kissing?

my father has stage 4 hep c. can this be passed by a routine kiss to me or my kids?

[nygirl7]

hep is passed blood to blood so the answer is NO!

[Trinity4]

Give you Dad all the kisses you can.

[pjhep80]

NO!!!

[HCA]

I could give you all the scientific references on this,but no need to waste your time or mine!
The answer is NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Even sexual transmission between monogamous couples is 'extremely low or even null' and condom use is not specifially recommended.
No need to make the old man feel like a pariah-relax and forget this particular 'problem'

[DragonSlayer45]

In fact if your Dad has Hep C and is stage 4 which is Cirrhosis I would suggest that give him all the hugs and kisses you can. I am willing to bet he could really use it right now.

[Kerfluffle]

In answer to your question regarding the spread of HepC through kissing.  All of what I will  write  below assumes that he is carrying an active viral load (which you need a blood test to determine).   As others have pointed out here it is very unlikely that it could be spread through kissing however if your father had a cut on his lip and you or your child also had a lesion, the chances are greatly increased.

HepC can be spread by sharing a razor or manicure tools (clippers) or any implements where blood  could possibly be involved.  If your father has a cut on his hand and isn't careful to put a band-aid on it - it could conceivable be spread to you or your children assuming that they have an open sore on their body (and what child doesn't?)  The latest information that I have seen says that the virus can live outside of the body for several days.  

So as long as your father is infectious, meaning he has a viral load , there are several ways that he could spread the virus.  It is a low probability but if you look on this very forum in a thread called "New Tread ? I'm not sure..." a woman writes in to say how her  partner, who did not tell her that he had HepC, transmitted it to her within a six month time frame.  Yes, it is likely that the transmission was sexual - but that also has a very low probability of transmission.  She tells in that thread about an incident where her lover cut his hand and she helped him clean and bandage the wound.

The only way to not be transmissible is to get successfully treated.

So , to expand on your question a bit , it is very unlikely that a kiss alone can spread the disease but you should be aware of the other ways that he could transmit the virus to you or your children.

[R Glass]

He needs a show of affection from you now more than ever.
I have been married now for 25+ years and raised 3 kids. My wife and kids tested negative.

[Marcia2202]

No, it cannot be passed by a routine kiss. Hep c is a blood borne disease.

You can enjoy kissing and hugging your Dad as usual. He does need his family now more than ever.

I personally have witnessed that my own family has gotten even closer, since I was diagnosed a while ago.

I hope your dad will get better.

Marcia

[Kerfluffle]

To avoid any confusion, HepC can not be passed by a routine kiss if there are no breaks in the skin in either the infectious person or the recipient and no saliva is being exchanged which would be the case in a family type kiss.

Normally we don't have anything to worry about.  It is the unusual situations that warrant concern.  However if the infectious person is not completely normal then problems can develop - such as if the infectious person has bleeding gums.  To quote from a few sources (that deal more with deep kissing but still are relevant)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.hcvadvocate.org/hepatitis/factsheets_pdf/sextrans_%202006.pdf

To reduce the risk of HCV transmission during oral sex or deep kissing, practice regular good oral hygiene — healthy teeth and gums may be the best defense against the spread of diseases through the mouth. Many experts recommend that people avoid brushing or flossing their teeth right before or after oral sex or deep kissing, since these can cause bleeding gums and tiny abrasions.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/4390.php

The potentially fatal hepatitis C virus could be passed on by kissing or sharing toothbrushes, a study suggests.

Researchers in the United States say they have found traces of the virus in the saliva of people with hepatitis C.

They believe the saliva may be infectious and that people with the virus could pass it on to others.

Speaking at the Interscience Conference on Antimicrobial Agents in Chicago, they said people with gum disease may be most at risk.

Millions affected

------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://www.ccfcme.org/medicalpubs/HEPc/faq/faqvol1.htm

Is it OK to kiss?

There is no scientific evidence to suggest that hepatitis C is transmitted through kissing; therefore kissing is OK. We suggest avoidance of kissing if one of the two individuals has a sore or open lesion in the mouth or on the lips.

-------------------------------------------------------

http://www.hepatitis-central.com/mt/archives/2007/03/can_saliva_tran.html

. In September of 2003, evidence that saliva contains the Hepatitis C virus was disclosed at the Interscience Conference on Antimicrobial Agents and Chemotherapy. Scientists from the University of Washington in Seattle concluded that while saliva may be infectious, the strongest predictor of viral presence in the saliva is serum viral load.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

These are somewhat unusual situations however there is discussion out there either way so it pays to be informed.

[rita863]

Give your Dad hugs and kisses!!!

[Trinity4]

Had a few husbands, lots of passion - lot's of passionate kissing - no one has hepc but me.  Kiss your Dad as much as you want to - he need it.
Trin

[Kerfluffle]

Oh hey - I found a few more references - get's kind of scary the more that you look them up!

---------------------------------------------
http://www.rense.com/general63/dew.htm

Saliva May Have Infectious Amounts Of HCV In Presence Of High HCV Viral Load And Gum Disease

"This study suggests that the saliva of individuals infected with hepatitis C may be infectious."

------------------------------------------------

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/77002599/abstract

There was a correlation between qualitative saliva and serum results (P = 0.003), but not between quantifications (P = 0.57). This first study reporting significant amounts of HCV RNA in saliva could have important implications for HCV epidemiology. J. Med. Virol. 63:117-119, 2001. © 2001 Wiley-Liss, Inc.

--------------------------------------------------

http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/full/122/7/556

n fact, the presence of HCV in saliva may only reflect contamination of saliva with plasma, but it may also have a role in horizontal nonblood transmission of the virus, the mechanisms of which remain largely unknown.

--------------------------------------------------------

[Trinity4]

No matter what you read on here -  studies are studies - they do not always correlate to actual facts - they are opinions based on information conducted by groups for the sole purpose of presenting different viewpoints - which is not 100% accepted by all experts in the treatment and transmission of hepc.  In the case of your Dad who is obviously suffering and needs as much love and support as possible, don't be scared by what you read or overly concerned with becoming infected with this disease from a simple show of affection.  Give you Dad a kiss for me!
Trinity

[Kerfluffle]

Sorry about the double posting - something must be screwing up in my browser.  Sorry about those two identical posts.

[Trinity4]

And to caveat on what I just said - those that have no experience on this board and contantly cite study after study rather than speaking from personal experience become tedious and annoying.  It becomes a widely accepted practice to just to ignore what most of us already know who have already been around the bush a few times.

[desrt]

Amen.

Not sharing toothbrushes and razors makes sense, but my ex used to use mine and has never tested +, so even that is a problematic route of transmission.
To become obsessive/compulsive over saliva is a little much.

[Kerfluffle]

Maybe or maybe not.  I start wondering though when I start seeing all these accredited University researchers with more degrees than my thermometer start saying that "Well... there might be an issue here".  

The common "wisdom" that I have listened to so far has been that I can't give this to anyone else by kissing.  And I believed that until this week.  Now I find that people who know what they are actually talking about are starting to be concerned and furthermore I am finding that, unlike what some people told me before , the possibility of transmission from saliva isn't really "low", it's just "unknown" at best.

My brothers and sisters have children that I am going to be a lot more careful with from now on until I start and finish treatment and I know for a fact that by blood levels are zero for this virus..  Yo know, if I had a silly cold, I'd take the precaution of not infecting someone imagine how much more important it must be with this virus!  I know , I know...it's pretty easy to transfer on a cold but it's pretty hard to transfer on this virus (by kissing anyway).  But then again a cold doesn't kill you.

I know for a fact that I've seen my gums bleed this year (got to go to a dentist) and I'm not going to risk it.  Research is being done all the time by people who  have studied the issue and, for me, I'm going to make it a point to start listening to them rather then what "pearls of wisdom" seem to be making the rounds of the internet   today.

[desrt]

Right, learned studies like the one that showed a 3-5% rate of sexual transmission that was solemnly quoted for years on the internet. Then they went back and all the couples who'd supposedly contracted it from their partner had different genotypes or different strains of the same genotype.
Oops

[Kerfluffle]

I'm not sure what I can tell you.  If you want to disbelieve every study ever published just because you know of some that are wrong - that's an option of course.  If you want to believe what some unknown person says on the internet and take that as truth well you're not alone there Buddy!  And by the way I have some funds in a bank that you can help me get to and I'll even give you a cut but we'll talk about that later.

Me, I'll go with established research from professionals who have credentials.  Hey but what do I know and I'm int he minority after all. Now about those funds - here's what I need ............

[alagirl]

I am posting this over here because posting over there would have further upset her, but you know, it takes a really sick person to gripe about a topic being reposted or about people praying for and with a woman whose son is so critical.  There is no such thing as forum "spamming" here.  You'll notice these two hep c and hep social forums aren't moderated.  This IS "our" forum.  The forum of the users.  And "we" the people bumping that post?  We are the users.  More specifically, we are any and all of the users minus you.  So I don't know where you THINK you got off, but you need to recalculate.  Because Elaine and her son have been with this forum and with ALL of us for a long time.  We love them and care about them.  

You could have, should have, and any compassionate person would have, left well enough alone on that particular topic.  This is about her and us, and her son.  And I don't care if you saw it 150 times in a row, the hepatitis social forum is for hepatitis support and the members can use it as we see fit.

Mostly though, I just can't bring myself to get past your pettiness.  I do not care what interesting case you bring up, what kind of treatment you need, or how bad your side effects are on your worst day.  I will not lift one finger to support you, or to answer your questions, or to help you, because I will never be able to forgive you for making that wonderful woman's suffering just that much more difficult at the worst time in her life by bringiing up your petty and spiteful comments and causing her more pain as she was grieving and as this forum was trying to support her.  Truly, I'm not all that certain why anyone else would go out of their way to help you out either.  

[Trinity4]

Don't worry alagirl, MedHelp threw him off and we are all very glad.

[Marcia2202]

Thank you for that wonderful piece of info, I was wondering why he had stopped posting. He might come back in a new disguise though.

alagirl

That was the most insensitive and rude person I have ever 'seen'. Be int online or offline. What he did on that thread is inexcusable.

Marcia

[Trinity4]

I think because of the time difference you might have missed his latest attempt to spread dissension through out the forum.  It was rezin8's 7/22 post "a rant about side effects".  He basically called everyone who is going through tx a liar and an idiot. He was very condescending and I was starting to prepare for battle because at that point I didn't care if I was thrown off my MedHelp - I was going to let him have it.   I immediately reported his post as abuse and about 5 minutes later his post was gone and he hasn't been back since and I hope he NEVER does.  All of my time on this forum, I've never encountered anyone like that.  It's a shame we have to monitored but it's also a good thing when those types show up.
Trin

[Marcia2202]

OMG, I'm glad I missed that. I can turn into a dragon sometimes myself and it could have gotten real ugly. I did go to sleep after I wrote you my last message. I personally don't mind being monitored, if it's for the good of everyone, why not. Especially when something like this happens. Anyway, with nowadays' technology, they could be monitoring us going down to the superparket to buy some groceries. :-(

Marcia

[jdwithhcv]

These days with the brain fog I could use some monitoring at the supermarket, maybe that way I could actually find things and maybe remember my shopping list!

I expect Kerfluffle to return after his 3 days in solitary confinement so be on the lookout!

jd

[alagirl]

well i didn't know if they would throw him off and i just figured if they didn't or how about this, if and when he DOES come back under the same or some other guise, maybe we can all decide together to shun him.  That will be my personal policy in any case.  

It was just so upsetting for me to what happened and then to see Elaine, wonderful and sensitive person that she is, APOLOGIZE to HIM! in the midst of what was happening with her and Nick, that it just tore my heart and made my blood boil at the same time.  I think I would have done violence if I could have gotten through my computer screen.  It made me so sick to my stomach.  I'm sitting here sobbing right now just thinking about it.  Its so wrong that her time during that moment was marred by any additional hurt - I just - I know we all feel very protective of her, as evidenced by how you guys had already taken care of getting this guy silenced, and I don't know, I'm starting to ramble, but I'm just so touched by this special place with all of the special people here, and I always feel grateful to know all of you.

[Trinity4]

Ditto alagirl - we love you too.