can now depress the plunger. Of course if the barrel starts filling with a red fluid that means you hit a vein and I believe Roache suggests you discard the syringe, however some of our doctors have suggested you can simply move the needle to another location and try again. In 54 shots I probably pulled back the last 44 and never did hit a vein but what I did gain was a little more peace of mind knowing I hit the fatty tissue which I had less and less of as my weight decreased during treatment.

-- Jim

[jmjm530]

Fish: Don't bother to pinch the skin if your uncomfortable, just poke and go.
-------------------------------------------
My ex-girlfriend whould say that' kinda rushing it, ya know.

---------------

BTW, animals aside, here's some definitive plunger technique
http://www.ehow.com/how_383_unclog-toilet.html

[way]

Thank you very much for the information, you are sooo articulate and its really very nice of you to take the time to explain it so very through.

[jmjm530]

Thanks. A lot of the problems is how badly written some of the instructions are.

You'll notice that the link I posted above suggests holding the pinch while you inject which I suppose would involve pulling back with the thumb on same hand. Now that would be a good trick!

The handout I got with my starter kit (same company) mentions releasing the pinch which would allow the other hand to anchor the shot.

Of course we're all different and have different amounts of fat, so while the 45 degree angle is probably safest recommendation for everyone, in reality those with more fat can probably inject straight in and those with very little fat may have to cut down the angle.

Same with releasing the pinch. If you have to inject into an area with almost no fat, you might not be able to release the pinch and therefore may have to shoot blind although reducing the angle to less than 45 degrees usually does it. I ended up with this predicament after losing 30 pounds and therefore stopped injecting in my skinny thigh and went back to the fatty areas in the abdomen. The irony is that 16 weeks post treatment I've gained back the 30 pounds and maybe a few more which would make injecting now really easy. But I'm not tempted to try :)

-- Jim

-- Jim

[way]

The paperwork and video and teaching said(and showed)to release the pressure of the pinch while still holding the pinch. Which as you said a good trick requiring three hands. And yes they advocate the method of "backing off the plunger" with the thumb..actually the thumbnail side(that winds up being the side) of the thumb which requires alot of dexterity and actual strength because it could slip off being two smooth surfaces.

I can't see if clear fluid is going in even with reading glasses --just if blood is not...
I know you are not supposed to pull back very far at all and I can't even tell half the time if I've even moved it.

I will try twirling it as you said thanx.

Way

[stangshelly]

i inject in the stomach and never pinch,the veins are usually to deep to hit there, it allows you to pull back on the plunger. i've pulled  back blood before but injected..no problem..don't worry,with these shots the just have to be under the skin, the h a,b series are to be intramuscular which is directly in the muscle the needle is longer and your arm or a$$ is sore for awhile..i can always tell after the peg i get metallic taste in my mouth almost immediately. :)

[Snookmiester]

At like week 42 or so, I had the luxury of finding out what happens if you hit a vein first hand.. Wife shot me in the thigh, which was pretty thin at the time. Not much fat at all. When she injected, I immediately got lightheaded, and the injection site hurt!!! I told her it hurt, and didn't feel right. When she removed the neeedle, it bled like all heck. I developed a large bruise almost immediately.
My Dr told me not to worry about it, but the sx's seemed alot more intense. I could taste the meds in my mouth, and it sort of brought on what I described to Dr as one would feel on acid.. It was rough.. Only lasted 3 days.

[sfbaygirl]

I'm with you! Someone could have a heart attack doing a shot! I have used both redipen types, vials and pre-fills. I still don't pull up.

Oh well, Can me have instructions on how to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich now?

[fishdoc]

sorry, I only know how to make nutbuttpeter and jelly sandwiches...are you starting to feel sorry for my kids yet???

JmJm, depending on the age of your girlfriend.... lets just say we take what we can get these days.....;)

[jmjm530]

SF: Can me have instructions on how to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich now?
---------------------------------------

Per manufacturer's direction:


1. Organize two slices Wonderbread, knife, peanut butter jar and jelly jar on a flat, clean surface.

2. Stabalize peanut butter jar firmly in left hand, PULL UP on jar lid with right hand.

3. Dip knife and spread on bread.

4. Repeat with Jelly.

5. Enjoy.

6. Note: Not every manufacturer recommends PULLING UP as some peanut butter and jelly delivery systems work better by TWISTING OFF. These are my personal opinions only and always check with your diatrician before using any of these techniques.

[sfbaygirl]

I TWIST not PULL. LOL  Since you are good at this how about one of your favorite recipes?

[jmjm530]

Oh, yeah, if anything red comes out of the Peanut Butter jar after PULLING UP, go get your reading glasses as you've obviously pulled up on the Jelly jar by mistake. Either that or seriously consider switching brands.

[jmjm530]

SF: I TWIST not PULL.
----------------------
Whatever turns your partner on :)

[fishdoc]

I can absolutely vouch for no vascularization in fatty tissue, just ask my hubby when he snuggles up to the butt that ate manhattan on a cold night ;)

[jmjm530]

Way: I know you are not supposed to pull back very far at all and I can't even tell half the time if I've even moved it.
---------------------------------------------------
I had the same problem until I stopped backing off with my thumb, and instead used my thumb and forefinger to pull back on the plunger which gave me twice the leverage

To clarify since we have no video, this is what I do:

(1) Pinch skin left with  hand.

(2) While still holding the pinch, inject the needle in.

(3) When needle is all the way in, release the pinch which now frees up my left hand.

(4) Use freed up left hand to anchor the barrel of the syringe.

(5) Holding the barrel of syringe in place with left hand, pull back slightly on plunger using index finger and thumb of right hand. (following the principles of Neutonian physics you will find yourself applying an imperceptibly small pressure on the barrel in the opposite direction during the process) :)

(6) If you don't see blood entering syringe, depress barrel of plunger all the way using right hand while still holding barrel with left hand.

(7) Keep needle all the way for a few seconds before withdrawing syringe at the same angle it went in.  This helps to make sure the meds stay in.

(8) Dispose of needle, bandaid and clean up, etc, and go back to your favorite TV show.

------------
Sounds complicated but actually quite intuitive once you go through it a couple of times. What's complicated to me is Rock's eating, supplement regimen. Now THAT I'd have a hard time following :)

[jmjm530]

I should probably add that while both the manufacturer's instructions and my doctor suggested I pull back on the barrel -- the technique of using my thumb and forefinger to pull back while anchoring barrel with other hand is not part of those instructions and just a method I personally found works. YMMV and I'm sure if Houdini had Hep C, he'd probably inject using his right toe to depress plunger.

[fishdoc]

you know, I am really relaxed with the injection mode because I have poked just about every kind of animal- and every conceivable screwup, I've done it on a critter! Never killed anything!!  Really, unless you have an anaphylactic reaction to the shot, your not going to do any real damage... with the redipen, you can't check for blood, so what does that tell us?  If you inject directly into a vein, the Rx is not going to be bad enough to cause a law suit!  Don't bother to pinch the skin if your uncomfortable, just poke and go....redipen, no recommendation for pinching...

You want to know fun, try putting a slug of 30cc of thick penicillin with an 18 guage needle in a 1200 lb horse that doesn't like needles twice a day for 10 days!!  Talk about making friends and influencing people!  Makes our itty bitty syringes seem like a piece of cake...And I'm willing to bet that thinking less and trying to relax will help.... too bad we can't recommend a glass of wine and some candlelight....  You will be fine.... it just takes a little time...

[jmjm530]

You do realize that The Redipen you use with Peg Intron is different from the pre-filled syringes Way and others have who use Pegasys. Each system has different instructions in regard to pulling back the plunger. If someone wants to deviate from the instructions that's fine, but they ought to know what the manufacturer recommends.

-- Jim

[hepcinsd]

After 14 shots I have yet to pull back to check for blood and the tx is working great at 4 and 12 weeks both clear. If you hit a vein you still get the dose but it enters the system faster so maybe sides a little quicker but don't worry, hardly any difference. Now this is both my experience and more importantly I asked my Dr the question.
Good luck, fight the fight!!

[sfbaygirl]

Well, if you are screwing the top off, you have to twist it, right? If it is nice and loose, then I suppose you can just pull it off ;)

So I suppose both work at various times!

[sfbaygirl]

What a visual that is! What happens when the horse goes to sleep like that? Does he fall off?

I have heard that word flag used when you pull blood into the syringe to make sure it is in the vein.

[fishdoc]

OK, this a new term in this application for me.  Flagging in my world is when the stallion mounts the mare, you know he ejaculated because he "flags", whips his tail up over his back momentarily...of course his eyeballs also roll back in his head, and he immediately falls asleep....

so registering blood in the syringe is flagging?

[Hepkitten]

Just reading this thread is making me feel faint.
Yes, I'm deathly afraid of needles yet i have been administering interferon to hubby for 5 months. And procrit for 2 months.
No, I never pull it back, have never figured out how to do it without screwing up and believe you me, it's hard enough for us both to be calm so  I figure as long as the stuff gets in, it's ok. Doc said if you hit a vein you may have worse sx, like the first week of tx. Nothing serious.
I haven't even had the guts to watch the video yet for fear that I will pass out.
PS I have tiny girl hands and the syringes they gave us with Procrit were 3 ml, which neither of us could handle. I made the doc prescribe 1 ml shooters and now it is sooo much easier. Just in case anyone is in the same situation....