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Supplementation advice for Cirrhotics
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Supplementation advice for Cirrhotics

There's been a lot of discussion for mending a sore liver in this thread:

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/show/346752

I've just run across this, and thought it might warrant a thread of it's own....  

http://www.vitacost.com/Healthnotes/Concern/Liver-Cirrhosis.aspx

Be sure to scroll down to all the citations at the bottom. There's some really interesting stuff in here.

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31 Comments Post a Comment
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315996_tn?1321809719
oo-la-la
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Avatar_f_tn
I've been reading with interest the posts regarding supplementation during and after treatment.  However, for many of the supplements that I've read about studies seem to congregate around alcoholics and their liver damage.  Is the damage from Hep C identical to the damage that alcoholics have?  If not, then which supplements are no brainers for people with Hep C damaged livers and no fatty liver?  
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179856_tn?1333550962
That was fantastic.  You know since treatment has been over I've punked out on most of my vitamins but now I can see that I should be right back on themle No, I don't haev cirhhosis but even after 72 week of a break I'm sure there's still a fair deal of liver damage.  It it would be helpful for the cirhhotic liver...it seems to me that it sure would be good for my fibrosis.

Now, I just have to decide which to buy this week...vitamins get so expensive!
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229903_tn?1191086451
Thanks for posting that.  I was wondering if if PC (phosphatidylcholine) is the same thing as PPC (polyenphosphatidylcholine) that hepatitis researcher was talking about?  
I'd like to order some for my husband but there are so many brand names and varying prices that I hesitate to buy the wrong thing!
Can anyone recommend a good brand of PPC?
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144210_tn?1273092382
I had never heard of PPC before HRs' recent post. I wonder what else I can do to help my cirhosis damaged liver.  I know Mremeet has done some work on this from past posts I've read. Perhaps he wouldn't mind "translating" the info HR has put forth on this subject into laymans terms for us. Is MT helpful on tx? for instance. what about selenium, should I take it on tx? etc., etc.
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158241_tn?1237723123
A very good overview about the basics of Hepatic Fibrosis and Cirrhosis is from Rockey and Friedman: http://tinyurl.com/ytct8a
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Avatar_m_tn
"Animal studies have found that red peony root, alone or in combination with other Chinese herbs, could help prevent liver damage due to various chemical toxins."

Peony root is NOT to be taken by anyone, red or white, if they care for their liver. It has been shown to be toxic and has been known to cause liver failure.

Licorice is also used in this same formula. It also is NOT to be taken by cirrhotics. It elevates blood pressure which can be dangerous.

And the sho-saiku-to mentioned was tested in a small study with pharmaceutical grade ingredients and they were NOT imported from China, which literally requires you to suspend all common sense before use.
Look folks, any site that ends in dot com is there to sell you stuff. Scruples are a far distant afterthought if any thought at all is given to the subject.

Cirrhotics are typically low in  three minerals. Calcium, zinc, and magnanese. These are all inexpensive and available at the local market.

I was only there 5 minutes and I found 3 pieces of bad information.

Mr Liver
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86075_tn?1238118691
what we would do without you? Too bad we can't run everything by you before we post... sometimes we are just in conflict about some of these issues. I have talked to my doctor, who is the head of a liver clinic at a major hospital, and he says that some of these substances are in dispute, but could be helpful, and that he is not the last word on these issues...believe it or not, you are not the last word on these issues either, nor am I. Perhaps if you would just take out that tone of superiority, we could either agree or disagree with you, or find some substance in your posts...at least from my end.
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179856_tn?1333550962
Me thinks he was talking typically about vitamins and such not any hokey pokey goofy ole sho-saiku-to stuff.

Nobody on this forum would ever suggest things like that...except 4C maybe heheheheheheh hahahaha (sorry I couldn't resist).  

I'm all for supplements but only KNOWN and PROVEN not to rise enzymes/hurt liver kind.  Like selenium and other good old guys.


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86075_tn?1238118691
none taken...I think we all have opinions on this, I'm just talking about style of posts really...that I know everything and what do you know you little hep c posters just turns me off...to each his own, maybe just having a bad day, and normally would just ignore it...sorry if I'm being unreasonable....
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Avatar_m_tn
Goofydad:  Thanks for the link and for starting this post.  It would be great to have the opinions and experiences of others regarding the  various supplements that may be useful.

Mr. Liver:  While you are probably correct about using imported chinese formulas, the sho-saiko-to that is being studied at in NY and CA is a Honso product that is produced under strict guidelines and supervision by the Japanese government.  The same exact formula is available in the USA.   However, it is reportedly contraindicated in cirrhotics, and also not to be used in combination with interferon, so one must be careful.  

Also, while dot coms are there to make money, this fact does not  preclude a company from being ethical.  It is important for us, as consumers, to  look into all claims and to make informed judgements based on research and consultation with a trusted medical professional.   However, it is great to have this resource, and the opinions/experiences of others, so that we can be better informed when we make our choices regarding treatment.


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229903_tn?1191086451
Uh oh.....My husband has been eating a lot of licorice lately!
Is the only reason it's bad for cirrhotics because it can raise your blood pressure?  If his blood pressure is all right does that mean he can eat it?
And I'd still like to know where I can buy that PPC that HR was talking about.
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Avatar_m_tn
I think that the problem is that cirrhotics are prone toward portal hypertension, which can lead to varices, and that is a major concern.  While your husband's overall blood pressure may be OK, he may still have portal hyperension. That is my case, and I developed varices that were banded.  

glycyrrhizin is an ingredient found in licorice root, and it can raise blood pressure.  While I could not find any specific information regarding it raising portal pressure, it seems logical that it would.  That is why I stopped taking sho-saiko-to, although it did seem to help my liver panel blood work to normalize.  I know that the University of California was studying the effect of SST on cirrhotics, and in their reply to my e mail they said it was too soon to tell if this is a real concern.  I figured that it was safer for me to discontinue until the data is in.  
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229903_tn?1191086451
Thanks for the info.  He's scheduled for an endoscopy on Friday and I'm wondering if that would be the test that would tell us if he has portal hypertension or not.
I'll ask him to lay off the licorice for a while, at least until we find out if he has portal hypertension.
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Avatar_dr_m_tn
Was the info re the PPC - which BTW is NOT just phosphatidylcholine, as repeatedly mentioned in the other thread, not clear enough on how to get it?

glycyrrhizin mimics the actions of glucocorticosteroids - thats why it reduces inflammation in the short term, but might have similar long term side effects as Cortisone therapy.
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229903_tn?1191086451
Sorry.  I just went back and reread the other thread and it was a lot longer and had a lot more discussion of PPC than the last time I read it the other night.  Now I know what to buy and the recommended dosage.
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Avatar_m_tn
Your repeated personal attacks on me just expose who you are in your heart. You can read any kind of attitude you want into my posts, but I know the attitude in which it was posted---one of concern for my fellow heppers. If you can find fault with any facts I posted then refute them, otherwise just shut TFU. Of course, any attack on the snake oil industry just gets your knickers in a bunch, doesn't it ? I wonder why that it is?
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86075_tn?1238118691
I'm a famous snake oil purveyor...see those side panel adverts? Half of them are  MINE!!! I don't have hep c at all...just in my heart....youre right, I shouldn't have said anything, and normally I wouldn't have. Good day to you.
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Avatar_m_tn
I certainly remember you sticking up for that snake oil salesman from Mannetech, one of the most unscrupulous companies in the world. Defended both him and his product, 'glyconutrients'. Remember ? Because I certainly do. Anyone who supports a snake in the grass is no better then they are. You took the side AGAINST your fellow heppers and supported this creep.

Mr Liver (with a VERY long memory)
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Avatar_m_tn
take it outside:)
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86075_tn?1238118691
all I said is that there are some elements in that that are good for you, I never said it would cure hepatitis, and I dont think they do,  not that familiar with them. Lots of green stuff, etc. I don't particularly like their marketing system, it's a bit too heavy handed for me.

Speaking of heavy handed, this snake in the grass stuff is kind of amusing. Do you really need to go all Snidely Whiplash on me? All you need is a mustache to curl for crissakes. Why can't you just argue a point instead of all this snake in the grass business? Supplements can serve a function for health, yes, I believe that. I never, ever said they cure hepatitis.

Hepatitis Researcher believes that too. Why not argue with him?, cause he's the big guns, not me, he's a real doctor. My liver doctors respect him, he's got patents all over his wall of things he's invented for hepatitis patients. Actually, it's nasty of me to include him in this silliness. I take that back. In a bad mood today.
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144210_tn?1273092382

Patents? Really? Whatever he invented, I'll take two.    

feel better    





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Avatar_f_tn
Supplements are absolutely keeping my daughter stable to say the least...

You can buy the PPC "Hepatapro" from "Life Extension"

http://www.lifeextensionvitamins.com/gastropro.html

Best Wishes
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229903_tn?1191086451
Thanks.  I'll check it out.  
I wish for continued improvement and an eventual cure for both you and your daughter.

                                                                                                     Becky
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Avatar_f_tn
Thank you and best wishes to u and your husband.
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92903_tn?1309908311
I somehow missed the distinction on PC vs PPC until now. In the other thread I posted a link to a PC product - big ooops there - sorry I thought they we all the same. One obvious difference - the PPC products seem to cost a bunch more.    

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92903_tn?1309908311
TravelMom - When you have a minute - would you mind posting the other supplements Amanda takes?  
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Avatar_f_tn
I am confused.  Should a person have liver damage stage one take this "Heptapro" ?  Or only a person have cirrothsis should take?
Thanks
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Avatar_f_tn
don't mind posting.. it is quite an extensive list...but as I have posted previously has helped Amanda come back from a very sick state last year...a GGT of 1000, AFP of 880 and extremely elevated LFT's... If we can't cure her now, we hope to repair some of the damage.  

Worry...Hepatapro is good for anyones liver..from what I understand.

HEPATOPRO - BEST FORM OF PHOSPHATIDYL CHOLINE - 2X2
SELENIUM 200 MCG - 1X1
MAXIMUM MILK THISTLE 240 MG - 2X2
N-A-C JARROWS SUSTAIN RELEASE 600 MG - 2X2
ULTIMATE PROBIOTIC '10' 100 MG - 1X1
SAM E 400 MG - 1X1
TMG 1000 MG - 1X1
PSYLLIUM HUSK W. ACIDOPHILIS 880 MG - 1X1
SUPER STRESS W. VIT C - 2 DAILY - (B COMPLEX)
COQ-10 100 MG - 1X1
VITAMIN E 400 IU - 1 DAILY
ZINC 30 MG - 1 DAILY
ALPHA LAPOIC ACID 300 MG - 1X1
DR. SEARS FISH OIL - 2X2
RESVERATROL 300MG-500MG DAILY- "LIFE EXTENSION"  (SPLIT AM&PM) 2X2

JUST STARTED:

CURCUMIN SUPER BIO FROM "LIFE EXTENSION" 400 MG TWICE DAILY
GREEN TEA CAPSULES
GRAPE SEED EXTRACT
TOURINE - 500 MG X 3


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Avatar_f_tn
I try to find out some supplement or anything that slow down of this disease for my daughter.  Thanks you for sharing this.  
W.
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Avatar_m_tn
great info and a lot to research

just sent note to cando that i'm working on eating better. bet some of this stuff listed isn't cheap though. is there place someone can suggest in ordering these items?

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