after treatment tottie

My long 48 weeks will end 04/28 and at the time have been undetectable since week 12.  I am planning a vacation to Europe in the middle of May.  I don't want to risk any chances of acheiving SVR, is it safe to have a few cocktails while I am touring thru wine country?   I had mild fibrosis at the beginning of treatment.

[FlGuy]

You'd regret it if you didn't. Good luck with the last few weeks.  Nice reward for finishing!

[GoofyDad]

After treatment tottie?? I'm all about the after treatment hottie! Though I guess they needn't be exclusive.

[Forseegood]

Hi, youre not really specific as to having a few cocktails... for the whole trip? or weekly? daily? guess that would have some bearing on it...my doc says no alcohol for 6 months after finishing (being that the meds have already done a number on your system)...and then he says only very sparingly thereafter...though I hate to be the kill-joy on this board (there is always a killjoy!) I suppose you should ask youre own hepatologist and do some research...

(now flguy and Goof will never dance with me!)

[What Next]

Sorry to jump the suject but I could use some help. I am going to sound crazy but here goes I have been sick feeling bad most of the time since i started treatment 10 weeks ago friday and right now I feel like the meds are driving me crazy i am on a antidepresant and i am not sucidal but i think there is something cralwing all over me all the time and my whole body is so sore. i know these are some of the sides but do they ever stop and how long can a person go on like this before they really do go nuts

[Forseegood]

sorry you are having a hard time right now, since you say youre on anti-d's hopefully you are under a psychiatrist's care? If so, please call him/her, and call your hepatologist as well...asap...if it gets too bad get some help at an emergency as well (there are also emergency mental health clinics in my town, hopefully yours as well, that way you might have to change the anti-d you are on, or do whatever)...good luck to you, and please check in...people care about you you know...hope you can get some answers right away...

[Califia]

Poor baby!   The treatment can do a number on the nervous system, and skin sensitivity like this sounds like it could be CNS-related, something you should (also)  take up with your internist.  My best guess, only.

[SJL]

I know the feeling you are experiencing. Please call your Psychiatrist or Hepatologist asap and talk to them about your  anti-depressant. Remember you can always call the Be-In-Charge program also. I cannot locate the number right now, but I am sure any Pharmacy can guide you. It is a service from Peg-Intron.
It sounds as if you need a different dose or a new ad. I take Neurotin and Effexor, 3xday, while I am on interferon treatment.

Try a cool shower or bath & I have found that powder works better than cream. It is a feeling which is very uncomfortable & you do feel helpless-but stay strong, contact your docs. & I sure hope you are feeling better soon.
Sandy

[Dale_Ray]

You've spent all this time trying to protect an organ that keeps you alive and been successful why put this same organ in harms way over a drink. They sell cokes in Europe. Personal opinion. Dale

[carpedi]

My doc said a glass of wine a day would be ok after treatment and that my liver was probably in better shape at this point than a lot of people's. However, since my whole body has been under seige from the meds for a long time and I don't expect to recover instantly, I limit it to an occasional glass of wine ... but I wonder about even that. I sure wish somebody knew definitively!

[NYgirl]

I think you need to just be as moderate as possible with drinking because of the liver damage - if treatment is OVER then I have always heard a glass of wine wouldn't hurt you (like it could DURING treatment) I don't know his liver damage but please remember there IS liver damage in there and alcohol is the worst thing besides hep when having this.

I probably would want to sample the wine too...so I think I would have just made a different vacation knowing I am too weak to deal with THAT.

Kind of curious with a liver disease why you guys ARE going to wine country LOL.  

Have a great time and ASK YOUR DOCTOR...none of us in here are doctors and although we can guess about things none of our words should be final.

[friole]

cgd -  How could it hurt to have  a few glasses of wine after treatment, especially since your fibrosis was mild to begin with.  Sounds like a once in a lifetime trip.  Enjoy and practice moderation.

what's next -- sounds just awful.  It doesn't sound like the normal Riba bumps everyone seems to have.  Perhaps you do need the AD's modified - I don't know.  Soothing baths sound like they might help.  Perhaps even a massage -- fisheress was given one for her birthday and said it was wonderful. You have completed 10 weeks -- congratulations on your accomplishment.  Will you get a PCR at 12 weeks?  I don't know what your stats are -- would you mind telling me?  I am 58, female, 1a, beginning vL 1.52 milliion, clear since 20 weeks (hooray), will do 35 tonight.  
frijole

[mikesimon]

I don't think that an occasional glass of wine would be harmful if you have eradicated the virus <B>but that would not be clear until at least 3 months(and 6 months would be better) after you have stopped TX.</B> The middle of May is a bit too soon if you are stopping on 4/28 and in the event that you are not clear alcohol could be harmful. I don't think that drinking would necessarily  affect your chances of achieveing SVR but if the virus is present alcohol is a bad choice. I'm sorry to say this but I do think I am right unless there is something I am missing. Regardless of what you decide I wish you the best. Mike

[sindog]

hi,
I was told I can never drink again. My liver is stage 3, grade 3 and probably a factor. I agree with Forseegood, do some research and talk with your doc. You just went through an ordeal to save your liver, treasure it. Don't get me wrong, I used to be the fun guy at the party.

[NYgirl]

Said:  Don't get me wrong, I used to be the fun guy at the party.


Oh that was you I was hanging around with?????  :)

I just personally don't think its worth it until at least a six month PCR says clear and yeah...in the olden days I would have drank the VATS of wine...forget the bottles.

[can-do-man]

Glad to see you out of that dog house. If you would just stop chasing them cars it would save you a whole lot of trouble.....

Wolf Wolf

[fishdoc]

Hey sin.. glad your back!  Don't know if you saw the thread way down the road a piece, but all my dads side are from wyoming.. born in ten sleep, some still live in green river, casper, and gillete, brother still in worland.......  nice country!

[cuteus]

Like you, I had mild damage at stage 1, had a couple of drinks while on tx, maybe 3-4 in 74 wks. Post tx I had some champagne at a wedding, about 4 wks after EOT. PCR was still negative about two wks later. And remains negative. I drink occassionally now. If you had mild damage, finished tx and have SVR, many drs say it is ok to have a few drinks now and then. I even read dr Dieterich say the same to someone in ask the dr.
Is there any chance you can have the PCR just before you leave? That would be about 4 wks post tx and should give you a good indication of your SVR.
TRY to get the PCR before. Just to have an idea. The one month PCR correlates closely to the 3 and 6 mo PCR.
ENJOY!

[Dale_Ray]

For me week 4 thru 12 were just horrible with the sides. Couldn't eat, sleep or swallow enough water. Kept a itchhing rash and dandy headaches. Nickle taste in my mouth and fever and chills. At week 12 in started backing away and I have been feeling really good ecept the fatigue which ain't goin away until the treatment is over. I sympathize with you so much but it will turn the corner so hang in there. I am taking Pegasus / Copegus / Nupogen / Ambien / Lexapro / Tylenol Extra Strenth. Biggest problem for me right now is the joint ache. With all of this and talking to so many I appear to be just about average with the side affects. Stay safe. Dale

[sirensong]

The number for "Be in Charge" is 1-888-437-2608.  Sorry to hear you are having a hard time.  I am getting quite the education myself these days!  

CDG-wow-have a great time, you deserve it.  Sounds absolutely wonderful.  Gives me ideas for when I am done.....hmmmm

[FlGuy]

Here is a question, asked and answered by Dr. Dietrich on the subject of alcohol after tx.  Granted, it's more than a month post-tx...

"I am entering my sixth month since being treated for Hep C. My liver appears to be in good shape. I am still Negative. Is drinking any worse for me than anyone else?"
"Sounds like you a cure in the making? I don't think moderate alcohol intake, that is 1-2 drinks, glasses of wine or beers per day would put you at any more risk of liver disease than anyone else at this time. It will take your biopsy several years to normalize, but it will eventually get back to normal. Congratulations on your cure! Remember everything in moderation! DTD"

Personally, I don't drink much - 3 beers a year would be a lot. But, I am a proponent of taking my lfe back from HCV and tx. If I a taking the trip of a lifetime I would not fail to experience what it has to offer.  In moderation, of course.

[Cougar2]

Nygirl, i commented on this the other day, about my husband having positive results but is only 2/3 way through treatment and now wanting to drink.  I was happy to see this post, will have to leave this up on the computer and make sure he sees it.  He thinks because he is doing good so far that it is now ok.  Making me worry a lot and I don't understand why he is thinking like that.

[NYgirl]

I remember you posting that the other day.  It's such a shame that he has gotten a mind set on that it's "ok".

Does he realize the REAL fact that every ounce he drinks stops the treatment until it's OUT of his body?  Heck even one HOUR chance of giving the virus to replicate is too much!  Giving it five MINUTES chance of growing is just too much! Is viral breakthrough worth a drink to me? H3LL NO! Treatment is tough enough  I want to make this a ONE TIME THING!  

It's such a shame. Everybody knows ... I've drank more in my day than most (and yet still less than some ;-) but right now...just can't.  The chance of a viral breakthrough during treatment is too high...and too rough a mistake to make and then say "wow I shouldn't have done that" you know? Its not like eating a piece of chocolate cake and feeling guilty later on.

I tell myself when I'm done...either way...I can have one then....whatever I want LOL that way at least I'm not thinking "forever" and "forever" is the word that has ALWAYS historically freaked me out and caused me to relapse.

If you don't mind i'll say a prayer for you both...it's such a HARD Thing - I can really relate. The Christmas party at work this year was literally torture so I went home early.

[doll face]

While I was on tx I had an  occasional glass of wine Same as Cuteus  mybe 4-5during my 72 week tx. Since I had no damage the doctor said once in a while wouldn't hurt. Didn't have any till I came back with my first negative PCR. Since finishing tx I was now told that a few wouldn't hurt,just to not over do it.
I agree that you should try to get a pcr doe beforeyou leave, it will give you a pieceof mind, and if you do relapse for any reason you will know that it is not from the  few glasses of wine.

This discussion will always be a big debate in the hepatitis world so you will always hear from both sides. Unless you have had a problem with alcohol in the past, I wouldn't ler it worry you too much

Have a wonderful vacation.

[Dale_Ray]

Cougar my doctor explained it to me this way. Any alcohol works as an accelerator on your liver. I asked the question: This is because of the Hep C. His response was that Alcohol was bad for your liver and health even if you didn't have the hep C. I lost two uncles who were in their 50's because they liked alcohol way to much and I haven't touched the stuff in years. I use to smoke and I know how hard that was to stop and I still know that I would like to suck the bottom out of a pack of Salem Lights so the want is strong. We all have things to deal with. My focus now is watching my kids and grandkids grow and spending as much time for as long as possible with them. For me that means they are more important than alcohol and smoking. That is my reason though.

Debby: I'm glad you don't drink anymore. It's great how you always take personal responsibility for your situation and never fault anyone else. Your my hero. You improve my days, my skin rash and my addiction to fudge pops. Don't leave me for at least 32 more weeks ha! Dale

[cuteus]

I left one important factor out:
If you had mild damage, finished tx and have SVR, AND HAVE NO SUBSTANCE ABUSE ISSUES, many drs say it is ok to have a few drinks now and then.

WHen on tx, I waited until my negative PCR to have that drink at xmas time. special occassions only and about 3-4 times. If the virus is gone, it can not be brought back by alcohol, but if it is still there, is another story. If someone has a substance abuse problem, the consensus is they should abstain.
NO sense in taking any chances.
There was a member here who had a viral breakthrough while on tx and was taken off tx, after 6-7 mo on tx. He never shared in the forum that he was drinking alcohol while on tx. I am almost sure that played a big part in the non response to tx.
WHY take the chance? he should wait until the virus is gone, if abuse is not a problem.

[NYgirl]

You made me cry. You made me feel better about myself than I have in such a long time. i can't post anymore than this I need to go to the ladies room and clean up.

Thank you my friend - to fudgicles and friendship, I promise not to leave for at least another 32 weeks (because if I am clear when I get the PCR back I'll be doing another 36 hahahahah)

Seriously - I'll be here either way. Promise.

[Cougar2]

Thank you everyone for the comments. I wish he could understand and control the urge. I feel like nygirl that i would not want to take a chance, ever-ever.  We are so blessed that he is responding that I cannot believe he would risk it. (I would love the prayer by the way, thank you), I am afraid he needs it.  I keep trying but then I am the nag. I just wish he would think of his family and future more than a darn drink.  Thanks everyone.

[Forseegood]

UH OH! yet, "another" controversial question...I say controversial because you could make an argument that there are no hard and fast ways to go about this, nothing really definitive...and when it's an open question like this, docs and scientists will differ about it, as we will, as they have with this question...I do think docs, just like us, will make judgment calls on things like this...based on their own ideas and experiences....just like we do...cept they have more education to back up their "educated guesses."

To me, when it's an open ended question like this, and it involves your health in a very meaningful way...I always think it's best to err on the side of caution...IMHO

One has to realize that your body has just gone through an onslaught of chemo-therapy and interferon, for a lot of people for 48 weeks or more....it would make sense that the body would at least need 6 months to detox from all that, notwithstanding getting or not getting svr (and that's another whole conversation)...I have heard from too many people about interferon hangover, effects of post tx with all the many symptoms of that, etc...to me that's the body's way of detoxing from all those meds, (if it didn't, in fact, cause long term damage, hopefully, that's not the case) it's got to still be in the soft tissues, fat etc. for a long time after you finish, relatively speaking...

After having gone through all that business, why chance adding to the mix of toxins trying to leave your body by drinking? Why not wait for at least 6 months? If Cuteus was able to drink, even during tx (though of course she said she only a had a few drinks) that's her body, we don't all know that we will have the same result. Why risk it? Even a glass of 1953 Margaux wouldnt' be worth it to me, but that's just me...life is long (hopefully) and there will be time enough to have that occasional glass of wine or whatever...

As for anyone longing to drink (a lot) while they are on tx, and actually considering going through with it, I would imagine they have some kind of drinking problem (in most cases) because considering the magnitude of the situation you are in...with an impaired liver trying to fight a potentially life threatening virus with toxic chemotherapy that lasts as long as it does, and what youre worried about is being able to drink alcohol while youre on tx? I don't mean to sound harsh or judgmental, I just think there are obvious questions here, this situation is not something to play around with...I would consider seeking help with this issue cause it might be a wake-up call....

[Dale_Ray]

Bravo!!!

[Cougar2]

That was not harsh or judgmental but was honest. Thank you and I agree.  Houston---I think we have a problem.

[GoofyDad]

On this subject, I spoke to my hepatologist about an occaisional non-alcoholic beer on tx, and he wasn't in favor of it. He said there's a bit of alcohol, and we try so hard to gain every fothold towards success, why chance it? He feels it could potentially hamper the immune response. He didn't say it would hurt by any means, but he wants every chance for success.

I should add, he's generally pretty liberal on most things.

[cuteus]

cdg: I wanted to warn you that the first drink, should you choose to go for it, could hit you hard, especially if you don't wait for the meds to be completely gone from your system. One glass of wine might feel like ten. It could be the abstinence or the effect of the meds that causes it, just be careful.

cougar
yup, you always hear both camps, the nays and the ayes, if he has not even have his first negative PCR and is willing to chance jeopardizing his tx, something else is at work and he needs help.  I did not get a negative at 12 wks of tx, so I waited and was able to do so with no problems until the negative status arrived.  My hepatologist did not forbid alcohol in moderation. And that last word is the key to it. But if he is having such cravings, I would be worried. DId he mention this to his dr yet?

[jmjm530]

Trouble/relapse with drug addiction (and I imagine this includes alcohol) is a known side effect of the treatment drugs.

I'm going to stay away from the discussion regarding how much harm a drink here or there will do on treatment (or off) -- but I will say this --  If your husband has ever had ANY type of drinking or addiction problem, I would then treat his current craving for alcohol as a potentially serious side effect of the treatment drugs and have him discuss with his doctor ASAP. BTW I suggest Fiji water -- almost as expensive as a drink but a lot more liver friendly :)

-- Jim

[What Next]

Thank you all So much for your advice last night i didn't get to read it until now i fell asleep at the computer again and my husband put me in bed. I feel alittle better today but again shot day tonight so here i go again Lol I thinkit is weird how i always seem to feel better just before it all starts again well i will close for now thank you all so much i did not get to call anyone today i sleep all day again. maybe Monday.

[Bill1954]

Re: comment #33--Your response was particularly well thought through. A lot was said with very few words, my friend. Final shot night for me this evening, followed be a week of riba. I know you're close on it yourself, and wanted to offer my best wishes.

Keep in touch,

Bill

[jmjm530]

Speaking of being succinct, in spite of your self-described -- let's call it brain vacation -- I've always found your posts among the most intelligent and well written.

Bill, it's  been quite a journey hasn't it. LOL. I truly admire your fight early on, and your willingness to step up  when things initially didn't look so good.

Congratulations on your last shot tonight. You and your SVR will be in my prayers, and hopefully, in the not too distant future, you'll be sitting down with some of those books I know you love.

Yup. I'm pretty near the end myself, and thanks for your well wishes.

-- Jim

[Califia]

Well, damn!  Time sure flies when you're in. . . . purgatory.  This is just to say howdy, and warm congratulations on a long, hard run brought to the finish line.   Just wait until two days pass without any riba passing your lips--you'll be amazed and thrilled (or some semblance thereof) at how quickly the fog begins to lift and your eyes recover focus.  I, too, would like to stay in communication to swap some more tales about our months in the underworld.   Way to go, guy!

[NYgirl]

It's one of those subjects that is truly going to go by personal decision since there is not set answer right?

It's a matter of are you willing to take the chance or not? And it's interesting to see some say Yes some say No and nobody has an answer whatsoever.

As an alcoholic I know first hand...there is ALWAYS a way to say YES and while the harder answer is no...it's one most people will no take.

Will it damage or hurt SVR?  Don't know.

[Forseegood]

Please know that I really value your posts - youre a very witty guy and very intelligent, always like seeing your name here...but sometimes the best of friends can disagree once in awhile, and sometimes it's just that, you happily agree to disagee...

My doc actually pointed out Dr. Dietrich, (my docs on the net and loves it and he knows a lot of these hepatologists from conferences, my docs relatively famous in the field as well) as a doctor he very much disagrees with on this subject...two drinks a day is even a lot for a few women (since some women can't metabolize alcohol as well as most men) without ever having had hepatitis...and right after treatment that does sound a bit much...to me at least, although of course people are free to disagree...probably people have heard enough from me on this subject anyway, ha ha!

I guess it comes down to the fact (as I said previously) that with some open ended questions like this, we all have to weigh any info we have carefully, and make our own conclusions with our respective doctors...you might agree with me there...hope all is well with you and have a great weekend!

[Forseegood]

oh, I just re-read your post and I see that the person said six month post treating, didn't pick up on that before (forgive me, long day)...I still think that's a bit much but there you go...