Vampire Question

[jmjm530]

For those of you who have frequent blood tests and/or worn veins...

Are their alternate veins the blood technician can use other than the main ones in the crook of the arm? How about smaller needles? Or smaller tubes so they don't have to take as much blood? I ask this because my two main veins in the words of the technician "feel a little hard" and a couple of times had to stick me twice. Probably calloused from too much testing over the years.

-- Jim

[v eggie dip]

gyn visits????  male, female, or both?   hahahaha


you're goofy  LOL

[GoofyDad]

I do the dental deal every 3-4 mos too. It's not sooo bad, but I do count the minutes till I'm out of there. Now those gyn visits...sometimes I wonder why I even bother. Yeow!

[v eggie dip]

I love dental cleanings...I go every 3 months...

I know, I'm a dip  hahaha

[Forseegood]

Funny about fears and phobias, I'm going to a dental cleaning this sat and I find it's no big whup. Hey...youre not goofy, what's the story behind the handle? ha ha!.

[GoofyDad]

Sorry, I've only had/seen it used in the normal elbow spot. And they take the same amount of juice. I dunno about the pain, I've never felt it to be painful anyway. I don't particularly like getting stuck, but I'd accept about 10 blood draws to get out of one dental cleaning, f'rexample.

[dammitjanet]

I totally believe in the g-c.  Has made a huge difference for me.  Many of my bowling partners are seniors, and I frequently recommend it to them.  They initially balk at the cost, but when they try it they get good results.  Also, if you have a health care spending account and your doctor authorizes it, you can be reimbursed for the cost.  DJ

[Forseegood]

Thanks for the thoughtful explanation, you didn't mention less pain? big selling point for me.  I'm all for them getting all blood products from sticking your finger. In fact, I'm such a wus about drawing blood, that I go to the local pharmacy that has this outfit there once a month who take readings from your finger. They keep adding more and more tests, they are up to doing a glucose, a cholesterol panel, alt and ast, etc. Anyway, I can dream.

[GoofyDad]

The butterfly is just a smaller gauge needle. It has a thin 10" tube attached to the non-business end of the needle. The tube delivers the blood to the vials. The handle, as it were, is made up of two opposing flaps of plastic on either side of the needle apperatus. These are like the wings of a small butterfly (moth may be more appropriate). From the looks of things, one advantage is the needle can be laid flatter against the skin during insertion, making for a better angle of entry.

Try this visual. Take a largish moth. Add a really long needle-like snout. Remove his legs and stick a long thin tube up his butt. There you have it.

[Forseegood]

Just wanted to thank you all for this thread and Jim for coming up with it. I had a real traumatic (well, it was traumatic for me anyway) incident happen in taking my blood and now I'm nearly phobic about having it taken. If I even get even a whiff that it's some rookie going to take it and they are nervous or something because I'm nervous (a contact high so to speak) I have no problem getting a little salty about it and demanding that I get an experienced health worker, even if I get some "looks." I guess those Quest labs are all over the place. This butterfly thing sounds like a real option for me. If someone could, could you give me more details about it? I'm a little punchy today.

[Forseegood]

just wanted to say that a study came out recently from the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) no less, that glucosamine&chondrointin is just as good as that very dodgy drug "Celebrex" in helping with the pain of knee injury from arthritis. They are finally doing some studies on these supplements! I'd post the study but I don't want to run afoul.

[jmjm530]

I'm guessing going to the hosp for Procrit is an insurance issue, nothing more.

They used a butterfly on me today in one of my smaller veins. The phlebotomist (sp?) did say, however, that if you draw over three tubes there is a chance of the sample hemotolizing with the smaller needle since the blood comes out slower. Anyway, she drew five tubes with the smaller needle and seemed satisfied. Thank you everyone for all the advice on the butterfly needle and alternate draw sites. What I found was that they will use the smaller needle and other veins but you have to be somewhat assertive or they'll just take the easy route.

[dendel]

A couple of weeks ago it was 9.6  They made me stop one pill.
On Monday it was 10.1.  I have Financial Aid I pay nothing.
Truthfully I have been feeling worse each day.  I am not a
Happy Camper.  But I am sure alot of everyone here feels the
same.  Have a good day.   Adele

[cougareyes]

The administration of your procrit may be due to an insurance coverage issue. What is your Hgb now.   Good Luck

[dendel]

I forgot about the butterfly.  They do not hurt at all. I do
not see why any lab would not do a finger stick. Babies get
them all the time.  Don't let any more then two sticks per
person.  If they don't get it ask for someone else. No one
should be stuck more then twice.  Oh Jim I am getting my Procrit
the 12th.  But they are making me go to Hospital and they will
give it to me.  I wonder why.  I can stick myself for the interfuron. Doesn't make sense.  Have a good day.  Adele

[snook_man]

Vitamin C should be individualized.. I was recommended to supplement until bowel tolerance. (you know what I mean!)
For me, 3000mg a day. I also take 800mg of vitamin E a day. This is recommended by my DOCTOR, and a widely published medical study.
Alpha Lipocic, has been used in Europe for centuries to treat diseases of the liver. Very, very important supplement for people with liver disease. I only take maybe 200mg a day.
But oils are a great addition also! Fish body oils with Omega fatty's, flaxseed, cod liver, etc. Lecitin is also an anti-fibrotic that has shown effective against halting liver fibrosis in rats, and a good source of soy protein.

But one thing I think was essential to me going 48 weeks WITHOUT procrit, was Folic Acid! I supplemented with 400mcg a day.

Just my 2 cents!

[Forseegood]

Hi Guys, I know Jim is a cool guy so I don't think he'd mind if I hi-jacked his thread to answer you guys about my vitamin-herb regimen. Also I like the title of his thread. (Oh, and I always thought that guys are kinda veiny on top of their hands, a good place to draw, eeek, makes me shudder to think of it, ha!)

I think it's probably better that I go up the board so you won't miss my answer to you on a previous thread. Sorry I've been remiss in answering your questions, I've been pretty busy. You both asked about my regimen and how I have come to it. I have decided on this regimen after having consulted plenty of integrative specialists, nutritionists etc, through the years.  Even my own hepatologist - who is pretty open-minded about this sort of thing. Also a whole lot of trial and error - tweaking my regimen so it is really helpful for

[Forseegood]

Yeah, but 500 of the Ester C is enough for me, sometimes I take 1000 but not often. I have a pretty sensitive system. Also one should be careful not to take C with any high iron foods as it binds to it. I just like to err on the side of caution so I wait 2 hours after a meal like that. Like I said with the ALA (alpha lipoic acid) I can't take it cause I'm hypoglycemic, but it's fine if youre not. I also neglected to mention aloe vera juice, 4 oz a day is great for retaining moisture in the skin, plus a lot of other nutrients, so is a bowl of oatmeal a day.

I also eat a lot of veggies and fruits, lots of tomatoes and olive oil! nuts and seeds, and I eat bread that is not wheat based, almond and brown rice bread, things like that, sounds weird but tastes good. I also try to stay away from any white foods and simple carbs, except on special occasions, etc. I personally think a really bad diet full of greasy cooked food and lots of sugar is almost as bad as drinking for the liver, let the bullets fly but I think that. Food is the one thing youre liver has to deal with on an almost hourly basis. I know I sound judgemental and I don't mean to, I just worry about people, the things I hear that people are eating, and they are 3rd and 4th stage, sheesh! Even these recipes that people are posting on hep c boards, yikes! anyway,,,,,,

[rifleman]

Top of forearm and back of wrist. Most leeches are pretty good at finding a vein by feel.  Ask them to use butterfly sa indicated above.  After that, ask them to tape down a gauze pad TIGHTLY.  Leave it on for a few hours and you will not even get a tiny scab.
DJL

[jmjm530]

LOL. But seriously now, educate me on the plumbing. Where exactly are the alternate draw sites except the crook of arm? I do have some veins in the forearm but they don't seem very pronounced. Maybe have to pump them up a bit. Quest can really does a hatchet job sometimes but the temps at my docs office were even worst.

I'll ask about the butterfly needle next time but they seem to have their system. I actually skipped today's blood test to give my arm a rest. Anyway, I don't need a blood test to know I'm anemic, just for HOW anemic. And now that I'm on 60,000 U/Procrit a week, not sure what else I can do except either tough it out or reduce riba which I'm not inclined to do.

-- Jim

[snook_man]

Man, I know how you are feeling.. Everytime I go to Quest, I pray that this one nurse is there as she leaves no bruising. Never digs, never misses.
last draw, they blew my vein, and I had a large lump and bruise for nearly two weeks.
You can draw from ANYWHERE. Most only take a 4 hour phlebotomy class to obtain certification, and are only trained for the vein in the crook of arm.I like to mess with the techs, and lean my head over and tap my neck.. Tell them to bite hard!!! One tech seriously told me that he had not been trained to take blood from there, only the arm. I asked for another tech, ASAP!!!
My wife also agrees with Mike's advice above on the butterfly! It's a small gauge needle made for small veins. It will drawn slower, but this isn't a race! I request it everytime I get mine drawn. The 18gauge that they typically use, leaves a scar. That is the same gauge used for blood donors when massive amounts are drawn as quick as possible.
But I highly recommend bending your neck over next time and tapping your jugular.. It always gets a laugh out of me when I see the reaction of the technician! Gotta have fun!

[v eggie dip]

yes it was a great relief to know it was ultra sound guided, no thumping at all!!!!  I'll have to give the Doc "what for" when I see him, he told me they thump!!!

I have an appointment on the 18th and I am hoping the results will be back by then...

Whether to treat or not treat is my option...I am sure if my biopsy comes back with little or no liver damage they will try to discourage me from tx, but if I decide that is what I want to do, then they have to find me someone who will monitor it...

Here in Ontario, all the lab work and tests (i.e. biopsy, ultra sounds, etc)and Docotr appointments and hospitalizations are covered by OHIP (ontario health insurance coverage)and every Canadian (or in my case landed immigrant) carries a OHIP card...But not all Canadians have drug coverage...I have excellent drug coverage through the government because my husband is a government employee and we will both have this coverage till we die, so all my meds would be covered as well if I decide to treat...So, from now until Oct 18th there is nothing I can do except wait for the results and pray they are in my favor...

Thank you both for caring!

Beth

[friole]

Hooray - well, at least they can do that right in Canada.  TAke it easy for a few days while you play the waiting game

[friole]

I sympathize - I feel the same way. I have deep veins and they are not visable - but a good tech can feel them easily.  Also, seems like all this bloodwork is bringing back old scarring. The techs without much experience want to use the same vein all the time because it is the most prominent.  Lately I try to direct them to the vein I want them to use - alternating between arms and the particular veins in each arm.  I mean, it strikes me odd that we try so hard not to use the same place in our subcutaneous injections, and here we have to use the same vein over and over again. Frankly, I am tired of wearing long sleeves for a week at a time (sometimes even more) because of brusing.

I may ask about the butterfly thing, but as long as they will alternate where I ask, it is going better.  AS far as not drawing so much blood, I think each test has certain requirements.  I know they did not draw enough once - I think for the first PCR or something - and I had to go again.

Who was it - Goofy down in another thread that they sucked 9 vials from before they realized they had the wrong orders? That was horrible - I'll bet he was bruised for weeks.


By the way, I went on LabCorp's web sight today and looked at their PCR tests.  My doc had the SuperQuant run at 4 weeks (sensative to 39 IU/ml).  I ran the info on the QuantaSure test which goes down to 2IU/mL for him and I am going to ask him to order that one tomorrow for my 12 week test.  Thanks to Jim and others who made me aware there was a more sensative test.
Kathy

[FlGuy]

So, what timeframes are you looking at now?  Do you at anytime get a commitment for them to treat you if results warrant?

I'm glad it went well for you. I think you will find, if you proceed thru TX, that the array of drugs are both your friends and enemies.  Must have been a relief when you learned that they would not just 'thump around' for a target.