Too Many Supplements

[sisterbabymama]

I have a list of around 30+ vitamins, herbs, minerals, etc. that are all purported to support the liver. Even if I could afford to, there's no way I'd take them all at one time. Concerned about toxicity, interaction and mainly just liver overload. My question is this, if you could take only 2-3 supplements at a time, what would they be? [I'm Type 1 and so far have avoided the conventional therapy. I take Rx Zoloft and Lisinopril/HCTZ.]

Milk thistle seems to be the one "tried and true," does your experience bear this out? And is it true that it is not a good idea to supplement iron?

[CJ807]

yes it's true about the iron.HCV will propagate to different parts of the body and that includes areas  that control thyroid function if not the thyroid itself. If you are getting routine blood test see that TSH lvls are being monitored. You are already at higher risk being a women of your age and iron supp's may compromise you further. But if you're very healthy it may be okay to take iron supp's. Of course I'm not doctor, I only play one when I look at my labs.

the other stuff I don't know.  

[jamimapuddle]

Yeah, I'm trying to figure out the same thing.  I'm on tx so that complicates things also.  I posted a similar question a couple of days ago ( I even tried to flag HR with the post), but no one responded.

[scratchinghead]

I posted a similar question a couple of days ago ( I even tried to flag HR with the post), but no one responded.
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I guess I'm no one. Oh well. What's new? But your post did pivot around the fact that you didn't have a lot of money. You've got to figure your budget out first. We're/I'm not a vitamin store waiting to be talked down. I only gave you advice on a couple of the very basics that should be part of everyone's diet.

[scratchinghead]

All in all? There is some really good argument that supplements don't do shi^t. The trick is to figure out what you are deficient in and see if you can fix that with your diet. Then again, treatment is a whole other bag I'm not an expert in either. You just want HR to snuggle up to you and make you feel warm and fuzzy all over. Don't know, might happen!

[jamimapuddle]

    I am very sorry you got offended, I was actually talking about a post I posted after that. The whole issue of sat. fats came up in another post, HR suggested a couple of supplements (a lot of which would break the bank).  HR has also suggested PPC (another really expensive supp.)  So I tried to flag him and no one responded, that was all.
   I deeply appreciate it when people answer my questions, including your answer.  I value any input.
   That being said,,,I am very leery of really expensive vitamins.  I think that the vitamin and supplement industry preys on sick people like us.  My grandfather spent a small fortune on supplements (shark cartilage etc...) for his cancer before he died.  You CAN get alot of things through diet alone, including B and C.
   I also want to do anything that would ensure that I live to see my grandchildren.  So if there are supplements out there that are THAT important for us to take I want to know.

[jamimapuddle]

And oh yes, I definitely want HR to make me feel warm and fuzzy...don't you?

[Willy50]

These looked like studies which support the use of these "alternatives" or at the very least larger studies.  This article is from reports at the last AASLD conference.  -Willy
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http://www.hivandhepatitis.com/2007icr/aasld/docs/120407_b.html

Two studies presented at the recent 58th Annual Meeting of the American Association for the Study of Liver Diseases in Boston (November 2-6, 2007) looked at botanical therapies for patients with hepatitis C.

The article pertains to 3 different botanicals;
Glycyrrhizin ( derived from licorice root), Silymarin and Sho-saiko-to.

[gauf]

On tx you should take Hepatapro. I will also take milk thistle for sure and Qo2. Contemplating others/

[merryBe]

I don't know how HR finds time to answer any of us!!!
He may have some dictation software that he's gotten to work (like mine never has)...
or he may just be the fastest typist in the world,
but he also helps people on the HBV side of the forum, and is a Very Busy research doctor,
so I wouldn't take it personally if he misses some posts.
After all, he spends his day looking for cures and tests for this disease...

if you can't get all the supplements, try adding just what you think is more important.

[scratchinghead]

And oh yes, I definitely want HR to make me feel warm and fuzzy...don't you?
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Yes, now that I think about it. Thanks for rolling with this one. Sometimes in the morning I am very confrontational and I'm not even on treatment.

:)

[merryBe]

if you want my opinion, I'd be more inclined to try to add a few things that HR has recommended than to try to add 30 things you've read are good. the research on some things is substantial, and other things have not really shown any definitive improvement and are still touted as elixers.

remember, the egytpians??  they used fly dung to rub into wounds for centuries.
so better you should buy one or two things that are viable and researched than 20 cheap things that aren't.
Mary

[Alek07]

whatever you do don't try to take every supplement you read about. There countless supplements purported to support the liver- some work some don't. Some work for some people but not for others. The key is to work out what works best for You. It is a slow process but definitely can be worthwhile.

I would recommend however, that Milk Thistle and basic antioxidants Vits C & E are an excellent starting point. Also Lipoic Acid and selenium. Maybe you could read up on the Berkson Protocol for hep C which relies on a relatively small number of supplements but all of them pack a powerful punch against the damage caused by the virus. Numerous studies have been done on most of the components of the protocol and there is sound scientific rationale behind the there use for hep c.

Monitor your liver enzymes regularly and be mindful that iron overload is a potential issue with hep C sufferers (except menstruating women) so avoid iron supplements. Also take Vit C away from iron containing meals because it increases absorption of iron.

[St. George]

Use selenium and vitamin c.  Both increase the synthesis of glutathione and selenium by itself has been shown to cut the risk of many types of cancer in half.  Selenium is my #1 choice to stave off liver cancer.

[orphanedhawk]

My heptalogist said too much iron can cause cirrhosis.I take an iron free multi-vitamin.
For my liver, I take milk thistle, ALA, omega fish oil, tumeric,bromelain, and SAM-E.
My suggestion, no matter what you take, is to add each one slowly in case you are allergic.

[Mr Liver]

"Also take Vit C away from iron containing meals because it increases absorption of iron."

Very good advice---most don't know of the connection between vitamin c and increased iron absorption. In fact, you are the first one I've personally seen to have done so online.
As you noted vitamin c has anit-oxidant properties which are known to protect against injury, but too much is not good. Just to add a little more to what you said: If too much vitamin c is taken the increased iron absorption can actually lead to oxidative stress (injury) leading to the production of more collagen. This is what the fibrotic strands are made of. For these reasons my doc recommends a middle-of-the road approach and advises to stay within the RMDA of 65 mg per day.

Those with more serious liver disease should consider their choices carefully when it comes to vitamins and supplements. Thanks for your post.

regards,
Mr Liver

[sisterbabymama]

Thank you all for the specific recommendations and very helpful links.

[jamimapuddle]

I asked HR about this again, and he gave me a great answer, of course the answer was specific to someone on tx.

But you should still check it out, it's posted as HEPATITIS RESEARCHER

[Willy50]

Agreed, the information on iron is very important.  This is one area where we do have some control.  WE can either bring our iron up (not all heppers have low iron) and we can also reduce our iron thru phlebotomies or by more careful diet.  For more information on that topic google "iron overload" or "hemochromatosis" on a search engine or on this board search engine.  Iron absorbtion can also be decreased thru drinking many teas or coffee with ones meal.  Particularly do not take vitamin C with meals or around them unless you are trying to increase ones iron stores.  I also particularly recommend checking ones iron stores and getting it right before starting TX.

Selnium use should not exceed 200/mc per day

The use of Vitamin E is also also an area where there has been debate over it's overuse.

All of these vitamins and supplements have limits generally speaking and I suggest that people seek out those limits and check them out before taking them.  

Here is one source but I will admit that the amounts are not always in agreement with other sources I've used.  
http://www.supplementquality.com/news/multi_vitamin_chart.html

http://www.supplementquality.com/news/multi_mineral_chart.html

There is also another theory that people who are fighting off infections and viruses may have increased need of some vitamins and supplements.  That is still being studied.  They are finding that it has some merit in the case of HIV.

best,
Willy

[SteveHepC]

I totally agree with your advice. However, I think she should add NAC, 600mg, and always take it with water soluble Vitamin C, 500mg. I would take that at least twice a day, even three times wouldn't hurt.

Good Luck to all,

Steve