Thanksgiving thoughts

Gonna post his on both sides of the board, rules or no rules

It’s Thankgiving so here goes:

I thank God there’s a cure for this disease that at Least half the people reading these words will experience, and for the people who help make that possible.

I thank God that after a morning with diarrhea caused by antibiotics
that there was an antibiotic in the first place to get rid of my infection and ease unbearable pain!

I thank God that although traffic was a B, at least I HAD a car to get to my labs today.
Especially when I saw those getting off the 3 hr. long ( no stops to pee) handicapped bus as they shuffled into the clinic.

I thank God for this board/forum, that I knew enough to ask for ammonia check and PCR today even though it wasn’t the treatment protocol, asking for it made the difference.

I thank God that when I sat getting “Beechy” waiting 20 minutes for MY lab draw
that He showed me the person in front of me…..
whose blood they could not find to draw today
and who was an amputee….
I thank God that He forgave me my impatience, and corrected me.

I thank God that after crankily going across town in pain to get someone else a potty chair today…(like why should I being sick have to deal with the sick….).
.that at least I was reminded it wasn’t ME having need of the potty chair.
Like the gravedigger being thankful he's still shoveling I guess.

I thank God that when at days end either the day and/or chemo made me cranky with my hubby that he called me on it, and got cranky back. Like I should be the only one with things to gripe about and good excuses to do so?

I thank God that he’s a MAN, who afterwards also had the guts to apologize where he needed to.
Oh the beauty of that Grace being in any of us!!

I thank God,  that there’s a guy coming tomorrow at 800 Am with a jackhammer to tear up concrete all day, so that I can have heat in my house again!!
(I probably won’t think to be thankful for this in tomorrow’s noise and dust, so this is thanks in advance dear Lord.)

I thank God that there’s family coming,
and warm plates of food,
and things that most of us cannot imagine doing without,
and yet many will have to this as in other winters.

I thank God I’m still here to give thanks.
I have trouble some days finding things to be thankful for...
but it's usually because I didn't take the time to look for them.
That’s all for now, it’s someone else’s turn.

Mary B

[merryBe]

opps.my typing didn't keep pace with my mental list....

I thank God for all the docs, and researchers, and drug companies, who do take this disease seriously and are trying to help cure it.

can't leave that one out.

[cat33]

BRAVO, BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!THANK GOD FOR PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO TAKE THE TIME TO REMIND US OF EVERYTHING WE SHOUD BE THANKFUL FOR. CAT33

[maggiepa]

That was wonderful..I want to thank you & all for being there at one of the most troubling times of my life. It means so much.

Ann

[mikesimon]

Expressing thanks for antibiotic diarrhea makes this a very worthwhile thread which does indeed justify breaking the forum rules. That is so very touching and it is obvious you spent a lot of time on this. Mike

[Myown]

Very nice merry. I think you should also thank God that you are able to turn the other cheek and look the other way when someone follows you around on forum and constantly tries to annoy you. That truly is Gods grace in your life.

I'll try to turn the other cheek and say I thank God that someone I know hasn't choked on the silver spoon in his mouth yet.

[wyntre9]

C'mon, Mike.

Don't you think you're being just a teensy bit too harsh?

I mean, it is Thanksgiving and while it's not a holiday I put much stock in a lot of people do and I think that should be respected.

I agree this post would have probably been better on the COmmunity Side, but can't we cut people some slack today?

Happy Thanksgiving to all and wishing everyone SVR.

wyntre

[mikesimon]

Okay - let me add to this insipid thread.
I am thankful for Thomas E. Starzl for pioneering liver transplantation.
I am also thankful that he also developed FK 507 - tacrolimus - which later became known as Prograf which is a potent anti-rejection drug and prevents me from rejecting my liver.
I am thankful for my surgeon who found a liver for me and performed my transplant.
I am thankful that during a routine annual exam a lesion was seen which was suspected of being liver cancer and that bumped me up on the transplant list and made it possible for me to have a transplant before I became really ill.
I am thankful there were dogs available for Starzl to experiment on which allowed him to eventually transplant a liver into a human being.
I am thankful for the discovery of insulin which I use to treat my diabetes.
I am thankful for the ambulance service which recognized the seriousness of my injuries from my motorcycle accident and life flighted me to a trauma center.
I am thankful for Professor Gavril Abramovich Ilizarov, the Soviet man who invented the external fixator which allowed my broken leg to heal and possibly saved my leg.
I am thankful for the people who work with me who made it possible for me to convalesce after my myriad health issues and........
Blah blah blah blah

We all have things to be thankful for and believe me, I could go on and on and on but, really - WHO CARES? This is a self absorbed self indulgent exercise. We all have our own stories but unless they are instructive or helpful in the context of HCV they certainly don't belong here and that was my point. She broke the rules to express her thanks for antibiotic diarrhea among other things. I am not impressed. I will admit to being intolerant and perhaps arrogant but I am not self indulgent and I do not break the rules of this forum simply because something goes through my mind. I find it nothing more than self indulgent drivel and if that upsets the people here than maybe I am just way out of touch with the members. And I probably am.

Mike

[mikesimon]

I am thankful that I disengaged from a pathetic hypochondriac crybaby who used to send me the longest stupidest emails full of theories and endless complaints day after day after day. And because I felt so sorry for this person I tried to answer these extremely tiresome and tedious nonsensical emails. I am thankful that I don't have to read and respond any longer. What a tremendous relief! Mike

[merryBe]

cat, maggpie,wytre, that you all very much!
Myown, I think you have a bit of the prophetic at work in you!!

Mike, cheers to you joining my insipidity with some of your own.
I'm grateful, and thank God, you are here, and have had such good care that you can get still scappy when someone's positive thinking or accknowlegement of God, or both, rub you the wrong way!!!

I think the point was to keep ones focus right while stuggling with liver failure,
which is not always easy,
if that is self-indulgence, OK.
well thank you for joining into it all by complaining of my thankfulness with a list of your own thankfulness whcih somehow proves how self-indulgent you are not ????  
Only don't you think the point would have been better served if you had in this case, being so offended, just called me an idiot and been done with it?

I broke the rules, because some are too busy to ever make it to the community side of the forum,
yet from time to time we all need to remove our silver spoons long enough to give thanks.Rules are made to be broken from time to time,, except in Nazi Germany and the Taliban regime!!

But what a lovely analogy as someone just said and let me paraphase that for ya:
" first pull the silver shovel out of your own body part and then maybe you will be able to remove the teaspoon from your brothers mouth."

the wonderful thing about forums, is we're all allowed to be ourselves in here, be that polyannaish or self indulgent, or intolerant and aggrogant as you just mentioned..
In either case, I'm thankful for you Mike......  : ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[mikesimon]

I don't have any malice for you Merry. I would react the same way if my Sister posted something non HCV here. I have been here so long that I feel protective of this place. I remember clearly when we were allowed only 6 threads per day and we cherished them and guarded them against abuse with absolute vigilance. Though that isn't the situation any longer I still react as if it is. Even these days I rarely start a thread unless I have some articles that I think are significant. The fact that I am out of touch is reflected in the lack of interest and replies threads like that usually generate. I think the first thread I ever started was after I reached SVR in 2004 and I had been here for 3 years by that time. I am not typical and I find myself outside of the consensus more often than not. But, I really do believe that it is self indulgent to personalize a day like Thanksgiving. Every time I feel sorry for myself I run across someone who has it so much worse and I realize I am not the center or the litmus test for suffering or hardship  though people do often remark to me that I have had it rough. I think I am so very lucky and fortunate to be here and feel well enough to get upset and want to argue - that hasn't always been the case and I would guess that many members would prefer those days to nowadays. Regardless of what you and I think and feel it is the time to give thanks so - Happy Thanksgiving. Be well, Mike

[Myown]

I am thankful that I disengaged from a pathetic hypochondriac crybaby who used to send me the longest stupidest emails full of theories and endless complaints day after day after day. And because I felt so sorry for this person I tried to answer these extremely tiresome and tedious nonsensical emails. I am thankful that I don't have to read and respond any longer. What a tremendous relief! Mike
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael,
My oh my, are you talking about me?? I'm glad to see that you got over the shock of me not wanting to correspond with a control freak. And maybe now after today and how you behaved in this thread you will see why I told you that you have a problem with trying to control people. Sorry Mike, but you can't talk to some of us as if we are your 'hired help.' One thing I find interesting is that you have no problem picking on women and yet you avoid going toe to toe when a man comes your way. Interesting.

[wyntre9]

You SURE you're not still on TX?  (JK)

Reminds me of how I reacted the other day  when I went to the laundromat to pick up my wash only to find the attendant had sent a pillowcase full of socks, tee shirts, underwear, etc.,  to the dry cleaner.

Just to let you know, Mike, I've been on TX and posting to forum for the past year and I  have always enjoyed your often funny, insightful, biting commentary.  

But I gather, from snippets of info in various threads, that you're an attorney and we all know how much lawyers love rules.

Don't you think it would be pretty boring if everyone was a lawyer?   (OK - I know you might say yes - bad analogy.)  

All the best,

wyntre

[shaddamom]

I am thankful too that I just found that my week 4 VL test came back at <615.

Thank you all for being here to lead me along and show me the way, to ease my fears and anxieties-- you have passed this way ahead of me and wight my way.

I am thankful for all of you.

[mikesimon]

Worms worms worms - oh my!

[Myown]

Myown, I think you have a bit of the prophetic at work in you!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
yeah thats part of my calling, but as you can see Jesus has alot of work to do in me cause I don't turn the other cheek - ever -and thats not a good thing - holds me back from where I have to go - ya know?

I'm not exactly the reflection of a gentle lamb and if we are to represent HIM, I'm not a good representation at all. But God puts people in our lives so that we can see how much work we have left for him to do in us. I have been saved about 20 years and probably haven't really gotten beyond 1st grade so to speak. yeah I can quote scripture - know my bible - have a talent that God has given me, but I let people such as this bother me and I shouldn't, so I guess I'll stay in first grade maybe forever - so now you know what I need prayer for:)

[mikesimon]

I don't practice law much these days and I haven't since 1985 so that might not be an excuse for my intolerance. Maybe I am just an idiot with no discernible reason(s). But, I am pleased that you enjoyed something I wrote. I really am. Thanks for saying so. Mike

[Myown]

Black walnut hull worked my friend - no lie. They were cute too.

[mikesimon]

I wouldn't hire you if you worked for free or even if you paid me. I already have a hairdresser anyway and mine doesn't complain about having cryoglobulinemia and worms and blood vessels in her brain and buzzing in her ears when she sings and neuropathy and incompetent doctors and phlebotomists and taxi drivers and gee I'm tired just recalling that nonsense. Mike

[scratchinghead]

Eat less

[Myown]

Michael, get over the pain, please. You are acting like a little hurt boy. Don't you think people see this for themselves? Go to the laundramat if you have nothing else to do.

[mikesimon]

Go ride a scooter - if you know what I mean

[Myown]

Your jealousy is showing.

[Myown]

I rode the scooter already btw. We live close by to one another:)

[mikesimon]

You didn't know what I meant. Happy Thanksgiving. Mike

[Myown]

Well whatever you think you mean or meant - lets keep our distance. We don't need to continually fight every in front of an audience and we have tried and tried but we don't get along and never will.
Happy Thanksgiving to you too also and I mean that.

[jmjm530]

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

[merryBe]

hmm...so I'm just trying to understand your thinking here, Mike,
cause we all need understanding and reasoning some of the time.

if someone discusses their physical illnesses,
with no emotion or spiritualism attached.....
and never issues or things as ordinary as everyday life....
(as I'm assuming your hairdresser must have been this very matter of fact in the way those ailments were shared in order to have gleaned your admiration to such a degree)
then that is OK
.
But
if someone shows the least amount of attached pain, emotion, or "weakness" either in leaning on God or attempts to lean on others in here, or in just a vent when freaked out or having difficulty dealing......or shares their mental process OF overcoming.....
then that is NOT OK?
they shouldn't even be allowed in here because it stresses YOU out?
did I get this right?

So in other words, unless the code of the Marine Core of buck-up is upheld at all times, people are not OK?
Does the word tolerance have no place unless someone passes the Mike acid test?

I would suggest you try to remember people don't have to be exactly like us,
or think exactly like us to be treasures.
You are still a treasure to me, and I've enjoyed some of your posts,
even though there are things we all, obviously, including
myself and you as well have need of working through.

It's been my great pleasure in my short time here,
(and that of many others who are what I would call "care-givers" as well, by my observation,
who have taken time with people in great pain,
some who are almost dying,
or have come close;
some just having bad rashes,
and/or almost infecting their children, etc etc.
who are you to say their pain is not worthy of anyones time?

You cannot always separate the business end of the stick Mike,
medically speaking,
because you are dealing in fact with medicine devoted soley to human beings;
each with their own soul and personality attached.
Sometimes in our own pain or behind our testtubes, we tend to forget that.

How does the long list of suffering you've read so affront your sensibilities as to not count or matter.... because it differs in extent comparative to your own or someone you know, and upon whom you have lowered your septre and confirmed their crown of thorns as jewel encrusted??
Because someone isn't a member of Mensa, what exactly is your thinkin' here?

this kind of thread should never have raised this type of rancor,
but the fact that it did means you get to go to the top of my prayer list
whether you want someone praying for you or not....you just won that prize  !!!!!

we all have some difficulty with some people, some of time, but it sounds like you would rather not have anyone allowed personal expression........ an "Alpha Males Only" set of threads maybe?
really, no offense, but if others bother you that much when they share perhaps you might consider it, call it "No whiners, emotioning or sympathy allowed in here, Period".

OK, I really didn't mean that last part;
but do take the tough exterior a little to heart Mike,
there's a time and a place for that toughness,
where it can come in handy, in war maybe...
but this is not a war zone,
it's a help and healing zone, right?
Unless you own this forum, or got appointed God while we weren't looking....lighten up????

One day, we will all need to be cut more slack than anyone can possibly imagine.
I think one key in life is to keep that final day in mind, and to try to practice granting the same grace and slack as you would like others and God to extend to you.

One day, I'm hoping to say to God, "gee, thank you for stooping so low as to allow me in here";

what I'm thinking won't impress Him is if we march up and say, "OK, I'm here now, so scoot over!!"

Mary B

[merryBe]

I am so so glad you are still well, and I've started about 10 threads in 6 months, all medical once I understood there were two boards. thought a break for thankgiving would be tolerable.

sorry I didn't see your second post before my last response, it musta just beat mine by minutes...
I totally forgive you, and hope you will do the same.
Hope you have a wonderful Thankgivng as well!!

[CMcH]

I am fairly new on this forum and I have never been on one before. What are the rules? I didn't know there was a community side to this can you let me know how to get there. All these playground antics are mildly amusing but I thought the forum was to give support and information. I'm not here to offend anyone. It's very helpful to read about people who are going through similar situations and what they are encountering. As I begin this retched journey of TX please let me know what  the proper etiquette is in finding support.

[mremeet]

May everyone have a really yummy fruitcake tomorrow and may there be a big fat one in your stocking too! I just know everyone loves them, and god knows there's enough of them here already...but isn't that the greatest thing about fruitcakes?? There's just never enuf of 'em. OHHH YUMMMY YUMMY FRUITCAKES!!!!!!! GIMME DEM FWOOTCAKES!!!!!!!!!

[merryBe]

come as a little child, stay as little children.
any grown up giantism that overcomes our pigmy faith is all by way of His Grace overcoming our own frailties anyway.
Just enjoy your scooter ride!!! and complain whenever you need to, some have no where else they can do this.
and, even 20 years in, or degrees in religion later, it's always still just one day, and one moment at a time. each day is our first, and our last in ways we barely glimpse.
chin up!!

[wyntre9]

Welcome to Forum.

It really is (mostly) a wonderful place.  I just hope there's no rule about discussing "The Rules," so here goes.

In a nutshell, The Hepatitis Forum (which you're currently reading) is ostensibly for medical issues from treatment to symptoms to the latest research, to viral loads, logs, genotypes, medications, research, etc.  We even have a Dr. who regularly logs on and answers folks questions, if he can.

The Hepatitis Community Living forum can be accessed by scrolling to the top of the page and clicking on the link in the centered caption entitled Welcome to the hepatitis forum.  It's directly above the "BACK TO FORUM" button.  That side is supposed to be more for personal stuff; anywhere from regular discussion of vertex stock (uh-oh, that's not exactly personal) to emotional, insurance, financial issues.  Basically it's an anything-goes type of place.

You may even see a number of what some members affectionately call the "poop" threads.

Hope this helps,

wyntre

[merryBe]

even when we do know this is "the medical side" of the board...people, especially new people "present" sometimes needing encouragement and psychological uplifting every bit as much as medical information. they also present with a lot of stress sometimes that "just the facts Jack" doesn't begin to alleviate.
I think there needs to be a gentle approach to suggesting they separate their two halves, because it is not something everyone comes by naturally or even will see the reasoning of. Otherwise, it's like standing at the door shouting, "no shoes, no shirt, no service".

Unless one has a degree in medicine or microbiology, which most coming here do not, then there is this HUGE mountain of information to climb up to even begin to see the Everest in front of us.

I am so grateful that people do sometimes break "the rules" in here....
HA HA HA  (one more thankful for good measure for our Mikey!!!)  : )))))))

if not for the compassions extended, and the wonderful frolicks into humorville on even serious threads, this would indeed be a much more depressing lifeless place.

what makes it not that Are the individuals with all their quirks.

It's the personality that gives this place it's humanity.
Sometimes it's just good therapy to wax jocular in the midst of all the rest!!

we realize for the serious problem, someone may take offense that a thread get's pooped on, but it's been done to me, and I take none now, because it's just too dang refreshing to read the occasional pun and have a momentary alleviation from all the mental machinations on has to endure to get through 50 factual posts.

It's just satisfying to read not only facts, BUT/AND encouragements, AND goofy silly stuff as well.

better we all be the Cuckoo in the Nest ala Jack N's  style than nurse/male nurse Rachet's anyday!!!
me and my lobotomy both swear by it!!!

[wyntre9]

"even when we do know this is "the medical side" of the board...people, especially new people "present" sometimes needing encouragement and psychological uplifting every bit as much as medical information."

I agree 1,000%.

Hope no one got scared away, today.

wyntre

[mikesimon]

You just can't leave it alone - can you? Is that your Christian way? As Blake said: "It's easier to forgive an enemy than a friend" and that appears to apply to you absolutely. Forgiveness seems very easy for you to talk about but apparently not so easy for you to find in your heart and actually put into action. Frankly, I am not at all surprised.  Mike

[Whrose]

ahhh. i want to be nurse rachet! really really really rageing really do!

Happy Thanksgiving to all. i do enjoy this forum for its lively atmosphere.

May you enjoy eating that turkey on the tabletop instead of the one sitting alongside of you. Of course when you've had enought you can just "stuff it". And save some room for desert!  There nothing like a sugar high for getting your rage across.  If all else fails and you find your self getting bored in front of the TV set watching your favorite team lose.....turn on the PC and visit this forum.

How am i thankful? let me count the ways..................+

hey...anyone want to come over for chili tomorrow?

best regards ;)

[Hepatitis Researcher]

Whrose:
And save some room for desert!  There nothing like a sugar high for getting your rage across.


I must have done a lousy job in explaining the reason for lipid droplets and their consequences in the liver, and furthermore what that extra lipid droplets will do to your liver cell death rate and then the Kupfer cell activation....  Let me quote:


Glucose and fatty acid molecules have to be processed in terms of energy metabolism, but also in terms of providing intermediates for several synthetic/anabolic pathways  in the mitochondria of the heaptocyte.
Since the  HCV core protein, by mechanisms not entirely clear, has a prooxidative/damaging role to the hepatocytes mitochondria, the speed/ efficacy -technically called "flux'-  through these mitochoindrial pathways is impaired/slowed.

As a result there is a backlog of glucose and pyruvate/acetylCoenzymeA in the cytoplasma that will direct those metabolites into the cytosolically located fatty acid/triglyceride (FAT) synthesis pathways.

In short; can't burn it well in the damaged mitochoindria, lets make fat of it, what elso to do with it. Thus in this way your LIPID DROPLETS are created in the hepatocyte cytoplasm. Never a good thing for the liver cell to have fat droplets in its interior work space. Imagine a factory hall, where all the shipments of materials that normally are worked up in the next hall are now stored right in the middle of the workspace and everybody has to cumbersomly walk and work around these very bulky hindrances.

Well I know your  post was meant jokingly. I just wanted to friendly mention, that the holiday indulgences do a lot of harm to healthy people and more so to ones with ongoing liver fibrosis.

We have once ( in a res project) ,in several people,  measured the degree of DNA damage, as assessed by the amount of 8-dehydroxyguanidine/creatinine  in urine, a sure marker of oxidative DNA damage. It came back skyhigh after the holidays.....

Thus a small plate with fresh berries, mixed with raw almonds, decorated with nicely cut apple pieces and some water melons and sprinkled with steel cut oatmeal for looks might be just what the liver can take. Eat the turkey with the salad simultaneously, and give the stuffings to someone who had worked hard, physically, like the farm hands/workers/farmers for whom this type of meal was originally meant to be served...

[wyntre9]

*VBG*

This forum DOES sometimes seem like those dreadful holiday dinners where you see relatives you thought were dead, in-laws, the in-laws relatives, etc.

But Forum is a lot more fun.  In fact, I think you've found the antidote to boredom.  Just tune in to us.

wyntre

[wyntre9]

"Imagine a factory hall, where all the shipments of materials that normally are worked up in the next hall are now stored right in the middle of the workspace and everybody has to cumbersomly walk and work around these very bulky hindrances."

Are you saying that's what Forum sometimes seems like?  

But seriously, does that mean no more ice cream?  I'll never survive another 6 months of TX without my daily maple walnut and oreo cookie fix.

wyntre

[Whrose]

HR...yikes! forget the chilli and stuffing. i am coming over your place....sounds delisc!
however...noone but noone is going to stop me from that pumpkin cheezecake in the oven! LOL

the worse holiday to work in an ER is this one. this meal will tax the heart like no other! (i am glad i am off)

btw...the rage this year is to soak the turkey in a salty solution(brine). all be careful! this method while producing a tender fowl will also increase the sodium 550mg per serving and more if the turkey is soaked longer than 12hr. way to much sodium. not only that, the protein is approx 49gm per serving and the total fat about12-15gm.  watch those servings!

wyntre....LOL  i am sure HR will get a kick out of that new analogy.  so true, this place is seldom boring and one must take care not to bump into others droplets at times. i vote you to enjoy those sweet rewards...but maybe try a nonfat or yogurt based ice cream. add your own oreo's and fresh walnuts and you will be sitting pretty.

turkey hugs to all

[IAmTheWalrus]

Thanks for recognizing that newcomers "present" here. This is my first experience here. It is nice to know about the two sides to the foum. Probably the Community side will be my interest, but it is great to get the medical side. I clearly have a lot to learn and I hope both sides of the forum will help.

Happy Thanksgiving too all

[kcrandy]

I FEEL LIKE I AM IN LAS VEGAS WITH ALL THE FLAME THROWING GOING ON!!!!!!!!!!!

ok thats alll my ranting for one thread

i am grateful that i know how to spell in caps, does that make me a bad person, no i do not think so.

i respect ALL peoples ideas thoughts opinions etc. but for someone else to flame someone for what he or she believes to be the correct way a group or issue is adressed is closed mindedness and will lead to usually no resolution or solutions which is what i thought this group is all about.

today is thx gvng eve and i for one am grateful for this group being here and i would hate to see any of you ALL not be in here.

so many of you have been a big help for me and for that i am VERY GRATEFUL.

merryBe, kcmike, jim, ala, mikesmom,grandma,researchman, ladylaurie, and i know i missed some of you; and especially those of you that are here for your first visit or seeking advice or help dealing with hep-c, i am so grateful for you all and i look forward to saying the same next thx gvng 2008 totally svr as i wish you all the same.  : O )

[jmjm530]

Prior to treating, I tried several diets.

The Zone-type diet, which seems similar to what you advocate balances out protein, fat and carbs in a 30, 30, 40 ratio. The carbs are all low on the glycemic index, not allowing starches, etc, except in very small quantities.  The good carbs are most fructose based, a la fruits.

THe other diet was the Pritrikin diet which was basically a very low fat diet -- under 10 per cent of total calories. And while they didnt allow simple sugars, it ws rich in complex carbs, including starches, and basically with no limit.

On the Pritkin diet, my liver enzymes went into normal range for the first time ever and stayed there as long as I stuck to the diet`. `````Total cholesterol also dropped drmatically althugh hdl ``fell a bit and tri``s increased.

On the other hand, the Zone diet incresed my enzymes even from baseline abnormal . CHolesterol dropped from baseline but not as much as from the Pritkin. I also noticed a difficulty in concentrating on the zone diet which I attributed to lack of carbs which are known to fuel the brain.

I do think the Zone is probbly better than the :Thanksgiving diet -- but I also think in the context of a very low fat diet with very few simple sugars -- that a diet rich in starches such as Pritkin is worth considering. As to the low HDL on Pritkin, some very early studies of New Guinea natives showed that when TC was below ``140````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` -- as mine was

[jmjm530]

````````````````````````````````````````````some keyboard problems bear with me...

as mine was close to, then HDL becomes less important, i.e. not as much need for protection. These natives had very low TC with very low HDL and very low incidence of heart disease.

The problem that I see with Zone type diets is the increased proztein intake. On pritkin it ws 3-4 ounces a day (animal protein) at the very most. On the Zone, triple that amount is required to keep a minimal (1800 calorie/day) caloric level, since so few carbs are allowed. Unless, of course, you add a consderable amount more fat than 30 per cent of calories.

Interested in your comments and a Happy Thanksgiving. (some major computer problems so may not be able to respond)```` until fixed.l.

[jmjm530]

Point I was trying to make while my keyboard was bonking out was that I think perhaps the higher protein intakes on the very low carb diets tax the liver and therefore the rise in enzymes. Also, these diets tend to be higher in fat, as stated, in order to maintain a modium of daily calories. Pritikin on the other hand may be kinder to the liver with its very low protein and fat levels. The only downside to Pritkin as I see it, might be the tendency for higher triglicerides (triglycerides), which could be combated by either increasing aerobic activity and/or decreasing starches somewhat, but still having basically a grain-based high carb diet.

-- Jim

[scratchinghead]

Here is an emoticon to cheer you up:

B--------------D

[scratchinghead]

Make a list:
get all the vegeatables and fruits, nuts, and grains that you *should* be taking and disperse them throughout your day. Then nudge and push and fudge all the other stuff in to make your daily diet plan. Once you have that, you can alter by little steps as science dictates. Sometimes we can be overwhelmed with the perfect diet, but this way you might have 2 perfect meals and still doing research on the 3rd, etc.

Then again, "Colonel Hogan, I know nuthingk!"

[miked]

OMG.  I actually read this entire thread.  It was like driving by a car wreck; you don't want to look but have to.

Mike's got a point.  

Over the past 4 years since my dx, I've noticed this forum morph from discussions about HCV, new treatments, tx support, symptoms management, etc....then for awhile to joke-of-the-day & recipes and then back to HCV.

Even though I feel the holiday spirit as Merrybe, I'd like to see the forum focus on HCV.

[Andiamo1]

Here is a post that was meant to cheer people up.  You have the right to ask for it to be posted on the community side if that is your belief.

What I don't understand is the intensity of the anger and the insulting attitude that is expressed.

If you disagree with Merrybe for posting here, why not just say that and perhaps thank her for all the help she has given to people here.

Miked made his point without insulting anyone; why can't the rest of you do that?

[shastri20032003]

Happy Thanksgiving and hope you guys enjoy your holidays!

[Willy50]

place like home for the holidays.  : )  

No serious harm done.

Mike occasionally reminds people that they are in the wrong forum.  He may get a little blunt and untactful about it.  It's balanced against his serious attitude of trying to help people and keep things organized or uncluttered.  It's actually one of the jobs of a moderator; merging duplicate threads and to place threads into proper forums.

Merry Be started a thread with the intention of helping people properly forcus on their HCV infection; in spite of our infection and varying liver disease we still need to find things to be thankful for today (and everyday).  I have a friend who I believe is getting a transplant today, yes....on thanksgiving.

Lets cut everybody some slack today.

best wishes and thanks to you all.......

Willy

[scratchinghead]

Heppy Thanksgiving

I'm going for the Tofu Turkey (seriously)

Thanks to merryBe, I'm skipping the gravy . . . . .

[FlGuy]

I did not have great expectations of this thread, but it really developed.

[GoofyDad]

FL: Hey-hey, Buddy. How are you feeling? Starting to bounce back a bit I hope? I'll be softball season before you know it, and the fields will surely look greener and fresher when viewed without Riba colored glasses. I guess it's been a couple seasons of fog for you......

HR: I noted that you didn't include Organic in your menu - what importance do you place on the desire for organic fruits and vegies in our diet. Is the organic aspect considered icing on the (out of context) cake?

Ice Cream eaters: When I was on tx I switched from a nightly largish bowl of French Silk ice cream to a portion of frozen berries warmed in the micro, with a smallish scoop of lower-fat/lower-sugar vanilla IC on top. Delicious and at least a bit better for you....  

[FlGuy]

All is well and I'm feeling good - back to pre tx form.  Actually, softball season ended just last week.  Starts up again in January.  Promised the kid more spirited off-season practicing.  Will have the 3-month pcr in a couple of weeks and am as optimistic about that as the way I feel.  Hope all is swell with you too.

[merryBe]

hmmm.....does that line work in a coutroom  (can't leave it alone)...is that what you say to the other side of the table?  Judge would be impressed...not.

Had I not receive the couple dozen positive replys in here, and more of them privately, I probably would have let it go.
Yet since it's apparent, according to others, that you like to attack others, especially women according to some....I thought maybe the grinch needed a little stick poking....or is that something only you are allowed to do???  Persumably because you have the moral high ground or so you would like to believe.

I took the very christian tack used by Saint Paul,  of "come let us reason together", which is just as valid as leaving someone with their anger smugness and superiority intact.
Jesus also took the tack of calling people hypocrite, evil, liars, etc. Turning the other cheek is dependant on the circumstance and what ot whom is being defended.
In this case, you made your best case by saying you might be out of touch,
and, funny thing, I was just hearing some legal commentary on the fact that lack of emoting is what most likely caused MArtha Stewart to seal her own fate in the eyes of judge and jury.
evidently, the legal advice of show no pain is not always sound wisdom.

maybe since you are a lawyer, you can appreciate some of this reasoning?
That was my hope.

[mikesimon]

We aren't in a courtroom in case you didn't realize that. You're just foolish and I cannot suffer fools. Your reasoning is as flawed as a lot of the medical advice you've offered. Just get well mentally and physically and forget the reasoning because you do have a shot of getting well but reasoning ...... that's hopeless.
Mike

[Andiamo1]

Why don't you get a good night's sleep and re-read this post.  I am sure you will see how nasty and vitriolic it is.  Many of us have good reason to be angry: HCV has taken a major toll and in your case, I am sure it is a greater toll given the transplant.  That does not give you the right to be sadistic

Your posts are very informative and I appreciate them.  I think you would do yourself a favor if you toned done the anger in this one.

[Ginger12521]

Thanks for the reminder, but it's too late for me now...my liver is crying this morning!!! Turkey din-din and MANY no-no's were stuffed into this body yesterday! MM-MM-MM, pumkin pie slathered with whipped topping, pineapple-upside-down cake, and even CHOCOLATE are all in the process of pounding my liver today! I felt like such a "sinner" yesterday.... : ) I WILL be showing my liver extra TLC after the binge tho. I started the morning with my usual bowl of oatmeal laced with Schisandra berries, Lecithin Granules, fresh ground flax, and a huge teaspoon of cinnamon! I'll baby up this liver a bit more with a couple of glasses of Carrot, Beet and Celery juice, and I may even boil up some beets for supper!
Oh, I did pop a Milk Thistle last night too...lol
Thanks for all your words of wisdom!~Happy Holidays!

Ginger  8^ )

[Ginger12521]

Hi there,
New to the board, but have been reading for some time now. I've always thought rules were made to be broken? Once in a while at least... : )

I enjoy reading your posts. Wishing you good luck on tx and SVR for the upcoming year!


Happy Holidays to you and yours....
Ginger :o)

[mikesimon]

Thank you for your advice and insight. Transplantation is no excuse for my meanness - everyone has their problems. Sadism is really not an accurate description because I derive no pleasure at all from this thread or from any of the remarks I have made and my understanding of sadism is that it is driven by the pleasure one derives from the infliction of pain. Of that I am innocent. And, I am probably more upset by this thread than anyone else. I have always taken this board extremely seriously. It helped me through some very hard times and consequently it occupies a very special place in my heart. You may recall when we were advised that the forum would be split and we members weighed in on the advisability of the move. The forum was split and the rules made it abundantly clear that this side is for "questions about medical issues and research aspects of Hepatitis such as, questions about being newly diagnosed, questions about current treatments, information and participation in discussions about research studies and clinical trials related to Hepatitis." MerryBe knowingly disregarded the rules by posting this thread here and she admitted at the beginning of her thread "Gonna post his(sic) on both sides of the board, rules or no rules". Why did she knowingly break the rules Eric? Was it because she deemed the day before Thanksgiving a day when the rules really don't apply? Or was it because she thought that her perspective on Thanksgiving was simply too important to only be posted on the Community side where, according to the rules, states "if you would like to communicate with other people who have been touched by Hepatitis, please visit our new Hepatitis Community/Living with Hepatitis forum"? Is it a big thing Eric? Perhaps it isn't and perhaps the rules are merely vague guidelines and are intended to apply only when we members think it's a good idea. Really, at this stage I am not sure that I even care anymore whether this side is restricted to the medical issues or is full of threads where members post " I had a good night's rest last night' or "Hi Bobby, how are you" or "I had cornflakes this morning" or anything like that or really anything at all. And does it not logically follow that if this thread is truly appropriate here then if anyone believes that their sentiments are too important to only be posted on the Community side, we should never disagree or take exception? Maybe it's their birthday and that entitles them to be able to disregard the stated rules or maybe they just feel like posting non medical material here. I see it very differently but I see many things differently form the majority of people at large - not just the majority here on the forum.  Here I criticized her thread and admittedly not in a diplomatic or kind manner. But later I explained myself as best I could and then I believed we settled it. She said she forgave me and she wished me well and I took her at her word. Then a few posts later she mentioned my name again in, what I consider to be a unflattering context. I pointed out that her forgiveness didn't seem genuine and if it really is genuine I am left to ponder the true import of her forgiveness. I am not looking for absolution Eric so really, how she feels about me or even how I feel about her is unimportant. I do want to apologize to everyone for anything that I said that may have upset any of the members. Despite how I may come across I do not get pleasure from creating discord or stress. I am probably much too direct in my communication to be very popular and, though it may seem hard to believe, when I am at odds with something or someone I generally do try and temper my statements. Nevertheless, I fall very short of diplomacy or proper etiquette more times than I would like. From now on I will severely restrict my posts so as not to offend anyone else. So many times the quote runs through my mind: "it's a happy state of agreement in which I, for one, do not agree". I will let this go now and I hope everyone else will as well. I do not want to argue about this any longer. I hope everyone had a joyous Holiday - mine was.
Mike

[wyntre9]

So glad you had a wonderful Thanksgiving, Mike.

It's clear that halfway through this thread you extended the olive branch, it was accepted and then, for some reason, tossed in the trash.

I'm sorry that happened.

I hope you enjoy the rest of your holiday,

wyntre

[jmjm530]

I understand wanting to keep the two forums separate in content although the distinction between info and support -both in reality and as defined here -- are not that distinct. My guess is that these two discussion groups will be eventually reorganized in a clearer manner some day because there are numerous posts that could conceivably fit into either forum, given the definitions MH gave us.

That said, similar postst to MerryBe on Thanksgiving, Christmas , and other holidays, are very accepted across internet discussion groups -- at least in every one I have been a part of. I dont consider them off topc,but just a way of connecting with each other in alarger way, every now and then.

Hope you and everyone else had a very happy Thanksfgiving.

-- Jim

[merryBe]

by derogatory further you refer to:
I am so grateful that people do sometimes break "the rules" in here....
HA HA HA  (one more thankful for good measure for our Mikey!!!)  : )))))))

or else:       to better be the cookoo than nurse Rachet perhaps?

forgiveness in yout mind means no more discussion?
or it means if someone mentions anything jocular or about our human nature's corporately, than that must be a personal attact, and hence justifies more venom.

the rachet remark was aimed at all of us, since we all have feet of clay and can go there into control mode at times,, as wytre9 knows about me all too well,  I'm sorry that you weren't aware of our history, and you thought it was aimed directly at you,
it wasn't, it was a reflection of where she and I both know it's easy yo go and/or get stuck....personal attack is what you read into it is all.

But since you said I had no right to further remarks as a christian, then why after saying YOU meant no offense and would say the same to your sister, did you add to your terms of insipid arrogant and self indulgent etc. the addition insult of fool? How do you justify that???
Is that because you aren't a christian, oe because you are a self appointed judge of who is??

It's OK for you to say others are unchristian, and then call them idiots? Wow, and these seem to be non-conflicting principals in your mind?

apparantly you fail to see how your own words offended the majority.

the connotaion of fool/foolish is particularly interesting as it's the one Jesus specifically singled out as a word never to used on another human being.
Although, I've noticed it's a favorite of intellectual types,
it's also the reason I choose not to join Mensa, speaking of them earlier, (although despite my lousy/no spell check posts I could have joined).
what prevented me??  it was the people, the very people who's joy it is to make
the very remarks like the "I don't suffer fools gladly"  one above.
It was to avoid those who think their great learning puts them heads above everyone else.
St. Paul said it best....."because of my great learning God has given me this great physical handicap, in order to preserve me from the nuclear damnation of my pride".

In truth, regardless of education, or capacity Mike, each of us are intrinsically the same at the deepest levels; and "suffering fools" is just something one either does graciously or else get's stuck in haughtiness and  ego. I guess it's a personal choice we make every day, whether to say all we could say, or hold back some. Everyone's entitled to mistakes Mike, you, and all the rest of us, even in your precious forum. A forum that you are right, belongs to everyone.

Don't worry about the whole thing, I'll go back under my Burka for now, so your space will not be invaded. But rest assured, I'm not going away, just undercover to redo my nails.....grin..... so prepare yourself for more suffering.

the jester.

BTW, I did not thank God FOR the diarrea (diarrhea)....that would be foolish.
If only you had really READ the post you'd have seen that!
I thanked Him, that AFTER that suffering I realized that the drug had at least was there, and saved my life!!
Much the way you probably felt after your liver surgery, not thrilled about the hole or pain in your side, but glad the liver and docs were there to fix you in spite of whatever agony there was.You said as much.
But alas, I know this is just more simpering foolishness to you.
It makes me sad that even on a holiday
you found time for attacking, insulting, and dismissing people several times.
It makes me sad, emoting again, to see anyone miserable enough to do that!!!

I know what it's like to get personal emails, if folks get trieing or you are too sick, just encourage them to seek help in the community as well, you don't have to crucify them to justify not having time.

One recent letter I received, said they preferred not talking to people in here because of the personality issues and feeling inferior.
However, our scriptures tell us to "be all things to all people". "to weep when they weap, rejoice when they rejoice"....not to scare hurting people away because we are so above them.
I don't know if you understand the concept of obedience to the Holy Spirit of the Living God, but it is a daily offering we are told to make, "to make of ourselves living sacrifices" that our bodys and even our words should not be our own, but His hands and His words of comfort extended.
that may be a different approach than the one you have learned, only you can say.

speaking finally about law and reasoning:
You know, in the 60's I turned down an offer to go to Brandeis, because I reasoned that a carreer in law would only lead to moral dilemnas bound to eventually break down the soul into a cynical and jaded state of mind. My reasoning was on either side of the isle the constant compromises and either seeing crimals walk through bargaining, or God forbid defending them and helping them to reoffend could have none but a deleterious effect on the spirit. I wasn't sure I could live with all the personal compromises and politicing that keep real justice from so often being served.
Perhaps this is what you also concluded?  Or perhaps having labored in that field is part of your still cynical present?
who knows?

[merryBe]

thanks for all your cheerful insight, and to anyone I missed

[merryBe]

oh contrare, you guys BOTH did an excellent job with the lipid explainations,

I have been to preoccupied with a dying mother, thankgiving, no heat, this thread etc etc etc

to get back and address your responses but you are not forgotten, I'll get there, they were very much help.

and thanks for the compliment whrose, no chemistry degree here, but just thinking where lipids might they help vs. hurt. Glad you both clarified things.

[scratchinghead]

the woman asked her Gynocologist, "can you get pregnant from anal intercourse?"
he replied, "you sure can, how do think all those lawyers got here?"

har har

[Willy50]

I'm not thankful for the mean spirited comments being made.

I think that whatever use this thread may have once had also seems to have passed moving instead into inflicting injury and justifying it.

I'm not seeing useful posts; either supportive or helpful.  

Doing nothing.... not answering...... is of far greater service to the board or it's members than some of what is being posted.

IMHO

Willy