Weight Loss that just might Stick

[jmjm530]

Been playing around with diet lately both to reduce cholesterol and waist line. A new study shows that a variation on the low-carb diet  just might be the right combo. Unlike traditional low carb diets which the authors say usually fail, this diet appears to allow ample carbs for breakfast and then switches to a low-carb regimen for the rest of the day. Personally, I'm thinking of modifying my diet in a similar manner. BTW this isn't an entirely new concept -- little is in nutrition -- and it has some similarties to a book I read a number of years ago called "The Carbohydrate Addict's diet" that basically allowed one "reward" meal per day with low-carb eating the rest of the day. Here, the "reward" meal appears to be breakfast, but it's possible the same results would have come out if the reward meal was luch or dinner.

http://www.nbc10.com/health/16641842/detail.html

Eating a big breakfast with lots of carbs and protein may help people lose weight and keep it off, researchers said.

The plan includes a low-carb, low-calorie diet for the rest of the day.

Dr. Daniela Jakubowicz of the Hospital de Clinicas in Venezuela said an overall low-carb diet may cause a quick weight loss, but pounds come back quickly, as well. Only 5 percent of carb-restrictive diets are successful after two years, she said.

Jakubowicz and a team at Virginia Commonwealth University put 94 obese, inactive women on low-fat, low-calorie diets, but they differed in how carbs were distributed.

For four months, researchers looked for weight loss. The strict low-carb diet caused an average weight loss of 28 pounds; the big-breakfast version cut 23 pounds.

However, after eight months, the strict dieters had regained 18 pounds. The big-breakfast eaters continued to drop weight, losing another 16.5 pounds.

All told, those on the new diet lost more than 21 percent of their body weight, compared with just 4.5 percent for the low-carb group.

Women who ate a big breakfast reported feeling less hungry, especially before lunch and had fewer cravings for carbs than the other women did.

Jakubowicz said the big-breakfast diet works because it controls appetite and cravings for sweets and starches. It also is healthier, she said, because it allows people to eat more fruit and therefore get enough fiber and vitamins.

The big-breakfast diet includes 1,240 calories a day.

[jmjm530]

Good to see your name here, it's been awhile! How is it going, sounds like your appetite is back at least :) This thread is getting to be like a Class of '95 Reunion with you and Cando stopping by

Be well,

-- Jim!

[dyce]

I meant meat not means.LOL Been doin alotta grillin this year so far

[dyce]

Wha up dudes. Still mear and tators for this cat.

[jmjm530]

Glad to see you're back to normal again! That treatment was really something, wasn't it!

Be well,

-- Jim

[can-do-man]

Cando still doing, Glad to see you and Jenna still together i was afraid she might have blew away by now..... That diet seems ok, after i have a big breakfast i kinda take it easy, a couple big macs and large fries for lunch. Then a nice steak and tators for supper with a piece of pie and icecream. Only drink water though cause i don't want the extra calories. :)

canman

[dointime]

Mre- you really made me laugh because you described so exactly how hard it can feel to get going.  It is really encouraging that you felt that way pre-tx and you still managed to do it.  Plus how much better you felt for it.  Like you, I used to always stay slim without much effort, so if it worked for you then I guess I'm in with a chance.    

I've been doing the medical rounds this month getting tested and scanned ad nauseum.  The endo is the last one in a few weeks.  Hopefully it will turn out that nothing bad is found and then I'll be able to forget the docs and turn my full attention to the nutriition / exercise route that seems to have done so well by you.

This is a really good post.  Thanks to all,

dointime      

[jmjm530]

Tall: Sardines smell great too me!
------------------------------------------------
You know, "Jenna" will be at the dry cleaners all next week :)

[Tallahassee]

Sardines smell great too me!

I always have an emergency can in my desk ... when I work late and all of my "sandine intolerant" co-workers are gone -- I have "a sardine party"! :-)

[jmjm530]

Meki previously:
So maybe the key isn't running or biking --- but maybe doing something you love..
----------------------
But I love biking! Glad you're having fun and getting more energy out of the badminton. Haven't played for some time but it's a great game.

Trish,

Fortunatly, in your case, with all the new features MH has added, "instant smell" isn't one of them, although I'm sure one day it will be offered on the net. Anyway, "Jenna" never complains, and that's all that matters :)

[Trish77]

The key is it doesn't matter in what form you expend the energy, it's that you do....when you can afford to do it.  It gets those endorphins swimming  (which I fondly call "dolphins") and is a mental boost in your brain.  

So get them dolphins swimming. :)

Yo...Jim ... my grandfather ate sardines the way you do...didn't care for that or the smelt habit in our house, considering every year at smelt fishing time it meant smelt eggs on *everything* ...on the other hand, I like raw mussels on the half shell, steamed mussels and all sorts of seafood.....just not those darn sardines.

[meki]

I can say this much...

I'm trying to eat more veggies and eat less breads --- but all during treatment all I could eat was pretzels and crackers... and chips... That's it.. nothing else tasted good - nothing else stayed down...

And I gained weight on TX.

I have - however just recently - starting playing badminton --- outside our house - about an hour every sunshiney day --- and it seem to be giving me some extra energy..

And I LOVE IT...

So maybe the key isn't running or biking --- but maybe doing something you love...

Maybe walking the tide pools... or visiting a museum and walking everywhere... Park the car a few extra spaces back from the store....  walk in the forrest... Go fishing... Play a game with the family --- Go to Wal-Mart and pick up a cheap horse shoe set... or a cheap badminton set (that is what I did) --- and go play with the family... Get a yo-yo and practice it..

Now that we've been playing badminton - I'm looking at racquetball... *GRIN*... not right now - but in the future.

So --- if I --- the laziest bum I know --- can get up off the couch --- YOU CAN TOO!

LOL!

Now -- I if I could just figure out how to make myself lose 20 pounds in a week - I'd be in heaven.

Hugs

Meki

[jmjm530]

Thanks! Nothing like a success story to motivate!

[mremeet]

"(1) Was the "stubborn weight gain" post treatment distributed as  it might have if you never treated, or did a greater proportion of it go on as belly fat? I ask this because I've gained weight before treatment, but it seemed to be more evenly distributed."

No, it was not distributed the same, it was definitely this weird intra-abdomimal fat thing. I've never experienced anything like it before. And I've never experienced the insatiable, consume mass quantities "Im pregnant" type cravings for this and that after going off the drugs. The intra-ab belly fat was definitely something I've never experienced before; I've always been a fundamentally thin person (at 6'2" I've ranged between about 130-185lbs my whole adult life). And always been thin even if I lay around and eat pizza and drink beer. And anytime in the past when I stop drinking beer and especially if I ride bikes simultaneously, I would always lose an easy 5 lbs (at least) usually dropping from 185 to about 177lbs or so. Not this time though, I was 207 and rigidly stopped beer drinking and rode my bike like a fanatic almost every day - didn't lose a friggin' pound! The only thing that turned the tide (seemingly permanently now) was low carb boot camp.

"(2) Could you give us your daily weight-loss regimen in more detail, including a sample day's meal with ammounts."

First I would not starve myself. Not good at doing that, so I would eat whatever I wanted when I wanted as long as it was low carb. But before this, usually I'd eat a large bowl of cereal in the morning (sometimes two or even three bowls). I cut back to a small to medium sized bowl of oatmeal with only a little bit of honey (and some splenda). Lunch would always involve whatever I could find low carb at a restaurant, usually chicken or fish. I ate at a barbeque restaurant frequently and would order their bbq platter with no bread and with cole slaw. I'd eat the lean bbq meat, eat the slaw and have either a water or an iced tea with no sugar. After work I'd go to an authentic asian restaurant and order their low carb specials (yes they had them). Spring rolls and baked chicken with the skin pulled off. Sometimes after work I'd walk past the pizza place and after a 5 mile hike (one way) with the 30lb pack (actually it was closer to 35lb) I'd really eye up that pizza...and once in a while I'd indulge in one slice of thin crust cheese, sopping up the oil/grease on top with napkins before eating. In the evenings I'd have some beef jerky around and eat that. I guess you couldn't do that with the salt, but it is low carb high protein and tastes great too ( to me at least). I also bought several "value pack" boxes of "pure protein" bars at Target (20g protein per bar with no sugar). I'd eat those with a cup of skim milk (yes there's sugar in milk, but not that much) to take the edge off, especially if I was having a sweet craving. They're actually not that bad either, fairly tolerable. I also bought quality protein powder and made lots of shakes with skim milk, frozen strawberries and a few egg whites (occasionally with a 'nanner thrown in). On weekends I'd go for long hikes on the beach and then eat sashimi at the sushi bar. Once in a while would have a hamburger without the bread and maybe some more jerky and/or a protein bar. Hike up and down some more hills...hike some more and then go home, take a shower and then go for a leisurely 2 mile walk to the chinese restaurant for their awesome ultra low carb asian chicken salad with mandarin oranges (and water).

Anyway, that's about it, nothing fancy really. Not exactly gourmet, but I was committed. I wanted to do something about that intolerable, persistent flab so I stuck to it. And man when I did, all of a sudden the fat just flew off. And it's stayed off, incredibly, even after reverting to my rice eatin' ways (currently in japan). Heck, I just had a bowl of stir fried rice with two beers and a big crepe filled with custard yesterday. Today a BLT with two big slabs of white bread and another big bowl of rice (cereal this morning). Still hangin' in there, not even tryin' now. My clock really seems to be reset, just hope it sticks. I think you can do it too, might just take a little time and maybe with a slightly different angle...you might have to strap that pack on though dude, gonna have to pay your dues one way or another. ;-)

[jmjm530]

Mre,

Thanks for stopping by to share your post treatment experiences with exercise and diet. Very encouraging! It does seem that some sort of low carb diet (plus ample exercise) is a reasonable solution to this whole metabolic alteration post treatment. The fact you were able to back off the diet post at a certain point after the "resetting the clock" is even more encouraging because I don't think I could stick to a high protein/low carb diet indefinitely, although the diet I posted does allow for a carb meal.

Two questions: (1) Was the "stubborn weight gain" post treatment distributed as  it might have if you never treated, or did a greater proportion of it go on as belly fat? I ask this because I've gained weight before treatment, but it seemed to be more evenly distributed; and (2) Could you give us your daily weight-loss regimen in more detail, including a sample day's meal with ammounts. Thanks.

Doin,

First, I detected no "sour grapes" in your first post, just an honest question.
Yes, I could have done the same diet and exercise program pre-treatment, so I'm just assumng I could have post treatment even without an SVR. I'm grateful I treated because as a pre-tx stage 3, treatment hopefully stopped (and probably regressed) liver damage. That said, I "feel" no better after treating, energy or any other-way wise.

As to your case, I don't think it necessary to do the whole enchilada, not do I think I'll be hiking around with a 30 pound pack or doing pull-ups all day at the beach :) If your doctor gives you the green light for a high protein/low carb diet (such as "Zone" or "South Beach" mentioned earlier, then you might try it and exercise to tolerance. You might even find that additional exercise will give you more energy. Hope you feel better soon!

FL, Trust me, the Turbo salad was deeelicious, although it would have made me puke if I were still on treatment, where I couldn't look at either fish or a vegetable because of treatment- induced anorexia and taste alteration. I'm guessing I'm under 2000 calories per day and close to the the 40-40-30 Zone Diet breakdown, but probably still more on the fat and carbs but may cut down more on the carbs temporarily at least.

Sardine Haters :)

I've eaten since childhood, well before I even knew what a "diet" was. Happen to like them, and they happen to go well with scrambled eggs (whole or whites) and salad. Make a great sandwhich with tomatoa nd onion, although got to be careful where the tomatoes come from these days.

[mremeet]

I know it wasn't sour grapes at all, don't be silly. To answer your questions: Could I achieve the level of activity I describe above if I had my pre-tx fatigue levels? (which I had plenty of) The answer to that question is yes. By that I mean the following: before getting rid of the virus, I had the classic chronic fatigue commonly associated with a chronic HCV infection (in many people, but not all). At times the fatigue was crushing, other times merely grinding. And there were times when I felt basically ok, but that was generally rare. For 24 years there was almost always some sense of malaise of one type or another present. But all along there was one thing above all else that could eliminate fatigue, at least temporarily - and that one thing was vigorous aerobic exercise. Proper diet and avoidance of vice (i.e. smoking and drinking) were also important players of course. But nothing made me feel more normal and more energized than exercise, especially when combined with good health habits.

Now, I know what you're thinking - "yeah it's easy you saying that, but I'm so tired I can't get off the couch much less ride a mountain bike or go running of all things!" And I don't want to sound like one of those annoying exercise freaks with a cheery smile irritating the living f*ck out of everyone with advice no one wants...but honestly, that's what it comes down to. I was always tired and spaced out - fatiguuueeeddd with a capital F. And sometimes putting one foot in front of another, especially trying to get started with vigorous exercise, was just seemingly too much to even contemplate, much less actually do. But I knew I had to do it, as much as I thought I couldn't. I would rather die than sit there feeling like I used to all the time - so I simply forced myself at first. I forced one foot in front of another, I forced myself onto the bike, and I forced my out of shape and tired body into exercising. You'd be surprised what you can do once you set your mind to it, once you really commit. Once you really and truly decide you've had enough. And the thing is, is that exercise is self perpetuating. The more you do, the more you want to do - especially once you get over the initial hump and pain of being out of shape. Whatever you do, don't think that the initial pain, misery and drudgery of just starting out with exercise will last. It's perfectly normal to think in the beginning "this ***** royal a$$!" and to be absolutely wiped out by it all (especially whilst beset with the chronic fatigue you're obviously experiencing). The misery you'll feel initially will pass, and it will be replaced with a joyful zest. Don't be discouraged and always think it will feel like that, it gets much much better as time goes by (as long as you consistently stick to it and keep the intensity high).

Anyway, exercise is the key, especially vigorous exercise - it really really is. Although, unfortunately with my chronic fatigue, even when I was in great shape, the fatigue remained. It was more under control and subdued, but it was ever present. The exercise did not do away with it altogether. But I will say this, the fatigue would vanish during the exercise and for hours afterward it would disappear. During that special timeframe I always felt on top of the world, refreshed and reborn. It was my only real refuge from that miserable, crushing fatigue. It was like a ticket to a "theatre of normalcy". And although I still had fatigue at other times, it was much less severe than it would have been had I not been exercising at all. I always thought of myself as being a battery operated device when I had HCV. And my batteries needed constant recharging in order for me to function properly. And the way they got recharged was/is by vigorous aerobic exercise. The longer I went without exercise, the more run down I'd start feeling. And yes there is irony and paradox in the fact that charging your batteries involves the intense expenditure of energy - but there you have it, that's how it works.

The other issue is diet and maintaining positive health habits, which fortunately doesn't require physical effort like the exercise does. In many cases it simply involves not doing the wrong things. I often had pretty severe insomnia flareups, and when I did, I found avoiding coffee and refined sugars helped alot (exercise also helped with that too), especially after 5PM (but avoidance altogether is best). I don't think you smoke or drink, but obviously saying goodbye to those things is very important too. And of course eating plenty of fresh ruits and vegetables and drinking tons of fresh, pure water is best. Lean meats and whole grains, you know the deal. If you have the discipline to adhere strictly to this type of diet and can maintain a minimal intake of carbs (not easy for me, but I could do it when I really needed to), then I think you will definitely lose weight and feel better. And of course I can't know if your metabolic clock will get reset like mine seems to have been recently after tightening down on carbs and increasing activity level, but it just might. Especially as time goes on and the effects of the IFN wane.

Anyway, sorry to blather on, but I really do hope you try your best to force yourself to put one foot in front of another. I know if seems nearly impossible, but you must try and you must call on every fiber within your being to DO IT! If you do, I definitely think you'll start to emotionally and physically come around in time, at least partially - and maybe much more so than you can imagine right now. Best of luck dointime, I'm definitely pulling for ya!

[dointime]

hi again,  

I just reread the above post and realised that it sounded like sour grapes - which I didn't mean.  I know that you have both fought a hard battle to get back to health after tx and I congratulate you both.  I am in the middle of that same battle right now and desperate to reclaim what health I had before tx.  But there's just no way that I could do the kind of exercise that you are managing.  I'd like to think that I could work up to it and I just need to get over the 'interferon hangover'.  But I wonder if it's the virus as well that is dragging me down.

So I suppose what I was really asking is whether you would have been up to this level of exercise before your tx when you still had the virus?  

Thanks
dointime  

[dointime]

Hi there - I would dearly love to be doing the diet and exercise that you both describe and lose the weight I've gained during tx.  However I still have debilitating fatigue at 10 months post tx and no SVR.

So my question to you is - do you think you could have achieved what you have without SVR?

thanks
dointime    

[Trish77]

Very interested in this as you go along.  There is the post-tx recovery phase that's important too.  After what a year of comparative inactivity does to you, it's good for the mind and body to "take back" what we've lost so to speak.

I don't know much about this other than that I have a girlfriend who lost weight this way after trying the usual assortment of things that didn't work and that for years I have heard "them" say that breakfast should be your best meal of the day.

Interested how you continue to make out and interesting to see the common experiences such as mremeet that have similar results.

I will look forward to getting back into the swing of things after tx and to have a plan to hit the ground running is cool.  Obviously we're all thinking beings and can decide for ourselves what works however having people share their experiences gives us some data to work with!

Thanks for posting Jim......interested to know how it goes.  

I'll skip the sardines ...  :)

[mremeet]

I don't know if you recall my post a few weeks back about my little weight gain misadventure post tx, so thought I'd "weigh in" again. As a brief update, the stubborn fat that I just couldn't lose (was at 207lbs post tx, pre-tx starting weight was 185lbs), has come off and stayed off. And I have returned to my slovenly carb laden diet too...including beer drinking (although I stick to flavorless american lite beer now). I have added some more resistance training, mostly in the form of pushups and especially pullups. I've put some more muscle on and even dropped an inch from my pre-tx waistline. But I don't really work out regularly, I just do it here and there. And I keep up pretty good on aerobics, or at least nice long walks (when I'm away from my mountain bike on work travel).

But I guess my point is, is that the very stubborn weight gain I was dealing with before was definitely dealt with via low carb/high protein. I would indulge in a smallish bowl of oatmeal in the morning and then stick to a low carb/high protein diet the rest of the day. And I would walk long distances daily, often with a 30lb pack. Suddenly that stubborn weight melted away in a mere two weeks. I lost more than a pound a day! (I know, "that's not safe" etc) And again, strangely, that low carb boot camp thing I went through seems to have reset my clock. As I mentioned previously, I'm back to my old "carby ways" and haven't really been that religiously exercising - and yet the weight's staying off with no problems. I suppose it's possible that my interferon hangover has by coincidence switched gears into a declining mode and is on the way out - and that's really what's going on here. But the lowcarb/high protein boot camp regimen sure seemed to turn the tide for me. And I think putting on a little more muscle (mostly from pull ups, which are an awesome and simple exercise) has provided me with more fat burning capacity than even before tx. Thats why my waist is smaller than pre tx and why the weight is now staying off. Anyway, hopefully it will work for you too. I know you're educated and disciplined, so I suspect it's just a matter of time before you finally settle into the right groove too. There is life on the other side of intra-abdominal land. Best of luck in the meantime...

[Andiamo1]

Dr D recommends the south beach diet for people with fatty liver.  His opinion is that a low carb diet reduces liver fat faster than any other diet.
Eric

[merryBe]

ouch, if I ate many  calories for breakfast I'd be comatose the rest of the day!!.
it's all I can do to down the requisite cup of oatmeal to accompany the Riba.

to say nothing of the fact that HR's advice about not overtaxing the liver with too much metabolizing at any given time seems well researched not to mention logical.

plus, that caloic amount maximum for any day, that has more to do with whether you lose and continue to lose. For most men, 1200 is considered medically to low, and can lead to heart damage. A safer low for men is 1500 and supports vital muscles like the heart through the dieting process.
mb

[copyman]

good stuff jim, thanks

[Fl_Gator]

good grief...egg whites and sardines...for breakfast??? Blek...couldn't you find anything better at 6:am.

****Don't know how it sounds, but it did taste deeeelicious**** <<<< LIAR


What is your calorie, fat and carb intake for the day.

[jmjm530]

Forgot to add I had a Starbucks Tall Soy "Americano" after my morning ride. It was the first caffeine I've had all week as I've been trying to see if caffeine has any effect on my bp or not. Hopefully, it's "or not" since I not only enjoy a daily 1-2 cups but  some studies suggest coffee may also be liver protective. But we'll see because bp trumps both of these things from my point of view. My motivation is it feels so good getting off those blood pressure meds and I remind myself of that every time I think about reaching for some salt :)