Tx and mary jane

[carolhab]

I am interested in hearing about any factual evidence that using medical marijuana would hinder tx.  I have heard that it's okay from some folks, but from the docs, I get either an 'I don't know', a discouraging strange stare, or an answer saying that there is no research to prove anything either way, but don't do it...
Has anyone used it through tx, and thinks it made a difference in the end result?
thanks guys
sammy

[Magnum]

I haven't used it during because I never thought of asking, although in retrospect, I wish I did, but I spoke to my gastro about this nearly a month ago and he said it should not effect anything. I'm sure different doctors have different opinions, but just recently on CNN, they say medical marijuana helps prevent Alzheimer. Could this be a natural gift?

Magnum

[snook_man]

There was a study a while back, suggesting that marijuana use increases liver fibrosis.. Also seen one somewhere that suggests that marijuana decreases the effectivness on interferon..

[rsterling]

I am a geno1, 11/48 to go.  I decided after much research and a lot of time watching & listening on this forum, to use marijuana on treatment to help with sides.  Very little, only when really needed, but it's benefits have been multiple for me.  I also didn't want to rely heavily on prescription drugs for the sides and have to deal with coming off of those and dealing with those sides after treatment.  I don't have time.  Being a sole provider, I have to get back to as normal as possible, as quickly as possible after treatment.  Being in California where it's legal for me also contributed to my decision.  So at 3 month, and 6 month, marijuana didn't seem to alter my response to treatment, and like I stated the benefits have been multiple.

[Califia]

Ditto the above experience.   I wrestled hard w/ the French pilot study suggesting a causal link between marijuana use and fibrosis, and frankly, I can only conclude that the science was muddy.  I don't reach this conclusion out of convenience or wishful thinking.   For starters, the patient group was using alcohol and IV drugs in addition to marijuana,  which in my book is an obvious study flaw.   I've spent a lot of time reading about cannabinoids and receptors, and it is indeed puzzling and troublesome that a high number of receptors have been found in the livers of cirrhotics.  But  here's the question that's still unanswered:  is the presence of these receptors a cause, or is it an effect?   I wonder if their presence isn't _compensatory.   One of the primary physiological functions of cannibinoids, whether they're found in marijuana or inside the body itself (these are called "endogenous" -- that is, the body makes its own) -- is the stimulation of appetite.   Do you see where I'm going with this?

So after a lot of reading and thinking, I continue to exercise my rights as a registered MM patient.  However, I do not smoke.  I use a vaporizer, which eliminates the nasty carcinogenic byproducts of smoking.   I have found that a bit of cannabis controls nausea far better than prescription Phenergan.  Ditto headaches.   I had not  used cannabis for years until I started treatment,  and much to my great surprise, found it to be a total lifesaver.

[carolhab]

thanks for the replies, I too am in Ca and have access to MM.
I am using very little, approx 1 to 2x a week, usually the day after shot night.  I find it very helpful, and it helps me function, helps with the appetite, nausea, and anxiety I sometimes get.
I remember one time asking Misha Cohen about it years back when I was seeing her before I was on tx, and she did not see how it would be harmful to the hepc.  It's a tough call, I don't want to do anything to possibly decrease tx results, but I can't can't see how MM could have an impact, considering we take all the other foods, drugs, suppls etc. that are appproved by the docs. Cal - thanks for the info about the study - yes I see where you are going - cause/effect, definateley a flawed study... maybe someday the drug company will start a trial study for tx and MM (not!) - why would they when they can make all that money prescribing the meds we take for sides?  a cottage industry, if you ask me....
many blessings
sammy    

[Califia]

Just a little postscript:  UCSF did a study which showed higher SVR rates amongst  their MJ users.   The researchers speculated that marijuana enabled better compliance w/ tx protocol.   As for cannabis interfering w/ interferon--I've never encountered that research anywhere.  Source, Snookmeister?

[new-sojourn]

I'm a Medical Marijuana user also from the sunny state of Washington. I was infected in 2-67 and dx in 9-01, a 2b.  I cl'd by day 18 in 5-02.

I was end stage, no private or public insurance.  I got in a study that paid for meds b/no add'l Rx's for sx's.  And I was smokin' anyway @ the time.  Altho I had quit for 20 odd yrs prior to this.

My medicine of choose was the only thing I used other than a little tylonal and an otc sleep aid occ. fin 24wks of 3 shots a wk and daily riba.  And had an 'easyish' b/pretty mellow time of it.

So now I'm my own little Amsterdam.   I can freely and legally use when I choose.  Now I'm gettin' serious about growin' my own b/c the only thing bad about marijuana now is getting it.

The funny thing is that altho I'm still SVR and consider myself cured, hep c is listed as a cronic, uncurable disease so I'm legal for life.  Which is fine w/ me.

My MM friends in Oregon have the bomb stores to get their meds.  Even hash, seeds and seedlings.  We in WA still have to deal w/the underground, black market.  and no seeds...  Ain't it a *****!

[snook_man]

Well the study I saw that stated that marijuana use greatly diminished the effectiveness of peginterferon 2a, was in patients being treated for genitial warts. Patients that smoked marijuana daily, did not respond to the peg 2a treatment. Those that did not use marijuana responded rapidly. They have not studied it in direct correlation to HCV, but assume the same.
If you have seen the french study, you have also seen this one.
Marijuana is a known "immune suppressant", and that is the last thing you want while you are trying to boost your immune system to kill the virus.. Yes it helps alleviate the sx's, but at what cost? How many that have used marijuana and been geno 1's, relasped.. I know of six.. Four of whom are in California, and based off their Dr's recommendations, will retreat without the use of Marijuana..

As with every other thing in the world, what works for one, might not work for another.. Personally, I dabble in the "tweeds" on the ocassion..

[DebbieDo]

I personally i didn't want to use sleep aides, AD's, or anyother type drug. After about 3 months into TX i asked my GI if it would hurt if i smoke a litte weed to cut the edge off things during TX. He said that it would not interfere with TX.....AND, i can tell you one thing, it sure helped me alot to get through tx.....
     Deb  (from SoCAL)

[Magnum]

So basically, what I gather from all these gathered opinions, is that no one is really sure and that there are a lot of oposing opinions. Kind of reminds of politics. I guess a couple of hits daily can't make that much difference, but I'm no expert. I also knew of a woman who was constantly on weed big time while on TX and she cleared. So, like Lewis Black says, "What may treat you, may kill the person next to you". Until I find out 100% that Canabis Sativa is going to interupt and alter the treatment, I will be doing a couple of hits and will be listening to Jimmy Hendrix, Eric Clapton and Bob Dylan 'till the cows come home or until my gastro says "NO" emphatically. So far he said it makes no difference. I think I found the right gastro for me... By the way, there is a song that is titled "What If God Was One Of Us", but I heard a different version, and I don't mean to berate any religious zealots, because I'm religious also, and the title is "What If God Smoke Canabis".... It's all harmless humor. May we all clear soon............

Magnum

[Califia]

Snook,  no, I haven't seen the genital warts study--mercifully my personal research doesn't extend in that direction (!) --  do you happen to have a cite on hand?   As for these mysterious Californians, who? what? where?  This is "hearsay,"  unsubstantiated information, and if it can be verified,  then I'm all ears, believe me.   Btw, I have never read any research on cannabis as an immune suppressant.  It has been described repeatedly as the opposite.   And Magnum's right:  the research is preliminary, and it's up to all us individually to find our way through the thickets.  Learning how to analyze studies and critique study design is invaluable....never thought I'd be learning biochemistry at this point in my life.   This is perhaps the only aspect of having HCV that doesn't suck, methinks.

Rev,  am still in the lower ranges of upper riba...a moderate return to the headaches and nausea of early tx...no negative impact after 2 weeks on creatine level, other tests not back yet....   Try to keep focused on the incredible work you just did on the fibrosis, old boy.... Glass half full and all that...where DID I put my wallet?

[cuteus]

you sure you own a wallet?

[cbee]

Just my two cents . . .

A couple of weeks ago after all else had failed with helping my sleep, I tried a couple hits.  Needless to say, I got lightheaded, needed some water so I tried to stand up (slowly) and fell down, felt dizzy, tried to get up again, felt nauseaus, fell down, got dizzy and this went on for over 1/2 hr.  As I laid in my bed (that I finally got back into, I spent the entire night obsessing (and not sleeping), I decided that I won't be trying this again!

Pot does lower your immune system, dries you out (notice the red dry eyes and "cotton mouth?").  It makes those of us who have tight muscles about to stretch and relax but my acupunturist told me it causes more inflamation (inflammation) in the body afterwards - which I have noticed!  Those of us on treatment don't need this as we already have some of these sx.

BTW, I am not a virgin pot smoker.  But over the years have noticed it's not so much fun anymore.  Depending on where it's grown, what pesticides, etc. are in it, you could be putting a lot of toxic chemicals in to your body.  I don't know anything about the "medical" stuff, but this is just the common stuff - yes, here in So. Cal.!  So please beware.

-cbee

[Califia]

All the trappings of a solid citizen....

[Califia]

Two examples from the morass of contradictory research out there.   The first,  which I assume Snook was referring to, describes the case of one hapless patient with genital warts:

<a href=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1660417&dopt=Abstract><b>Genital warts do not respond to systemic recombinant interferon alfa-2a treatment during cannabis consumption.<b></a>

And, by contrast, here is a 2004 study from researchers at the University of South Florida:

<a href=http://www.news-medical.net/?id=4990><b>THC in Marijuana May Block the Spread of Forms of Cancer Causing Herpes Viruses<b></a>

[indyjo]

Just my 2 cents as well.I'm a former pot smoker (like an earlier post, I found that the older I got, the less I enjoyed the high -started to feel like i had glue poured on my brain and besides I am radomly tested at work) and I think that if used in moderation to manage sxs and allow tx to be tolerable then go for it. I don't get the comments re smoking for life, unless there is a medical reson for it. Basically if one is through with treatment and isn't dealing with liver failure, why the need for a life time of use. THC is a drug like any other drug. Just because it is grown vs being manufactured in a lab doesn't mean a thing. A drug is a drug is a drug. Moderation in the use of all drugs is the key.

[new-sojourn]

Where do you get the sh*t you're smokin'?  2 puffs and fallin' down, spinnin, blackin' out...no wonder you worry about chemicals...tht sounds like you were dusted!

As to legal for life, that means I can grow and keep on hand a small amt for medicinal use.  I have a whole lotta stress in my life and prefer a hit to a pill-AD, AR med, etc.  A pill stays in the body and causes all sorts of problems and most pill popppers never think olf themselves as high.  Such as taken for colds, headaches, allergies, hey fever, migrains, etc.

Personally, I think my health is rebounding b/c I take no other chemicals for any other health problems.  So a little pot hits the spot and its free if you grow your own.

[LvdByGod!]

i thought i heard that the effects of pot stays in the body for 7 years after use...or was that cocain?

well, as you might guess i'm against "illegal" drug use...so for me that would be out... of course "Medical" pot is not illegal so that is not an issue... but,the suggestions of increased fibrosis is enough to scare me and say "it's not worth the risk to me...

some of us (aprox 50%) will not clear... so after all the tx it is at least nice to know that we have a great chance to decrease our fibrosis level and buy ourselves more time...smoking pot could possibly ruin that benifit to tx...so why risk it? for me this would be way too much to sacrifice...

i did not clear but am so thankful i did not waste my efforts being on tx and perhaps the tx helped in this area anyway...

the other thing to think about is that even after we clear we should stay away from things that can continue to cause our liver's damage...i would want long term studies on pot use in liver damaged people before chancing that either...

my belief is that if it is something that goes in your body your liver must detoxify it even if it is plant material...some plant materials have poisons that can kill us...so just because it's "natural" doesn't mean it is safe...

but, who's to say which is worse medical pot or sleeping pills?...i couldn't say...sleeping pills can really mess up people lives...pot can make people stupid and cause memory loss...gee which shall i use?  i guess i would try for the least toxic fix to the problem...or just suffer through the side...abstanance is the least toxic for sure. i'm sure tx is the more toxic than either of the medicines put together...so if a person can get along without added toxins than that is clearly best...

i really wish they would do more safety studies on MM and alot of other prescription drugs the FDA clears...i took vioxx for a couple years and now i have a heart murmer...course it could have been caused by the riba!!!

good luck to the MM users...hope it helps you and pray you clear with no fibrosis progression...

[Califia]

You've really gotten to the nub of the matter here:  There needs to be neutral research done, lots of it.   I thought the following news story was pretty illustrative of what researchers are currently up against.  Donald Abrams, MD is an early AIDS researcher and a local medical hero:

<a href=http://my.webmd.com/content/Article/73/81986.htm?printing=true><b>Medical Marijuana Slowly Gains Ground:  Clinical Studies Begin to Replace Emotion with Evidence</b></a>

[DRAGON SLAYER]

http://hepcassoc.org/aasld2004.html#cannabis

[cbee]

I can tell you for sure it wasn't "dusted."  I can also tell you that I have no tolerance for anything and hate people on this treatment - among other various wonderful sx.  If you knew me before you'd be worried for me.  I am not ME anymore!  I, like those on tx, inject a chemo drug every week and pop those lovely Ribarivin twice a day.  Why then would you think having an adverse reaction to another drug (pot) is so strange?!  I'm glad it works for you but it certainly caused a problem for me.  This isn't a question about morality on whether one should use a drug that isn't legalized. It just scewed me up and might do the same to someone else.  Like I said - my two cents.

-cbee

-cbee

[LvdByGod!]

thanks for the great articles!

[Califia]

You're most welcome.   Glad someone else is finding them of interest, too.

[sunspot]

Thank you all for this discussion. I’ve been wondering if one toke before bedtime on the night of my injection might help.
Just to clarify, I’m not looking to get stoned. I’m well past that at this stage in my life.

[carolhab]

hhhmmm... to toke or not to toke.. THAT is the question!!!!
I just don't know where I fall out of this discussion, but I do still take a puff when I am feeling reeeaaalllly lousy.. and it does help soooo much, and I am not doing it to get high... although it is a nice by-product.... ah the sides of the meds to combat the sides of the meds to combat the sides of the meds - its just all a swirl after awhile...

[phtby]

I am not a drinker or into street drugs other than pot Just finished a 6 month treatmet and smoked heavily during the six mos. used to smoke occasionaly but found it helped my symptoms so much that i was almost smoking it like cigs,about an eigth every day or two. Have since quit,just trying to change my whole lifestyle to a healthier one, but would recommend it to anyone for symptom relief that might be willing to face any legal or moral issues regarding its use. it was worth it to me. I just considered it another prescription cost.