Supplementation advice for Cirrhotics

[GoofyDad]

There's been a lot of discussion for mending a sore liver in this thread:

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/show/346752

I've just run across this, and thought it might warrant a thread of it's own....  

http://www.vitacost.com/Healthnotes/Concern/Liver-Cirrhosis.aspx

Be sure to scroll down to all the citations at the bottom. There's some really interesting stuff in here.

[Jacob43]

great info and a lot to research

just sent note to cando that i'm working on eating better. bet some of this stuff listed isn't cheap though. is there place someone can suggest in ordering these items?

[worry06]

I try to find out some supplement or anything that slow down of this disease for my daughter.  Thanks you for sharing this.  
W.

[TravelMom]

don't mind posting.. it is quite an extensive list...but as I have posted previously has helped Amanda come back from a very sick state last year...a GGT of 1000, AFP of 880 and extremely elevated LFT's... If we can't cure her now, we hope to repair some of the damage.  

Worry...Hepatapro is good for anyones liver..from what I understand.

HEPATOPRO - BEST FORM OF PHOSPHATIDYL CHOLINE - 2X2
SELENIUM 200 MCG - 1X1
MAXIMUM MILK THISTLE 240 MG - 2X2
N-A-C JARROWS SUSTAIN RELEASE 600 MG - 2X2
ULTIMATE PROBIOTIC '10' 100 MG - 1X1
SAM E 400 MG - 1X1
TMG 1000 MG - 1X1
PSYLLIUM HUSK W. ACIDOPHILIS 880 MG - 1X1
SUPER STRESS W. VIT C - 2 DAILY - (B COMPLEX)
COQ-10 100 MG - 1X1
VITAMIN E 400 IU - 1 DAILY
ZINC 30 MG - 1 DAILY
ALPHA LAPOIC ACID 300 MG - 1X1
DR. SEARS FISH OIL - 2X2
RESVERATROL 300MG-500MG DAILY- "LIFE EXTENSION"  (SPLIT AM&PM) 2X2

JUST STARTED:

CURCUMIN SUPER BIO FROM "LIFE EXTENSION" 400 MG TWICE DAILY
GREEN TEA CAPSULES
GRAPE SEED EXTRACT
TOURINE - 500 MG X 3

[worry06]

I am confused.  Should a person have liver damage stage one take this "Heptapro" ?  Or only a person have cirrothsis should take?
Thanks

[GoofyDad]

TravelMom - When you have a minute - would you mind posting the other supplements Amanda takes?  

[GoofyDad]

I somehow missed the distinction on PC vs PPC until now. In the other thread I posted a link to a PC product - big ooops there - sorry I thought they we all the same. One obvious difference - the PPC products seem to cost a bunch more.    

[TravelMom]

Thank you and best wishes to u and your husband.

[beckyv102]

Thanks.  I'll check it out.  
I wish for continued improvement and an eventual cure for both you and your daughter.

                                                                                                     Becky

[TravelMom]

Supplements are absolutely keeping my daughter stable to say the least...

You can buy the PPC "Hepatapro" from "Life Extension"

http://www.lifeextensionvitamins.com/gastropro.html

Best Wishes

[gauf]

Patents? Really? Whatever he invented, I'll take two.    

feel better    

[Forseegood]

all I said is that there are some elements in that that are good for you, I never said it would cure hepatitis, and I dont think they do,  not that familiar with them. Lots of green stuff, etc. I don't particularly like their marketing system, it's a bit too heavy handed for me.

Speaking of heavy handed, this snake in the grass stuff is kind of amusing. Do you really need to go all Snidely Whiplash on me? All you need is a mustache to curl for crissakes. Why can't you just argue a point instead of all this snake in the grass business? Supplements can serve a function for health, yes, I believe that. I never, ever said they cure hepatitis.

Hepatitis Researcher believes that too. Why not argue with him?, cause he's the big guns, not me, he's a real doctor. My liver doctors respect him, he's got patents all over his wall of things he's invented for hepatitis patients. Actually, it's nasty of me to include him in this silliness. I take that back. In a bad mood today.

[orleans]

take it outside:)

[Mr Liver]

I certainly remember you sticking up for that snake oil salesman from Mannetech, one of the most unscrupulous companies in the world. Defended both him and his product, 'glyconutrients'. Remember ? Because I certainly do. Anyone who supports a snake in the grass is no better then they are. You took the side AGAINST your fellow heppers and supported this creep.

Mr Liver (with a VERY long memory)

[Forseegood]

I'm a famous snake oil purveyor...see those side panel adverts? Half of them are  MINE!!! I don't have hep c at all...just in my heart....youre right, I shouldn't have said anything, and normally I wouldn't have. Good day to you.

[Mr Liver]

Your repeated personal attacks on me just expose who you are in your heart. You can read any kind of attitude you want into my posts, but I know the attitude in which it was posted---one of concern for my fellow heppers. If you can find fault with any facts I posted then refute them, otherwise just shut TFU. Of course, any attack on the snake oil industry just gets your knickers in a bunch, doesn't it ? I wonder why that it is?

[beckyv102]

Sorry.  I just went back and reread the other thread and it was a lot longer and had a lot more discussion of PPC than the last time I read it the other night.  Now I know what to buy and the recommended dosage.

[Hepatitis Researcher]

Was the info re the PPC - which BTW is NOT just phosphatidylcholine, as repeatedly mentioned in the other thread, not clear enough on how to get it?

glycyrrhizin mimics the actions of glucocorticosteroids - thats why it reduces inflammation in the short term, but might have similar long term side effects as Cortisone therapy.

[beckyv102]

Thanks for the info.  He's scheduled for an endoscopy on Friday and I'm wondering if that would be the test that would tell us if he has portal hypertension or not.
I'll ask him to lay off the licorice for a while, at least until we find out if he has portal hypertension.

[viaduk]

I think that the problem is that cirrhotics are prone toward portal hypertension, which can lead to varices, and that is a major concern.  While your husband's overall blood pressure may be OK, he may still have portal hyperension. That is my case, and I developed varices that were banded.  

glycyrrhizin is an ingredient found in licorice root, and it can raise blood pressure.  While I could not find any specific information regarding it raising portal pressure, it seems logical that it would.  That is why I stopped taking sho-saiko-to, although it did seem to help my liver panel blood work to normalize.  I know that the University of California was studying the effect of SST on cirrhotics, and in their reply to my e mail they said it was too soon to tell if this is a real concern.  I figured that it was safer for me to discontinue until the data is in.  

[beckyv102]

Uh oh.....My husband has been eating a lot of licorice lately!
Is the only reason it's bad for cirrhotics because it can raise your blood pressure?  If his blood pressure is all right does that mean he can eat it?
And I'd still like to know where I can buy that PPC that HR was talking about.

[viaduk]

Goofydad:  Thanks for the link and for starting this post.  It would be great to have the opinions and experiences of others regarding the  various supplements that may be useful.

Mr. Liver:  While you are probably correct about using imported chinese formulas, the sho-saiko-to that is being studied at in NY and CA is a Honso product that is produced under strict guidelines and supervision by the Japanese government.  The same exact formula is available in the USA.   However, it is reportedly contraindicated in cirrhotics, and also not to be used in combination with interferon, so one must be careful.  

Also, while dot coms are there to make money, this fact does not  preclude a company from being ethical.  It is important for us, as consumers, to  look into all claims and to make informed judgements based on research and consultation with a trusted medical professional.   However, it is great to have this resource, and the opinions/experiences of others, so that we can be better informed when we make our choices regarding treatment.

[Forseegood]

none taken...I think we all have opinions on this, I'm just talking about style of posts really...that I know everything and what do you know you little hep c posters just turns me off...to each his own, maybe just having a bad day, and normally would just ignore it...sorry if I'm being unreasonable....

[nygirl7]

Me thinks he was talking typically about vitamins and such not any hokey pokey goofy ole sho-saiku-to stuff.

Nobody on this forum would ever suggest things like that...except 4C maybe heheheheheheh hahahaha (sorry I couldn't resist).  

I'm all for supplements but only KNOWN and PROVEN not to rise enzymes/hurt liver kind.  Like selenium and other good old guys.

[Forseegood]

what we would do without you? Too bad we can't run everything by you before we post... sometimes we are just in conflict about some of these issues. I have talked to my doctor, who is the head of a liver clinic at a major hospital, and he says that some of these substances are in dispute, but could be helpful, and that he is not the last word on these issues...believe it or not, you are not the last word on these issues either, nor am I. Perhaps if you would just take out that tone of superiority, we could either agree or disagree with you, or find some substance in your posts...at least from my end.