Vitamin B12 Shots

[jmjm530]

Anyone taking vitamin B12 shots on tx and did they have any positive/negative effects? Any sides including stomach discomfort/reflux?

As my Hgb is a bit low, thought I'd try a shot every other week to see if I can get an energy boost and also to facilitate my weekly Procrit injections. Currently my only vitamin intake is Centrum Silver.

My Vitamin B12 serum is 293, within normal but on the low side.
Normal (200-1100).

I'm thinking shots rather than oral supplements because all the PPI's (Nexium) and antacids I'm taking may be inhibiting oral absorption. Also, it's a quicker fix.

-- Jim

[v eggie dip]

I have no idea what the B-12 would do to you on tx but I can tell you what it did to my husband...

He had bi lateral knee replacement surgery in both knees last January...His hemoglobin went from 140 to 60 overnight due to the great amout of blood loss during surgery...They gave him a "booster" B-12 and he had an allergic reation to it...Most people can do B-12 fine, but in his case he didn't so be careful...

[jmjm530]

Sorry about what happened to your husband. Could you be more specific to what kind of allergic reaction he had. My NP tells me there are no bad sides but based on your husband's experience, it doesn't hold through for anyone. On the other hand, my mother used to take monthly b12 shots and she has a bad reaction to almost drug but not the b12 shots.

[v eggie dip]

he immediately got a fever, his BP went sky high and he tried to itch his knees...And the weird thing about it too, his hemoglobin didn't start to go up...It took almost a week before they noticed a difference and it was very slight...They gave him one shot of iron (probably the Canadian equivelant to Procrit) and his hemoglobin didn't reach pre surgery level for 2 months!..Now,this was a rare case, the staff was amazed that he had such a reaction...I only told you becasue I know you are having a real hard time now and you don't need anymore set backs...

[GoofyDad]

I was tested for B12 last week. I don't have the results yet because the lab has apparent trouble with big day-glow stickers that say FAX PATIENT. I can see how that might be tricky for them, so I always call and gently explain that I'd like a copy, and yes my doctor did approve, that's why your copy has a big day glow sticker that says FAX PATIENT. Anyway, I spoke briefly with my nurse, but she didn't mention it, so I guess I'm reasonably normal, other indicators not withstanding ;-) The next time I talk to my nurse I'll pick her brain a little about when they react to B12 and post anything that might seem interesting.

I switched from Centrum Silver to an iron free mens multi from the Vitamin Shoppe. I think it may be a better pill based on the folowing analysis:

It's bigger
It costs more
It makes my pee yellow all day, no matter how much water I drink

[jmjm530]

The problem with your daglo sticker is the word "patient". I believe the customer service departments at most labs take a course in ignoring that word. Try same sticker next time without that word and see what happens. :)

Based on your recommendation (bigger, more expensive, pee's more yellow) I don't know what I was thinking when I bought Centrum Silver. Not to mention that the Vitamin Shoppe has such a catchy name and the store's are so well lit. Actually, I usually use the Solgar brand recommended by my brother. But in this case I just picked it off a list of vitamins recommended by a heptologist I respect. Plus the fact, that the "Silver" reminds me of how ancient I've become, especially lately. :)


-- Jim

[GreatBird]

That's the B vitamins. ;)

[GoofyDad]

Lest you think I fell short in my due dilligence, did I mention the cute sales girl?

She: Can I help you?
Goofy: I need a multi without iron.
She: Steps close. Here this is what you want.
Goofy: Are you sure?
She: Definitely.
Goofy: Uh OK.



Goofy, and now happily peeing yellow.

[Pirategold]

When I was first diagnosed in 1993, I began seeing an "alternative" doctor who was into homeopathy, cell salts, muscle testing, thyroid treatment, chelation therapy, coffee enemas, B-12 shots and such.  

I, of course, was not under the stress of treatment, but what I found was that I felt stronger, more energetic and just generally in better health.  The shot allows the body to get the benefits immediately bypassing the digestive system which in many of our cases is not functioning well. That was the first time in my life I had ever stuck a needle into myself.  It became fairly easy, as the needle was quite tiny and it was to be put into my thighs.  I never had a reaction of any sort, and I honestly can't imagine why one would have a reaction to Vitamin B12 shots.

A book that has given me much guidance and comfort in health and nutrition issues is "Respcription for Nutritional Healing" by James F. Balch, M.D. and Phyllis A. Balch, C.N.C.  It covers everyday issues, but sometimes I forget to consult it -- to my detriment.

Hope this helps.


Pirategold

[friole]

Boy Jim, are you ever right.  Those labs don't like that fax patient stuff.  I was about to ask Goofy to send me some of those dayglo stickers, but if they don't work....

I have been trying to get the CBC portion of my labs since Thursday.  They wrote (in pen - no dayglo stickers) fax patient on the orders.  The girl who processed the orders said they won't fax, but they will mail.  No problem for me.  So then I call them Thursday afternoon to see if I can just pick them up and the girl tells me, oh they are in but you have to get them from your doctor - there is nothing in the computer about patient. She pulls the orders and reads off "fax Labcorp" No, I say, patient.

Friday I just stop by the doc's office to pick them up.  The girl pulls them and they are totally blank with some kind of "pending" notice on them.  She calls the lab and they said because the values are low they have a pathologist look at them.  Duh, the values are always low.  I could be dead before they decide to send them to my doc.  Monday afternoon and the doc still does not have them.  THink I will get them done at the hemotologist's office from now on where i can wait on the results.

[sunspot]

I had to jump through hoops to get mine.
Fax it to me................no can do
I'll stop by the office.....you have to sign a release
Signed release..............May I see some ID
Here you are (ID)...........That will be 1$ a page

Pis@#ed me off, big time. Dana

[v eggie dip]

are you serious, they actually charge you for test copies?

[sunspot]

I'm serious. I think the lady felt bad about doing it becuase she now slips them to me with a wink and shoo's me off.
P.S. My GI is a Rat Bas#%rd.

Dana

[v eggie dip]

the more stories I hear about the money hungy, grubbing, pond sucking scum's in the states that put the all mighty dollar first when it comes to insurance and labs and meds, the more I think I may have mis judged the sub standards of O'Canada!  I pay for nothing, I mean nothing!  But, the flip side of that is I get a young punk I call Dougie Howser (term of endearment of course NOT...lol)as my PCP and I can't do a dang thing without his signature...


wow, that was a mouthful for a dip !!

[jmjm530]

I asked the nurse today if I could do the injections myself. She said "have you ever done an intramuscular shot"? So anyway, we decided she'd do the first shot and I'd watch. Glad to hear it was easy. She intimated the the needle was long because it had to go into the muscle-- something that I don't have very much of right now.

Anyway, the stuff is dirt cheap. Turns out my insurance doesn't cover it but at $12 for a three-month supply (2 shots per month) I'm not complaining.

-- Jim

[v eggie dip]

did you ask the nurse about allergic reactions?

[jmjm530]

From the little research I've done and the two doctors I've spoken to, haven't heard anything about side effects or allergic reactions. I'm sure there's the possiblity but I'll probably take one shot and see. If I screw up it won't be the first time. :)

-- Jim

[v eggie dip]

I'm sure you will be fine, hope I didn't alarm you...Thought it was worth mentioning...

Best of luck to ya!

[jmjm530]

Did the math wrong. It comes out to forty cents for a 1 ML injection.

[GoofyDad]

Just got the lab results. Feratin (sp?) is 2089, where normal range is 30-400. Yowhza. The nurse doesn't think its a big deal, but she's gonna talk to the Docs. She things it's the interferon and says since the ALT/AST numbers are looking so good, don't sweat it. Anyone else have spiking Feratin on tx?

On the upcoming VL test where they've odered the Bayer bDNA, she says "So if you want the PCR why don't you check that that box too?" Like what'z wrong w' you? Check the friggin' box. God I love those guys.

[snook_man]

only sx's it states in my wifes drug guide, are as foolows:

Diarrhea
itching, swelling of the body, urticaria.
hypersensitivity reactions including, Anaphylaxis.
hypokalemia
peripheral vascular thrombosis

These sx's also occured with placebo, so go figure?

B12 is good stuff. It is stored in the liver, and is a necessary coenzyme for many metabolic processes, including fat and carbohydrate metabolism and protein synthesis.
MOST IMPORTANT, required for the formation of RBC's.

[Pirategold]

A couple of more natural sleep aids are:
Important -
Calcium - 1,500-2000 mg daily in divided doses, after meals and at bedtime (has a calming effect.  Use lactate or chelate -- if allergice to dairy do not use lactate) AND Magnesium - 1000 mg daily (needed to balance with calcium and relax the muscles)
     -or-
Melatonin (recommended by my pharmist) Start with 1.5 mg daily taken 2 hours or less before bedtime, up to 5 mg as needed.

Helpful -
Vit B complex plus extra pantothenic acid (B5) 50 mg daily and Inositol - 10 mg daily at bedtime - enhances REM sleep.

From Prescription for Nutritional Healing Balch and Balch -- a great reference book to have on hand.

[cougareyes]

Hey I'm not sure where the concern point is for ferritin. Yet it is something you will have to address to continue to ensure yourself svr. What level of iron stores did you have on your biopsy? You are early enough in treatment to have caught it and get it corrected.
I'm sure I don't have to tell you about things that are common sense, like no iron supplements or any multis w/ iron. Careful of high iron fortified cereals and other high iron food, you'll have to do the research. No iron cookware, and you can tell your wife you can't even iron your own clothes.
I've read about no vitamin c supplementation, I believe vitamin c must have something to do with iron absorbtion.
The common treatment for high ferritin levels is phelbotomy(sp?), bloodletting as in vampires. As far as I know they won't do this while you're on treatment. I know I haven't helped much except that just relax you have caught it in time.   Peace

[Forseegood]

Vitamin Shoppe's got my endorsement! Take it from one who has tried every major brand and experimented with dosages, etc.,the general brands vs. name brands, whatever. But if you ever take oils, fish and fatty acid stuff (my doc said great on tx) Spectrum is the way to go. They are the oil people. Just my take. Glad you seem to be in high spirits. Relatively speaking.

[HepCinLA]

Okay I'll prob. get grief for this but..

my nurse said that iron intake was only a problem for people w/ more advanced liver disease (b/c they usually have a higher iron level than others).  So I don't really pay attention to iron intake.

Accordingly for energy I take a supplement that has some iron in it but more importantly has 125% daily intake of vitamin B12, 235% of B2, 167% of B1 and 100% of B6.  I credit this supplement for keeping my energy level is pretty close to what it was prior to treatment.

[stc1993]

I took B12 shots while on tx with no sx.  I couldn't tell any difference if it did any good or not.

[carpedi]

Jim - I asked about taking b vitamins on tx, (with b12 in mind since a shot of that magic elixir has done wonders for me on occasion.), and my doc said not a good idea because they are stored in the liver. That's the advice I was given, but I have to say, I'm dubious and I think, since the stuff works so well, I'd be inclined to use it anyway, but you might just want to check out with your doc the "storage" issue.

[avidreader]

I was thinking about you today. I've been having  trouble sleeping and my doc suggested that I try Ambien since it was beginning to intefere with my ability to work. He gave me a scrip for 30 and off I went to fill it. Well, it turns out that my prescription coverage only allows 14 pills every 90 days and for that I have to pay a my standard $30 co-pay. I remember when you were talking about coming back to the States to treat. There are days when I seriously consider going to live with my brother (Denmark) or my sister (England) ;-)

On another note entirely, I was glad to read that your biopsy went so smoothly. Hope you get the results you want!

Tracy

[GoofyDad]

Sorry to repost, but I figured I could use a catchier tag to draw some attention. I'm getting my panties all in a bunch about my sky-rocketing ferritin. Any comments most welcome while I wait to hear from my Docs.

PS Avidreader. I like the ambien for when I'm stuck in bed and can't sleep. If I anticipate trouble, I prefer benadryl, but I need to plan ahead. I like to take them about 10 hours before I'm going to get up.

[avidreader]

Yeah, I've been using benadryl for years as my sleep aid on the cheap, but lately I've been in the wide awake at 2:00 a.m. mode, and if I take Benadryl I'll be on a coma the next day (not that my co-workers would notice much difference--but I pity the other drivers on the road while I try to make my way to work.) I'm thinking that the occasional Ambien at a reasonable bedtime hours might help jig my sleeping patterns back to something resembling normalcy--whatever that is! I had an ulterior motive--I'm taking a short but whirlwind trip to England and Paris at the beginning of November, and I'm determined to sleep on the plane both ways and not let my recently acquired bizarre sleeping habit intefere with my trip.

By the by--love your posts. You bring a nice blast of 'lighten up' to the table.

[GoofyDad]

As it tuns out just this morning we were discussing that my biopsy appears to not have had iron stains. I did have an iron panel done back in December I think. Don't have the results of that handy, but my treating Docs do.

I'm not taking any supplemental iron, but I'm going to be more careful about avoiding iron and Vit C for now. When I did autologous (sp?) blood donations for hip surgery in 98, I had to take iron pills. Lots of them. Made my dingle berries plunk like fishing weights (I'm serious). The nurse told me to be sure to take the iron with OJ or it would just be wasted. No mas OJ for Goofy :(

Here's a note to any one pre-tx. Get your biopsy done at a big hospital. Mine was done at a community hospital. Pretty big, several hundred beds and 3-4 OR's. But after having the biosy re-read by the medical director at what I believe is a first-class transplant center, it appears that (a) The sample was nothing to write home about (b) slides/stains are missing (c) the pathologist misread the biopsy.

[GoofyDad]

To those who've commented on my humor. Thanks. I like to have some fun, and I'm happy when I can brighted a few moments here and there for others along the way.

I know it's not for everyone; this is serious business and people deal with it differently. Me, I hope to be having fun till they put me down, but let's not put that to the test too soon. (Actually, I'm working on some thoughts for after the fact, but again, that can wait!)

Like NYgirl said about her faith, if it's not for you, hopefully you can scroll on past without taking offense. Put me in the corner when I need it.

Goofy (aka Iron Man)

[nyhepc]

i too enjoy your humor. hey, whatever it takes to bring on a smile...i'm all for it. my ferritan level is elevated (1800 or so).  but the one to worry about is the TIBC, total iron binding capacity. an elevation there would indicate a problem...mines normal

[tina-b]

That ferritin level is way out of whack. Almost toxic!  Did your doc do a transferrin saturation? Have you ever been tested for hemochromotosis? The hemochromotosis test is called HFE gene type.

This can be very confusing. You can be anemic and still have problems with to high ferritin.

I learned a long time ago, as I am sure many here have, that when someone in the medical professions says to you "It's nothing to worry about" ya better start diggin for answers.

It is true these meds can cause the ferritin to jump up but there can be underlying problems that cause it and the docs/nures just lay a blanket of "its the meds" on it and don't look further. My mans first doc (at a large teaching hospital) refused to check for HH prior to first tx for hepc and forgot to get iron stains on bx.

Most docs won't tx HH while on hepc tx. My husbands ferritin was something like 2090 after first round of tx 24/24 peg/riba. Took 10 draws to get it to normal.

To everyone else.......we are  still waiting on the labs to see if it is really back again. I suspect it is. His alt/ast, ferritin and transferrin saturation are climbing again. We'll know in 2 weeks.

[sunspot]

Have your doc to write a script for 10mg pills and then break them in half for the normal 5mg dose. That's what I do.

Dana

[NYgirl]

you are ALWAYS ok to me.  I have no need to ever think you need to go to the corner

You brighten my days incredibly.  :)  I mean that.

Debby

[azgrl]

"Lots of them. Made my dingle berries plunk like fishing weights (I'm serious)"

I needed this unexpected laugh this morning....now if you'll excuse me I need to wipe the coffee I spewed all over my computer off.  The sad thing about this comment was the "plunk" sound I heard in my mind as I read......

Deb

[NYgirl]

LOL seems I'm not the only coffee spewer here on this board by the name of Deb - I had that problem yesterday and I think my job is starting to get grossed out by the condition of my monitor here....

You got to stop hurting us goofy before I get fired!  ;-)

Debby

[ann_h]

Heya!

I have been taking b 12 shots regularly for years now,sometimes monthly,sometimes not.One of the Side Effects of B12 shots is you feel it most in your stomach.It is just the way it is.I should say for me I guess to keep the energy open but the Doc did tell me that.In fact I got an IV of B12 at the alternative Dr and I was seriously nauseous.

Ok,now as you might know,I am beginning TX for th 2nd time pretty soon,may wait until after the first of the year but I will most definately keep doing the B12 shot as well as the Depo-Medrol for my aches and pains from arthritis.I hope to hear back from you on how you are doing and if you have had a B12 on TX yet.I would not think B12 would do anything since it is a vitamin.Ok,my long 2 cents.Hope all is well.

[jmjm530]

Yesterday I got my 3-month vial of B12 and so far I'm just looking at it. :) The fact that b12 is stored in the liver is a concern I may look into as well as any propensity to upset my stomach which already is upset. The other thing -- more superstitious than logical maybe -- is that I'm doing pretty well virus wise (clear since week 6) so I'm somewhat reticent to do anything that might rock the boat. (Don't want the shot giving any energy to any possibly remaining virus. :)) I'll be getting my new Hgb results soon and probably decide about the b12 when I decide. If not the shot, maybe I'll stop by the Vitamin Shop as recommended and try a little extra B12 orally. Or not. Thanks for all the input.

-- Jim

[GoofyDad]

In addition to my through the roof ferritin, I showed b12 sightly out of range to the high side. Unscientific, but the 3 weeks I've been on the vitamin shoppe multi seems like a reasonable explanation to me. Like I said, it's timed release and keeps that pee yellow sun-up to sun down. That's also my reminder that I took my morning riba. Any doubts, I just take a pee. Yellow pee - there's riba in me :)

[jmjm530]

OK. I'll bite the yellow pee. Exactly which multi are you taking? I assume it's w/o iron. Do you know how much Folic acid and b12 are in it. If I'm gonna take vitamins, mine as well take the expensive ones from the fancy store although Centrum Silver seems to fit me so well on tx as I feel like I'm around 100. :)

-- Jim

[jmjm530]

BTW per your question and my own ponderings, I asked my NP the other day about supplemental oxygen as an aid for anemia. She said something about blood 02 levels being a little different from anemia but it didn't even look like she was convincing herself. I was probably a first-time caller on that question. :) I know when I was in the ER they stuck an oxygen tube up my nose and it kind of made me feel better. Whatever happened to those 02 bars a while back. Oh, yeah. STARBUCKS.

--Jim

[GoofyDad]

My med team seems unconcerned about the high ferritin. Iron studies from 12/04 were normal. One theory is the rapid die off of RBCs released the excess iron/ferritin. Also, liver inflamation (inflammation) was referenced as a possible culprtit. The nurse read to me from riba literature that says the riba can cause falsely high ferritin readings. The lead doc told the nurse it's a meaningless number in my case.

I'll re-read your comments and may ask for additional tests as indicated. Meanwhile, I'm not going to let myself get too worked up about it. I trust these folks, and they don't seem to be prone to cutting corners.

If you think I'm shoving my head in the sand, please let me know.

[cougareyes]

Jim I feel the same way, whether it's superstition or not; I don't like rocking the boat either. Yet B12 is important for your hgb.

Goof, remember to be careful of the C in your vitamins also.

Peace

[GoofyDad]

The cute gal smiled and said she wanted me on the *MEN'S* formula. Gulp. Uh, OK. If you think I might be needing it :-O

I'm at work & I don't hae the bottle handy. It's iron free. Folic Acid m/b 400mg? I dunno, I'm guessing. You could find it online.

I joked about it being expensive, but it was on sale for September: a big old bottle for about 7 bucks. Normally about $12.

[GoofyDad]

RE: Oxygen. I got on that thought cause I saw a big household medical delivery van in town. IV's, Hospital Beds, and O2. People say it helps hangovers for chisakes. I'm no scientist, but I was sitting feeling just like I had in the mountains in Oxaca. Low on OXYGEN.

I get out of breath thinking about that what I used to do till I was out of breath!

[Pirategold]

I'm a bit confused about the concern expressed about B12 being stored in the liver.  Isn't the main storage issue in the liver iron?  

Read about B12 here:  http://www.dietpower.com/help/diet/vitamin_b12.htm
http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/hcy

Jim, when I first was diagnosed with Hep C my nutritional doctor had me injecting B12 daily.  The only thing I suffered was brusing at the site of the injection.  I had more energy and began to feel great.  I now use HI-B12/Foliplex  (sublingual) tablet - one per day.  

Check out the above websites and you can probably find more, but B12 is critical in holding down the homocysteine levels in your body.

I honestly cannot imagine that B12 would EVER be bad for anyone, especially us.  The reason for the injection is because it goes directly into our system bypassing a digestive tract problem.

Unless you find good, solid evidence NOT to do the injections, I would encourage you to.  I can't imagine something as valuable as B12 to one's health would ENCOURAGE the Hep C virus.

Just my thoughts.

Pirategold

[sunspot]

I've tried tokeing on my welding O2. No improvment.
I also got an inhalor rx from a lung doc. Ditto.
I'm on my fourth shot of Procrit. I can now stand up without grabbing something to hold on to. I get a CBC tomorrow and I'll post my stats next week.
Sign me "An Olde Weezer in Alabama".