fluvastin...statins...second part of document

How Statins Harm the Brain
When you really think about it, it’s obvious that these drugs would adversely affect cognition. Your brain contains an abundance of cholesterol, much of it in the myelin sheaths that insulate the neurons and speed up nerve conduction. Recent research reveals that cholesterol is also required for the formation of synapses, the areas between neurons where nerve impulses are transmitted and received. In fact, cholesterol is so important that it is manufactured by the glial cells in the supportive tissues of the brain.

Curbing synthesis of such a crucial compound has an inevitable downside. Suicide and violent behavior have long been linked to very low cholesterol levels. Now, data from the ongoing Framingham Heart Study demonstrates that older people with low total cholesterol (under 200) are much more likely to perform poorly on tests of mental function than those with high cholesterol (over 240).

These drugs harm the brain in other ways as well. As you may know, the enzyme pathway that statins disrupt in order to suppress cholesterol production is also involved in the synthesis of coenzyme Q10, which is required for energy production in the mitochondria of the cells. When you block that enzyme, cholesterol goes down, but so does CoQ10—by as much as 50 percent in some patients!

Low CoQ10 Levels = Bad News
The brain, heart, and skeletal muscles are the body’s most voracious consumers of energy, and it’s only natural that these are the systems most acutely affected by inadequate stores of CoQ10. Deficiencies in this essential compound are known to
More Reasons Not to Take Statins
Besides their serious side effects—cognitive problems, muscle pain and weakness, fatigue, liver damage, and even heart failure—these drugs are just not all that helpful. Yes, they lower cholesterol, but lowering cholesterol should not be an end in itself; rather, it should be a means of reducing risk of heart attack and death from heart disease. In this regard, statins fail miserably.

Not a single study shows that statins are beneficial for women. Not one! The largest randomized clinical trial of statins in women found that those who took Lipitor actually had 10 percent more heart attacks than women taking a placebo. Nor is there any research suggesting that these drugs prevent heart attacks or extend life for anyone over age 70—women or men—including those at high risk of heart disease.

[jmjm530]

To help balance this topic out, here is the Mayo Clinic's take on statins and memory loss:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/statin-drugs/AN01116

"Rare cases of memory loss have been reported in people taking cholesterol-lowering statin drugs, such as Lipitor. But these reports were anecdotal and have not been substantiated by formal testing of cognitive function. In most of these cases, memory improved after the individuals stopped taking the statins. However, it's not clear whether the statin drugs caused the memory loss.

Although some studies suggest that statin drugs may actually reduce the risk of dementia, two large studies examining the potential health benefits of cholesterol-reducing medications found no effect on cognitive function from statins.

Keep in mind that any potential risk of memory loss from statins is very low compared with the proven benefits of statins in preventing heart attack and stroke. If you take statins and notice any changes in your memory, discuss your concerns with your doctor."

----------------
To me at least, the key sentence is "Keep in mind that any potential risk of memory loss from statins is very low compared with the proven benefits of statins in preventing heart attack and stroke."

Also, it should be noted that the author of the article cited, Dr. Julian Whitaker, cites no studies on his thesis that statins impair memory, but only presents anecdotal evidence. It should also be noted that Dr. Whitaker operates an alternative medical web sites that sells vitamins and supplements to lower cholesterol, as well as alternative vitamins and supplements for other diseases. http://www.drwhitaker.com/

This is not a criticism of either Dr. Whitaker or his website --  I'll let people who are interested visit the site and come to their own conclusions -- but again, just trying to give things a perspective.

On a personal note, I am struggling with the decision right now to go on statins or not, and would be remiss to admit that I do not have concerns such as mentioned by Dr. Whitaker. However, in researching these concerns out over the past year, I too have come to the conclusion that nothing conclusive exists, and therefore i will follow the Mayo Clinic's recommendation and weigh the small risk of memory loss against the benefits of statin therapy for someone like myself who has a number of cardiac risk factors. My guess is that I will be on statins within the year.

-- Jim

[copyman]

as you know jim i have the same decision to make as you regarding taking a statin. i was advised by my PCP to start a statin as i have risk factors. i have put it off instead trying diet, exercise, etc first. i just do not want to have to take them the rest of my life as i heard once you start them your liver becomes dependent on them. i will have to see what happens in the next six months.

[jmjm530]

Never heard that you liver becomes dependent on them. In fact, I was old I could go on and off of them if I wanted. Where did you get that info?

[Hepatitis Researcher]

The level of Q10 can be conveniently measured before and during a statin therapy. Then you can supplement it to the right level, monitoring the effect.  Furthermore, some of the other cholesterol dependent synthetic pathways for steroids might also be affectedby statin blockage. But there is also a solution,  you can measure the levels of pregnenolone before and during statin therapy and compensate by a supplement until the level is normal/prestatin again. Pregnenolone is the precursor to most steroid hormones.

[copyman]

jim, i was told by my nephew who is a drug rep for one of the statins and he told me that if you are on them for years and then stop your cholesterol will sky rocket because of the dependency.  this info comes from inside the drug company as a known fact. probably something they would rather not like to become well known :-)

HR, as usual very interesting stuff. thanks

[Hepatitis Researcher]

Stopping statins will likely increase the cardiovascular risks for a limited time above the prestatin background, but not in the long run.
here is a relevant review re the short rerm problems:

Pharmacotherapy. 2006 Sep;26(9):1288-96.

Statin withdrawal: clinical implications and molecular mechanisms.

Cubeddu LX, Seamon MJ.

Department of Pharmaceutical and Administrative Sciences, College of Pharmacy,
Health Professions Division, Nova Southeastern University, Fort Lauderdale,
Florida 33328, USA. ***@****

Retrospective analyses of data from the Platelet Receptor Inhibition in Ischemic
Syndrome Management (PRISM), the National Registry of Myocardial Infarction 4,
and the Global Registry of Acute Coronary Events (GRACE) trials revealed that the
benefits of 3-hydroxy-3-methylglutaryl coenzyme A reductase inhibitors (statins)
on acute coronary outcomes are rapidly lost and outcomes worsened if statins are
discontinued during a patient's hospitalization for an acute coronary syndrome.
Withdrawal of statin therapy in the first 24 hours of hospitalization for
non-ST-elevation myocardial infarction increased the hospital morbidity and
mortality rate versus continued therapy (11.9% vs 5.7%, p<0.01). Data from the
Treating New Targets (TNT) study, however, suggested that short-term
discontinuation of statin therapy in patients with stable cardiac conditions may
not substantially increase the risk of acute coronary syndromes. In patients with
acute coronary syndromes who discontinue statins, the rapid increase in risk of
an event may result not only from the lost benefits from the therapy, but also
from rebound inhibition of vascular protective substances and activation of
vascular deleterious substances. Statins inhibit cholesterol synthesis in
vascular cells. By reducing levels of isoprenoid intermediates, statins increase
the production of nitric oxide and downregulate angiotensin II AT(1) receptors,
endothelin-1, vascular inflammatory adhesion molecules, and inflammatory
cytokines. These benefits are rapidly lost and often transiently reversed when
statins are acutely discontinued. Acute removal of pleiotropic effects and
rebound vascular dysfunction may be more important in an acute coronary event,
where inflammation promotes rupture of atherosclerotic plaques and inflammatory
and prothrombosis markers are present in high concentration, than in stable
chronic vascular disease. In the absence of data from randomized controlled
trials, current information suggests that statin therapy should be continued, and
possibly boosted, during hospitalization for an acute coronary syndrome. Because
statins are discontinued during the early hospitalization of many patients,
practitioners must ensure that statins are not omitted, unless contraindicated,
from the treatment of patients with acute coronary syndromes.

[lanier]

Just for your information it's NOT  a HIM, it's a HER regarding the doctor.  and I can't believe you even mentioned dementia in the sentence the way you did.  do some reading about the dementia "tree" and the interesting apples that fall under it.  And as for your comments about theis FEMALE doctor "selling" supplements.  WOW is it a surprise to you that docotr's do expect to make money and possibly even profit from their education?  I can't name one who livesin a duples and drives a mercury, with the debt most encured in getting their education, you might consider allowing them to profit from their knowledge and all those years of working shifts that would kill the "average" man. LOL
Lanier

[lanier]

Stopping statins will likely increase the cardiovascular risks for a limited time above the prestatin background, but not in the long run.
here is a relevant review re the short rerm problems:

RIGHT ON!!  how long does "limted" equal, is it a case by case or is their a statiscal base to be used here, it seems the threshold physiology is changed, but how long would it take for a middle aged to elderly persons body to re-regulate? Interesting

[jmjm530]

Lanier: Just for your information it's NOT  a HIM, it's a HER regarding the doctor.
----------------------------
You are incorrect, at least according to the Dr's Website, where the exerpted passage you quoted came from:

"JULIAN WHITAKER, MD, graduated from Dartmouth College and received his medical training at Emory University Medical School. HE (captial lettters mine) is a member of the American Medical Association and is board certified in anti-aging medicine.

source: (http://whitakerwellness.com/about_us/medical_team/)

If Dr. Whitaker's website has made a mistake, you probably should notify them and also suggest a more feminine picture as Dr. Whitaker also looks very much like a man from the picture.
------------------------------------
Lanier: "..and I can't believe you even mentioned dementia in the sentence the way you did.  do some reading about the dementia "tree" and the interesting apples that fall under it..."
--------------------------

I think you should take that up with the Mayo Clinic because they wrote that senence(s), not me, and I made that perfectly clear by using quote marks, not to mention referencing it  clearly in my first sentence, as well as providing a source link for the quote. Something which you btw fail to do, i.e. provide source links to your material.

---------------------------------------------------------

[jmjm530]

To be precise, your quoted material on statins did not come from Dr. Whitaker's site, but from this site here http://www.virginiahopkinstestkits.com/whitakerstatins.html
that attributes the article to Dr. Whitaker and then provides a link to Dr. Whitaker's site. This site also references the Dr. as a "he".

[copyman]

"WOW is it a surprise to you that docotr's do expect to make money and possibly even profit from their education?  I can't name one who livesin a duples and drives a mercury, with the debt most encured in getting their education, you might consider allowing them to profit from their knowledge and all those years of working shifts that would kill the "average" man. LOL"
_______________________________________________

i know one doctor that helps many people without trying to sell anything........he is right here on this forum, hepatitisresearcher

i have found that most websites that start out with what looks like they are trying to help you then at the end try and sell you something is all snake oil products and a FRAUD! MOST just taking advantage of sick people that have no where else to turn.




  

[jmjm530]

Lanier:  I can't name one (doctor) who living a duplex and drives a mercury...
------------------------------------------
As someone who knows, socializes with, and has dated doctor(s), I really don't think a pity party is in order regarding their finances. But you are correct, the ones I know drive BMW's, not Mercurys.

Top Paying Jobs Overall
# Physicians and surgeons — $147,000
# Aircraft pilots — $133,500
# Chief executives — $116,000
# Electrical and electronic engineers — $112,000
# Lawyers and judges — $99,800
# Dentists — $90,000
# Pharmacists — $85,500

http://www.whenpenguinsattack.com/2006/11/24/highest-paying-jobs-in-the-us/

[lanier]

I did not use any web page to give my input, because it did not come from any such place.  It came from working with elderly frail Alzheimer's and other clients who fall under the dementia tree.  from documenting and assessing them from when they just seem jolly and forgetfull to when they forget how to swallow and fade away to the next place.

I would say if the Mayo clinic put this on a document they were speaking of a otherwise healthy most likely male person with no hyper tension, or parkinsons or diabetes and anything that required medication.  there are many healthy guys and girls who just have a heridity to high choloesterol, I don't think that group applies to anyone on this forum, most people here have something else to go along with their hcv.  

I would never try to out quote you or give web pages, I am an illiterate next to you.  I did not mean the facts I stated in the context of what you did, that's the sum total I think.

The Whitaker I was speaking of is a female.  I can only say that without quotes also.
regards
Lanier

[lanier]

Well jim

I just saw your income numbers.  I hate to tell you I made over 100k in the emergency room.  I also know not one Doctor who makes only 147k, maybe if they were trained in Mexico (smile now)  I know airtraffic controllers who make 140k.  I know 3 attorneys here in fort lauderdale who make close to 300k.  I think these numbers if from a web page need an update.  

Not trying to upset you or have bad tone.  just telling you without quotes.  Now I bet forseegood, who lives in California can give you same even bigger numbers for incomes.  I worked in Colorado, and it seems the further West you go in healthcare money tree gets even bigger.  no pages or quotes just from my paystubs

regards
Lanier

[jmjm530]

Lanier: The Whitaker I was speaking of is a female.
--------------------------------------------------------

I must correct you again.

The material you originally posted on statins, IS from Dr. Whitaker per the links I posted earlier AND that same Dr. Whitaker IS a male, per the links I posted, including HIS picture. (Is there a reason you would post a quote from a male Dr. Whitaker, but then say "The Whitaker I was speaking of is a female". I would like to hear that explanation :)

Lanier:  "I did not use any web page to give my input"
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tthen why is it that your post on stains is VERBATIM from this web page?  http://www.virginiahopkinstestkits.com/whitakerstatins.html

And why is it that your post on ribavirin is VERBATIM from this web page?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribavirin

[JRenquist]

Time out! I don't know how this thread started - why you are discussing taking statins - but just thought I'd throw this in.  Could you take zetia instead?  It works outside of the liver.  Okay - you can go back to your arguing now.

[jmjm530]

Before you call a "Time Out", you might want to take the time and find out what is actually being discussed. Some statements were made regarding statins -- an important topic -- that I am trying to put in perspective via a Mayo Clinic Article, as well as clear up some issues as to the authorship of the article posted by Lanier. On the other hand, if you feel that obviously incorrect information (please read the entire thread and source threads) should stand, then I guess I am "arguing".

Don't know much about Zeita, so really can't comment. Sorry about my tone, but I think if you take the time to read what this is all about, you will see that it's not arguing but again, correcting some facts.

-- Jim

[mremeet]

Wow lanier thanks for all that original, uncited, "unquoted" text you wrote and presented as you're own thoughts above.

[JRenquist]

I put in the "time out"  mainly because I was saying something that didn't have anything to do with what you all were talking about.  I did read this thread , but it seemed to be a continuation of something you had been discussing earlier.  Didn't mean to offend. I admit to just focusing on the things that affect me here, but I have great respect for what you have said previously; you seem very knowledgeable  and practical.  Sorry.

[dointime]

Jim - thanks for your efforts here to maintain accuracy and credibility of information on this forum.  I feel sorry that your valuable time has had to be used in this way.  

Lanier, I don't know if your acts of sabotage are intentionally malicious or unconsciously destructive but I really wish they would stop.  There's a lot of sick people here who really need and depend on this forum.  It's a fragile community where we struggle independently and collectively for life.  Most people have bigger issues to deal with than the sex of the doctor being quoted.

dointime      

[jmjm530]

I think I should be the one to say "sorry". A little rush to judgment on my part. So, sorry.

Doin, Thanks, yeah, wish I could have just posted the Mayo article and be done with it. Statins are a big issue/decision with many of us, so it's important that all points of view are aired.

Lanier, Not trying to give you a hard time, I simply wanted to post an article to give perspective to your original post about statins. People can make up their own minds but it helps to give a reference (citation) for quoted material, unless they are your own words. As to the "he/she" thing, I couldn't give a hoot, except that you made it an issue in your post to me.

-- Jim

[lanier]

I thank you for trying to keep one more of the masses from attacking me when I meant no harm and all I can say is lets drop the boy/girl thing.  I went to a seminar in 2003  where I met a Dr Whitaker, and if I'm making a misquote and there is another one, I promise it was not with malice, I saw the article on the internet which I have already gave you the best of the best compared to me.  I ask to be excused.

as for the Doin-time I am going to do as something I often do not do with regards to the like of people in your catergory and say nothing, but best of luck to you I am as "sick" if not sicker than you, then only thing you have on me is 7 years.

Lanier

[Lonestar823]

I'm not really sure where the origins of this post began.  This must be some continuation of another thread I've missed or something.  Originally I wasn't going to read it.  I don't know why, I just didn't feel like it I guess.  I'm house bound today because of a big fat nor'easter.  So it's a day of running outside to shovel, running back inside to warm by my fire then out again to shovel some more.  Now I'm worn out and have clicked on to see how everyone is doing.  Four of my brothers take lipitor.  My mother does too.  The oldest brother is a design engineer.  Three others work for him at a business they own together.  I'm not sure what they design really.  I'm female and not that mechanically inclined.  All I know is they have pages and pages of designs, some huge ones on paper printed in blue and thousands of others designed on computers.  The oldest brother runs around solving mathematical problems and always has fifteen pens and pencils in his pockets.  The others read the strange script and look at the drawings and go out into this huge cavernous shop where machines stand that are bigger than dinosaurs. ; ]  There they study the prints and build, piece by intricate piece, machines that do some chore for another factory.  They are so big and intricate that huge trucks with 18 wheels roll into my brother's shop with cranes to load what they've built on or into a long trailer.  It get's belted down, checked and rechecked a hundred times, papers are signed and then the truck rolls out and brings the dinosaurs somewhere where they are then shipped all over the world.  
Sometimes in late evening after a particularly difficult job goes out these brothers show up at my mother's house so they can brag to her about what they've accomplished.  She's very frail physically but there's nothing wrong with her noggin.  Her father was a math professor and so she understands this mathematical lingo she speaks with my lipitor brothers.  I don't take lipitor.  Neither do three of my younger brothers.  Apparently this particular side effect hasn't struck my lipitor brothers or my mother yet.  Something happened to the rest of us though 'cause we non lipitor siblings sit with our eyes glazed over and our mouths open when the lipitor side of the family speaks. ; ]

[lanier]

That is so great, You come from a strong lot.  There is a part one to this long, long statin thread, who knows where and it does not matter to your blood line anyway.  how old is your Mom, if I might ask and does she take any other meds for anything?  I have known a few females who lived to be , well the oldest 104 and as sharp as a tack, so its out there.  statins or not, genetic make up, you need to have seven children and pass on that line.  thanks for the positive information.

Lanier

[JRenquist]

Here's an ad from the zetia website.  Just thought it might be an alternative to the statins.  My doctor put me on it specifically because of the HCV, because it diesn't go through the liver.  Not sure if it works as well or would deal with the problem the statins were meant to deal with.
  
ZETIA works differently. The most-common cholesterol-lowering medicines, statins, are a good option. They work mainly with the liver. Not ZETIA. It works in the digestive tract, like some other medicines. But ZETIA is unique in the way it helps block the absorption of cholesterol that comes from food. Unlike some statins, ZETIA has not been shown to prevent heart disease or heart attacks.

ZETIA complements what you are already doing—whether it’s diet and exercise alone or also taking a statin.

[Tallahassee]

Lonestar,

I really like your story and writing stile .....

Lonestar: "Apparently this particular side effect hasn't struck my lipitor brothers or my mother yet.  Something happened to the rest of us though 'cause we non lipitor siblings sit with our
eye glazed over and our mouths open when the lipitor side of the family speaks. ; ] "

Thank you!
Have a great day!   (BTW, I'm an engineer ... but I don't take statins ... may be I should start taking it?? :-))

Your friend, Tall

[Lonestar823]

Tall, Quite delighted to have made you smile.  ; ]  You have a great day too!

Your,
Lonestar