Weightlifting supplements, HRT and HepC

[strongirl]

Hello everyone. A little background first:
I was newly diagnosed in 2004, but apparently have had HepC for about 24 years.  I am 49 and female.  I powerlift as a hobby and have been lifting for about the last 22 years.  Had a biopsy last year: level one, stage one.  Viral load is about 1.7 million. I have no, or very few symptoms that I know of.  Am putting off treatment for now, but get my blood checked every 6 months.
My question involves hormone replacement therapy and HepC.  I am menopausal and wonder if I should use HRT?  I have used prohormones in the past that convert to Testosterone in very, very low dosages to enhance my libido, control the symptoms and keep my strength and muscle mass (but no anabolic steroids).  Historically my enzymes have been close to normal, but my last blood test showed they were elevated.  I believe that this was due to the Ibuprofen I was taking for a shoulder injury (600mg every four hours for about two weeks) and not due to the prohormones.  I am currently off everything right now and will remain that way for two months.  I have a blood test coming up in November.
Does anyone have any information or experience with hormone replacement therapy (estrogen or testostorone) and how harsh it is on the liver.  The prohormone I was using is a transdermal application that goes on the skin and not an oral.  I have only been using it in the last year since I've had menopause symptoms.  Also what about other performance supplements like creatine or any of the ergogenic aids with caffiene and herbal extracts? Anyone have any insight on this

[Forseegood]

HI, just reading your posts again. I'm in kind of a limbo waiting to treat myself. I can totally understand your fervor for working out - being a "gym rat" - and with all my supplementation and veggie juicing, etc. for most of my life. I live in W. Hollywood and it's a real culture here so I don't feel the least bit weird about it around here. I used to love working out with weights, the whole thing.

I will say this though, ironically enough, we "health freaks" who have been very concerned with the "runners high" and endorphin highs we have always gotten from lifting weights, etc. might even have a tougher time with the whole concept of treating with these meds, they are soooo counter-intuitive for us, in that putting strong, potentially weakening meds in our systems is really "alien" for us. Most of us hate pharma drugs! the whole idea of them. That's not to say that people who haven't had our lifestyles are fine with it, but I just keep running into "health freaks" (I use that term endearingly) that are running the other way when it comes to doing "treatment." I am one of those people; I have been wrestling with this issue for years now.

It's just a real cost/benefit analysis you have to do with your doc. On one hand, as has been said, if you treat now your chances of clearing are better, and your chances of expericing bad side effects is reduced because your immune system is younger and in better shape. I'll tell you it's really inspiring and heartening to hear these people who have "finished" treatment and report how much better they feel - and the virus is gone! They can just go on with their lives as before! Without all this weighing on their minds! You talk to them and you feel like starting right away.

But then you weigh that with the fact that some of these new, less harsh drugs are in trials now and are doing very well, which means they might be "fast tracked" by the FDA, which means they could be "at  market" in 3 years instead of 5, or around there. And some of us won't even have to wait till that at market, we can maybe get on the trials themselves. Many docs would probably say that you have 3 years or a little more to wait. I don't know (nobody does) how much we should hang on to that - it's anybody's guess, which means that we would have to do the current meds anyway, and in worse shape than we are in now if we do wait. Also if you wait, there is a chance that the actual virus will start doing a little more damage, and you'll start to get the symptoms from the virus itself. From what I've read, and my own theory is, that a lot of women seem to get more symptoms from the virus even at lower biopsy grades, might be that the virus is affecting hormone levels, auto-immune stuff, etc. so the virus itself ends up exascerbating other issues and goes more "systemic" though not hurting the liver as much and at such a progressive rate. I have some of those issues and that's why I don't do weights anymore, no longer have the energy for it. I seem to be suffering an especially bad menopause. I'm older than you though, I'm 52.

Add to that - there isn't a great percentage rate for people who are clearing with the geno 1's. Even though it's better than a few years back, 50% isn't great. Let's face it. And some people do end up worse off from the treatment than before, it's a plain fact, I've spoken to some of them. There are people here who feel that if you are less than a biopsy grade of 2, you should try to wait, many docs think this as well. Even though if you do treat and don't clear, your liver can be better off for it, you give it a break from the virus and it can recoup and regroup because of the treatment you did do.

So yeah, it's a big giant **** shoot in my mind, and those that have taken the leap even though they have low biopsy grades, and have cleared, can't figure out why we are still dithering. What a "Sophie's Choice."

As far as the testosterone, an endocronologist can talk to you about those things. Also do a search on it, (testosterone and liver damage, for example>) tons of info out there on it. You'll get support at these boards whatever you and your doc decide to do. Hope I didn't confuse you too much.

[strongirl]

So I guess a bulking phase is in order prior to treatment ;)!
Actually, I've always had trouble keeping the weight on, so that will be really tough.
A question I'm not sure I have found a definitive answer to is how well does our liver repair itself while infected with the virus. I imagine it depends on how advanced ones disease is. And is this healing even worse during treatment?  I suppose these are questions I should ask my hepitologist.
Anyway, thanks for responding.  I know my situation is a bit unique as most folks arn't concerned with being able to lift twice their bodyweight, but it is a major part of who I am.  Strong in spirit, strong in mind, strong in body.

[friole]

I don't know about the effects of many of the products you have been using so cannot address that.  I have read that estrogen can be protective for the liver, even during treatment.  I mainly write because I have the same biopsy results as you - G1, S1, and my pretreatment viral load was about the same - 1.5 million (I am a few years older than you and do treat).

  Two things caught my eye in your post.  One, that once you know about the disease, it becomes an obsession, and you are constantly trying to figure out it IT is the source of every ache and pain.  In that I agree, and I think most people here do think about it every day.  Problem is, if you don't treat you won't know if it was the hep c.  The other thing you wrote was that the cure was worse than the disease. Although there are many of us who have severe side effects from the tx, not everyone does. I am one of the fortunate ones. My theory is that the hep C reduces your over all immunity, and any area in which you already weak (like the sinus) seems to get worse.  If you are in good health which you seem to be, your chances of NOT having side effects are pretty good.  Truly, you are young enough to wait it out, but if you do, make sure you get blood work done regularly and another biopsy in 3 years.  If you do choose to treat, I understand you cannot make more muscle mass while on treatment but with a healthy excercise program, can maintain your current muscle.  Best of luck.
Kathy

[strongirl]

Thanks for the study.  I've seen a few items about estrogen being protective, but nothing about testosterone being hepatoxic or accelerating the disease.  HepC seems to accelerate faster in men than women, but is that due to the testoterone or other factors such as lifestyle (drinking).  
I am convinced that my health concious lifestyle for the last 22 years has been a factor in saving my liver.  One reason why I am putting off treatment is that it appears the cure is worse than the disease (in my case anyway).  It's really not affecting my life, but I almost wish I didn't know because now I think about it too much. Every twitch and pain I wonder about now.  Woke up with a screamer of a headache this morning.  Could be the hepC, could be menopause or could just be plain old sinus.  Does it matter? No, I'll just deal with it.

[strongirl]

I only compete with myself ;)  The ergogenic aids are mostly caffiene based now.  I used to used ephedra based ones (boy, were those great) before the ban.  They never affected my liver enzymes and that was for years before I was diagnosed or had a biopsy.  I'm staying away from all over the counter meds until my next blood test.  I'm going to have to get some major dental work done and I'm putting that off until after my blood work.  And obviously I don't smoke or drink (at all).

[jaroman]

Estrogen provides some protection against the virus.
There have been a couple of good threads about HRT fairly recently.  Search for HRT and/or estrogen patch.
Personally, I wouldn't take any ergogenic aids for my lifting. Do you really need them?  Do you compete?

[mmazzz]

do you take gluatamine? i have hep b and had very high enyme levels and i stopped taking the glutamine and stopped eating my protien cookies and they went down. I dont know if there is a correlation but i stopped taking everything except my fiber supplement which i have also stopped recently.