OH NO! I forgot to back off the plunger!!

[way]

What an idiot I am. I'm starting to get a little bruise at injection site and it is just a little tender.

What if it was in a vein? Will I still get my dose???

I want you guys to know that I'm asking you before even calling calling the numbers that I have for nurse assistance. Probably a quicker response.

I've been meaning to post and ask what would happen if this occurred, but didn't get around to it. I am still a bit of a clutz when doing the injection. It really seems like you need three hands. One to pinch one to inject and ANOTHER to back off the plunger(to see if in a vein). I thought about using a bag clip(really) to pinch the skin so then I'd have two hands to do the rest. I'm not really that good with my right thumb as I've had three surgeries on unlner tendon.

[Hepkitten]

Just reading this thread is making me feel faint.
Yes, I'm deathly afraid of needles yet i have been administering interferon to hubby for 5 months. And procrit for 2 months.
No, I never pull it back, have never figured out how to do it without screwing up and believe you me, it's hard enough for us both to be calm so  I figure as long as the stuff gets in, it's ok. Doc said if you hit a vein you may have worse sx, like the first week of tx. Nothing serious.
I haven't even had the guts to watch the video yet for fear that I will pass out.
PS I have tiny girl hands and the syringes they gave us with Procrit were 3 ml, which neither of us could handle. I made the doc prescribe 1 ml shooters and now it is sooo much easier. Just in case anyone is in the same situation....

[fishdoc]

OK, this a new term in this application for me.  Flagging in my world is when the stallion mounts the mare, you know he ejaculated because he "flags", whips his tail up over his back momentarily...of course his eyeballs also roll back in his head, and he immediately falls asleep....

so registering blood in the syringe is flagging?

[sfbaygirl]

What a visual that is! What happens when the horse goes to sleep like that? Does he fall off?

I have heard that word flag used when you pull blood into the syringe to make sure it is in the vein.

[sfbaygirl]

Well, if you are screwing the top off, you have to twist it, right? If it is nice and loose, then I suppose you can just pull it off ;)

So I suppose both work at various times!

[hepcinsd]

After 14 shots I have yet to pull back to check for blood and the tx is working great at 4 and 12 weeks both clear. If you hit a vein you still get the dose but it enters the system faster so maybe sides a little quicker but don't worry, hardly any difference. Now this is both my experience and more importantly I asked my Dr the question.
Good luck, fight the fight!!

[jmjm530]

My understanding is that Shearing's instructions for the Peg Intron Redi Pen do not involve "flagging" or pulling back on the plunger prior to injection. However, Roache's instructions for the Pegasys pre-filled syringes do indicate the plunger should be pulled back prior to injection to check for blood.

Part of the difference may be in the two types of delivery systems being used with the Peg Intron Redipen having a shorter needle. While for the most part it's true that veins will not be found in fatty tissue areas, this is not always the case and pulling back acts as a safety valve.
This is all explained in detail at Roache's web site.
Link here: http://www.pegasys.com/pdf/self_inj_guide.pdf

Personally, in the beginning I didn't pull back partly because the nurse told me it wasn't necessary and partly because I feel I had the dexterity. After a similar experience to the one posted, my doctor told me to pull back before each shot and I did so for the rest of treatment. If you release the pinch as instructed and anchor the barrel with the free hand, it's really not that difficult.

-- Jim

[fishdoc]

you know, I am really relaxed with the injection mode because I have poked just about every kind of animal- and every conceivable screwup, I've done it on a critter! Never killed anything!!  Really, unless you have an anaphylactic reaction to the shot, your not going to do any real damage... with the redipen, you can't check for blood, so what does that tell us?  If you inject directly into a vein, the Rx is not going to be bad enough to cause a law suit!  Don't bother to pinch the skin if your uncomfortable, just poke and go....redipen, no recommendation for pinching...

You want to know fun, try putting a slug of 30cc of thick penicillin with an 18 guage needle in a 1200 lb horse that doesn't like needles twice a day for 10 days!!  Talk about making friends and influencing people!  Makes our itty bitty syringes seem like a piece of cake...And I'm willing to bet that thinking less and trying to relax will help.... too bad we can't recommend a glass of wine and some candlelight....  You will be fine.... it just takes a little time...

[jmjm530]

I should probably add that while both the manufacturer's instructions and my doctor suggested I pull back on the barrel -- the technique of using my thumb and forefinger to pull back while anchoring barrel with other hand is not part of those instructions and just a method I personally found works. YMMV and I'm sure if Houdini had Hep C, he'd probably inject using his right toe to depress plunger.

[jmjm530]

Way: I know you are not supposed to pull back very far at all and I can't even tell half the time if I've even moved it.
---------------------------------------------------
I had the same problem until I stopped backing off with my thumb, and instead used my thumb and forefinger to pull back on the plunger which gave me twice the leverage

To clarify since we have no video, this is what I do:

(1) Pinch skin left with  hand.

(2) While still holding the pinch, inject the needle in.

(3) When needle is all the way in, release the pinch which now frees up my left hand.

(4) Use freed up left hand to anchor the barrel of the syringe.

(5) Holding the barrel of syringe in place with left hand, pull back slightly on plunger using index finger and thumb of right hand. (following the principles of Neutonian physics you will find yourself applying an imperceptibly small pressure on the barrel in the opposite direction during the process) :)

(6) If you don't see blood entering syringe, depress barrel of plunger all the way using right hand while still holding barrel with left hand.

(7) Keep needle all the way for a few seconds before withdrawing syringe at the same angle it went in.  This helps to make sure the meds stay in.

(8) Dispose of needle, bandaid and clean up, etc, and go back to your favorite TV show.

------------
Sounds complicated but actually quite intuitive once you go through it a couple of times. What's complicated to me is Rock's eating, supplement regimen. Now THAT I'd have a hard time following :)

[fishdoc]

I can absolutely vouch for no vascularization in fatty tissue, just ask my hubby when he snuggles up to the butt that ate manhattan on a cold night ;)

[way]

Well the idiot(everyone today)nurse that gave the vaccination did pull it back and guess what--- BOTH injection sites (BOTH ARMS) are still sore after a month. Did they screw that up.

BTW anyone know how long you are supposed to wait after vaccinations to get an antibody blood test to see if the vaccinations took??? I guess it would (of course) be after the first vac. which for one(a or B?)is 6 mos. after first vac. I'll be through treating by then!! Did that make sense??

While I've got you here did you post below about the deoderant (speed stick) I don't remember which thread it was on because it mutated.

[way]

Ok I won't worry and I'll stop trying to pull that out and just fire it in. Thanks guys!!

[jmjm530]

I'm sure everything will be OK. Apparently what you're doing wrong is trying to hold the pinched skin while pulling back which does require three hands. What you do is pinch the skin with let's say the left hand, insert the needle with right hand, then release the pinched skin with left hand after needle is inserted. Now you can use your free left hand to anchor the barrel of the plunger while you pull back and inject with right hand. I also found it helped to twirl the plunger a little prior to starting to loosen the barrel up some. Hope this helps.

-- Jim

[lilmoma]

I never flag.

[way]

ok

[jmjm530]

Fish: Don't bother to pinch the skin if your uncomfortable, just poke and go.
-------------------------------------------
My ex-girlfriend whould say that' kinda rushing it, ya know.

---------------

BTW, animals aside, here's some definitive plunger technique
http://www.ehow.com/how_383_unclog-toilet.html

[way]

I'll try that.(I use pegasys prefilled syringes)

[jmjm530]

As I mentioned earlier, you might try "twirling" the plunger a few times to loosen it up prior to pulling back. By "twirling" I do not mean pushing it in or out but simply moving it around so it doesn't feel as sticky when you pull back. The key again is to anchor the barrel with your other hand so you don't accidently pull the needle out. All the best.

-- Jim

[jmjm530]

Should probably add that you only pull back slightly. As soon as you see something clear enter the barrel you can now depress the plunger. Of course if the barrel starts filling with a red fluid that means you hit a vein and I believe Roache suggests you discard the syringe, however some of our doctors have suggested you can simply move the needle to another location and try again. In 54 shots I probably pulled back the last 44 and never did hit a vein but what I did gain was a little more peace of mind knowing I hit the fatty tissue which I had less and less of as my weight decreased during treatment.

-- Jim

[jmjm530]

You do realize that The Redipen you use with Peg Intron is different from the pre-filled syringes Way and others have who use Pegasys. Each system has different instructions in regard to pulling back the plunger. If someone wants to deviate from the instructions that's fine, but they ought to know what the manufacturer recommends.

-- Jim

[jmjm530]

SF: I TWIST not PULL.
----------------------
Whatever turns your partner on :)

[jmjm530]

Thanks. A lot of the problems is how badly written some of the instructions are.

You'll notice that the link I posted above suggests holding the pinch while you inject which I suppose would involve pulling back with the thumb on same hand. Now that would be a good trick!

The handout I got with my starter kit (same company) mentions releasing the pinch which would allow the other hand to anchor the shot.

Of course we're all different and have different amounts of fat, so while the 45 degree angle is probably safest recommendation for everyone, in reality those with more fat can probably inject straight in and those with very little fat may have to cut down the angle.

Same with releasing the pinch. If you have to inject into an area with almost no fat, you might not be able to release the pinch and therefore may have to shoot blind although reducing the angle to less than 45 degrees usually does it. I ended up with this predicament after losing 30 pounds and therefore stopped injecting in my skinny thigh and went back to the fatty areas in the abdomen. The irony is that 16 weeks post treatment I've gained back the 30 pounds and maybe a few more which would make injecting now really easy. But I'm not tempted to try :)

-- Jim

-- Jim

[way]

The paperwork and video and teaching said(and showed)to release the pressure of the pinch while still holding the pinch. Which as you said a good trick requiring three hands. And yes they advocate the method of "backing off the plunger" with the thumb..actually the thumbnail side(that winds up being the side) of the thumb which requires alot of dexterity and actual strength because it could slip off being two smooth surfaces.

I can't see if clear fluid is going in even with reading glasses --just if blood is not...
I know you are not supposed to pull back very far at all and I can't even tell half the time if I've even moved it.

I will try twirling it as you said thanx.

Way

[stangshelly]

i inject in the stomach and never pinch,the veins are usually to deep to hit there, it allows you to pull back on the plunger. i've pulled  back blood before but injected..no problem..don't worry,with these shots the just have to be under the skin, the h a,b series are to be intramuscular which is directly in the muscle the needle is longer and your arm or a$$ is sore for awhile..i can always tell after the peg i get metallic taste in my mouth almost immediately. :)