interesting article about meat consumption and liver disease/HCC

It looks like we need a cookbook called, "1000 ways to cook chicken breast"  This was in my inbox from a yahoo group today.  I am going to have to rethink our dinner menu. It is hared to get through but the conclusion was clearly understood.  This isn't really new news just more numbers to back it up I guess. Joe so loves roast. :>(
Ev





Association of Meat and Fat Intake With Liver Disease and Hepatocellular
Carcinoma in the NIH-AARP Cohort

Background: Several plausible mechanisms, including fat, iron,
heterocyclic amines, and N-nitroso compounds, link meat intake with chronic liver
disease (CLD) and hepatocellular carcinoma (HCC). Few studies have investigated
these associations.
Methods: We prospectively examined the relationship between meat and
associated exposures with CLD mortality (n = 551; not including HCC) and HCC
incidence (n = 338) in 495 006 men and women of the National Institutes of
Health–AARP Diet and Health Study. Hazard ratios (HRs) and 95% confidence
intervals (CIs) for the fifth (Q5) vs the first (Q1) quintile were estimated from
multivariable adjusted Cox proportional hazards regression models. All
tests of statistical significance were two-sided.
Results: We found inverse associations between white meat and risk of CLD
(HR = 0.52, 95% CI = 0.39 to 0.70, 7.5 vs 18.2 cases per 100 000
person-years) and HCC (HR = 0.52, 95% CI = 0.36 to 0.77, 5.8 vs 14.3 cases per 100
000 person-years) . Red meat was associated with higher risk of CLD (HR =
2.59, 95% CI = 1.86 to 3.61, 22.3 vs 6.2 cases per 100 000 person-years) and
HCC (HR = 1.74, 95% CI = 1.16 to 2.61, 14.9 vs 5.7 cases per 100 000
person-years) . Among fat types, results were strongest for saturated fat (for CLD,
HR = 3.50, 95% CI = 2.48 to 4.96, 23.0 vs 6.5 cases per 100 000
person-years; for HCC, HR = 1.87, 95% CI = 1.23 to 2.85, 14.5 vs 6.3 cases per 100
000 person-years) . After mutual adjustment, risk estimates persisted for
saturated fat, red meat, and white meat. Heme iron, processed meat, nitrate,
and nitrite were positively associated with CLD but not with HCC. Individual
heterocyclic amines, 2-amino-3,4, 8-trimethylimida zo[4,5,-f] quinoxaline
(DiMeIQx), 2-amino-3,8- dimethylimidazo[ 4,5-f] quinoxaline (MeIQx), and
2-amino-1-methyl- 6-phenyl- imidazo[4, 5-b]pyridine (PhIP), were not associated with
either outcome.

Conclusion: Our results suggest that red meat and saturated fat may be
associated with increased CLD and HCC risk, whereas white meat may be
associated with reduced risk.

CONTEXT AND CAVEATS
Prior knowledge
Few studies have examined whether meat and fat intake are associated with
chronic liver disease (CLD) and/or hepatocellular carcinoma.
Study design
Information concerning diet, CLD, and hepatocellular cancer incidence was
collected for 495 006 men and women, aged 50–71 years, from the National
Institutes of Health–AARP Diet and Health Study. All participants completed
food-frequency questionnaires in 1995–1996, and some completed an additional
food cooking questionnaire in 1996–1997. Incidence of hepatocellular
carcinoma was collected from state cancer registries until the end of 2003, and
incidence of CLD was determined from National Death Index records through the
end of 2005. Participants were divided into quintiles on the basis of meat,
fat, or other nutrient intakes, and hazard ratios for risk of CLD and
hepatocellular carcinoma were estimated using Cox proportional hazards models.
Contribution
Red meat and saturated fat intakes were associated with increased risk of
CLD and hepatocellular carcinoma, whereas white meat intake was associated
with less than average risks of both diseases. Meat processing and its heme
iron, nitrate, and nitrite contents were associated with CLD but not with
cancer.
Implication
Intake of red meat and saturated fats may increase hepatocellular cancer
risk.
Limitations
The results are based on self-reported food intakes. They were stratified
by alcohol intake and other possible confounders; however, data concerning
hepatitis virus infections were unavailable.
_http://jnci. oxfordjournals. org/cgi/content/ abstract/ djq301_
(http://jnci. oxfordjournals. org/cgi/content/ abstract/ djq301)

[nygirl7]

It doesn't say anything about treatment or SVR so I gather this is the regular population of the planet, I wonder if they figured in some of the folks were HCV positive but might not have known so (you'd think they would test that but...) that would change the numbers I'd think pretty greatly but I can't read all the gobbledeegook science stuff my brains will fall out.

All I know is I do not like red meat nearly as much as I did pretx and during tx I could barely look at it (but I dont include cheeseburgers as they are excluded because they are a plant and therefore nice and healthy for me).

Thanks Evangelin good article.

[Bali05]

Everything in moderation as usual.
We actually need saturated fat and I piece of lean hormon free
red meat once in a while can be quite nutritious.
I  did shot 18 last night and had  some nice 93% fat free hormon free
brugers for dinner , they where delicious !

[Trinity4]

I like a good steak and burger once in a while myself.  Portion control, it's all about moderation and portions.

[bowyer2002]

We, family of 4, eat red meat - mostly venison, to the tune of about 6 deer per year.
Truly 'organic, hormone free, and low fat'.
My Dr said our diet was fine for my liver.
Just my .02.
I will agree - moderation is still key

[susan400]

Actually, I haven't really been all that careful with my diet as of late.  I don't run out to the fast food restaurants on a regular basis, but I also don't feel like chopping and cutting and cooking organic food every night. Not to mention that organic food costs more money than I can afford.  So, yea, I do eat red meat in a moderate amount and certainly not every day.  I try to mix it up. Sometimes I eat chicken, or fish, or pasta, or pork..., as far as a meat goes I mean. You know, it's also a sad fact, but some day even the most healthy, perfectly organized vegan, will some day meet the same fate as the meat eater, you know?  Evangelin, thank-you for at least keeping us informed on this topic so that we can make our choices with full knowledge!   Susan400

[FlGuy]

I often wonder who or what organizations sponsor these kind of studies.  For this one, I'm guessing a bunch of cows.

[GSDgirl]

I didn't really read all the gobbledy=gook either but free range, grass fed, hormone & antibiotic free beef is actually less fatty.  To get the marbling in beef they put the cow in a stall and feed grain to put on weight and the lack of grazing + the grain = fat.  I get a half of a grass fed local cow every summer and the meat is fantastic.  We also buy a 4-H pig every summer, same as above basically organic.

I have had a doctor tell me that chicken was the filthiest meat one can eat.

Enjoy whatever you eat.  Denise

[Bali05]

Ev,
thanks for posting this. I find it interesting to see what others think
of meat consumption.
Before I went on tx I  had omitted red meat from my diet
but I have changed that now to once in a while.
Usually when it goes on sale :)

[hcvJames]

What about the iron?

[susan400]

Whenever I get my iron checked it is completely normal and I mean the Ferritin, too.  My sodium is always slightly lower than their range.  My BP, great.  Heart-great. So, I don't see where my small amount of red meat is hurting me any.  In fact, my liver biopsy was the best that it has been in quite awhile, that I had just last June.  Even my cholesterol is within normal range.  Hmmmm, either I must be doing something right, or I'm truly blessed...    Susan400

[RobertBeWell]

I always take this stuff with a grain of salt. Nature always strives to be balanced. A good varied natural diet (ie as many whole foods as possible), exercise, rest and a positive outlook are going to do far more good than the supposed "damage" caused by a roast.

[deadmanwalking814]

In case you didn`t know; a pig has no sweat glands, so the poisons stay in the meat. That`s why God told us not to eat it, it`s a scavenger.Lamb, fowl & cow gets my vote. Be Healthy & May God Bless.

[beetfeat]

the title of the study and the conclusions say it all  too many may bes for me  one things for certain if you have high iron issues or encephalopathy red meat is the worst thing for you

[eureka254]

Thanks for the post!  So little is understood about the underlying mechanisms that promote liver disease and HCC that I think any exploration and research into contributing factors will lead us to a better understanding and management of both.  It's always good to see medicine and research acknowledge and address the fact that risk and management is not just about professional treatment, but also about what patients put into their bodies.  

Considering that this data is compiled from patient self-reporting, I can understand the authors only reaching conclusions of "associated risk" and "implications" of red-meat consumption, but the conclusion is nonetheless worth considering when we know the survival rate for HCC 5 years post-diagnosis, even with treatment, is close to zero.

The article appears to estimate a two-to-threefold increase of risk in those who consume red meat regularly as opposed to those who don't.  For me, the most surprising research observation was "Meat processing and its heme iron, nitrate, and nitrite contents were associated with CLD but not with cancer"... alas, hate to think that a deli turkey sandwich is better for my husband than a nice slow-cooked roast!

Good post, thanks for sharing this info.  ~eureka

[eureka254]

Hmmm... but in thinking about cows, I remember the massive boycott of beef-eating when mad cow disease was prevalent -- in the back of my mind, I can't help but wonder if people's attitudes about beef consumption would change if  there were to be a clearly established link of beef to HCC development and people learned about the dismal survival rate of HCC... just a thought.

[GSDgirl]

Well in case you didn't know that a 4-H pig is hormone free and fed very well by the kids that are "showing" them and then auctioning them.  The pig we buy every year is a friends son's pig.  The pig eats better than a lot of people out there.

Oh yea, some religions do not allow pork but mine does.

And oh yea another thing, the whole 4-h auction is helping the youth of today and many of the big companies donate back to the scolarship funds..........oh never mind.

Denise

[morethenaconqueror]

Dear Evangelin,

The less metabloic stess you can place on the liver the better off Joe will be, and red meat is somewhat harder to digest. Try to eat as close to the mediterranean diet as possible remember to keep Joe in an anabolic state at all times to promote recovery and enhanced mitochrondria function. Try to source pure WPI (whey protein isolates...stay away from the concentrates) when possible use hydrolysates (they are a little harder to get in their pure form. Nutrition and your Health:Dietary Guidelines for Americans, Jensen RG. Lipids in Human Milk. Lipids 1999;34:1243-1271.3 is a good place to start.
I hope that helps..Rememer you are what you eat!!!

[GSDgirl]

Then I guess I am a pig OINK, OINK..............oh yea a cow too MOO, MOO

[susan400]

My religion doesn't have any food restrictions...      But, this isn't a discussion about that.  

[evangelin]

Thanks so much for your helpful reply.
I have recently been told by an informed source that the whey protein I've been using is not the good kind.(Walmart)  I will soon be trying some from the same place I get Joe's supplements and it fits what you describe above.
I am still waiting for our chickens to start laying and we will have lots of lovely eggs. I've been talking to the girls about getting busy but they are taking their time.  I just bought some from a Mennonite neighbor and the yolks are so much darker yellow than the anemic store variety.  Joe likes eggs and is content to eat a lot of them.  I have more trouble giving him beans which he gets tired of quickly. I sneak them in though.  I try to keep cottage cheese around too because the protein is so high but the kids like it and it is gone every time I turn around.  It isn't that cheap either.  Eggs and good whey protein seem like my best hope of keeping his protein high.
If Joe tries Teleprevir, it will be interesting to see if his hgb. won't tank so badly if he eats more protein.  He is doing so much better now that it is hard to contemplate knocking him down again with the meds but I guess we might have to try.  I don't want to continue if he isn't doing phenomenally well after 4 weeks.  No way can we face months and months of misery if it doesn't look very promising. ( Don't let this scare you if you've never tried TX because Joe seems to have more bad SX than many others and it may be because of the cirrhosis)   Even if he gets rid of the virus (Oh what a day that would be)  we would need to continue with Hep Tech supplements. They have helped him so much that I would love to see what they could do if he wasn't under continual viral attack.
Joe has only had one set of labs taken  approx 6 weeks after starting Hep Tech supplements and heavily increasing his protein,and his albumin looked better than it had in years  and his  hgb was a bit higher too.  In Dec. we will get to see if the trend has continued.  His ALT was even in the high normal range which was nice to see. We have also just received a really good report about his esophageal; varicies looking much better.
I need to study more on the term anabolic state.  I have read some but can't say I totally get it yet although I understand the bottom line of keeping his protein high and for years I did the absolute opposite thinking that that was the right thing to do for cirrhosis.  
I think I'll just go make Joe a protein shake. Thanks again,
Ev  

[deadmanwalking814]

Feed a 4h pig to a pig & you still have a pig with no sweat glands to dispel toxins. Pork is bad for human consumption. As far as religion goes, I threw that out 10 yrs. ago when I finally realized that Christ is a REALITY & not a RELIGION. Just making friends & influencing people. May God Bless you & those little pig farmers.P>S> My statement was about the article, sorry you got upset & took it out of context.

[orleans]

Hey Ev, Good to hear that Joe is doing so well, all things considered.  We pretty much stick to deer for our red meat. Yummy! love, jerry

[GSDgirl]

How old are your chickens?  only asking because I have chickens and have had them for about 5 years.  Plus are they in a coop or totally free range?  If they are loose like mine they might be hiding their eggs.  Usually when hubby threatens soup they shape up.

[GSDgirl]

deadman, I was telling you that I know what the pig was fed that I buy.  Also these kids keep fans on their animals or misters of cool water that are set on timers.  I have fans in my kennel and misters (personal kennel).   I also have fans blowing into my horse stalls.  I was trying to tell you that what an animal is fed has a lot to do with the nutritional content.  

Maybe you think more about the cows that were on dateline or whatever show and how other commercial animals live.  There is a difference and you were wrong, people need to research.  Evangeline has researched what is best for her hubby and it is working but that does not mean everyone needs to eat like that.............

Oh wait a minute............you aren't a PETA surpporter or one of their converted vegans???????if so I am finished

[portann]

Steering the topic a bit here but like Joe, I like eggs a lot, especially for a  quick and easy  protein source.

WIih my new-found high cholesterol post-tx, is there any advantage to eating that junky looking stuff in cartons with egg whites only? There's one that says it has zero dietary cholesterol but looks yellow and pours into the pan almost like 'real eggs'.

I'm not sure I believe that just because yolks have dietary cholesterol, they  increase LDL cholesterol and I just can't stand those scrambled egg whites.

You lucky gals to have your own girls laying eggs. Yum.  

[GSDgirl]

You can have one real egg and seperate the whites from 2 or 3 and eat them that way

[Bali05]

Ev,
For what it is worth I use a product called Yourwhey.com. I mix that up with some
organic whole milk yogurt and a banana and add some vanilla exctract.
I take my Riba in the AM with that. It has got some fat , lots of protein, potassium,
calcium , probiotic and amino acids
What is important for protein consumption is that eating smaller portions thruout
the day makes for much better absorption.Also adding a few natural carbs makes
for better absorption.
I am jealous of your fresh eggs. When I go to Germany (country side) I always
notice how yellow and orange their egg yolks are. Needless to say they taste
much better. I was told once by a nutritionist that one egg yolk a day is no
problem in terms of cholesterol , so when I have eggs I usually crack one whole
egg and add some more whites from other eggs or the all whites Quick Eggs.

In terms of HgB on tx I found a study that showed B12 to limit the genotoxcicity
of Riba with less anemia. Also another one implying better response for people
with higher B12.

I will pm you those plus the B-complex I use that was recommended to me by
Dr. B. Every blood test I have done since I use it always shows good saturation
and my homocysteine went down as well , I took Swanson B-complex before
and it apparently was not that good.

[Trinity4]

Yeah, when it comes to HepTech devotees and supplements it's like preaching to the choir.  

Peter Peter Pumpkin eater..........

[deadmanwalking814]

Go to www.ensignmessage.com/archives/porkfacts.html & I`m done. May God Bless. P.S.I hope the forum allows my signoff.

[GSDgirl]

Listen, you eat what you want and I will eat as organically as I possibly can.

[Dee1956]

Hi I know this post is old so I may not get an answer but thought I would try, what is the protein that you changed to from Whey?
Thank you

[evangelin]

The kind I am giving Joe right now is called Superwhey Ultimate Wellness Shake.  The company name is advanced Life Research.  
Blessings,
Ev

[Dee1956]

Thank you so very much for the reply,