The causes of fibrosis

[Upbeat]

I was talking with a friend last week and he was having liver pain so he decided to get a biopsy. It turns out he has some fibrosis. Stage 2 what ever that means. He asked me a question I couldn't answer. He said I don't have hep-c yet I have liver problems. How do people with hep-c know their liver problems stem from the virus and not past alcohol use?  

                                                    Ron

[cuteus]

the "slang" for the question slot is a thread, MH opens 6to 8 at different times during the morning, For questions. check the terms and conditions link to make sure you are complying with their rules. It is a pretty easy site to navigate, there are no hosts, moderators or drs, just us wannabes. Some older members report in occassionally and others more frequently. Within the "thread" people have 40 slots to comment, used to be 50 until recently. Like with everything in life, there are ups and downs, food fights and make ups, but in essence I find Med Help the best support site. It certainly carried me through the diagnosis(dx) time, treatment(tx) and post tx worries. Now, I try to give back.
Welcome

[bodellen]

PS..what a string or strand or what ever they called it  oops

[bodellen]

not sure what you mean by stats??

but I spent about 3 weeks feeling pregnant or like I had motion sickness if I moved I was neauseated when I noticed my eyes turning yellow I went to the dr.liver enz at time were over 1000 so he shuffeled me over to my GI dr.and he did more tests and they came back as enzymes down aroud 100 (that was good)then the rest came a bit latter with hep c 1A ,viral load 7000, mytroncondrial body normal, alpha 1 normal, Actin smoothmuscle antibody elevated at 70 and I am scheduled for a biopsy on the 7th..no clue what all that really means but with what I have read I don't think it's as bad as I might have been thinking..I should have finished nursing school like my mama said I guess..HA! HA!

let me know if you can descramble any of this forgien language for me ..ok thanks.

by the way I am a new be on computers as well as this kind of site are there any rules ..I don't want to be rude or insult anybody by doing this in the wrong way or any thing..

thanks ELlen

[bodellen]

Hello again>>

Well I guess since we all seem to be traveling the same road on the same bus and it seems as if it may be a long and somewhat bumpy trip I should introduce myself...
  
   My name is Ellen and I am 43 years old.I am from Calif. but have lived a majority of my adult lfe in the midwest.I have a 23 yr. old daughter(and the cutest 2yr old granddaughter)A 22 year old son and an 11 year old oh my gosh you have to be kiding it's only the flu...daughter.. wouldn't trade her for the world...and am very to to have reunited with the love of my life and my first X-huband of 14 yrs...yeah ..after a short delay of game for 10 plus yrs..He is a god send to me espically now ..he is my main suport and very understanding says we can do this one thing at a time ..

  medical history is a bit of a mess.I had a complete hystrectomy 5 years ago due to an undetermined mass which thankfully turned out ben..broke my back had 2 back sur..some neurological damage and weekness in legs can't run anymore but I can walk..sm.bowel resection..inflamatory bowel w/ suspected crones but not proven yet..apendectomy..gaulblader out..and most recently aside from the obivious another mass of indetermined origin lower abd. and a noduel on the rt. upper plura throw in a bit of major depression ..(thats what they call it)and you get an Ellie, a me, but hey what the heck..I think it sounds worse than it is ..I don't feel that sick just a bit tired from time to time other than that I am great and its a good day to be alive..Thanks for making me feel welcome it means alot and god bless..

will let you know as I know and I'll keep reading

[friole]

Welcome to the forum.  I hear your anxiety.  Been there as all the good people here have.  I think your decision on whether you need to treat or not will depend a lot on the results of your biopsy.  That is what they call the "gold standard" to determine the state of your liver.  There are those with low viral loads  who have extensive liver damage, and then there are those with very high viral loads with little damage. There is no rhyme or reason to it. I don't know what any of the lab figures you gave were except the Hep C and the 1a and the viral load.  You are in good company.  I am a 1a, have been treating now for 29 weeks and the treatment is working.  I have cleared the virus, but need to do the remainder of the whole 48 weeks.  The Janis sight is excellent.  Also, when you do get the bx results, post the results here.
friole

[jaroman]

My guess is the doc was ruling out auto immune antibodies to your muscle tissue. This can also be a cause of high ALT/AST (the so called liver enzymes.)

[strator]

Sorry I don't know what the actin antybodies are. As far as treatment, there is no quick or easy answer. Best thing to do is hang around here, get more info from your doctor, take some time to add up all the particulars: drs advice, stage of liver damage if any, economics, family, ...I took 2 years after dx to start. That was the right decison for me. You'll find the right decision for you, don't expect the decision to be easy or quick, there's a lot of variables for each indivisual. Do some reading on the liver(you don't have to 'go to med school' but you'll find knowing some basics a lot of help. There's time for a lot of questions, remember this tx isn't an overnight thing, the decision isn't either. Break things down into what you can do that day....Get an  answer to 1 question, or make a drs appt, or check on nutrition with hep c....look up support groups in your area.(some use support groups long before treating). A few days here and you'll start to get a better picture.
Rest well,
Don

[bodellen]

Thank you for your reply....I will try the other site as well as tring to keep up on here...

[bodellen]

thank you to everyone..where as i am tring not to panic at the same time too afraid not to try and make some sence of it all,I am glad for any and all input

thanks again Ellen

ps does any one know what those actin antibodys are or what they indicate and how do you know if treatment is the right option for you

[jaroman]

Welcome and we are sorry you have HCV.
First, try to stay calm and begin reading everything you can about HCV; at reputable sites. When I was diagnosed,I read a ton here and learned alot of real life things. Janis website is good and there are links to studies.
http://www.janis7hepc.com/
Come back. This group is great for support,advice and some laughs.
Soon enough, you will understand your condition,and will be able to decide what to do from there.

[cajunlady]

Welcome to the forum for Hep C.  I too am sorry you have to battle this disease.  As, everyone has posted; the anxiety will disapate as you gain knowledge.  I just started Dec. 30, 2006.  Your vl looks low.  Mine was 5,300,000 at start of treatment. I am 1b geno type. The abbreviations we all use here can get confusing at times, they did for me.  Just ask if you do not understand one. More people will post to you with more info.  

Strator:  Thank You for giving him a few of the abbreviations.  I was confused for about 3 weeks as to what they meant; I could only guess.  So, Good move on that.

Try and relax; learn about Hep C and the treatment available.

cajun

[strator]

As jaroman said stay calm...most of us let the anxiety needlessly overwhelm us before we gained some knowledge and support. Patience will be your best friend. There are people here that understand what medical numbers mean better than I. They'll be along. Many of us have had this for decades  before we were diagnosed. As people come along to help you, here's some abbreviations that might help you understand what they are saying.
sx: side effects
tx: treatmnet
bx: biopsy(is that what you are getting on the 7th?)
VL: viral load(yours looks pretty low)
You'll find a lot of support here, a lot of knowledge and opinions.  Keep posting and reading but don't get over come with fear of what you don't yet know. There are answers and solutions.
Be well,
Don

[beamishboy]

Sorry bout yur condition,by no means an expert on lab #'s so will leave that to the well versed members..Another good place to gain  info ,insights,inspiration & sum sorely needed chuckles is in the Archives at top of opening page..i spent countless hours learning & appreciating the courage& good humor& fellowship available at this forum...Tnhepguy has posted links to many sites that directly address hep-c treatment,news,studys,all kinds of good stuff ! strongly urge yu to learn all yu can from everybody everywhere and then yu can make informed decisions...GoodLuck& keep postin

[landfill]

I think that the fibrosis (scarring) forms after an extended period of inflammation as elsewhere in the body.  In the case of HCV, the inflammation is caused not by the virus but the immune response that's trying to get rid of it.  Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

[bodellen]

too lost...don't know for sure what my question is....But heres the deal..DX last week with hep c 1a,,liver panel was over 1000 should have been 60?  more test revealed  viral load at 7000  mytrocondrial body normal  alpha 1 normal  actin smooth muscle body70 should be 0  liver biopsy coming on the 7th  ....CAN ANY BODY TELL ME WHAT ANY OF THIS MEANS IN TERMS I CAN UNDERSTAND?????PLEASE AND THANKYOU

[susan400]

Like a lot of people, I had Hep C for years without knowing it.  I have figured out that I was infected in 1983.  However, I drank quite a bit and once I found out I was infected, I gave up drinking and cigarettes.  But, the damage had already been done.  I'm in early cirrhosis, the bridging stage.  I used to drink every night, for years after I got the Hep C (since I didn't know).  I was probably bordering on being an alcoholic.  I would also bring a flask in my purse to spike my coke, whenever I had to be somewhere where there was no booze.  And off course, there was the weekend binge drinking.  Anyhow, I'm paying the price for my folly.  

Susan400

[antman]

the more i read and study, the more i realize- there seems to be no ryme or reason why some people have more damage than others. for instance: i have been a drinker most of my life since 14 years old. i've taken many drugs in my life. i am 50M, had hepC for 35 or so years-my damage: st. 1, gr. 2, VL 750,000 while i've read people younger, shorter infection time, lower VL, with HepC have more damage. i really believe the #1 factor is the strength of the immune system and genetics. Interferon is a immune system booster. it overloads your system with a naturally occuring substance(Intfn.)so your body can kill the virus. the stronger your immune system the less damage. IMO. now, my DR. said basically the same thing Don said, alcohol and toxins(drugs) speed up the damage. that's why i quit drinking and druggin'. why push it, and stress out my immune system? BTW- the literature with Pegasys and Peg- Inron say  "this is not a cure for Hep C". however we know if you are SVR for 6 mos or 1 yr. one IS considered cured. so said my NP. i like to belive that.it's what i'm shooting for when i treat this year.
antman

[bobbyullc]

I DO NOT THINK YOU CAN TELL IF THE DAMAGE IS FROM HEP OR ALCOHOL BUT IT IS EVERYONES OPINION THAT ALCOHOL IS MURDER ON THE LIVER EVEN WITHOUT HEP C.I HAVE HEARD OF PEOPLE GETTING CIROSSIS FROM JUST MODERATE USE. NOT A GOOD COMBO WITH HEP C. I HAVE BEEN FIGHTING ALCOHOLISM FOR 23YEARS NOW AND AM AFRAID IT WILL GET ME BEFORE THE HEP C.
BOBBY

[strator]

upbeat-I don't kow if anyone can be sure which caused what damage. My understanding though is that the alcohol works as a catalyst creating damage faster when hep c is there. (My doc said it's like giving amphetamines to the bad guys, 'here this'll give ya the energy and endurance to really wreak havoc.')Yet I can only figure genetics, diet and everything else come into play. I know of people that have had more liver damage than me although they drank less and have no dx of hep c. Knowing my history the docs I've dealt with were all suprised I didn't have more damage. Yet they all warned I could go from fibrosis to cirroshis in a heartbeat if I drink.
I experienced liver pain before I stopped drinking but now I don't notice any. I'm a 53yro grade 2, Stage 1 to 2, despite being a 24hr a day drinker and drugger for all but 10yrs of my adult life. I wonder that some people who drank a lot during adolescent growth years may have stymied later liver health.
You can find out more about stges and grades at the janis7hepc site.
Good thoughts for you and your friend,
Don

[cquest]

I never drank and my liver is in pretty good shape...I bet you that if I drank, my liver would be in worse shape...just my opinion but I think the drinking can mess you up worse than the hepc...
Cin