Whole wheat? NOT

Those who are concerned about diet for a healthy liver should read this:

http://curezone.com/art/read.asp?ID=132&db=7&C0=154

We seem to be running out of things to eat.

[Bobby1952]

  So.....if you are not supposed to eat white bread,white Pasta's etc and you can't eat whole wheat then what the hell are you supposed to eat. We can go on a Atkins type diet but it is high in saturated fats which some people say is bad for the Liver also.  Most of us cannot live on just vegetables and fruit alone.
  I realy think that this probably applies to a small subset of people and not to most of us with hep c.

[gauf]

I am frustrated too. i just used to whole wheat and like it. I cannot live on only oatmeal! Sheesh!

[Bobby1952]

  At this point I think I will just eat as healthy as I can, take HRs antifibrotics and wait a year or two to see what happens. And enjoy life again. When I told my wife about the possibility of being retreated in the future with a higher Riba dose and for a longer period of time she just looked at me. This tx is tough on both people not just the person doing it.

[gauf]

Yes, My wife is dreading the next tox more than I am!  You are right to wait and fully recover.

[moahunter]

I honestly that absolutley every food has something bad in it, that is bad for some people, some natural or synthetic toxin. The reason we have a liver is to "clean" the stuff we are exposed to. To me, moderation is the key. Be guided by how you feel after you eat, and eat everything in moderation. For few can enjoy life in a bubble.

[Forseegood]

I try to eat only a relatively small amount of whole grains, compared to the rest of what I eat...I have oatmeal, soy milk, veggies...I do eat some dairy in that I eat a little cheese and cottage cheese once in a while, but no milk, just soy milk...

there are all kinds of noodles to eat that are not wheat based, I'll eat soy lasangna, healthy stuff that I buy...

I do keep my wheat intake to a minimum, but I do eat it once in awhile...I eat a lot of veggies and fruits, for lunch I eat some tomatoes (sometimes baked tomatoes with basil and garlic, a really quick easy thing to eat) and maybe a little cottage cheese with it...(organic of course) I eat boiled eggs in the morning, along with oatmeal, blueberries, soy milk and just a little bit of real maple syrup....I have to eat every 3 hours or so so I have to be creative, I think I eat pretty healthy (but, I don't eat as healthy as HR, but I try! lol_) ....

I munch on almonds and dried cranberries for a pick me up, along with veggie juice, etc etc...what I mean is, it's all relative...what's moderation to me is not what is moderation to somebody else, some people here might think I'm too cautious, others might think I eat too many bad things relative to the good things and...I almost never, never eat fast food....unless I'm stuck somewhere and there is nothing else to eat...

When it comes to treating, I really think maybe that has more to do with genetics, in terms of who clears or not, or svr's...some unhealthy lifestyle people can svr...and others who are much more healthy lifestyle people, do not svr....it's a roll of the dice with that I sometimes think...youre healthy lifestyle won't always help....

But when it comes to just existing with the disease?? (if you haven't treated yet, or have relapsed, etc...) I do think a healthy lifestyle has a lot to do with how you fare with this disease...I think we have to think of our livers as filtering systems, and if we do nothing but overwork the liver and other filtering organs, by putting crud in our systems, then the liver is all that more stressed....cause it has to fight this disease as well, so it's doing double duty...just my take...I try to be as easy on my system as I can be, realizing it's got to deal with the Hepatitis....

[SteveHepC]

I read the article. I don't get it. If you do not have Celiac, I did not see where following the "Gluten Free diet" has been shown to reverse Liver fibrosis. I have had the test for Celiac and it was negative. I eat whole wheat cereal with soy milk and will continue to do so. Like Forseegood, my friend, I have to eat about six small meals a day, and I get a lot of veggies and fruit.

Forseegood: Hi! I've been in touch with HR and he has been most helpful. Much information about blood work has come out.........e.g. one of the first signs of fibrosis is a drop in Platelet count, low LDH, low Total Protein, low Albumin, and the old standard, elevated ALT & AST. All my Liver function tests are within normal ranges. However, when I get GW's stimulus check, I headed out to get a Fibroscan.      Steve

[gauf]

The "creamy smooth skin diet" you are on sounds just yummy.  I myself just finished a pizza!  Once a week I indulge. If I didn't, well may as well call it a day ya know?  6 days a week I do try to keep my liver happy and it has improved the quality of my life. Feel good most of the time. I would like HRs' input on Gluten if you see him. Also would like to know his thoughts on whey protein powder that I take for weight training. Is too much protein gonna have an adverse effect on the liver?  Thanks!

[charm27]

I eat whatever I want. Everything good for you turns out to be be bad and visa versa--
All in moderation........

[Forseegood]

Cheers! I eat a few slices of pizza every once in awhile too...a healthy pizza (if that's not an oxymoron) but a pizza nonetheless...course I eat it with a nice veggie salad, olive oil, Mrs. Dash, yum!

another thing I do is smoothies...fresh fruit, a half banana, soy milk, soy yogurt (they have really good soy yogurts with not too much sugar at Trader Joe's) a little bit of Goatein protein powder, just a little bit...really good and good for you...

I don't eat too much soy, but soy got a bad rap a few years ago, for most people (or if you don't have alleriges to it) a little bit if very good source of protein...

[Forseegood]

please don't get me wrong...I really like your posts, etc...and I hope you don't get offended...but I do think what we eat counts a lot...I know smoker's that come out with that same rationalization, we have pollution, etc....so we might as well smoke, etc, everything will kill ya...then they keep puffing...

well, I think, if we do have do deal with pollutants, etc...it's all the more reason that we should help keep our immune systems as healthy as we can to help deal with those offenders, by making some kind of effort to eat right, exercise, etc...or we're really screwed...My dad exercises and eats really well, and he's celebrating his 100th birthday, and he still plays golf (only 9 rounds now though) without a golf cart...when people tell him it must be just his genes, he says "yes, a little bit, but I had 4 brothers and sisters who didn't follow such a healthy lifestyle, and they are all long dead..."

Just my feelings about it, I think it's sure done me some good. Respectfully....

[Deb_c430]

I am with you moderation, I also try and eat in season,  so it is not all sprayed with stuff, and more organic.  I am wary of preservatives and fast food.  

I love fruit and veg,   nuts oh yeah and this is peeps season! :)

Sorry, that was silly,   I can't do soy,  

Did anyone see that special on tlc, crazy sexy cancer? The girl had an inoperable tumour cancer very slow moving,   she began eating wheat grass,  and a micro biotic what ever I forget,   Made her deathly sick at first  then found it very good for her cancer.

I dunno, I do want to eat healthy, but I do not want to stop  everyhting I enjoy, so for me it is moderation also.

Gauf  a blessed Holy Week.

Deb

[Forseegood]

that's what I mean about moderation:) you sound like a healthy eater...but someone who eats at McDonald's every day but Friday might think they are a moderately healthy eater, because they don't eat there on Fridays...it depends on what your view is of moderation:) but yeah, when it comes down to it, people can do whatever they want...just making suggestions here...I know I probably sound obnoxious, but what else is new? lol....

[copyman]

Yes, like someone else posted what the hell are we suppose to eat! it all comes down to one thing, anything in moderation is OK !!! LOL i will probably get blasted for this but even alcohol.  even though i say this as stage 1 on BX i choose NOT to drink alcohol on a regular basis.  since i found out i have HCV 1 1/2 yrs ago i have had maybe 5 glasses of wine and 5 beers.  as for diet, i try and eat right but still have a slice of pizza or meat every now and then. after all we can not stop living because of this disease. HCV has a way of consuming a persons life with worry. when this happens the disease has won so try and not let this happen. best wishes to all

[Forseegood]

I don't think youre doing badly lol...and it sounds like youre actually not disagreeing with what I'm saying, only that it's a perspective thing...like i said, I have a slice a pizza every now and then, I'm not a monk...but I do believe that I probably eat better then a lot of people, but that's not a big DEAL for me though...that's just how I eat, I learned from my dad how to eat, so I kind of ate well even at home...I'm not worrying about what I eat, it comes naturally to me...

so I don't think I'm missing out on anything...I'm very used to it...to where most unhealthy food tastes bad to me...but I once in awhile eat ice cream, and some other things...now, maybe another person is not used to this way of eating, and thinks that I must be suffering cause I'm not eating Big Macs...but that's their perspective, not mine...I would eat like this if I didn't have this disease because I like the way good food makes me feel and look...but maybe I'd drink a glass of wine now and then, I don't know...

[scratchinghead]

Dr. Mercola's comment on that link:
If you have hepatitis, or any type of liver disease, it would certainly seem reasonable to avoid gluten for a few weeks and see what happens to your liver.
================================
Yeah, right! "a few weeks and see what happens to your liver".
Sounds pretty naive, he does.

It's always been known that oats trump wheat. God I love shredded wheat.

[mr.pink]

you should try gluten free pasta, it is brown rice, actually. Does not give that bloatied feeling that is I wlays get with Wheat products as well as white bread. I also dropped regular cheese and dairy and drink soy ( I know about the soy scare). Meat is geneally off the diet. Since I am about to go another round, the only thing I can do right now is take Miilk Thistle, antioxidants, green tea, water and exercise. I am only at stage 1, so hopefully I can keep my progression rate in check so i can at least die of natural causes if the next roud tx doesn;t pan out. More later,
Mr. Pink    

[merryBe]

celiac is rare, a scratch test with yut loval allergic can clear up what tpotrins to avoid.

Glueten is no more harm that the protein in oats unless one is allergic.
'
In fact, it is my understanding that a liver friendly diet required less protein, 1-2 oz per meal, and that means increasing grains and dmplex carbohydrate as well as fruits and veggies is the way to keep good digestive juices going.

the worst thing t do is start eating white refined products,,,they slow down the bowels, and 3 movements a day helps the liver stay in better shaoe.

Unless you are an esatern Indian, or come from a culture where wheat is not a common grain, and ergo the populave has lost their ability to process it, you should be alright,

there are some foods to really avoid,,,,,chiefly red meats and thing high in iron.
However, I;d go right ahead eating your whole wheat, just as long as it has been baked through/// (sometime peole=ple think they have a wheat allergy but actually are reacteing to the dopioud uncooked yeast still in some specialty brand.  MB

[Forseegood]

love ya Merry, you know that...but I'm with scratchy on this one...seems that even if you don't have celiac disease, many, many people report bloating with wheat...

a friend of mine who is in his late 50's swells up like a blowfish (well, I'm exaggerating for effect, lol, but he does look swollen in his face) (he doesn't have celiac) and this can happen to many people, even if it's almost unnoticeable in some people...they tell actresses not to eat bread before they are performing in the theater, etc..to help keep off the bloats, this can happen with some people with alcohol too...maybe yeasts too, etc?

but to me at least, after all I read, wheat is not a good a grain as oats...I guess this is a long way of saying many people have maybe even small reactions to gluten and don't even realize it...without having celiac...there are many good non-gluten breads, like millet, kamut, etc etc...course, a little wheat probably won't hurt most people, so I might be overstating it...I eat it once in a while, but not often...

[Forseegood]

I know a women who was able to almost eliminate her asthma when she gave up gluten, and she didn't have celiac...there is a women who posts here infrequently who feels loads better, less weight gain, bloating, etc...when she gave up gluten...she prob might not like it if I named her....also, they tell you not to give your animals gluten, etc...well, might as well get off my gluten kick, lol lol....

[Deb_c430]

HCV has a way of consuming a persons life with worry. when this happens the disease has won so try and not let this happen.

That says it all for me!  I am  determined to not let it control my every  breath. I want to enjoy my life,  not be controlled.  I do not drink, do drugs I am a normal person who likes food.    I rarely eat mcdonalds,  fast food, I enjoy a steak,   but try to eat healthy and carefully.

I use common sense.

My only nod to this disease is getting rid of it, with these poionous drugs.    

[pigeonca]

When I first became diabetic and started visiting web sites for diabetics, I quickly came upon a network of spammers who militate against artificial sweeteners and childhood vaccinations.  These crackpots and quacks include Dr. Mercola, along with "Dr." Betty Martini, Rick Rense, Dr. H. J. Roberts and a few others.  Unfortunately they broadcast far and wide and have had considerable influence, especially on some practitioners of alternative medicine.

Additionally, because Mercola's advise is at times accurate and helpful, he is one of the more convincing quacks, but if it even some of the time talks like a duck, it's still a duck.  I would take this information about wheat and gluten with a grain of salt - and some butter and jam.

[CockSparrow]

4C - but I once in awhile eat ice cream
------------------------------------------------------
Somehow i doubt you will be eating healthy once you start Tx
You are going to be living on ice Cream, and every thing else that sugar fat and salt.

I havent been able to even look at ice cream since i finished. Almost a year now.
CS

[Trish77]

Gauf:  good article for those who may not have considered Celiac Disease in their health picture.

"Avoiding Wheat and Gluten May Reverse Liver Failure and Hepatitis"

Seems it would have been just a tad more accurate if he inserted right after Liver Failure "in those with Celiac Disease and Hepatitis".  

I don't see where this pertains to those with Hepatitis only, other than that both impact the liver.  It doesn't mean that eating gluten has the same impact on persons with Hepaptis as it does on those with BOTH Celiac Disease and Hepatitis.  His reason for those with Hepatitis ONLY going off gluten is a very unscientific "can't hurt, might help".  Show me a little data with that comment and maybe I'll think about it more.  And it MIGHT hurt, if you're encouraging people to take a direction that isn't going to make a bit of difference for them based on what is good for another disease and make people think that what they thought was helping them has been hurting them all along, when in fact, it hasn't been hurting them at all.  We all get enough **** thrown at us every day about the possibility of this thing and that thing causing us harm...and then a year later, a reversal on the whole thing.

My wholewheat pasta doesn't bloat me and doesn't cause me harm...in fact, I think it helps me.  If it causes someone ELSE harm.. then THEY shouldn't eat it.  To me, it's as simple as that.  What you eat should be tailored to your OWN individual health requirements and because it works or doesn't work for someone else, doesn't mean it will apply to me.

Then we get down to the question of what is healthy ENOUGH?  And we all decide that for ourselves.  Perhaps for Forseegood (sorry to pick on you as an example here but you're a GREAT example on this one! :) how most of us eat is not healthy enough.  Perhaps how we eat IS healthy enough for ourselves and while it may be even healthier to go the whole organic, macrobiotoc gluten-free dairy-free route (and that is a big question mark for me), perhaps what others are doing is also sufficient...for THEM.  

Some people are constantly physical and in peak condition.  Others are just physical enough to maintain a reasonable level of fitness.  It's a personal thing, isn't it?  Kind of the same thing from a different perspective.

[robeire]

Hi Eceryone Rob here- good thread-I try and eat sensibly and know about the no nos  (sugary stuff-junkfood-fied breakfasts!)
I do treat myself though-organic choc /bacon sanddwich etc
exercise I ve always done-walks on the beach-drinkin good water etc-
Hey Deb I like what you said-
"HCV has a way of consuming a persons life with worry. when this happens the disease has won so try and not let this happen."
For me that is so right on-
I just got my basic bloods results today alt290 ast 140  serum ferritin 310(quite high) all other tests were in normal ranges-didnt have VL-
got back home and went to bed mainly on account of feeling down on the alts etc-I did 6months combo 3 yrsd ago-relapsed i month after-energy very good these days-main issue is reflux/heartburn/and tendonitis in right shoulder---arghhh upper right shouldr pain.....
anyways am trying not to get into the fixation of worry -I am doing the best I can-
well wishes to one and all from Rob in ireland ;)

[justme53]

I agree that sensible and moderate is the way to go. My mate needs to remind me of that every now and again when I get symptomatic and go overboard in diet research. Tells me I need to re-engage in life. :-D

The other thing I want to comment on is the right shoulder pain you mention. I have seen the same complaint SO many times here recently, myself included, and wonder what, if any, connection there is to HCV.

Peace, Pam

[Forseegood]

CS: I was speaking about eating generally...not on tx, I realize the stuff messes with your tastebuds....hope you are well these days...

All: writing on boards can sometimes gets a little tricky...I put it down to "trigger words" ...sometimes people reading on a board will tend to read kinda fast, or not thoroughly...me included...

And just pick up on a few words in a post, and comment on those words, instead of the entire argument or meaning of the post...so they address the words and not the entire argument.... the original poster then addresses the criticism, and the tenor or meaning of the original post gets lost in the back and forth, things get more charged then was intended, etc...if I haven't seen this phenomenon a thousand times, haven't seen it once....

When I talked about gluten, I just meant wheat wasn't a good a grain as oats...didn't mean it was terrible for people...it's just not a great grain in my humble opinion...I do think Dr. Mercola is a little off sometimes, definitely....but he does have some good things to say as well....

Anyway, youre not going to come up with a bunch of people allergic to oats...people can have reactions to wheat, such as bloating, even if they don't have celiac disease...

Sometimes they don't even realize this until they give up wheat, or cut way down if they are eating a lot of it...I eat wheat sometimes, but not often...I tend to retain water....and when I eat a lot of wheat, I bloat...and I don't have celiac disease....

I have eaten carefully for my entire life, cept maybe a brief time when I was a teenager...don't think that makes me crazy, that's just how I eat, don't even give it much thought anymore...but maybe some people think so...lol....

it all depends on what someone is used to, if they are used to eating a certain way, another way of eating will seem odd to them, or not right, or over the bend....that's understandable...perspective is everything when it comes to opinions...

My dad eats carefully and very naturally and healthily (although I see him eating the occasional cookie or dessert, or a slice of pizza....he's not a monk either)...and he's still playing 9 holes of golf (without a golf cart) and riding his bike to the store...still has most of his marbles....and he's a 100 years old. I've seen eating well paying off, in more then just my dad....for a lot of people including many of my friends...but I live in West Hollywood, so it's not uncommon here....many people here being in the "business" of looking good, because of their jobs...but looking good as we age can have a lot to do with healthy eating - and a healthy lifestyle...and me having liver disease? all the more reason - to my way of thinking...though it's perfectly okay if people don;t agree with this...

[Forseegood]

and I agree with you...if eating gluten doesn't make you bloat, by all means, enjoy your whole wheat pasta...better then the other kind of pasta...but I should get out while I'm ahead...lol....lol....

[Severance]

I joke that I have the same diet as the average Kiwi male, eats, roots, shoots, seeds and leaves. But Bobby poses a good question, what are we supposed to eat?
Perhaps it's not so much the gluten as the processing. A gluten free diet involves a lot more in the way of home cooking.  I'm gluten free. When you know a certain food equates to a certain no of down hours and pain, it's not such a hard choice. And that slice of pizza looses it's lure against probable outcomes.  
White bread, brown bread, heavy starches, fatty meats, the list of no, no's is endless.
Nuts, fish, dairy substitutes all in the luxury food price range.
Lots I could eat but what to put it on? Looks pretty silly pulling out a handful of humus and an avocado for lunch. Not to mention messy.
Forseegood: if you have links to some recipe pages and new ideas for food, me and the arm I may soon chew off would be eternally grateful.
thanks in advance.
Sev.

[working dog]

i really enjoyed reading this post..in fact since this was first posted i've been eating so much wheat just to finish it and get it out of the house..and i am bloated bad...also having lots of fatigue....i think i'll have to throw out a bunch of boxes of autumn wheat..just can't have it around without eating it...so much to learn..use to think i was pretty healthy...i hope the rice milk is ok..but like catfish its probably contaminated too...billy

[Severance]

Wow your cat fishes! How much for the little kitty?
I'll decontaminate the furry wee beggar myself.

[Forseegood]

wow, a nice Kiwi on here! Went to Australia, but never New Zealand, what a wonderful place to live...hey, don't eat roots, but alotta seeds and nuts!

Working Dog: hope I didn't stress this issue too much by evening mentioning it, that can happen! be well!