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116701 tn?1210259164

Viral Load Numbers and Meanings?

What is a high viral load number that tells someone that they are into severe liver damage. Using me as an example I am 54yo male in reasonably good health, never drink and take pretty good care of myself. (my opinion only). My viral load 10 years ago was 330,000 and last September it was at 1,000,300. My enzyme counts over the last 10 years have stayed in normal range and I probably have them checked once or twice a year. I had a liver biopsy in 1996 and he said I was level 2 fibrosis. I see people in here with VL counts of 5,000,000. My doctor says the counts go up and down and not to worry about the variations and that was before I started treatment. What viral load count is too high and how quick will the damage occur?. I've had the hep C since 1977 (transfussion) and my health has been excellent through the years. Additionally, I had gone through 16 weeks of interferon in 1996 but it no affect on the virus. Now I am on Pegasus. The reason for my question is this is my results come in next Thursday and I don't have a drop in VL and treatments are ceased then how long can I expect before I start seeing severe heath problem? I know that is a loaded gun but would like input. I am geno 1A. Dale
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Avatar universal
you will get a bit more answers if you post in a more recent threads. I found these articles for a friend that might help you:
http://www.natap.org/2005/AASLD/aasld_Liver.htm
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Avatar universal
I sent in a question re. going from 900,000 to 4,000,000 in 2 months wondering if I was possibly needing any treatment and also while I was on the waiting list for the transplant for 3 yrs. shouldn't I have been getting treatment. I was never told what my Viral Ct. was or anything about it. Just how are you doing and everything seems to be ok so keep on functioning until we feel you should be on the priorty 1 list or whatever. My transplant happened in 9/15/99 and I am now taking .5 prograf 2xday. I was told to keep on taking that amt and have a bloodtest monthly and a viral ct. in 3 months. What can I do to possibly bring that ct.down if anything. They didn't tell me. One doctor who is Preventive Medicine did suggest Milk Thistle. Anyone heard of that? I was 65 when I rec. the transplant and they found cancer in the old liver. I feel achy and my body feels Older than 70 but I am in real estate so I do manage to get around and everyone says I don't look my age but I sure feel it.  Any suggestions? I know I need to exercise a lot and cut down on my fat intake.  I got the HIC with a blood transfusion in 73. Thanks.
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Avatar universal
My Viral load before starting treatment was 2,000,000. At week four  my Viral load is <600. I am now at week 8. I am having difficulty with the side effects and plan on quiting treatment at week 12. What is the odds of SVR if I quit.
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Avatar universal
Cin,
Sorry, but i had you beat.  My vl in August was 77,000,000.  Like you I had minimal damage (1/0).  I drank like a fish for years, but had no symptoms.  Dr recommended testing after elevated ALT readings in July.  Just had my 12 week PCR done and I am scheduled to see the Dr. Tuesday.  I called the nurse Friday and she told me no one was in office to review results and I would have to wait til Tuesday.  I told her if it wasn't working I wanted to know now because I am tired of feeling like **** if I am not responding.  She reviewed my chart and said I was at less than 10/undetectable so keep taking the shots.  She did not know the sensitivity level of the test.  I have never heard of a test that goes down to 10, but I guess I will know more Tuesday.  Oh, I am a 2b.

Sam
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Avatar universal
Wow, thats a 3 log drop you achieved at 4 weeks. Looks like your on your way to svr land! As far as suppliments go I'm taking 1000 mg of vitamin c a day and want to statrt taking whey and nac again.

Peace Dyce
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Avatar universal
No supplements...to be honest, everytime somebody says take this or take that, they come out later and say oh no, don't take that...so I figure it's better to stick w/ nuttin at all!

Also the vl issue is one reason I also figured why torture myself w/ tx, what are the odds of clearing w/my age and vl? But then the doc says I should tx just to get the vl down since it's wreaking havoc on my body...such a dilema...I have an apt. 3/14 to discuss it.
Cin
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Avatar universal
High viral load = no relationship to amount of damage as previously advised...however...and this is a big however...that doesn't mean your body isn't fighting a lot harder and therefore causing problems anyway.

I can safely say I have the highest vl in here but very minimal damage, I have many many symptoms...lots of infections, my gallbladder is out of whack, my stomach is messed up, the list goes on...It also goes w/o saying that the vl goes up and down, either way, mine could drop by half and it would still be very high since it was 62.7 million at last count...so,it doesn't effect the liver damage but it DOES matter to your body as a whole...I am living proof...unfortunately.
Cin
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Avatar universal
wow-that is an incredible viral count-i once had 23,000,000 and it scared me enuff to start the trx ..before i took my 1st shot vl had dropped to 6,000,000 at wk 4 it was 1280 and if they ever get their sh!t togethr i should be seeing a 12wk vl of O- i hope w/ all my heart..also hope things improve for yu..taking any supplemnts?
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Avatar universal
Naw, I don't know about that anemia over itching. I can at least get stuff done(though rather stressfully). It's stll there but it is subdued the last 2 nights. The 1st night I took the atarax at bedtime and got sleep. I held off during day succesfully but took some after work in evening. Don't know which was riba and which antihistime but got really unfocused and irritable. TDid get sleep after another at bedtime. Making progress I guess. Laughin too hard at yesterdays posts to itch too much last night. Sarna lotion is helping but really hate that first cold stuff on skin. Back is  so roughed up from this...amazing the devices I've created to apply it to my back.Now I know what they mean by necessity is the mother of ...
Hey dude you got what 2 more scheduled shots and then the extension. Whatever will you do w/yoursel?
Scratch and Sniff
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92903 tn?1309904711
Thanks, pal.

I liked this:

<i>
For example, patients who have chronic hepatitis C on a liver biopsy could be randomly assigned to smoke or not smoke, and then additional biopsies could be examined at a later time....  For ethical reasons, such a study cannot be done. (It could be done in animals, however.)
</i>

I picture all these Hugh Hefner rats sitting around in smoking jackets puffing away, LOL.

Hey Don. How are *you* doing? Any improvement in the itching dept? That one has to be a real b*tch. I was lying in bed with *some* itching last night, and I thought of you and reflected on just how bad itching could be. Yuck. And if you think about it (or in this case type about it) wham... it gets started up.

I think I'd take the anemia over the itching, if I had to choose.

Hope this finds you well, and itch free. If not try sticking some old Christmas tree branches down your backside.... it'll be heaven when you take them out.
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116701 tn?1210259164
Hi Debby:
Thank you for answering me so honestly. We've all taken tolls on our bodies through the years and I suppose we are all dealing with those consiqueces now. But we have today and today leads to tomorrow and remember Paul Newman is still eating ice cream and making girls nervous. I hope you really have a wonderful day and everyting goes your way. Dale
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Avatar universal
I drank like a fish for a long long time.  Used drugs a LOT (as often as possible in fact).  Smoked. Didn't really eat much food...For a LONG TIME I was a complete physical and mental WRECK. And sickly I enjoyed it. LOVED it.

Sobriety comes with a price.  Realizing the severe damage I've done to my body and having to stay straight enough to be mature enough to DEAL with the consequences instead of getting gakked and run away into dreamland oblivion and IGNORE them all.

So in other words - yes. I believe 100000% that my alcoholism and drug addictions had a GREAT deal to do with the progression of my liver disease to a "3".

Although viral load has no bearing on how your liver makes out...I do know I am the one responsible for blowing mine up.

Had I known earlier would it have mattered? Don't know. All I know is for today I am not drinking or using. I'll worry about tomorrow when it comes.  :)
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Avatar universal
LMAO D_ray, well his post is up a few from mine. You sure your not still nipping on that canadian mist? Good luck to ya.
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Avatar universal
Hey D_ray,
I have known I had this since 1993, and I am pretty sure I have been carrying it since around 73.  I drank like a fish, for a lady that is.  Just a pint or two a week of good ol canadian mist.  Never had high liver enzymes, did have a major episode (five weeks) after a two week elk hunt (major imbibment around the old campfire), have had two biopsies, and never graded at even a 1 (mild triaditis).  Quit drinking in 93, and was fine until the last two years and I have been out of range by one or two points on ALT for that time.  Viral load was around 600K in 96, now closer to three mil.  I hope I clear, but all evidence points to buying time even if I don't.  Thats my goal, knock the suckers on their proverbial A$$, and clearing would be the icing on the cake...

best of luck,
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Avatar universal
Don't know if this is what you're talking about. Also think I read something about an Italian study on smoking and liver damage.
http://www.mediscover.net/related.cfm?Hnid=609
http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=18104
little bear
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Avatar universal
OK, maybe I am a little spacy-forgot to put in that I did meet a drunk bear once.  Rotten apple orchard behind the house..... He was pretty looped...... can't remember the weather...
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Avatar universal
Thats ok, as i see you can tell i don't know the diff. these days between the weather or the whether.

Curious though whats with the eyes rolling and the twitching?

Didn't have anything to to with that drunk bear did it?
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92903 tn?1309904711
What the heck does the weather have to do with it? Whether good weather or bad, alcoholic bears are best avoided... at least 'till the hemoglobin and platelets ratchet up a tad.
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Avatar universal
goof says...On a related note, asked my doc about the occaisonal non-alcoholic bear on tx

Weather on tx or not, i think id stay away from them BEARS, wheather its a alcoholic or not... Just my thoughts though, could me wrong
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116701 tn?1210259164
Hey everyone thanks for the feedback. My doctor's office just called to see if I were feeling better (which I am since fever went away) and to tell me that my chest x-rays came back negative, my white count was at a good level (neuprophils), Enzyme counts were within normal ranges. It will be Monday before I get the big results back on VL and chest CT. But I figure any good news is good news. I did the tx previously and it had no affect so I am really hoping this Pegasus works. Thanks again, Dale
Helpful - 0
92903 tn?1309904711
I've been unsuccessful in finding data about the contribution of alcohol and smoking towards fibrosis progression. Common sense says these activities ain't the best idea, but has anyone seen anything more than anecdotal? I read here recently that alcohol consumption causes a multi-fold increase in damage progression. Is that supported by research?

Where does smoking fit in?    

Also, what about losing weight and restricting fat in the diet? What are the affects of excessive body fat on fibrosis?

Sometimes I wonder whether alcohol is treated a the big boogie-man, when other lifestyle factors deserve to share more of the attention. BTW, I'm a former imbiber, smoker, and over-eater - a self-promoter of equal opportunity fibrosis progression.

<hr>

On a related note, asked my doc about the occaisonal non-alcoholic bear on tx and he doesn't like the idea. Hepatologists in his practice just feel any risk at negatively affecting the immune response isn't worth it.
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Avatar universal
hay dare,i kan smill a cheep shoot ven i sea it.
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Avatar universal
AGREED VIRAL LOAD HAS NO EFFECT ON DAMAGE BUT DOES ON CHANCES FOR SVR. I HAD STAGE 2 IN 1996 AND DECIDED NOT TO TREAT YET BUT HAVE STAGE 3 NOW SO I AM ON TX. I AM GLAD I WAITED AS THE DRUGS EVEN NOW ARE MUCH BETTER THAN THEN. IF I WAS 1 OR 2 I WOULD WAIT TILL BETTER DRUGS COME ALONG BUT THAT IS YOUR DECISION. ANYWAY GOOD LUCK.
BOBBY
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Avatar universal
HCA
I wholeheartedly agree with the answers you have already been given.
Presumably you will be having a twelve week test.The Doc. will be wanting to see a 2 log drop in Viral Load.
If you started at 1000,000 then 10,000 or less is needed.
From the data you have given you will need another biopsy if the treatment doesn't work.
Don't see why you are pessimistic.
There aren't any real alternative treatments at this time (unless you are into herbs and stuff-I'm not)
We are on the threshold of a treatment revolution-in a couple of years new drugs will be hitting the market.
Be positive,many of us are getting cured with interferon.
Good luck-post your result on this board when you get it.
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