brian fog what causes it?

I have been experiencing brain fog or as I call it sometimers, Is there a relatonship with hep/fibro ? I have also been having cronic (chronic) migraines that last up to a week even with medication that reduces but doesn't get ride of. I didn't experience them while on treatment,but now I have 1 to 3 a month. Any relationship?

[52TELE]

Hi spzyq2 , I went to college with a guy named spzyq3. Any relation?
No one can actually explain in scientific terms what causes the brain fog we all feel , other than "its the medication" , and "everyones different" . So I'll give it a try. Here is what I think ,but I could be wrong.

Brain Fog:
When the cool wet Interferon collides with the warm and dry Ribavirin in the center of your head  ,the surrounding brain matter reaches saturation and a fog develops.
The "Fog" has also been described as "A conspicuous absence of thought" , kind of like "The deafening roar of silence".

Sorry I dont have a better answer...

[OnAPrettyPoison]

I think it is all the poison we are pumping in the body - what kills the bad also kills the good!  My two cents....

[rochammer]

spzyq2

Wish I had an answer for you it

[Eyedeas]

Hepatic Encephalopathy
Increased levels of amonia (ammonia) causes the brain fog.

Encephalopathy is a general name for brain dysfunction, which may be cause by factors including infectious
diseases and toxins. (Bovine spongiform encephalopathy, or mad cow disease, has been in the news lately,
as has encephalitis due to West Nile virus.) Chronic hepatitis C patients with advanced liver disease may
develop hepatic encephalopathy, also called portal-systemic encephalopathy. This condition occurs when a
heavily damaged liver is unable to filter toxins from the blood or when blood flow through the liver is blocked.
The condition may occur in people with either acute fulminant hepatitis or long-term chronic liver disease.
Few patients with chronic hepatitis C develop full-blown hepatic encephalopathy; however, some degree of
brain impairment may occur in as many as three-quarters of those (estimated at 10-25 percent) who develop
advanced liver cirrhosis. Hepatic encephalopathy is distinct from the more common

[jmjm530]

Thanks for the clarification and it appears that successfully treatment helps cognitive funtioning although future studies were suggested. This is encouraging. However, I still throw out the possiblity of study participants understating prior alcohol use, depression, and especially IV drug use, for all the usual reasons.

And, of course, the usual disclaimer of this study (and really just about any study) that we always should keep in mind:

"Further research to confirm these observations in larger numbers of patients and in all possible etiologies of chronic liver disease is needed so that treatment options can be identified and tested. Future research also could address predictors of cognitive impairment in HCV patients, as well as the effect of antiviral therapy on cognitive functioning."
-------------
In any event, it does make me reconsider my own theory that brian fog is caused by someone named Brian. Wonder if I could get the some FDA funding to pursue that one.

[amirtracy]

you've been really funny lately jim. :)

[can-do-man]

says........Brian fog no doubt is caused by a fellow named Brian and if we can just rid ourselves of this pesky Brian fellow then all of our problems should go away and I just might remember that my socks go on before my shoes.........

Don't buy it jim. Too many Doctors and not one has told me Brian was to blame. BTW, Whats wrong with putting your socks on over your shoes?

[jmjm530]

Obviously, you're being treated by Dr. Brien, himself. Snap out of it man, smell the roses or at least the strawberry ice cream, and if you're going to go sock over shoe, just make sure your socks match your underpants, which I assume you wear over your jeans.

[can-do-man]

Nope that Doctor is now under tx. And Matching socks? Whats that? Wife wouldn't allow it. And of course i wear my boxers over my pants. Easier to change, Don't have to take my shoes or pants off........Jeez.........

[cuteus]

spz is not on the meds, so that can't be it. there is a study out there that found cognitive dysfunction associated with hep c infection:
"At DDW, Ludwig Kramer and a research group from the University of Austria, reported that "cognitive processing was subclinically impaired in patients as compared to healthy subjects". They studied the impact of HCV infection on sensitive markers of cognitive brain function. Fifty-eight noncirrhotic patients with chronic HCV infection (age, 45

[GrandOak]

I actually like 52tele's definition.

It also explains RibaRage as the inferno which builds from the warm and dry Ribavirin raging unchecked in the brain between the fire droppings of cool wet Interferon.

[jmjm530]

Not sure if comparing a hep c population to a "healthy" in terms of cognitive function results in conclusive data. For example -- and there are other examples -- the Hep C population no doubt has a larger share of IV drug users and possibly even alcoholics. Both of which could account for lower cognitive function, irrespective of Hep C.

All I know is that I never forgot my phone number and other simple stuff prior to treatment and now I do. Also heard this from others. Hopefully this is temporary as I make a living from writing  not to mention how many times a day I find it necessary to call myself on the phone.

-- Jim

[cuteus]

they addressed the IV users and such in the study. Plus the last one involves MRS of the brain and changes observed.

"Depression, fatigue, and history of intravenous drug use (IVDU) could not account for the group differences in cognitive functioning. However, patients who had cleared the HCV infection with treatment did not show these neuroimaging abnormalities."

[jmjm530]

"brian fog what causes it?"
----------------------------

This question has eluded us (as well as most of science) since the begininnig of time, or at least the beginning of peg and riba time.

But the way "spzyq" asked his question, gives us a clue, more than that, really.

Brian fog no doubt is caused by a fellow named Brian and if we can just rid ourselves of this pesky Brian fellow then all of our problems should go away and I just might remember that my socks go on before my shoes.

So the next time you see Brian -- any Brian will do -- tell him to cut it out with the fog stuff.


-- Jim

[Mister beagle bailey]

Glad your feeling so better, I am too.  I'm 2 weeks off tx.  I missed the story about the tarts...

Beagle :)

[cuteus]

top hepatologists I consulted did not mention Brian, but we can never find complete agreement in the medical community. THe brian issue seems anecdotal to me.

CDM if Madonna can wear her bra over her shirt, I see no reason why we can't wear socks over shoes.

amirtracy "you've been really funny lately jim. :)"
I was going to mention the same the other day. he must be feeling better and better. Maybe he can be the last comic standing?
a couple of yrs back, I suggested we do a hep c comic night in NYC or so, I bet we can bring the house down with our stories!



There used to be a member here, Ganine, who did comedy in the city, and it included hep c. I wonder if she still does. I hope she is well.

[MissMiss]

I love how so many are able to make light of brain fog.  Sort of helps put it in perspective a bit.  Good to know we can joke about it between us.

I have had this dragon for over 38 years.  During that time I never saw the same doctor twice except for the last 7-8 years.  Complaining of what we now call brain fog led me nowhere.  I began to notice it only a few years after I suspect I contracted it, along with severe fatigue and other fleeting things like leg pain.  That being said, I was also going through puberty, for what that is worth.  I was also a very active farm girl.

My grades went way down in school, my memory could only handle maybe three things at once and the exhaustion made it even worse.  Most people here haven't voiced this happening to them but it did for me.  It was hard knowing things weren't right but not one door to knock on for help.  Nobody knew much about this back then anyway.

It's a relief finally knowing and that I have some hope of clearing this demon.  I am 41/48 tonight, 1b.  I have high hopes of my memory returning and energy to dance the night away!  ( I used to nurse a Coke all night long, dancing and watching everyone else make drunken fools of themselves.  What Fun!)

Just wanted to round out the brain fog experience with everyone elses.

miss

[jmjm530]

The brian issue seems anecdotal to me.
-----------------------------------------------
Study data has been mysteriously lost or suppressed. Hepatologists have been muzzled. From fifty miles above the earth, the words
B R I A N have been seen etched on the Antartic Ice Cap. Humpback whales say his name while breeching. Do you really think Oswald worked alone? Is it coincidence that "Nairb" (brian spelled backward)was gatekeepr to King Tut's tomb? C'mon folks, smell the riba, Brian Fog is for real.

-

[52TELE]

Sometimes I sit and think , sometimes I just sit.

Love ,

Brian

[spzyq2]

oops! Brain and or Brian like I said I've got it , go fish huh! Thanks for the laugh,besides if we can't have a good one at our own expense what is a life without laughter!

[jmjm530]

Brian,

It's about time you revealed yourself. Hopefully you will turn down your fog machine from time to time. BTW do you happen to know where I put my keys?

[MissMiss]

I bet you're the one that left that bag of roast beef beside my bed for so long, aren't ya?

[cuteus]

I love having someone to blame things on!

Brian did it! HE left my iron on for a day, and did not change the bedding in the rabbit's cage! Brian, You're fired!

[can-do-man]

JEEZ Goof, in the winter that icecream is cold, so i also where socks on my hands to.

[52TELE]

You know , that in Monty Pythons 1979 box office hit "The Life of Brian" , Jesus's name was actually "Brian".
Coincidence?  I dont think so.

[Algernon]

Just read this entire thread and you guys should feel good about your brains.  You gotta be smart to be funny and you guys are way funny.

Now that I'm 3 weeks drugfree, I was feeling increasingly brilliant until I left the sugar out of the lemon tart yesterday (did I tell that story already--can't remember).

Met a fellow TX guy at my doc's office.  He crashed TWO cars on TX (so far).

Brian bless each and everyone of you.

[GoofyDad]

How long do you bake your tarts? I like mine quite saucey, but just a little bit firm. Hot too.

[beamishboy]

hot,saucey and firm-my,my, some folks are most definately feeling their oats

[GoofyDad]

Glad to see you're back to wearing those socks on your feet! After all Summer is here, right? But don't you find lugging those ice cream tubs around can have a certain 'chilling effect'? Remember, Tom Jones said he owed much of his success to a properly positioned sock..... might be a way to put a rise in those dairy orders...

[anise]

I am so glad you guys are feeling better off treatment.  I have 5 weeks to go and I can't wait until I feel better.  Summer is here and I find I am tired, etc.