Stiff fingers and joint pain

I posted this on the other forum, but will try here, too. maybe with more luck.

I have been noticing during the last few weeks that my fingers have become a little stiff. Not very much, but it is a little uncomfortable. The middle joint of my right middle finger has been hurting for about a week and is slightly swollen. It is getting a little worse every day. It feels a bit hotter to the touch, than the others. (I did NOT hit or twist this finger)

Does anyone know what this could be? It kind of sounds like the onset of RA or RA in a mild form to me??? Could that be right?

FYI, I'm seeing my doctor about it next week.


Marcia

[Rockerforlife]

http://www.freewebs.com/stemcellscience/



Marcia...check out this ...this is the stem cells im talkn about...all my freinds and family take this for their aches and pains...IT FREAKN WORKS

[Rockerforlife]

Sorry...i said stem cells..its actually noe stem cells your taking...its just a safe strain of blue green algare "extract"..that really enchance stem cells for your own body...the bone marrow to be exact...i know it probery sounds to good to be true and stuff...but i thought the same way first too...my mother even takes the stuff

[Marcia2202]

Thanks Rocker, I noted the stem cell supplement when we messaged each other on all kinds of alternative stuff, remember.  I'm just trying to find out what it could be first. ANd then I'll look into, if I wanna take the stuff while on tx.

Marcia

[Rockerforlife]

sounds like artritis  too me

[Rockerforlife]

Gonna head downtown to pick up a 16 gig usb pen drive...ya baby

[Marcia2202]

That was plain and simple. ROFL.

That's exactly what my husband said. He gets it sometimes in his hands. So do his mom and one of his sisters.

[Rockerforlife]

im was thinkn bout takin the stem enhance while on tx to ease the sx....but it seems doctors dont want ya to take any thing while on these tx drugs....i see their point tho...but really all stem enhacne is a super green food...its just food.

[Rockerforlife]

My moms hip pain went totally away
also my lady friends hip pain totally disappeared
this stuff i freakn love

[meki]

For me it was Neuropathy Marcia...

I'm telling you HCV can do a lot of horrid things to your body as it courses through --- it just does the most obvious damage to the liver.

I wish scientists would understand that it's not just the LIVER HCV kills - it kills every organ and other parts of nerves, cells and other things.

And the TX does not help reverse that kind of damage - and may make it worse - however - it won't be getting worse BECAUSE of the HCV from that point on.

So think of it as saving your life now --- and hopefully only getting a little worse.

Hugs Marcia.... Tightly.

Meki

[Marcia2202]

Thanks sweetie.

So one would think that this has been caused by HCV and could either worsen or not. It's the first inflammation of a joint in the finger I've ever had. It is still very minor and not so painful.

So only time will tell, if it should get worse or not. It's a gamble, like everything else with this disease.

Hugs back... I think of you often and what you are going through at the moment.

God bless, Marcia

[comeagain]

I think its very good you gonna start treament now.
I have been having this shiit HCV must probably for 35 years, and  have been having stiffnes in arms , hands and pain in joints etc etc for several years.

Just a couple of ours after taking a shot my hands starts to get stiff and heart a bit.

It seems that the meds are increasing pain and stiffnes while on tx.

I´ve said this before and its wearth repeting, after my first tx 24week long, pains and stiffnes I´ve had for +25years almost went away completely although i did relapsed.
Now on tx I´ve got some back but its not near what it was before first tx, I don´t no why but I think its the same for you.

Got a good feeling for you or is it just that I wish you well because you such a nice person.

Go for the tx Marcia you gonna be fine.

your friend

ca

[Krisso]

Hi Marcia,

Sounds like osteoarthritis to me.  I have it in most of the joints in my body, and while it was annoying before, it is really wearing me down now.  Joint pain seems to be often aggravated by Tx, at least for me.  In fact, the head, neck, shoulder and spine aches are the most devastating thing about these meds, which I've now been on for 47 weeks.  Don't get me wrong - the foggy headed, short tempered, itchy skinned, thin haired stuff are no picnic either.  :-)  
I was told by my nurse that HepC alone causes body/joint pain, and for many, Tx exacerbates it.  Anyway, not to be a bummer.  Maybe you'll have a much easier time of it.  That is my prayer for all the great folks here.           Blessings!

[comeagain]

let me be more precis during my first tx every pain increased about 10 times it was hell I felt like an invalid and it lastet 3 or 4 months post tx.
every time I should put don my feet while walking the dog I had to tip toe my way along the side walk and I´ve got so used to it that i thought this is how its gonna be for the rest of my life, only probebly worse.

This is the main reason why I´m back in hell this time for the double time period.
I hasn´t felt so strong and good for 25years as did between my treatments.

I´m aware its not so for everyone  .

[Marcia2202]

Thank you my friend, and thank you for your always so kind words. You are a very nice man yourself!

I sure hope this will go away and that I will not get to much pain on tx. Reading what mikkimoe is going through with her RA or meki with the neuropathy... it sounds kind of scary.

Actually all my toes feel a bit stiff and I have pain in my big toes, too. I had some gout in one of them 11 years ago. But now they are both hurting and they have been for a while. I have just gotten so used to it, that I didn't think about that there could be a connection. You know with all the heels and pointed shoes I have standing in my cupboard. I kind of stopped wearing them regularly about a year ago. If you were a woman you would know how much I hate not being able to wear them all the time! Anyway, I started to feel pain from the onset of bunion formation. But guess what I just read... RA is one of the risk factors for the development of bunions. Ha... one culprit found.  And .... HCV can be the culprit for RA... So there they are, obviously... laid out on the table... these buggers...

Marcia

[Marcia2202]

Thanks for your input.

Now I have been doing a lot of reading over the past  4 hours and from the symptoms I have it does not seem to be OA, but more probably RA, as it is in both hands and both feet and I have a swollen hot feeling joint.

It could maybe be gout, but I doubt it, even though I've had it once 11 years ago. Well the riddle will be solved once I've seen the doc. But it's always great to discuss things with all of you, before heading to the doc's office.

Marcia

[Rockerforlife]

I will promise if you try stem enhance aka,(AFA) your pains will all go away..you got my word...
some heathfood stores even sell samples...dont take much either to notice the effects...within hours..its pretty easy to get this stuff too.just got back from downtown.i got wacked by rain storm riding my bike....love gettn soaked in the acid rain...if da food additives dont get ya. da rain will.

[comeagain]

My mother has RA but she is eating crapy food such as white sugar white powder,wrong type of salt also been drinking the water from the tap.

I think both you and me benefits from heathy food habits, I´been in McDounalds tops 10 times all of my life. No tap water except when boiled, since I was 15 not smoking tobak for 17years no alcohol for 22 years no other drugs for 21years a lots of fresh air always.

Yea one drug I´ve been doing 1.5 liters of strong coffee every day.

I dont think you shall worry if pain increases during tx ( it did for me) just see it as that the meds are working.

ca

[alagirl]

Unfortunately, Yes, finger stiffness is a hallmarker of RA.  I can't remember if you are pre-treatment or during tx?  IN any case, you can get RA from the hepc alone OR from tx, or BOTH, lol, yeah, double the chances, so its fun.  But, there are several different hand deformities you can get, and you can google RA hand deformities which can quickly help you pinpoint what is going on with your own hands (or not) because there are some really basic things that happen in RA involving the hands.  Note that RA causing serious issues of the hands quickly denotes agressive RA so you would like to get that in hand quickly but you may not have that alternative until after tx because you are going to need to talk to a hepetologist about using biologics or steroids prior to tx end.

For instance, I have a problem where the tendon is so swollen in my index finger that it doesn't go back into its sheath so they will have cut the sheath opening apart wider to allow the tendon to slide into place.  I have a big nodule there now though where it catches and won't go into the sheath and it keeps it from sliding into the sheath.  Hoping I can get it fixed soon.   Also, you could get swelling in your knuckles, another sign.  There is a lot of lit on it though if you'll google.

[alagirl]

sorry, that'd be knuckles and the joint above it.

[Magnum]

At one point, I played the keyboards so much I had very similar pains and swelling as you described. In fact, it got so bad that in the morning when I woke up, I couldn’t make a fist with wither hand. I did not have Arthritis but was overworking the joints. As a temporary relief until you find out what it is, you may want to try what my Ortho told me to do.

If you have a double-sided sink, (or you can use two bowls), fill one side of the sink with hot water (as hot as you can stand), fill the other side with ice water (with ice cubes in it). Put your hands in either the cold or hot water to start with, for three minutes, then the other water for three minutes. Do this three times several times a day.

What this does is constrict and relax the capillaries, tendons and nerves, which brings the swelling down. It worked for me. Well worth a try. Good luck

Magnum

[Marcia2202]

I've never had unhealthy food habits. Always made food from scratch and also grew up that way. My mom was an artist silversmith and raised us that way. Her mom was like that. Her mom, a sculptor and painter, grew up on the family island of Romanö on Sommen. You know they made their own wine and everything there. At the bottom of the island was a whole garden with veggies and they hunted birds and fished. And in the summer they laid out the traps for the kräftor. Whatever that is in English, some kind of special crayfish form the lake. My mormor was the youngest of 9 and they all played music and painted., her dad was a painter and her mom was a chamber singer. A crazy Swedish artist family :-)

So sorry, just got carried away...

Anyway, I have only gone 100% organic since dx'ed in March. Stopped pot, 20 years ago, recreational drugs (the ones I did on occasional weekends) about 12 years ago, alcohol and cigs 10 years ago. Been vegetarian for almost 9 years now. And don't drink coffee. Might have a cappuccino once or twice a year, love it, and feel sick afterwards.

Just found an interesting link:

pcrm.org/health/prevmed/arthritis.html

Besides other things, it states....

A 1989 survey of over one thousand arthritis patients revealed that the foods most commonly believed to worsen the condition were red meat, sugar, fats, salt, caffeine, and nightshade plants (e.g., tomatoes, eggplant).3 Once the offending food is eliminated completely, improvement usually comes within a few weeks. Dairy foods are one of the principle offenders, and the problem is the dairy protein, rather than the fat, so skim products are as much a problem as whole milk.

[Marcia2202]

Thanks for the tip. Don't have double sided sink, but will use two bowls instead. I'm sure it's like hot and cold bath... it really gets the circulation going.

Marcia

[alagirl]

but for you to be having swelling, joint pain and inflammation and warmth to the joints, combined with stiffness, doesn't sound good, I'm sorry to say :(

[Marcia2202]

I haven't started treating. Having bx next Wednesday and doc app on Aug 5. I hope I can start tx right after that.

Am seeing my GP next Friday to get a referral for the rheumy. Etc...etc.. So it might take some time..

But as I said it is still minor. It doesn't even hurt enough to have to take anything against the pain and the swelling is very little. People wouldn't be able to notice it, if I don't point it out. The one on the finger is probably the first flare and it's minor.

I would prefer not to take any drugs, if I can avoid it. At least for the time being. But I'll follow your advice and will be vigilant, especially when on treatment.

I'm sorry you have to go through so much pain..

Thank you,

Marcia

[Marcia2202]

It's only on one joint of the middle finger of my right hand.

The toes are uncomfortable and hurt a little when I walk. As said I also have minor bunions. There is no swelling there.

The stiffness is not a major stiffness, just kind of noticeable, if you know what I mean. It does not interfere with any of my activities, nor slows me down typing.

[Marcia2202]

I'd love to try the stuff, but it will have to wait until after I have hopefully reached SVR. There is 427 IU vitamin A in it :-(  Not good for the hep c liver...

Marcia

[comeagain]

Just wanna say something about coffee drinking.

I´ve been ashamed because I have been drinking so much coffee, because I´ve got so much 12 step mumbojumbo in my brain I started the first NA group in Sweden but been mostly in AA.
Everything is alkoholic behavior I´m trying to clean my self from the negativ brainwash I´ve got from there.

Anyway I had a huge consumption of alchol for many years very huge for 7years.
I also been working with old furnitures with turpentine and i slept in those steams since I lived in my workshop for many years.

That and being infected since 1972-73 and getting the biopsy result that I´ve got grade 1 stage 0 is unbelivebul.
And my doc said the doc that checked my sample had to write inflamation (inflammation) grade 1 since he knowed i had HCV. If he had not known about the HCV the result would have came back a perfectely healthy liver.( My doctors words)

This is so rare that either its something wrong with the test or its gotta be the huge coffe consumtion.
My doc said it was 3.5cm test sample and that shall be very trustworthy
I dont trust him so much though, he had said some other very weird things.

If its the coffee that did the trick its my body who has told me to drink that massiv amounth and not some shameful alcoholic behavior.

The sence moral here is, listen more to you body then to you brain some times.

ca

[Rockerforlife]

New studies say small amonts of coffee are good for liver function....not a 5 gallon bucket full for breakfast.

[Rockerforlife]

There is 427 IU vitamin A in it :-(  Not good for the hep c liver...


i was waiting for you to notify me of this,,,,i read that too...but its a small amount compared to the amount ya get from a multiman I THINK ITS 10,000IU ...its a natural type too...how did you find the exact amout.....you are good. ...im impressed

[Rockerforlife]

Carrots, raw
1.00 cup
122.00 grams
52.46 calories
Nutrient Amount DV
(%) Nutrient
Density World's Healthiest
Foods Rating
vitamin A 34317.40 IU 686.3

[Rockerforlife]

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=21

[Rockerforlife]

We need some vit A tho...i dont eat lots of carrots...just apples

[Rockerforlife]

Two grams of AFA provide an equal amount of beta carotene to 80 grams of carrots, 1200 grams of iceberg lettuce, four tomatoes, or four cooked eggs. Critical Review in Food and Science and Nutrition, 1991.


http://www.klamathbluegreen.com/information-about-klamath-blue-green-algae/information-about-algae-klamath-lake-blue-green-algae-afa-blue-green-algae-blue-green.html?Itemid=33

[Rockerforlife]

BRAIN FOOD


"The greatest value of A.F.A. is not only its nutrient concentration, but its effect on the nervous system, specifically the pituitary, pineal, and hypothalamus. People taking A.F.A. have reported an overall increase in mental alertness, mental stamina, short and long term memory, problem solving, creativity, dream recall, a greater sense of well being and centeredness." Dr Gabriel Cousens, M.D., author in Body, Mind, Spirit, April 1995.

[merryBe]

I've had some really weird joint stuff throughout tx.
sometimes sharp pain where there never was...sometimes something stiffens for a few hours then is fine.
this month my hands froze from swelling and pain...from an hour of gardening...and now they are fine.
comes with tx from all I read.
your white cell count goes down and infalmmation is more common. doesn't mean you will end up with RA  permanently but does mean your autoimmune system will be out of whack until interferon levels and blood chemistry return to normal.
I use massage, and heat and icepacks. If your doc says it's ok to take an antiinflammatory do, but these and all pain meds are dependant on what stage/grade your liver is at, as to the wisdom of taking them.
From my years doing physical therapy: hydration is key, I disagree with coffee drinking it removes essential minerals crucial to cellular and cartilage maintanence.
Also, while yes vitamin A and D both can be toxic is over consummed, not having enough of either is also detremental to liver and general health. Read the research before taking anecdotal advise is my 2 cents.
Finger stiffness alone doesn't mean RA. One looks for swelling, twisting of the bone itself (like a corkscrew), clubbing and of course blood work to confirm.
Even if my ELISA or other blood work ups were to reflect some RA right now, I don't think I'd get too worried as long as I'm anticipating and end to this tx.
Also, you might want to think about Neupogen if your white count, platelets etc indicate it.
The health of your lymphic system is what determines your reactions or over reactions to joint wear and tear, so making sure you don't go too low on these could spare you a lot of infections and other sides.
Hope you feel better.
MB

[Marcia2202]

Thanks for all the info. And yes, I am actually feeling better!

Regarding massage, for years they were saying that one should not massage rheumatism.... as they used to call it. But that somehow never sat right with me.

Yesterday I did some googling on this and found that they advise massage, after having done a study on 1000 people on the effects of massage on RA. Therapist once a week and daily self massage was the protocol. So I found a video of a physical therapist showing how to massage the hands. Very simple circular motion around the joints and down towards the end of the extremities and then the other way and stroking to make the blood flow towards the heart. Total basic massage technique.

Last night I took out some pure 1st grade shea butter I had taken with me from Mali, the elderly swear by it in West Africa. (I had already made my own mixture from it. You boil it with lime or lemon and then strain it. Then I had added virgin coconut oil and some rose and patchouli essential oils. You can use this on your face and all over the body.) Anyway, last night I massaged my hands and feet with it before going to bed. This morning I woke up and they were to my astonishment less stiff, less painful and the swelling on the joint has gone down about 50%. It does NOT feel hot to the touch anymore. So I massaged again this morning and I will keep on doing this and hope it will get even better.

And then of course I will have the doctor verify what it really is. If it gets worse, I will try to stay away from any stronger meds, as long as possible. I think the whole tox thing will be plenty for me, someone who hardly ever even takes a paracetamol.

Marcia

[Marcia2202]

Thanks about the 'warning' on the vitamins. I've been doing my research and have all the supplements I need in place.

I'm getting enough vitamin A from my food and there is 200 IU in the neptune krill oil I have. I have been monitoring my vitamin D and have 400 IU in my multivitamin.

I will start taking all my supplements a few days after my biopsy. I didn't take them since 14 days before the biopsy, 'cause some of them are blood thinning.

Marcia

[Marcia2202]

Rock.... it says it on the fact sheet ;-)  I'm gonna 'duh' you now.... ROFL

I'm definitely getting enough vit A from my diet and those extra 200 IU.

RDA for females 19 yrs and older is 700 IU per day and Ul (upper limit) is 3000 IU
RDA for    males 19 yrs and older is 900 IU per day and Ul (upper limit) is 3000 IU

Having hepatitis C, one obviously should take less... so I'll stick to the 200 IU for myself, knowing that I also get an adequate amount from my diet.

My multivitamin has NO IRON and NO VIT A.

Marcia

[Marcia2202]

Very interesting about the coffee. I remember seeing a study on this, just a few months ago. We discussed it on the forum. If I remember correctly, they were talking about 6 cups a day. So you're drinking a bit more than that. And obviously it has helped you. Maybe it is not so good to drink that much and you could get down to 1 liter. But come on, you quit the drugs, you quit the booze, you quit the smoking... and you are taking very good care of yourself and your health. You should be proud of yourself and not beat yourself up about a few extra cups of coffee per day. It will come in due time.

My body just doesn't like it. It's too harsh. Each time I try, I get the same reaction. So I've learned to stay away from it.

Marcia

[sldb]

Prior to tx all finger joints painful, swollen and red.  Three months into tx all symptoms subsided and never returned.  Good Luck ...Leah

[Isobella]

The pain, swelling and heat in my right index finger-big joint at the bottom, is what lead to my being diagnosed with Hep C.  My primary sent me to the RA doc because my RA factor was slightyly elevated.  

Doing further blood work, the hep was found.  

My feet are also giving me trouble.  I am just now able to walk comfortably after 16 weeks of dealing with plantar fascaitis (sp).  And a bone spur.  

I am not taking any meds for either.  I was taking an n-said, but now just use massage and whirlpool therapy. Also, very picky about the shoes I wear.

My RA doc also said that my immune system had taken a hit - I was really sick last summer, before being diagnosed-and that my body was having a sustained inflammatory response.  That was the problem causing the joint pain-not RA, even tho blood levels were slighty elevated.

Looks like this is going to be a busy week for us.  Your biopsy on Wednesday and my first shot on Thursday. While I am at the Mayo, I will be thinking of you-in another hospital a world away-fighting the same dragon!!!!!!!!!

Wish you the best, sister-slayer!!!!!

[palmbeachinfo]

I copied an article for you

The trouble with having pain, numbness, tingling, stiffness, burning, or swelling in your wrists, hands, fingers, and thumbs is that it will be too quickly labeled arthritis, bursitis, tendinitis, carpal tunnel syndrome, or peripheral neuropathy.

It may surprise you to learn that these abnormal sensations rarely originate in the fingers and hands but are almost always the effects of trigger points in muscles of the neck, chest, upper back, shoulders, upper arms, and forearms. This is called “referred pain.” Trigger points typically send their pain elsewhere. a forearm muscle that operates the fingers, are the prime cause of stiff fingers.These same trigger points contribute to the pain of tennis elbow and send pain to the second knuckles of the third and fourth fingers. Knuckle pain referred from this muscle feels just like the pain of arthritis. You may have believed for years that you suffer from arthritis and it simply may not be true.
Sometimes, the hand muscles themselves can be the unrecognized source of problems in the hand.
Hope this helps by my  advice to you Marcia if your experiencing alot of pain in your fingers is to see a hand surgeon not to have surgery of course but to get trigger finger injections with cortisone shots to block the pain. I am getting shots on Wednesday I will tell you if I get alot of relief or not.

[Marcia2202]

Leah, that's great it went away with tx. I'm hoping for the same!

Isobella Thank you all for the info... I've had fatigue and weakness for 5 months now, and I guess that is what is bringing it forth. I'm also getting more muscle aches than I had before. Seems like everything has gotten worse, except the fatigue and brain fogg are a bit better than 3 months ago. But none of it is painful enough to have to take anything. I think this is what the elder feel like... you know what I mean.


Palmbeach... I do NOT have much pain at all. It is just kind of uncomfortable..
I most probably have had hep c for 25 years and RA would make more sense than anything else. Also from the symptoms I have it makes more sense.

Anyways, I will have the doc evaluate what I have very soon...


Marcia

[marsfreek]

joint pain is very common with hcv, however there is usually no inflamation (inflammation) or joint dammage. mine has increased steadily over the years and it aint no fun, it is a drag when i have trouble playing my guitar but i pain pill and i am back in the saddle and happily plunking away

[merryBe]

steroid injections have a downside for liver patients.

that's why I recommended massage and most folks can massage one hand with the other if the inflammation isn't too advanced.

cortisone is toxic to the liver at any age. Protocol originally was to not give shots to those under 70. (those over 70 yes, because they didn't need a liver that much longer).
Weird but those were words a doctor told me.

I make a fist with one hand, and gently use my good knuckles to massage the inflammed area of the other hand.
Several minutes of this brings all new blood and oxygen to the area. You can increased the circulation to an area threeefold this way.
The new blood feeds cells, and this alone allows inflammation (caused from waste) to be carried off.  

Marcia, I'd be careful of any perfumes oils while of tx because you can get a reaction when white counts are low. I ended up in ER from 2 drops of perfume once, so just know what one persons skin may tolerate may not be true for folks on Riba with all it's skin issues and Interferon compromising your immune system makes systemic histamine reactions much more common and a genuine concern.

As to the coffee drinking. The average cup of coffee contains 300 milligrams of speed.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize 6 cups a day would be 1800 milligrams,

or about 18 dexadrine or benzadrine or nodoz tablets...to see the equivalent.
in the PDR (physicians desk Reference) this amount carries warnings which include cardiac events.
Caffiene is a drug, and it is a duiretic removing both water and essential minerals and it is NOT condusive to better health no matter how many coffee industry sponsored (or airhead inspired) websites say otherwise.
This is about the equivalent of believing the old tobacco industry slogans that smoking is healthful and recommended by doctors!!  Sheesh.

mb

[palmbeachinfo]

Alot of doctors today realize that Cortisone shots are not healthy with patients who have hep C. So many doctors are not using Cortisone they are using  lidocaine which I believe is better for your Liver.

Yes, this might not be the best solution for many yet if the pain is so severe and if you have taken medicines such as: Nortriptyline and othere similiar to it might not work for you or you might have reactions. I am not telling anyone to get this procedure I am only suggesting this for someone who is in severe pain and has no other options. In Marcia's case she said the pain is "minimal" so this might not be the best option for her. Yet in my case I have the worst pains in my palms of hands, fingers and I have no other options.

[btsmith]

  Boy you sure get the posts.  I had it explained to me this way.  If it attacks one joint on the extemities especially the big toe or a fiinger joint it's called pseudo-gout and will bounce from joint to joint, maybe hitting three joints at once.  It is directly connected to hep C. or cirhosis.  If it flairs and you have your joint scoped, like I did and, they find no crystals it is not RA. You should know by now that joint pain is part of the deal.  
   I have my own theory though.  I think it has something to do with the capillary blood vessels ending in the joints and they cannot handle the virus or the drugs due to their sub-needle like size.  I don't know about others but my veins feel a little swollen at all times.  I have asked my pcp about this and he thinks I'm nuts anyway, but I think it has validity since if you can't find the crystals it defies bursitis, arthritis and RA.  
   Good to hear from you and I hope things are going well, as they can be.

B.T. Smith  

[Rockerforlife]

Try cherries for you gout and arthrithis.

[Marcia2202]

Thanks. Interesting... I 'd trade RA for gout any time.... I really hope it's that. I have had gout in one toe ca 11 years ago.

Am going to see my doc tomorrow.


Marcia

[Marcia2202]

Thanks for the warning. Since I have been dx'ed, I stopped spraying perfume directly on my skin. I spray it on my clothes instead. Also I have changed all my personal hygiene items, creams, etc to organic ones. So I guess I'm already on the right path.

The drops of essential oils I drop into the mixture, are just a few drops into ca 1/2 liter of shea butter and coconut oil. Less than fragrance found in any body or facial cream.


Marcia

[Marcia2202]

please explain further.

marcia

[froggierogerribbit]

Hey, Thanks Magnum...I have alot of arthritis, fibromyalgia and joint pain  My fingers at times and my knee at other times etc. One of my worst is nuropathy in my feet. I am going to try that hot and cold water. What do I have to lose? NOTHING!  Anyone else out there have any good tips for me?