Some Vitamins May Increase Risk of Death

[jmjm530]

FWIW:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/medicine/story/0,,2023120,00.html

[jmjm530]

Here's a little more meaty take on the studies:
http://www.playfuls.com/news_005056_Can_Vitamins_Kill_You.html'

Note, however, at the end of both articles are those that say the study is flawed. What study doesn't appear to have any flaws these days :)

[erin_vere]

Which ones? The link doesn't work for me.

[erin_vere]

I'm 50 but don't take iron. I have hepatitis. My biopsy showed stage 2 damage. I am sitting on a fence.

[B_Niel]

if your a man and waitng for tx, you may want to consider my question above. there is just stuff they don't tell us

[Myown]

I saw this the other day. They always come out with something like this. They were saying vit. C at one point was harmful too. The government is actively trying to make it that we need a prescription for vitamins. hmmm Wonder why?

Plus most doctors know very little about vitamins, unless they are holistic so how can they write scripts?

If I remember correctly this latest study didn't exactly have all health and fitness guru's in it. If you do a study with people hanging on by a string to life to begin with, the results may be a little off.

I never pay any attention to any of these  vitamin studies. I am my own study. All my friends who don't take vitamins, let themselves get 'chubby,' don't exercise all think I spend too much money on vitamins. Meantime they are all on meds for cholestrol,or BP etc.

I think everyone including doctors should read Life Extension for at least a year and look at some of the studies that they put in their magazine. It is a worthwhile read. I'm glad my PCP reads it all the time.

I wish you would get really into vitamins (I know you are more and more) cause you really research to the max.

see ya later.

[B_Niel]

vitamen c make my wife and my stomach sick.  it burns.  other people say that to.  it is better to eat oranges and lean beef, and pork and vegetables. to get iron and vitamins

[Myown]

You know whats funny though? The commercials for all the different drugs that mention all the side effects ,funny the way they sneak them in too, at a rapid speed. If vitamins ever caused all or anywhere near all the sx that meds do, they would be pulled off the shelves.

But anyhow I do really hope that you do get more and more into vitamins cause I really do admire the amount of research you put into studying a subject.

Btw bug just got new riba too and her expiration is April 07. Just to carry her over until her order comes, but still,its weird that there are so many pills that have not been sold already. I may have to call the mail order like ya said, This is bugging me.

see ya

[Forseegood]

I read this article with interest, and I think it's more of the same from the medical establishment...first of all, they do a "meta-analyses" of studies, meaning they look at the data of all these various kinds of studies and study groups, then come to some kind of "conclusion" based on some of what they think are the best studies, still including data on some of the more inferior studies, just a whole lotta studies are included...firstly, say one of the studies was a bunch of older people, (and some of them were) in their 60s and 70s...

And some were people who were feeling ill with various diseases, and are decidedly getting older....many of these types of people are more likely to take Vitamin C, and E, A and all the rest of it, along with a lot of other groups of people...but some of these people have one foot in the grave as it is (to use an insensitive term) does anyone think it fair to include these study groups, if youre trying to assess the possible cost/benefit of these substances? There were just hardly any controls on most of these studies...

There is a group of people who really don't like eating that well at all, and/or exercising, etc. and some of these types of people hope to get rid of their guilty consciences by eating a lot of supplements, hopefully thinking that's all they have to do for their overall health, these types of people are also included in these study groups as well...

I feel no amount of supplementation is going to help a person who otherwise has a decidedly "unhealthy" lifestyle, maybe a little bit, they might be better off taking them then not, but I can't see how this group's supplement taking could be quantifiable as well as all these others..how many of them smoke? drink heavily? take other drugs? have extremely stressful lives, or low stress?

There are also supplements and there are supplements, I personally don't think most sythesized vitamins or many multi's are worth all that much, (it's too hard to get enough of any one supplements in a multi, unless youre talking only about one two or three supplements) I know there are many here who take them, but I don't think that they are all that effective for the most part, just my opinion, no offense to anyone...We also have to talk about regimens, QUANTITYS of supplements being taken....and in what combinations? These are all important factors and they are all over the place in these studies...

There are also questionable vitamins included in many of these studies, like Vitamin A and a few others..Vitamin A is  a perfect example of something that can be toxic in the higher doses, there are many people who shouldn't even be taking vitamin A, like many of us for example...

I also think supplementation can be a little more toxic if there arent detox periods from time to time, where you quit taking them for a period, say a week to a month, to make sure there isn't any build up in fat of the non-fat soluble supplements, etc...many people don't do this...

And many people dont get tested for vitamins that perhaps they shouldn't even be taking...And many people don't know a whole lot about supplements and just pop things in their mouths...so you see there are so, so many variables in these studies that would have the potential to skew the ultimate results...

Not to mention that I think supplementation, etc. isn't readily excepted in many medical establishments, it's not their area....they don't study them or have a lot of expertise in them, doctors and researchers who do are in the small minority...To me, it would seem, that it was this it was mostly this type of doctor who were conducting many of these studies, from everything that I can see....Not to say there is a conspiracy against the supplementation industry, I wouldnt go that far (and I do think there should be "some" regulation and oversight, but from indendent sources, not big pharma) but I would think you really need to know a vast amount about the subject, in order to conduct the studies and therefore know where to implement the controls...

Let's fact it, with most doctors - pharmeceuticals is their area of expertise....this is what they study in medical school....only now are they giving just a little bit of a nod to supplementation and diet, I think a couple of classes if I'm not wrong...

I find that most studies I read about are faulty in gathering specific data, they seem to be much better at getting generalizations that might or might not be true, but lean toward one way or the other...I think that's why studies will seem to contradict each other in many cases, and as time goes on...

One of the best studies I've ever read about is the big Nurses Horomnal Study - in studying certain types of hormones for women (and they still didn't have as many control groups as needed, I think they mostly had premarin, and none without, I might be wrong)...they followed thousands of nurses and took very comprehensive data on them, their total lifestyles habits....constantly asking them things on questionarres, (and even here, we have to make a little leeway for people who might be writing what they think they'd like to have happen, as opposed to being thoroughly honest) over years and years...but how many studies are conducted like this? Just my (way more then two cents:)

[Forseegood]

would also like to say that I have had to be my own guinea pig like My Own...every so often I go off my regimen, and I can feel and see the difference when I go back on...some say I'm psyching myself out (I wonder how that operates when I think one thing works for me and one doesn't, hmmmm?) but I can see for myself in even my labs, I do feel that what I take helps with inflammation issues...and I've never been one to say that these are cure-alls...

[Forseegood]

would also like to say that I have had to be my own guinea pig like My Own...every so often I go off my regimen, and I can feel and see the difference when I go back on...some say I'm psyching myself out (I wonder how that operates when I think one thing works for me and one doesn't, hmmmm?) but I can see for myself in even my labs, I do feel that what I take helps with inflammation issues...and I've never been one to say that these are cure-alls...

[ChrisDDD]

That was very helpful!  I think without a doubt those of us with Hepatitis C need to be well informed about everything that goes into our bodies.  Why?  In the past I have taken vitamins, minerals, etc. that I thought were helping me and was surprised when my doc asked me if I was taking anything except prescription drugs (like Klonopin, Synthroid).  When I told him some of the ones I was taking, he looked alarmed and said to stop taking them immediately.

I have a very sensitive stomach, so I always take meds or vitamins with food.  That may help B-Niel.  I had always made sure to eat plenty of iron-containing foods and vitamins from '76, when I was infected, till '98, when I found out I should AVOID iron.  Since then I take One-A-Day Over 50 or another multi-vitamin as long as it doesn't have iron, and I do take 2000 mg per day of Vitamin C.  I'm the only one around me who never catches the flu, even though I have HepC.  When not on treatment, I take Liver-Ite, sold by GNC, or milk thistle, which Liver-Ite already contains, but now I always ask my doctor before taking anything new.

Also because of my sensitive stomach I've always taken Tylenol for pain, as Motrin or Ibuprofen give me stomach-aches no matter how much I've eaten to coat my stomach.  I never knew it was bad for my liver until a few years ago, but sometimes I still have to take it.

The thing to remember is what I keep telling my well-meaning friend who thinks she can cure me with acupuncture and herbs when she urged me to eat fresh fruits and vegetables, especially spinach, which I now hardly ever eat, because it's loaded with iron.  As she went on with her dietary suggestions for me I said to her, "But you're not sick."  She said, "Yes, but these are just so good for you!" and looked at me with a puzzled look as I repeated slowly, "You're not sick!  You don't have Hepatitis C!  You have a healthy liver.  You're not sick!"  She looked at me sadly as I think she finally understood this reality, and gave me a big hug.

Finally (damn, my posts always get so long) I told her and tell other people who give me these suggestions about Gilda Radner's autobiography called "It's Always Something".  It's her account of her lost battle with ovarian cancer.  Toward the end of the chemo, she was just so tired of it all that she went to Mexico and got into a holistic healing program with all these herbs, believing she was getting better.  When she returned to the U.S., her lab work for her cancer was through the roof!  It had gotten much, much worse.  She died shortly after.

With no disrespect to my friend (one of many of my friends who believe in holistic and herbal remedies) HepC is a VIRUS that can only be killed with drugs.  It is not something you can visualize yourself out of or meditate it away.  If anyone has been able to, I'd love to know how!  I DO believe meditation and some holistic remedies are helpful in maintaining a healthy lifestyle and low stress, but I do NOT believe they can CURE HepC.