Sleep aides and anti depressants

I asked my doctor for some ambien yesterday. I had heard on this forum that many of you take it. I have been having alot of trouble sleeping. I usually wake up at 3:30 in the morning and can't go back to sleep. I tend to lay there and worry or think.  I also have many nights that I stay up until 2 0r 3 in the morning because I feel to wound up to go to bed or if I lay down, I get those awful joint and muscle aches and am in to much pain to sleep. I asked my doc for sleep aides in the past and he just told me to take a motrin, aleve, or tylenol Pm. These sometimes help with the pain but don't help me sleep. Yesterday when I asked  for the ambien, he told me that he didn't like to use it because it was not good for my liver. He gave me a script for 50 mlg. Trazadone. Well my pharmacist told me that Traz.. is an AD and I'm already taking 225 mlg. of Effexor.  So my questions are...Is it OK to take this much AD(these two together)? Does anyone else use Traz.. to help with sleep? And how does it work for you? I took one last night, and allthough, I could fall back asleep, I kept waking up. It was hard to get up this morning to send my 12 yr old off to school. I feel that I am not getting enough quality or REM sleep.

           Thanks for listening :), hopefully someone can advise.
                                               berlynn

[lackalustre]

sleep has been an issue for me all along.  from the 1st injection of interferon i was wired tight.   3 mon post tx.  im still about 1/2 wired too.   i used ambien all during tx. for sleep and trazadone.  i believe trazadone and effexor can be mixed.  i only use low dose 25 mg a nite and i mix it with other sedative drugs still. sometimes i use a little phenergan(prescribed for nausea during tx.) or zanax.  ive just heard theres a new drug out-  the same as tylenol PM without the tylenol at walmart.
   from others ive spoken to trazadone is good for sleep.  although i still have vivid long drawn out dreaming.

[GettingWell]

I would look for another Doctor. Anyone who tells you to take Tylenol when you already have a "challenged" liver does not know what he/she is doing.

[big chuck]

I've had trouble with sleep for many years, and have tried about everything. What works best for me is to stay as reasonably active as possible without causing excess fatigue. This is different for everyone. when i just can't sleep I take 10mg Valium and SLEEP! I only have to take v's 2-3 times a month in summer, but 2-3 times a week in winter. I have a hard time getting motivated to work on inside machines vs. walking. GOLF FOREVER!.   big chuck

[breealee]

i was under the impression that tylenol is processed through the kidneys not so much the liver.am i mistaken?

[jonihs]

Tylenol overdose can cause liver damage. I have "barely" compensated cirrhosis, and can take absolutely NO tylenol. However, when there is little or no liver damage tylenol is okay, but I would only take it occasionally if it were me. Ask your G.I. what he/she recommends.

[AK - Hepper]

Doc told me no more than 2 grams Tylenol a day, = 4 extra strengths, like Joni said this depends on liver condition.
I think most of the sleep problems are caused by the ad's, I'm not on them and I sleep great. I guess it's a trade off, if you have to have ad's your sleep is going to suffer, but you gotta do what you gotta do. Ask your doc for some vicodin, great for pain, just has a little tylenol and helps you sleep too. I take a half of one when I get the liver ache and knocks it right out.

[giddyup]

My understanding is that small doses of Tylenol are ok if your doc thinks your liver is up to it.Like Ak Hepper I like the vicodin/tylenol mixture as I find it an effective pain reliever. Ambian is a great sleep aid.I just started compazine yesterday for nausea.Yesterday was the worst day of tx for me.I had an almost inescapable nausea the whole day and then some- eeeww one of the worst days of my life.

[DH Bill]

What a coincidence. I'm on 150mg of effexor (yes vivid dreams when I do sleep). I talked to my doc last Thursday about not sleeping and terrible aches and pains.
He gave me trazadone 50 mg which is an AD and for sleep. He said it would work well with the effexor. It worked well for 2 nights but that was it, I was awake all night last night. I just got off the phone with the nurse and she said to try 100mg 2 pills and let her know. He gave me presription ibuprophen which is ok for me in moderation as my liver is not bad off but not good for some of us.
I said I felt like a hypocodriac with the aches and pains but she said it was normal you DO ACHE. I said I don't like taking more drugs but she said we need to do what is neccasary to  get through tx as comfortable as possible.

[Bodie]

I take Xanax 2mg at night and Prozac 40 in the morning. I have had extensive surgery on my back and neck from a car wreck that I had in '95. Although I take Lorcet and Oxycontin for pain the doc said that I am responding great. My liver functions are back to normal. I have had 7 surgeries on my neck and back in the last 8 years and didn't know that I had hep C. I had been taking the pain meds for my neck and back a long time ago and since I have started tx, I have not had any problems. The Xanax really helps me sleep and the Prozac keeps the riba-rage at bay.
Try to see if you can take the xanax only at night before sleep and it will help you sleep thru the pain. That is the only way I can sleep.
If your doc is not helping you, find another one. He doesn't have to lay there all night hurting. And not being able to sleep deprives you of the rest your body needs to stand tx
Good Luck
Bodie

[psychdoc]

Trazadone is an antidepressant that does not work well for depression, however, it generally causes sedation so many doctors give it for sleep. It can cause oversedation and the hangover feeling in the morning but can be taken with Effexor. Ambien seems to be the sleep aid of choice. It has a relatively short half life and is not as addictive as other benzodiazepines. For something over the counter try benadryl up to 50 mg at bed. When I have a suggestion for my Dr. and he refuses to honor this, I want a good reason. If he can't give me a good reason after I have done my research I would consider changing doctors.
Take care,
Barb

[indyjo]

Trazadone is an antidepressant that is frequently prescribed as a sleep aid. 50 mg. is a small dose compared to ~400 mg. which is typical when the med is prescribed as an antidepressant. Trazadone seems to cause daytime sleepiness for the majority, and one of the side effects is insomnia. Go figure.

[MajNeni]

Benadryl is the sleep-aid in Tylenol PM.

[new-sojourn]

Smoke a joint.

As to what is liver friendly, nothing is.  So choose your poisons wisely.  That includes everything you eat, drink, breath or put in or on your body.

[berlynn]

Thanks to all of you for your answers and support.  I wish it was that easy to just change dr.s but how do ya know who is really good and not exchange one evil for another?  Also, I'm 23/48 and it's really scary to think of finding someone new at this point. Do I sound like a baby,,waaa waaa??? Sorry, this is all so overwhelming and without the support and info I;ve recieved from a few of you, I would be all alone in this black hole. When I was in the ER a couple of weeks ago, I was told that my wbc was so low that I should be taking Neupogen. I asked my dr about it yesterday and he said that I was borderline and right now I could do without it.??? Neutros were at 1.3, so again I haven't got a clue. I didn't really want to do another kind of shot anyway, but I want to do whatever it takes to make this tx work. Being a 1a, I feel that the only way I will have success is if I do everything I can to make my body  the right environment for tx to work.

DH, it seems like we have alot in common. It really helps to hear from you cause I feel like you must know a little of how I feel.  Thanks, and please keep in touch.

Everyone,  If I sound desperate, well yes sometimes I feel that way. Can anyone reccomend a "good" site for chat on HepC. I have learned alot and will continue to learn from this site, but sometimes I feel so alone that I would like to be able to e-mail someone or to talk to someone more instantaniously. I have never used a chat site before (I know, I'm behind the times).  Which is why I would only want to go to a site that is reccomended by one of you guys who knows what a struggle this is and has more pc experience than I do. Thanks again,   berlynn
                                        www.***@****

[AK - Hepper]

try hepatitisneighborhood, I heard that was a good chat site

[berlynn]

Thanks for your help, I will try it. :)  berlynn

[DH Bill]

Glad you posted about trazadone cause I found it wasn't consistant either. What time before bed do you take it?
And hey girl! 2 wks post tx woooo hooooo! Hang in there.


MN: The "mail in the hand" made me laugh again. I am checking my fly twice now before I leave the house:)

[DH Bill]

I took the 2 pills of trazadone last night "early" cause it makes me groggy in the morning. I also laid on a heat pad for my upper body pains before bed. I finally fell asleep and had the best sleep in a long time. I also cut back water early also so I wouldn't have to get up. I feel really good this morning. My doc also said I was close to taking procrit or something but said to wait until it may be necessary. I do trust my doc but I'm not stupid either.
HEY! your half way there and I'm jealous. HANG IN THERE AND YOU WILL BE HAVING DRAGON BBQ SOON AND THIS WILL ALL BE A DISTANT MEMORY.YOUR NOT ALONE!
Bill

[MajNeni]

One encouraging fact is that if and when you get Neupogen, it is fast acting.  WBC of 1.3 sounds like you're low enough.  What is the ANC?  WBCxNeutrophils or bands+segs?  That's in the differential part of the CBC report.  At this point, your CBC's should be "with differential" to break down the various components of the WBC and RBC.  Maj Neni

[berlynn]

Layla/ Everyone;       I

[MajNeni]

Your WBC = 2.0, RBC= 3.79, segmented Neutros= 50, Bands= 0,
This is not too bad. You add Neutros + Bands=50.  That's like 50% out of 100, cuz in the differential they look at 100 white blood cells under a microscope and count how many of each type there are.  So now:
  .50 x 2.0(your WBC) = 1.000 (your Absolute Neutrophil Count)
Your ANC is 1.0.  That's pretty good.  Your doc wants to keep it over .750 if possible, and definitely above .500 (they may say
750 or 500).  Usually if you can't keep ANC in the mid-700's or higher, they go to Neupogen.  The ANC number is more critical than the WBC number.
(Your red blood cells are holding at a pretty good level.  There, it is the HGB (HG) and HCT that indicate how well you can distribute Oxygen around your body; keep that HGB above 10.)

Accupuncture sounds good to me if you have a good practicioner.  It's a non-drug method, so it should not conflict at all with the tx.  It can certainly do a lot to control pain, tension, etc; in China they do major surgery with acupuncture in lieu of anesthetics.  I don't know how it works.
Don't worry about "ignorant" or whatever questions.
Maj Neni

[DH Bill]

I am on pegasys, 1b, doing shot 16 in a few minutes That is how the trazadone affected me until I doubled the dose last night. I'm a big guy and usually need more than some and a lot of stuff affects me opposite than it's supposed to, my 29 yr old son is the same way. I'm going to give it till Monday when I get blood work done and if not working will ask for Ambian.
Those boys are pretty resilient, just give him back a lotta love and support. My son at 29 is my best friend.
It's starting to snow right now and supposed to get into the single digits by Sunday. Brrrrrrrrrrr! Just keep on keepin on.
Bill

[DH Bill]

Forgot. For what it's worth and I don't know if this is the case but me and my sister were raised by my mom.

[cindee]

I am also on trazadone. We started out w/50mg, but it didn't work...so we tried ambien....that didn't work, so now I am on 150mg of trazadone....I also take 30mg of lexapro...and I take klonapin....supposed to 4x a day....but I'm weaning myself off of those and I'm taking 2 a day. I hope this note finds you doing good.....THE DRAGON WILL DIE!!!!!!! ~Cindee~

[MajNeni]

Well, I didn't drop the mail in the other hand...  MN

[cindee]

I forgot to say ...sometimes the trazadone works and sometimes it doesn't. I have been awake all nite before, many times. But I'm now 2wks post tx and I still have really bad days....fatigue, crying, muscle pains, joint aches and headaches. I did have 2 good days, 4days after tx....but then it laid me back down again....like I've said before...I guess I'm just sick and tired of being sick and tird!!!!

[layla]

I can't remmeber if your on pegasys or pegintron. Pegasys has a new website started last week. pegssist.com and it has a buddy list so you can make and meet persons there along with other features like tx calender etc. I haven't used it but read about it. You'll need to register but it's free. LL

[cindee]

hi thanks for the woo hoo!!! lol! Well I took 2 tylenol pm's tonite about 9:30....@ 11:20 I couldn't take laying in the bed anymore...so I got up and took 1/2 of 150mg trazadone. It's now 1:10 a.m. and I am wide awake!!!!!!!!!!! I usually take it right before I go to bed....w/ a full glass of h2o. Guess it's gonna be another sleepless nite. Oh well I'm used to it by now. Hope you are doing good. p.s. the reason I tried to sleep w/o the trazadone is because I had to be somewhere early and I didn't want to sleep late. Sometimes when I take trazadone I sleep for 10 to 16 hrs. can ya say fatique????? I THINK SINCE I HAVE FINISHED TX I NEED TO CHANGE MY NAME....~Cindee~ prayers to all~

[berlynn]

Maj,  thank you for interpreting my info. I feel like a lot of this stuff is way over my head, but I

[berlynn]

DH Bill,   I thought I had remembered you were on pegasys too. Do you know what the difference is between 1a and 1b?  Shot 16,  you

[berlynn]

Cindee,  WOW, don

[DH Bill]

From what I'm learning there is not much dif between 1A or 1B.
I am taking trazadone between 5&7pm. I'm not bad in the morning that way. The double dose seems to be working but nurse said try not to take it every night only when I have to.
I think we shouldn't worry about getting of this stuff now if we follow our instructions. When the time comes there will be a lot of good advice on this site. JUst keep goinfg forward.

[berlynn]

Maj... what a visual!! The way I feel like a look now, I think my neighbor would have turned tail and run...lol.. Have a great weekend,   berlynn

[MajNeni]

Some time back, folks who finished tx reported that once tx was over, they got off the sleep aids pretty well.  Just didn't need them.  Just to be on the safe side, try not to take them every night!
Maj Neni

[nany61]

Hi there, i have been on both treatments, but never finished either one.  The last time i lasted nine of the longests months ever.  They had to take me off, i thought i was going crazy.  They wanted me to give it a break for 2weeks and then go back on.  After that 2weeks i felt so good i said FORGET it, and stayed off.  I had all my lymnodes swell up, and they had said if they didn't go down, they would need to do  a biopsy.  I take effexor and have been on 5mg of clozapm, one everynight for a couple of years now.  The hep plays with your brain alot, with brain fog to short, short memory i find and very frustrated.       I had a really sad experience the other day, and i broke down.  I recently ended a relationship a couple weeks ago.  This nice guy(thought) was asking about me, when somewho he heard of my dragon.  Needless to say he told a friend of mine it was to bad, but he would never come near me, doesn't want to catch what i had.  When i heard, i first cryed, then got angry, then went numb.  People and there ignorance, i could scream.  Had dreams, everytime i walked down the street people were pointed and saying"Nice lady, to bad she has hep.  I feel i will be alone forever.  sometimes a good thing, sometimes its sad.  Anyone gone through something like that?? thank god i have my family, children and the most loving grandchildren.