hepc and sex

[pariah127]

help ihave just found out that a woman i have known for yrs likes me as much as i like her as a matter of fact i think i have loved her for yrs and didnt know it and i just found out she feels the same way unfortunately i have been diagnosed with hep c and dont know wht to tell her i also dont want to in fect her plz help

    

[pariah127]

SHE IS IN  THE RECCOVERY FIELD AND IS WELL VERSED ON HEPC
YET IS STILL CONVINCED THAT IT CAN BE TRANSMITTED BY KISSING AND OR SEX    IM SO AFRAID TO TELL HER  THAT ITS KILLING ME. AND I DONT WANT TO LOSE HER CAN SOMEONE PLEASE INFORM ME ON WHT I CAN DO  INEED TO BE HONEST  AND I'M AFRAID IF I DO SHE'LL SHUN ME

[jmjm530]

I would collect some information on the internet by googling "sexual transmission hepatitis c". Print it out and have it well organized to present to her at the appropriate time. You might also want to put in a call to your doctor and ask him/her if it's OK that your friend calls them. You will also find some threads here, like the one I linked, that you might also want to print out. Then, when the time is right -- and I wouldn't wait very long if you think this is a serious relationship -- you should sit down and tell her, then give her all the information to look over. Also be prepared from a range of reactions from being very understanding to walking out the door. Just make sure that if she walks out the door, she walks out with the materials you have collected. In the end, it's going to be her decision regarding the sex. Condoms certainly are a reasonable option and would make it virtually impossible for her to get infected. As far as kissing is concerned, this is extremely unlikely unless both of you had open sores and or bleeding, and even so not sure if it would be possible. Again, educating her is the best approach. If that doesn't work, maybe she isn't the right one after all.

Good luck and do let us know how it all works out.

-- Jim

PS I'm sure we'll hear from some of the women who no doubt will have a better take from the woman's point of view.

[Myown]

This is a tough situation and I feel for you, but let me start by saying this,, anybody can find a healthy person to have sex with, so logic would say 'Why should I have sex with a person with hep c?" The answer to this I believe is that she needs to be head over heels in love with you before you tell her, in order to help raise the chance of her staying with you. Afterall our spouses didn't leave us, why? Because they are in love already, too late to turn back or walk away.

Think of it this way. If you were dating a woman who had a disease(not hep) that may someday make her very dependent on you,if she told you the first date or early on, possibly you would leave her, maybe not, but you might. BUT,if you were dating for a while (no sex) and all of a sudden you are falling madly in love and then one night she sits you down and says "I have to tell you something," once she tells you, because you love her, it probably won't matter and you may even feel even more affection for her because you feel sorry she had carried this burden of worrying about telling you.

Okay, not like that is something that is a blood borne disease, but I am trying to make the point that if you love someone, NOTHING should matter.

Build the friendship first. When you do eventually tell her, let her know how afraid you were to tell her and that fear of rejection was the only reason you didn't let her know from early on. She will trust you more  that you didn't have sex with her due to your 'respect of her interpretation' of how Hep is transmitted(though you disagree with her about transmission.)
I feel that if you have sex and tell her after sex, you will never see her again.(going by the little you mentioned about her)
Wish you the best.

[milomusik]

Honesty is the best policy. In my experiennce with Hep C, I've always been up front about being a carrier with any partner PRIOR to sexual activity. Yes, I have experienced rejection as a result but at least I know that I did the "right thing".
Over the course of time (diagnosed for 13 + yrs.); I have married and concieved a child and no transmission has occured to my partner or child. (We kiss alot!)
Before sex occured, we talked to our personal Dr.'s, and researched the hell out of transmission possibilities and decided mutually to take the risk. (In my informed opinion, a slight one)
It's a blood borne disease and blood to blood contact is necessary to transmit so, govern yourself accordingly.  

[nygirl7]

"IS STILL CONVINCED THAT IT CAN BE TRANSMITTED BY KISSING AND OR SEX"


If she is in the recovery field - she will also want to be able to talk professionally and CORRECTLY about this disease.  Right now, if someone asks her about this she will be doing THEM a huge disservice by giving some odd advice that really makes no sense.

HepC is ONLY transferred through BLOOD and can't be gotten that way.

She should know this.

So you would be doing her a favor.

It's sort of like saying you can get pregnant by kissing - you just can't do either.

[Forseegood]

I would do as Jim suggested, most medical sites state that it isn't necessarily a sexually transmmitable disease, although there is a small possiblity, and probably one shouldn't totally negate this possiblity...

One way (that I have read and heard) that they have come up with this idea is that they looked at thousand(s) of couples statistically....and found that the vast majority of couples with one person infected and the other not, (that were in these studies) were married or otherwise living together and did not use condoms, yet one person was infected and the other not...

The couples questioned also stated that they did not indulge in unprotected anal sex or otherwise "rough sex, where blood to blood contact could occur....these were purportedly "managomous" couples...as far as people with multiple partners? - that's another story, with multiple factors I'd imagine...

Maybe give her all the medical and statistical data that you can find...there's logic that you can apply to this afterall...if it was, strictly speaking, a sexually tranmmitable disease....as HIV is, then why do they have these thousands and thousands of couples studied, and have one person infected and the other not? Many living together for more then 20 years...When you compare similar statistical analysis of HIV, you don't have this phenomenon...

I personally think the statistical analyses is the most compelling, just put a lot of this stuff into a search engine...I also believe that there are some people who have rather obsessive personalities (maybe even some people on this board....maybe even me, ha ha!) that might have a problem with just the "idea" of someone being infected with this...

I know many people who are not infected with this disease that don't have this - they have little problem with being romantically involved with an infected person, but not everyone....hopefully, she will see reason and that if youre both careful and use safe sex, there's little to worry about...this is a controversial subject to say the least, and there are some who don't agree with me...which is fine, just giving you my take...

This is just a gentle suggestion? And I might be coming completely out of left field and totally wrong, and I apolgize beforehand if this is the case....but why do you call yourself *pariah*? Have you given a thought that maybe, you yourself could too apprehensive about your own illness? And maybe telegraphing this to other people? Just a thought...I'm just a big believer in the fact that we can often become our own thoughts about ourselves, which is why I ask...like I said, I could be completely off base...be well and I hope she sees reason...

[nygirl7]

I was talking about Kissing - as most people were talking about the SMALL SMALL SMALL chance that you can get it via sex by the way.

I had two children and neither of them have it. It's pretty darn rare.

Practice safe-R sex practices and you will be fine.

[jmjm530]

Use condoms until you are ready to have an open discussion on your hep c status. You can then point out that HCV is not considered a sexually transmitted disease although there is a very small possiblity. Then let her make the decision, perhaps after doing some independent research, and/or speaking both to her and/or your doctor. What you do want to be careful of is sharing personal items such as a toothbrush, razor, hair brush, combs, nail clippers, etc. If you're already in a situation where this may become an issue, than probably best to have the discussion now. Depending on how your friend ticks, you may lose some points with here if you keep it a secret for too long.

Here's a link to a recent thread from the woman'a point of view:
http://www.medhelp.org/forums/Hepatitis-Community/messages/372.html

-- Jim

[Forseegood]

MO: funny how we can be so on the same page in so many ways...ha ha! Hope that's not insulting you...

anyway, I agree with you...if youre still in the dating stage, even though maybe some people say it's a little sneaky, I wouldn't tell a person (I also wouldn't have sex with them either until they knew of my condition, youre both in the first stages of a relationship anyway, this issue is a great case as to why it's not wise to have sex right away)....

and see if the relationship turns into something more meaningful, and has roots in something going somewhere (with the current set of sexually transmmitable diseases, one night stands should be a thing of the past anyway)...

if both people seem to be going in the same direction, and developing a true fondness and rapport with each other...and a bonding is taking place, then after all this happens....then speak honestly about what's going on with you healthwise, and why you thought it more prudent to keep it to yourself until you felt more *comfortable* talking about it...if this person is on the same page with you, and feels for you in a special way, this person will stick around, if she/he is totally informed and educated abou the disease.....if not, then you didn't need them in your life in the first place...that's how I see it anyway...

[pariah127]

the thing is  iam a reccovering junkie

i used iv injection drugs but Never shared my kits
i have no idea how i could have contracted it since i NEVER shared. i had 1 aneurism on the out side of my skull and i dont know if they did transfusion or not since i was out cold.

then the doc tells me i'm positive and my whole world goes out of whack since everyone i talked to about it shuns me.

they act like i have hiv  and am actively trying to give it to them,.


now this woman whom i adore comes out with this prejudice


i have to be honest  its part of my reccovery

to Not tell her is simply inconcievable

i have sooo deep feelings for her its hearbreaking to think of wht kind of reaction i might recieve

plz   i would like more facts   since she believes it can be transmitted thru bodily fluids.   i appreciate everyones comments   thank you sooo very much!

[jmjm530]

You're playing a dangerous game here. I do agree that it's not necessary to disclose on the first date, however, it seems that Pariah is well beyond that point and is either having sex with his friend or it is imminent. There comes a point in a relationship where not having sex can beg more problems without an honest reason why, so I think your delaying tactic can backfire. The honest reason why would be the Hep C status. This case is even more complicated in that his friend thinks Hep C can be transmitted through kissing. So I'm going to assume they have already kissed. If it wasn't for the kissing thing, I'd say one option is to use a condom until things got more serious. But there is the kissing issue.
Bottom line is that this guy's intent isn't to have sex with the woman but to have a long term relationship with her.

As to your statement "Why should I have sex with a person with hep c?" (unless you're) head over heels in love (with the person)..." I will tell you from experience that all women don't think like that. Again, this isn't about sex, it's about a relationship.

-- Jim

[jmjm530]

Here are the "facts" you are asking for. Just post this link into your browser window, then read and print out the articles. Then sit down and discuss the whole situation with her. What happens, happens.

http://tinyurl.com/2s6tad

[pariah127]

i have NOT kissed her but i have known her for several years and THAT is where my deep affection comes from

and our relationship is nowhere near sex even tho feelings are running hi especially with me.

[Forseegood]

I just meant that if youre seeing a person, in the first stages, youre only dating, there's no committment, nothing at that point...that's what I'm talking about...if you see that it's going somewhere, and you have a bonding, then talk about this stuff...

I personally don't think that that's being deceitful...if I was merely dating someone in the first stages, I would also NOT feel compelled to tell them I have a sister who has mental problems, or that I have mental problems (generalized anxiety disorder and depression) or that I've been been audited by the IRS, there's a lot of things I wouldn't tell them right off, because I don't feel compelled to at that stage, it's really none of their business, it's just a few dates at that point and I don't think it gets into "let's divulge everything about each other" until later...

One "works" up to that...I might not feel comfortable enough with that person to do that....after all....at this point - WE ARE STILL RELATIVE STRANGERS...we haven't bonded yet, for all I know I might not ever see them again....and if I've divulged everything about myself in the beginning dating period, I've done so with a relative stranger, which could prove risky for me...just look at these boards for heaven's sake...(a nervous laugh)

And I don't know about anybody else, but I have had more then a few dates where I kinda knew it wasn't going to go anywhere, but I still gave it a few extra chances...I also wouldn't have sex with a person at this stage either so this wouldn't be an issue...

I think what we're talking about is a *time frame* issue and how this relates to dating, etc...I just don't tell strangers compromising information....

From Pariah's last post, I can now gather he's gotten more serious with this woman, so of course, then it gets into honesty in divulging information, etc...I just wanted to delineate what "I" meant...and Pariah, I just hope that she can be okay with things once she's educated, if not, then it's really her problem, and not yours...

[jmjm530]

Well, if you haven't kissed here -- and aren't sure of her feelings toward you -- then option is to tell her now as a friend, an equally good option is to wait awhile until both of you get to the point where you might get physical. Frankly I'm more knowledgeable about Hep C than relationship issues like this, so I'll let the ladies take over with advice :) Hope it all works out and do report back if so inclined.

Be well,

-- Jim

[Forseegood]

one more little thing? I used to be a drug and alcohol counselor in the summers, I'm no expert by any means, but I know a little...don't know if youre in program, but what does your sponsor think of all this? - if you are in program?

As you well know, many addicts can be in their "heads" about people, places and things, and are not always exactly sure if it's just a rebound thing from the drugs, another addiction, or somewhere to focus their attention if they've just recently been off drugs...Of course how many people who are not addicts - even have these things together?

I don't know how much recovery you have, but I just hope youre in a safe place and not on a slippery slope, as you said so well, your recovery and sobriety is probably very meaningful to you...and these issues *could* delve into life and death issues for recovering addicts, especially having this disease...I just hope that all of this is taken into consideration and that you have objective people to talk to about these things, I'm sure you do...best of luck with this, you seem like a very good person...

[Evannescence]

Dear Pariah.  What a situation!  I think if I were a "health worker" I would certainly already know that HepC was little or no threat whatsoever to my life if I married you.  So, for starters, she cant be in medicine as such!   Anyway, this is not the point.  Tell her.  Tell her today!  She is not a stranger, and therefore there is no reason to hold back on this fundamental information about yourself.  She isnt a colleague at work.  She's a friend.  Nor is she a new date you met last night at the bar.  This is deeper than that. So tell her as soon as possible.  You need her trust, and to tell her is working on that.  Then duck!  Duck for hours, days if necessary.  If she is at all interested in you as a long term friend and even lover/mate, then she will do her own locating of information - in her own time, she will seek out the data, and she will filter it in a way that favour the outcome of her true and deep wishes, inspite of her preconceptions.  ie.  if she wants you and you mean enough to her, she'll find a way of seeing that HepC is little or no physical health threat to her, and if she is not really serious to see your friendship with her through, she may then use this as a device to back away, to pull out and disappear (which will hurt you, but will also be what is).  Dont give her too much time to build up the prejudices she already has been devoloping about HepC.  So tell her now.  She must then have the opportunity to break down those views about HepC, to re-evaluate, and to see the other side of the story, as a way to save herself from embarassment, if nothing else, which would be if she does wish to approach you with a new found opinion.  This leaves the power completely in her hands, and she will be in control of her decision.  What you must not do is delay.  Pariah, you must live with the uncertainty of love and life.  I hope I have given you another point of view to consider.  xxxElaine  (Female aged 48, Hep C for 25 years, wife and mother of 3, husband  clear, daughter aged 21 clear, boys 15 and 13 not tested)

[pariah127]

now i am REally afraid  i'm going to telll her! and i can hardly type right now! (tears   cant see)

your right it is a deep friendship and i probably should have told her before this.  

ican just see the outcome right now   with this woman i have loved for years rejjecting me just after i find out she feels something for me.

sins of my past  etc...

well i guess my name fits

[ScaredinNY]

JmJm linked to a topic I started recently.   In my opinion, and based on my recent experience, if you are going to take this relationship to a romantic level (including intimacy) you have to tell her.  I wasn't told, and I am having a very difficult time trusting the person who didn't tell me. In fact, I don't know if I can get past it.   From what I've read and the good advice given to me on this site, I've learned that Hep C is not easily passed through sex, and it's not passed through kissing.  There has to be blood to blood contact.  There are couple who have been together for decades, and the positive spouse has not given it to the Hep C negative spouse.  As others have stated, your friend seems to have a misunderstanding of this disease, which is surprising since she's in the medical field.   I think a long talk is in order.

By the way, I was tested for HepC and all have come back negative.  My Doc even advised that I can test again for my own peace of mind, but she doesn't think it's necessary.  

[Myown]

You're playing a dangerous game here. I do agree that it's not necessary to disclose on the first date, however, it seems that Pariah is well beyond that point and is either having sex with his friend or it is imminent. There comes a point in a relationship where not having sex can beg more problems without an honest reason why, so I think your delaying tactic can backfire. The honest reason why would be the Hep C status. This case is even more complicated in that his friend thinks Hep C can be transmitted through kissing. So I'm going to assume they have already kissed. If it wasn't for the kissing thing, I'd say one option is to use a condom until things got more serious. But there is the kissing issue.
Bottom line is that this guy's intent isn't to have sex with the woman but to have a long term relationship with
her.

As to your statement "Why should I have sex with a person with hep c?" (unless you're) head over heels in love (with the person)..." I will tell you from experience that all women don't think like that. Again, this isn't about sex, it's about a relationship.
---------------------------------------------------------
Whats with the "I"m playing a dangerous game."
Give me a break.

Number one, you are the one that is assuming that he had sex. He may have, but it is not what he openly conveyed in his thread and I wasn't going to assume. If you read my post again you will see I am speaking from the stand point of thinking he HAS NOT had sex. I'm the one conveying build a relationship. Your the one telling him he can be Elvis the Pelvis as long as he wraps it up.

Your advice was condoms (which can break). That advice is NOT a dangerous GAME, its downright DANGEROUS PERIOD.

My delaying is not a 'tactic,'as you worded it. It is what anyone with a brain does during these days we are living. And if anyone has any strong religious beliefs whether Christian,Jewish,Muslim, whatever, many choose to wait for 'that reason.'

I don't expect nor do I condemn others who don't feel the same or believe the same, because I didn't feel this way my whole life either, but I see now as I look around at all the diseases that people get from one another that Gods plan is the only 100% safe plan.

There was nothing dishonest about the advice I gave this fellow.

The problem is you hate if someone believes other than the way you think concerning this issue. The last statement that you copied and misinterpeted is an example of you turning the tables.

You are the one making this into a sexual issue, not me. I'm telling the guy to build a relationship. YOUR THE ONE SAYING wrap the big boy up and 'do it,'its safe as long as you wear a condom. What a joke.


The 'IV drug info' didn't come out in the opening thread, so now with that fact known, I would say that this lady who is comming off as being so cautious is NOT as cautious as she says,IF she is aware he is a recovering addict. I am reading all this as if he hasn't kissed or anything yet.


So now with that said, he should come out and put the whole story on the table if he really wants opinions . Did he have unprotected sex and that's what is eating at him? If he did, that was beyond sleezy and she will take a hike most likely. But the other thing is if she is so cautious thinking about  different ways she might contract it,including saliva,why would she kiss an ex IV drug user without seeing recent labs to make sure he is negative. She's either not as cautious as she says or she hasn't kissed him yet.

But just so there is not any misunderstanding again..dangerous ground to me is someone taking the chance and putting a condom on that may break and then telling the girl, oh btw I have hep.So if he follwed your advice well..... (dangerous ground, I would say.)

Safe ground to me is as I mentioned. Build a relationship first, whether someone has hep or is 100% disease free. If others share other opinions thats fine. I don't get bent out of shape unless they try to tell me I can't give my opinion.

YOUR way is about "sex," don't try to say mine was.

Oh and the statement that all women don't think like me, I'm in 100% agreement.

[pariah127]

no i did not have sex and no i did not kiss her yet!
like i said we have been friends for years !
i have developed this deep affection for her and she has deep affection for me but we have NEVER been intimate .

she has probably guessed by now anyway because i have never had a girlfriend in like 3 yrs.
i just spoke to her on the phone and told her we need to talk.  
she told me to calm down because i was very upset .


i may be an ex jjunkie but i'm not that person anymore i would not tell her after the fact  and i'm not playing any games

to me this is deadly serious

i would still appreciate any help or advice
thank you

[jmjm530]

I think you overreacted a little to the use of my phrase "dangerous game". Probably a poor choice of words on my part. All I was trying to say is that sometimes people resent things if  they find out that something has been witheld from them -- "ScaredinNY" is just one example per her recent thread and post above.  I also see your point of view, especially since Pariah's relationship apparently hasn't gone anywhere sexually as I presumed it may have -- and you apparently presumed it may have not. But both were presumptions since Pariah hadn't told us.

As to condom's breaking, etc., sure condoms can break -- but I still feel that protecting oneself with a condom, combined with a condition (Hep C) that is only rarely transmitted sexually, is a reasonably responsible course of action without disclosure. Yes, there's always some risk but so is getting up in the morning. That doesn't mean I think using condoms without disclosure the best course of action for everyone, just one reasonable course of action. I also understand you may disagree here as well, so what else is new:)

Be well,

-- Jim

[Forseegood]

hi, so sorry that youre distressed, I'm sure no one here meant for you to be, I guess it's just hard to comment on things we know little about, in terms of your own situation...all we can comment on is generalities really, and we don't really know your situation, only you do..is this woman in recovery also? How long have you been in recovery, sober? These are things only you know...

I just can't imagine if she is in the health field why she would harbor these types of prejudices? Although, just being around this board, I have heard of doctors who know little about this disease...I just hope you can work it all out, and that in the end, re relationships...if it's meant to be, it's meant to be...I just hope that youre okay in terms of your own sobriety and will continue to stay okay no matter how this particular situation works out...wishing you the best...

and to be really, really corny, and say the biggest cliche ever...(sorry board)

We can't really love *other* people and maintain a healthy love relationship until we love ourselves first, cause we won't have anything to give if this isn't the case...we will just be in need...

and being needy is not really attractive to anyone and why would it be? That's why I asked about your recovery, so you'll be on your way (if youre not there already) to care about and love yourself first, THEN pursue active love relationships with other people.....if this is in place, you've got a whole lot more traction and chance of relationships working out for you, just my opinion...

[jmjm530]

As I read your repeated posts, I sense more and more anguish over this situation.
"Forseegood" with her background in counseling, touched upon some issues I'm really not qualified to know much about. So, I'd like to revise my suggestion and ask you to consider seeking professional counseling on the matter before you make any decisons. We're just a bunch of lay folks on the internet and none of us know you very well. Speaking openly to a professional may lead you to the best way to handle this situation. I truly wish you the very best.

-- Jim

[pariah127]

she' is already on her wAY HERE   I'M GOING TO TELL HER AND RISK OUR WHOLE RELationship  from the way she was talking on the phone i think she's allready backing out of the romantic part of our relationship.  last week when i found out how she felt i tried to push her away but she wouldnt bite    
ppart of that was because i knew i had hepc
the other was cause over the years i had developed a deep love for her and i didnt want her to get involved with me. and i didnt want to fall in love with her.

knowing i had this desease.
now she tells me that i have lied to her even tho we didnt have a romantic relationship
i didnt think that for her it would ever get this far.

now we'll see what happens

[SandyBreeze]

Giving it to you straight.  If this relationship is meant to be, it will happen.  It is as simple as that.  

She has some good points to ponder - - (this woman you care about).  Talking with a Hep C hepatologist for well over an hour yesterday, I learned much.  He believes Hep C CAN be transmitted through normal sexual intercourse, although R-A-R-E. There can be tears in the vaginal walls, as well as rubbing raw of the penis in 'normal' intercourse - although RARE. He also pointed out flossing after brushing of teeth - and asked how often I did it.  I said daily.  He asked if my gums bled when doing so.  I said rarely, but occasionally.  He said your partner's may as well and open mouth/deep kissing is a means, (in his view) of transmission.  He also mentioned this would be extremely rare.  Very, very R-A-R-E.  

Howevver, to be TOTALLY  honest... (MY HUMBLE OPINION AS LAY-PERSON AND PATIENT). if I did NOT have HepC and found a person I was very much wanting to become involved in that did have the virus... I would be very much afraid.  This is a virus that is very, very difficult to get rid of.  If you read this forum, you will find this to be true.  People suffer through gruelling treatment in an attempt to free themselves from the virus. There are members here that I've read about that claim to be on this forum and many forums (I just read this, this week) for years that are plagued with fatigue and depression.  This is a virus that one must carefully think about... when engaging with with intimate contact with another.  That doesn't "SOUND' encouraging does it?  However, it is the truth.  And you have come here for the truth....

As far as 'counselors' on this forum??  Depending on what country you reside, some areas as a means of RECOVERY suggest people to serve as counselors... a method, in itself, toward a person's OWN recovery.   We are patients here!  (LOL)  Not doctors!!  Before listening to anyone suggesting they are a counselor,  I would ask for their PhD or M.D.  We are not a forum of counselors, psychologists, psychiatrists or doctors - we are members/patients and/or family members of patients with Hep C.

I wish you the best with this friendship.

Breeze

[Forseegood]

I think you might of mis-interpreted what I said, I did some drug and alcohol counseling, because of a degree and some seminars, I did by no means say that I was a qualified psychologist or had a pHd or MD...if fact I think I went out of my way to say that I only knew  "very little" about the subject, but I knew something...perhaps I should of been more clear on this issue and  I'm sorry that you took offense...

[jmjm530]

Sandy: He said your partner's may as well and open mouth/deep kissing is a means, (in his view) of transmission. He also mentioned this would be extremely rare. Very, very R-A-R-E.
-----------------------------------
Not to take issue with you or your doctor, but just an attempt to try and put a perspective on what is an important and often touchy subject in the Hep C Community.

I won't debate whether or not Hep C can be transmitted via deep kissing in  "very, very R-A-R-E" cases. Of course, I have no way of knowing if this is the case, nor does your doctor, since no studies have been done, and the ones that have been done show the rarity of transmission within the whole package of sexual behavior within marriages.

But let's assume this rarity occurs. OK. But what about dental and medical procedures such as endoscophy, colonoscophy. Or any type of surgery for that matter. Many also contend that Hep C can be transmitted in those manners, although, very, very rare. Or even at nail salons, hair salons, etc, through residual micro droplets of blood breaking the skin barrier through combs, scissors, etc, with sterilization procedures often not the best.

Is the rarity of the transmission of Hep C through the above mentioned means the same as the rarity of transmitting it through open mouth kissing? I really don't have a clue, and doubt if your doctor does either.

So where does that leave all of us. Do we seek blood tests before we open mouth kiss anyone, because who really knows who may or may not have Hep C -- most who have it don't know. Who knows what a person may have, could have HIV as well. Do we buy our own dental instruments, nail instruments, bring our own scissors and combs to the stylist. Certainly one course of action, but do we? And then what about the medical procedures?

Not trying to be argumentative, just raising some issues when the words "very, very rare" are used. I know it's not your intention, but I'd just hate to see many in our commmunity feel guilty or compelled to reveal their Hep C status before they kiss someone, or for that matter engage in any activity -- such as even a contact sport -- where the rare possiblity of blood tranmission is present.  

All the best,

-- Jim

[Myown]

All I was trying to say is that sometimes people resent things if they find out that something has been witheld from them -- "ScaredinNY" is just one example per her recent thread and post above.
-------------------------------------------------------
Jim, lets end this conversation here.

You're still twisting everything I'm saying. How can you compare what I said to Pariah to Scared's incident? Scared's guy should be hung from a tree as far as I am concerned.(by his you know what too)

I am not saying to withhold anything. YOU didn't tell friends you have hep, neither did I. If you're NOT  having sex with someone, why tell them?

If he builds a friendship with her and then she wants to go further, THEN he can tell her. But she is "so cautious" so why would she not make him get tested KNOWING he was an IV user? I believe Pariah that she wants to be cautious, but things aren't adding up. If your afraid of saliva, you don't date unless you see labs first to see if he has a virus from the drug use. Something isn't clicking.

Now as far as ScaredinNY. I stayed 50 feet away from that thread. That GUY IS A CREEP! I totally disagreed 100000000000% with what you all told her. I thought you were ALL nuts or at least whoever said oh he's not a saint but blah blah blah(maybe that was you).

How can you tell this guy to be 'honest' as you put it and, yet Scare's boyfriend, no condom and you're saying "oh well, its true its blood to blood and its hard to get through sex" so its not like he put you at a high risk (or whatever, but thats the jist.)

After all the anxiety that we go through with this disease and ScaredinNY friend knows it cuz he has it and no one says DUMP THE DIRT BAG. Amazing.I would freak out, as you can imagine if someone told me "oh btw,I have hep C after I had sex? He would be pressing charges for assault against me after he told me. I mean come on, we have this cr@ppy disease, we should be the last people in the world to take it so lightly.

Pariah is at least concerned for this girl. Scared's friend could care less. She will find out it she stays with him. Big deal he wanted to go to the doctor with her, wow what a nice guy. My God there are so many who don't have hep, why go out with someone who does. Maybe men feel different, but I'm sure I'm not the only women who feels this way. I may be the only to admit it though.
end of subject.

[jmjm530]

MO: Jim, lets end this conversation here.
------------------------------------------
I wish you would have instead of continuing for seven more paragraphs:)

Hopefully we've both had an opportunity go get our thoughts out, and hopefully those thoughts will be helpful to others in their difficult journey.

-- Jim

[Myown]

MO: funny how we can be so on the same page in so many ways...ha ha! Hope that's not insulting you...
------------------------------------------------------
It's not insulting at all. I truly take it as a complement. I've noticed for a long time that though politcal stuff we may disagree and maybe religious beliefs and stuff,but I do feel that connection, but was afraid to tell you. HA! Figured you'd say NOOOOOOO. ha!

After my posts tonight (cause Jimmie darling is getting on my lst nerve ha! but really) You may want to say,,,"nah, I don't want that connection with you. Ha!

Hey, we're both animal lovers too! Except PIt bulls, I have a sad story about my dog, too long to tell, but I don't let my dog go near them. Thank God my dog survived the attack, but was in the hospital a long time. I could have gotten killed trying to help her. Yeah so Pits aren't my buddies anymore. I think you said you had one, thats why I mentioned it.

I'll tell ya the story some time if we ever talk. You can always get my email or phone # from SFBay girl (or Wyntre)

see ya later.

[pariah127]

she is still on her way here and she has a GOOD idea of wht i'm going to say
tho i could feel the coolness in her voice

she's alot smarter than me
and i've gotten in way over my head

i know she'll still be a friend
but i dont know if i'll even be able to look at her if she backs out of this
it'll just be too hard to be around her and feel the way i do.


i've tried to research this as well as i could could anyone post a recent study on hep and sex so i have an idea if i'll ever be able to have a normal life?

i appreciate all the info people

[Myown]

Ending here meaning LAST POST.

[SandyBreeze]

Jim,

Thank you for the comments and appreciated your response.  

Unfortunately, some things are touchy in the 'Community' as I am discovering (LOL).  But it is, what it is Jim.

After speaking with my specialist, and he openly admits, that he is extremely cautious comparatively to most in his field, about this virus and the means of transmission.  And believes there are far more people with the virus than reported and desires that ALL (LOL :)) be tested!!  I have so much to tell you about yesterday, and hopefully can condense an hour of consultation in writing  tomorrow or in the next couple of days - because I would very much would like your view.  

After speaking with him, I get the clear impression one very important factor for his encouraging those treating with minimal to no damage is to avoid transmission.

I don't think you're being argumentative and hope that you do not consider me being so, when I say very, very rare... but it is still a chance to consider.  I don't have children and don't know if you do; however, if you did, would you want them deep kissing (if they were of age) or engaging in contact sports with others... even given the rarity of the possibility of blood transmission?  It is only thought.  I am new to this.   I am probably not one to speak so freely on any of these subjects, given my fresh knowlege to this subject and apologize if 'stepping on toes'.

It is always a pleasure,

Breeze

[jmjm530]

LOL. I can only hope.

[Forseegood]

hi, don't worry, I wouldn't hold it against you or anybody if they were afraid of pit bulls, I realize that many people train them improperly, or abuse them, to be aggressive, etc...Some breeders put mother and son together, to make them have a bigger chance to come out nuts...

it's really sad, because there are many who are just the sweetest dogs around, and they are painted by the same brush of the mean ones, but people need to protect themselves and I understand that...if I see a person with most any large dog, I don't trust them enough to go up to them, etc...unless I know them...I have a girlfriend that was mauled on her leg by a huge labrador..to me, if I know the person and the dog, then I have a comfort level...This is just my 3rd one and they've all been the nicest, sweetest dogs ever....all the children in the neighborhood come running out when they see her, because they love to play with her...and she's very sensitive and knowing, if a small child tries to play with her, she doesn't jump or lean on them, as she would with an adult playing with her...she gets along with cats, dogs, even rabbits!

In fact, my Petunia is so mellow, that when very small dogs try to attack her, she just looks at them and moves them away from her with her paw, and never growls or anything, she's really a wonderful, kind dog...the other two I had until there old ages and i never had any problems with them, I took them everywhere...my last one saved my life, she died a over a year ago now...but no, people shouldn't trust dogs they don't know, especially the bigger breeds...keep your distance till you know for sure...

[Myown]

Hopefully we've both had an opportunity go get our thoughts out, and hopefully those thoughts will be helpful to others in their difficult journey.

---------------------------------------------------------
give me a break, if you were interested in me getting my thoughts out, you wouldn't have tried to change my thoughts or opinion. That IS what you tried to do. I hope they open another forum in here soon and name it "WOMEN ONLY ROOM."

and the 7 paragraphs comment was cute, real cute.

[jmjm530]

Sandy,

Always a pleasure here too, and did not think you were being argumentative at all. Provocative yes, but not argumentative. But yes, if I had kids I'd wouldn't stop them from engaging in contact sports knowing full well that a certain per cent of the kid population has Hep C, HIV, whatever. As far as "deep kissing" is concerned, do you think they'd listen to their father on that one. LOL. Not would I want to deprive them from other risky but fruitful adventures in life such as climbing mountains, visiting untamed areas of the world, navigating rough waters, pushing their bodies to the absolute limit in extreme sports. To deprive them of that would make me a hypocrite.

Funny story -- or not so funny -- about sailor's in WWII. Big problem with sex workers and symphillis. So the Navy would show these horrible syphillis films on board the ships and literally scare the beejessus out of the men. So why didn't the films work? Cause after a case or two of beer on shore, the young male hormones combined with alcohol over-rode even the most horrific film. But getting off topic, whatever that was.

Yes, very interested in what your doctor said. Just keep in mind that doctors are people like the rest of us and often their opinions -- like the rest of us -- transcend medicine and science and end up being just that opinions. I've spoken in depth, had dinner with -- even drinks one.LOL. -- with some very knowledgeable hepatologists. I wish I could say I found a consensus on a lot of these issues but I didn't! And oh...I'm due for an endoscophy pretty soon.. and guess what my irrational concern is now that I'm virus free. LOL.

Be well,

-- Jim

[SandyBreeze]

LOL .... !!!

Enjoyed your post!  If I stay up much longer it will be time to rise!!  You're pretty spunky, heh?

That's so true... as I am seeing here - - the differing opinions between hepatologists.  Didn't you find that interesting upon diagnosis?  Laughter began ... when he spotted my notes from here!!!

He talked about his wife and her greenhouse (???) so.... VERY much to report!! :) And yes, that had to do with HepC!!! LOL

[jmjm530]

SB: You're pretty spunky, heh?
-------------------------------
Never got the impression you were a wall flower either :) Nite!!!

[SandyBreeze]

;)

[Tater-ToT]

Honk, Honk...
Vaaroom....

Wow... Was that an El Camino ... it speed thru so fast I couldn't tell...

Priceless!
LMAO

Night All!

[pariah127]

wow! icannot believe how sshe took that!

at 1st she was taken aback to the point of saying we could not be together
then she said she still wanted to hang with me
as the  night wore on  it became obvious that she could not completely write me off.

dont get me wrong she is still processsing it
but the warmth was still there.
we spent the night holding each other and it was all i could do to keep from crying tears of gratitude to jesus for putting a woman like that in my life!

you people have helped sooooo much
i dont think i would have ever had the courage to tell her without  your sage advice!

i'm going to bed  but before i do  i will hit my knees snd pray thank you prayers for all of you

you have my undying gratitude
and even if she changes her mind at least i'll be able to cope a little better

[Evannescence]

She wont change her mind. She may pretend to, but her mind was already made up.  If it's meant to be, it will happen. If she wants a long term friendship / relationship with you, that will not change just because of this.  Well done for taking this step!  Wow this subject certainly caused a stir in everyone here.  

Elaine

[mauilady]

If this helps, and you see this before this thread gets any longer:  I've had HepC for 35 years; been with my husband 25 years.  He doesn't have it; he's 100% clean.  

[poetic_wax]

Hurry, get the IP address so we can verify the year and color!!

Honk!!!

[Tater-ToT]

Humm...
You wouldn't happen to drive a Volvo would you..?

Doo Dooo Dooo Doo

[would-rather-be-riding]

I kind of think that if you feel like this relationship can grow into a life-time one, you should tell your friend from the start.  In a setting that is conducive to deep conversation.  Let your friend make an informed decision, after all, wouldn't that be what you would want if it were you?  I think that by telling your friend BEFORE iot goes any further, you can base that moment on true affection for each other; and if you 'do it' without first disclosing, you are 'doing it' just for the sex.
After all, honesty can reveal the true nature of things.....
Best wishes for you.  I am married and sex has definately changed for my relationship.  I feel like I am trapped in a different body-mentally I am the same person, but there's this barrier (my body) which stands in the way.  I do'nt know if that makes any sense.  But maybe if you tell your friend before anything happens, there won't be that 'things are different' pall over the two of you.  And from the way you say your friend's attitude is, she WON't appreciate not being told--atleast this way you have a fighting chance!

[Cindy10]

I knew you would be fine, you must be relieved!

[honey11]

Pariah,,,,Good luck with your relationship but I'm tending to agree with Elaine!

Good Morning Spunky Jim! lol

[pariah127]

i woke up this morning fully xpecting her to call me and drop my sorry ass
that has not happenned yet
and i dont think it will
thanks to the courage that you people have lent me
i am also so much more well informed about this disease
now maybe i dont have to live in denial and ill start to actually get some treatment
i was sooo scared i didnt even look at any of the sights.
are ther any treatments that can obliterarate  thius virus?

[Evannescence]

The treatment which will obliterate this virus is: 48 weeks or 24 weeks of Interferon injections once a week and Ribavirin tablets twice a day.  But, (BIG BUT) it doesnt obliterate it in everone all of the time

Find out from your doctor:  your genotype,and the viral load, some important blood results such as:  albumin, AFP, ALT and AST, then possibly (but not necessarily) have a liver bx done to stage the liver damage (if any)


Go to this excellent site of the Hepatitis C Trust:  http://www.hepcuk.info/data/UserContentRoot/Home/

The Q & A sessions (Doctors, Clinicians and Individuals with Hep C) is particularly good.  My specialist is one them!

Youre on your way!!!!
Evannescence.