another cocaine ? (you were all so helpful last time)

[beantown33]

Hi Everyone:

You were all very helpful the last time i posted a question...thank you very much.  I have a doctors appointment tomorrow and i'm planning on getting some blood tests done.  At this point, I just want to know but I still am unsure of the risks of contracting HCV through snorting cocaine...I've only used a couple of times but am still extremely nervous.  My questions are:

1) Did any of you ever have prolonged headaches for a whole week after using (it was a decent amount and i am relatively inexperienced)?

2) Can HIV be transmitted through snorting (if so I may get checked for that as well)?

3)Is there a good chance I contracted HCV from snorting and that is why i'm experiencing headaches, sleeplessness, some itching, some tingling etc.?

Thanks so much...I'd be going (even more) crazy if it wasn't for all of your help

3)

[mnkdrt]

I have never heard of anyone contracting HCV or HIV through snorting drugs. To be honest I would be shocked. Both of those are a blood to blood type virus (needle sharing...blood transfusion etc) well I guess HIV doesnt have to be blood to blood.
Now if I had to guess you are putting a chemical in your body that well is not very good for your body. Also you never know who put what in your cocaine.
My suggestion, stop putting cocaine in your body I would imagine with a regular healthy sleeping cycle and a good diet and the absence of DRUGS in your body you might feel a bit better.
MNKDRT

[mnkdrt]

lol..sorry, thought you mentioned HIV also.

[Califia]

Theoretically it IS possible, but an acute episode of Hep C would have occurred weeks later, not days later, and probably would have felt like the worst flu of your life.   Sounds like you're experiencing some toxicity.   Here's some advice your doctor will never give you: try flushing with large amounts of Vitamin C for several days, a few grams (to bowel tolerance) every four hours or so.

[Upbeat]

Wow
     It is well documented that snorting accounts for a large percentage of hcv transmission. When trying to determine how I got it and blood transfussion and needles were eliminated the next question asked by my liver doc was snorting.

                                                        Ron

[Bill1954]

Here’s some info re: HCV transmission via snorting coke-- I believe this may be from an older study, but I believe the facts still hold true. More info should be available through PubMed.

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Detection of hepatitis C virus in the nasal secretions of an intranasal drug-user.

McMahon JM, Simm M, Milano D, Clatts M.

Background One controversial source of infection for hepatitis C virus (HCV) involves the sharing of contaminated implements, such as straws or spoons, used to nasally inhale cocaine and other powdered drugs. An essential precondition for this mode of transmission is the presence of HCV in the nasal secretions of intranasal drug users. Methods Blood and nasal secretion samples were collected from five plasma-positive chronic intranasal drug users and tested for HCV RNA using RT-PCR. Results HCV was detected in all five blood samples and in the nasal secretions of the subject with the highest serum viral load. Conclusions This study is the first to demonstrate the presence of HCV in nasal secretions. This finding has implications for potential transmission of HCV through contact with contaminated nasal secretions.

PMID: 15132748 [PubMed]
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Hope this finds you well,

Bill

[sailinlady]

HCV is very likely to be contracted through snorting cocaine, or whatever is was.  Think about all the membranes in your nose and the likelihood of blood.  A tiny spec of blood on a staw may be passed from one person to another.

See:  http://www.pegasys.com/basics/spread.asp

You may not have the virus and it is too soon to know. Please make sure you do get checked and talk to your doctor about it.  Next time remember this is a possible form of transmission.  

There are many ways I could have been infected and snorting is one of them.

[mnkdrt]

hmm, I would have never known you could get hcv from snorting. After further reading as many as 10% of patients got it that way.
learn something every day.
When I did drugs I never felt like that for a week after a binge of cocaine. One time I stopped taking antidepressant cold turkey and got the symptoms you mentioned.

[Upbeat]

I think the more you search the more you will find information on this mode of transference.  I never had a blood transfusion and I never did any needles ever.  Either sex or the straw.  I suspect the straw more than I do the sex. I guess I will never know for sure.

                                                         Ron

[NYgirl]

The doctor has every single confidence in the world that this is EXACTLY HOW I CONTRACTED HCV.

I have had this disease for approximately 25 years. In the 80s I NEVER used a needle. I was a "rock star" (in my mind I guess) and we NEVER ran out of coke - when we did lovely "fans" gave us more more more to try and get close to us. I did a LOT and had a habit for at least 20 years.

The doctor fully believes that it is EASY for one person to use a straw..have microdroplets of blood (you know people who do coke have DREADFUL noses and just because you can't SEE the blood sure doesn't mean it's not there) and then hand off to the next person who snorts not only the coke BUT the HCV as well.  Since your nose is such a lovely moist warm bloodfilled place it's quite SIMPLE to transfer it that way.

I HAVE NO DOUBT THAT THIS IS HOW I GOT IT EITHER - IT IS COMPLETELY VERY POSSIBLE TO DO AND ANYONE WHO TELLS YOU IT IS NOT IS WRONG (sorry) but I am living proof.

I believe the reason doctors don't get this into the data that much is because people tend to PROGRESS in their heavy addiction and that generally means from SNORTING to SYRINGES - and of course if you say you've ever used a syringe they are going to figure that you got it that way and not bother asking about snorting.

They would have to find people who DID snort and NEVER used a needle to figure out exactly how many I suppose.

I think 10% is a light guess if you think of it my way and the fact that doctors are just coming to terms with this method.

[sailinlady]

http://www.ukcoalition.org/hepc/coke.htm

[NYgirl]

Calfia said:
an acute episode of Hep C would have occurred weeks later,


I NEVER had an acute bought of Hep and like a lot had no idea I had it at all until just this past year.

[sailinlady]

How are you doing?

[jmjm530]

Just to play devil's advocate here -- and please correct me if my failing memory is failing me again -- but didn't you post several months ago that your ex-husband/boyfriend was HCV positive and you only found out after you two broke up? If I were you, I'd put this at least as high -- if not higher -- on my list of transmission possiblities as non-IV drug use such as cocaine. I understand sexual transmission is low between monagamous couples but it still exists. The number one transmission route in the United States today is still IV drug use, followed by transfusions prior to blood screening. I believe unprotected sex probably follows but not sure.

Gosh. Between this thread and Mnk's (also about sex) -- better go take a cold shower now :)

-- Jim

[jmjm530]

Oh, there's also inter-household transmissions -- toothbrush, nail clippers, etc.

[NYgirl]

My exhusband not boyfriend... ;-)  but it's not a long enough time period for the figure.  I want to blame it on him more than ANYTHING in the world but no matter what I do...i can't stretch the darn years out that far no matter what I try LOL.

Heck I still blame it on him as far as anybody knows it's HIS fault. ;-)

[NYgirl]

It's much more likely that I got it the one way and not via a razor - have you ever REALLY heard of anybody who HONESTLY got it that way?  Nah. That blood would more than likely dry out - although the HCV can live outside the body it's a short time...


Face it I bet you can get it any countless ways they haven't thought up yet - but that one is too logical and it doesn't bother me to admit that I got it that way to you guys...to my parents heck I got it being married - end of story :)

[jmjm530]

Well, my ex's blame me for absolutely EVERYTHING including the thinning of the ozone layer. Think about it more -- and I'm sure you'll come up with a scenario where he could have given it to you :)

-- Jim

[jmjm530]

NY said: have you ever REALLY heard of anybody who HONESTLY got it that way?
-----------------------
Which way. Hmmm. I think I'd be encroaching on Can-Do's or Goofy's territory if I commented further.

-- Jim

[LvdByGod]

could be the headache is from sinus problems from the snorting of foriegn substances. i used to do drugs and coke was my drug of choice. whenever i used a bad quality of cocain i got intense nose and sinus reactions and severe headaches...

i'll bet this is whats going on with you...this on top of old fashioned fear induced stuff... this could be the sleep problem... your scared to death.

i'm sure you will never do drugs again (at least i hope and pray for you that you won't)...you seem too smart and consciencous for that...it was the dumbest thing i ever did and now my lifes at stake for it...

sandi

ps beantown, please keep us informed of your test results... go ahead and get tested for hepc and aids...it sure won't hurt you and it will give you peace of mind too... i'm sure your sleep will return after that and your sinus' will soon do better too... you may want an antibiotic for them... be sure to tell your dr the truth...they can handle it...

[beantown33]

Thanks I am going to the doctor tomorrow...I think this forum may have confirmed everything I read on the internet which many of you posted...I'll be sure to let you all know how it goes...Thanks!

[strator]

Okay beanman - I don't know if there's anyway they COULD document passing HCV through snorting, but it has always made sense to me. Like I said the first time you posted I thought nothing of wiping blood off a rolled bill or straw and snorting. More than once out in public people told me my nose was bleeding(i hadn't noticed cause I was so numbed from coke). Doesn't matter to me whether I got it from the one use of a shared needle, snorting, sex, hastily done stitches and plastic surgery from injuries or med procedures in the old days, boxing, bar fights or whatever.....In my case I MORE than likely got it because I lived a risky lifestyle. Look at it like this...Maybe it was the one use of a needle...okay Bean just suppose I used that needle, then never got high again, moved into a monastery and lived a sober clean serene life. Doesn't matter, I still participated in risky behaviour. Like You did. Course I also knew that with the assortment of drugs and drinking I did the next hit could always be tainted and kill me. But I did it anyways. So I'm not gonna tell ya here's the percentages of catching hep through snorting. Your concerned, get tested. If your're still getting high, stop or you'll drive yourself insane the next morning wondering if THIS time you caught something. If your gonna get high anyways, don't share needles, straws or anything else.
One last thought at one time my addiction took me to new levels...running a nightclub I started stealing money off the top, had been getting high for years but suddenly began to get the WORST headaches that would not go away, even from my own 'arsenal' of chemicals. THen one night I went to the owners of the club, fessed up, stopped stealing and made arrangements for restitution(did get fired)..BUT the headaches went away just like that. You've been here ac ouple of times about this and I iunderstand you are very worried. Maybe it's stress, or guilt causing the headaches. You aren't the first good person in this world that made questionable decisions once or a few times. When you wake up each day you can choose what risks you want to take to the best of your ability.
God Bless ya Beantown,
Don

[NYgirl]

Said: In my case I MORE than likely got it because I lived a risky lifestyle.




That is the most important statement of all and as long as we know that we have it...and try and fix it...it helps me feel as though I am atoning for the sins of youth (and I am GRATEFUL I know I have it after NOT KNOWING for so very long).

[FlGuy]

Hopefully you did not contract any disease. But, keep in mind that the coke that went up your nose was not pure. It was diluted with something which could include talcum powder, flour, salt, corn starch, baking powder or soda or who know's what else. It did not come to you from a pharmacy college graduate and was probably not FDA inspected or approved. You control what goes in.  Let's hope you head does not explode.

[GoofyDad]

<i>people tend to PROGRESS in their heavy addiction and that generally means from SNORTING to SYRINGES</i>

I would venture that the vast majority of people who took a whiff of blow never went on to to be IVDUs.

I would also guess that there are many, many more folks who did a little coke somewhere along the lines (sorry) than there are IVDUs.

Yet, IVDU is an obvious and certain mode of transmission, vs snorting which remains somewhat controversial. Apparently, if snorting is a mode, it is much, much less efficient than IVDU, and somewhat unlikely on a case by case basis.

I strongly suspect that there is an unidentified transmission route out there that makes up for so many undefined cases.

NYgirl, curious how you established that you've had HVC for 25 years?

[cajunlady]

When I was diagnoise, the chance, for me was my tatoo, or when I worked at a state school and help drained many, many, bloody boils from the patients there; in those days no gloves.  These patience were hep carriers and staff infection carriers.

BUT, NOW, since I have been in treatment and have seen and read many articles about risk factor, cocaine snorting and sharing of straws and dollar bills is always under that category.  I have never used intravenous drugs, BUT, let me tell you, I had many, many years of binges with snorting cocaine.  Today, I really think and truely believe that I contacted it from snorting. On those week long bindges, sometimes longer. I saw many people with severe nose bleeds and all of us had wide open nasals; raw, cut up, you get the picture. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what can be happening in your nose.  

  JUST MY POINT OF VIEW.  I am comfortable enough to say, I really think I contracted it through snorting.

[cajunlady]

I totally agree with you on no documentation of total proof.  I have search for that exact answer of "yes" it has been absolutely, positively to spreading hcv; and not yet.
I guess all that can come out of this ,lack of study and no positive answer is commom sense on the matter.

What makes me tend to believe that I contracted mine from snorting, is that there are two people in our group of friends that have died of HCV/complete liver failure, did not know they had hcv until then.  These two people partied many nights and weekends with us and I also, know for a fact that they, also, used intravenously. So, the more I look at this the more I am inclined to believe that, that is how I contracted it.  

It can only be an opinion or a feeling; until proof.  I also, agree with you on the dentist thing.  Scary thing, the dentist, just who is monitoring them, how close and how often.

[can-do-man]

Snorting coke??? But i like pepsi better

[cajunlady]

You are just too funny all the time.  I love it that you carry so much humor.  I have laughed and laughed many times over your humor.

PLEASE!  Stay the way you are and never change your humor.  It is inspiring for some of us on a bad day and then come in here and read your post.

KEEP IT UP,

cajun

[cajunlady]

I need to schedule appointments right now for my kids.  This scares the holy cr*p out of me.  But, what do you do let there teeth rott, or go purchase your own dental equiptment and take it with you on dentist appointments, just so you can feel safe about doing dental work.  That could get expensive.  I hate this catch 22 on the dental.

Thanks for the web site of info; I will now look that up.

cajun

[wMich]

A friend was a non-using dental tech in the service in Europe and contracted HCV from a patient. My quiet regular-Joe buddy got HCV one of the two times in his life he used (and shared) a needle. I was an IV drug using musician and addict for many years and more than likely got HCV from needle sharing.

The soldier/dental tech is one of the "innocents" that contracted HCV through no fault of his own, my quiet buddy made a bad choice, and I was outright f**ing reckless years ago. We are three very different HCV+ people who share a very common thread. Infected blood got into our bloodstreams. There seems to be enough shame and burden associated with having HCV that dwelling on how/where/why/when I got it is wasted energy, unless it leads to preventing future transmission.

HCV is described as being primarily a blood-borne pathogen. From what I've read the jury is still out regarding the serum levels of HCV in other bodily fluids and the real transmission rates associated with exposure to those. Though I don't think I got HCV from sharing coke straws myself, it seems possible that some people have. Given the bloody noses that can be part of heavy intra-nasal use and the immuno-supressed bodies of heavy users, it makes sense. The sheer numbers and close proximity of tiny blood vessels in the nasal area makes it an easy entry point for anything you might up there (i.e. cocaine, a tiny bit of HCV in a bloody straw or absorbent rolled-up dollar bill). Bloodborne doesn't necessarily mean needle. Yeah, beantown. If you have doubts, get tested for HIV too.   - Lee

[NYgirl]

Said
people tend to PROGRESS in their heavy addiction and that generally means from SNORTING to SYRINGES

I would venture that the vast majority of people who took a whiff of blow never went on to to be IVDUs.




As you can see I said heavily addicted - not just someone who used a few times in their teens or twenties.  I'm talking addict and here in New York well maybe I see it different but most of the people who had a heavy habit "graduated"...to syringes.  

But irregardless it's very easy and sensible to get it this way if you want it...just go out and snort with as many people as possible till you are lucky enough to run into one person who doesn't know they are infected!  ;-)

[HepCBoy]

>Up to 30% of those infected have no known risk factors, no drug use, no tattoo's, etc. so just how did they get it?

UK figures state that of those with Hep C who answered 80% admitted IV drug abuse. A recent Austrailian study put the figure at 90%. Add in roughly 10% [in the UK] via blood transfusions and then known moderate risk areas like tatoos and snorting and you have a small % who claim to have had no risk factors. Add in sex, very low risk but lots of potential exposure, and you can't be that far short 100%.

[NYgirl]

PS The doctors here in New York - perhaps having a bigger base of us druggies to look at - seem to have no problem at all stating that its definitely possible and likely to come from snorting.

Since there is no other way I can have it for this long without it I'd venture to say it's true.

When I think of each person I snorted with and magnify THAT by the number of people THEY snorted with it well just snowballs into what hundreds of thousands of people in a lifetime sharing snot?  LOL.

I was such a smart important person in my 20s my my yes.

But luckily I didn't use IVDs yet because ten of my friends (that I know of) died of HIV in the same two years. When I look at it like that...hep isn't the worst thing.

[NYgirl]

Hepatitis C Symptoms - Hepatitis C Treatments - Hepatitis C ...Snorting cocaine through the use of a shared straw or bill is a major source of transmittal today, through broken ...  

www.hepatitiscsymptom.com/

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But increasingly it is also being spread by "social" drug use such as snorting cocaine. Straws used to snort cocaine are often passed around and may become ...
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... government statistics suggest that more people are using cocaine (coke, charlie, ... Snorting cocaine can damage the membrane between the nostrils, ...
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Other risk factors include IV drug use, snorting cocaine, needle-stick ... Recent studies have shown that HCV can survive outside the body and still ...




For one. There are LOADS and LOADS of articles - please don't anybody think it's not possible and say to themselves well since it's not possible I might as well.....cause that is the way my brain works once I hear I can't drink I'm thinking.......  ;-)

[lionesss]

Household transmission risk is extremely low.  Don't forget all those people overseas who got HCV through mass immunisations.

[giddyup]

Sometimes when you snort drugs you can get a sinus headache because your filling up your nose with a substance.I seriously doubt you have gotten hep c from your coke use.Relax and get tested.I know that people have snorted lots of coke for many years and did not contact hcv.

[FlGuy]

You've had an interesting life.  You should add writing to your wide and diverse talents.