life expectancy hepc

[rockey]

i was diagnosed with hep c when i was 20 im 25 now i also have gout in the feet im a social drinker on average what would be the life expectancy of a person in my position

[copyman]

hard to say rocky, this disease affects everyone differently. nothing is the same with this disease. one thing is certain , if you drink ANY alcohol you are shortening your life with HCV.

[gazebo1]

Sounds like you should take some critical action steps beginning with talking with a doctor right away. Many factors to evaluate, but should get information now. Waiting longer could be a bad mistake.  Good luck and do not drink any more ever. There is no "social" drinking with HCV.  G.

[big bloc]

I had a buddy that had HCV said TX cost too much and made you tired.He didnt quit drinking said he felt fine. He passed away last feb.Talk about a wake up call

[HepCBoy]

Life expectancy for someone with hep c is just the same as for someone without.

Life expectancy for someone diagnosed with compensated Cirrhosis is around 15-20 years, once you decomp about 1/2 will be dead within 2 years.

The easiest way to get Cirrhosis is to have hep c and drink alcohol.

[SnoWav]

Rock it is not the end of the world or the end of being able to have a fantastic life. I have had hep c and b for around 35 yrs
was a social drinker for 32 of those yrs. I am so greatful that I diden't know I had the virus for 30 of those yrs I might have been too worried about the virus to have had all my wonderful children. Once you know then it is always in the back of your mind. I tried 48 wks of the popular posion It did do me some good but I diden't clear. Holding out for the new drugs,
ROCK ON

[jmjm530]

You can expect more or less a normal life expectancy if you don't develop serious liver damage.

Social drinking should not be a problem per "Monto" article (fifth down) but heavy drinking can damage your liver so make sure you're not deceiving yourself regarding how much you drink.
http://www.clevelandclinicmeded.com/hcv/litreview1.htm

Most of us here have no medical background, so see a liver speicialist (hepatologist) for medical advice and to diagnose and monitor the condition of your liver. Hepatologist are usually found at your larger, teaching hospitals. They may want you to treat or simply keep an eye on things and wait for newer drugs.

HCV is not the end of the world. I didn't know I had it for over 30 years and had a pretty normal life. Treated last year and now I'm clear of the virus.

Treatment has its risks just like Hep C, so the risks of one have to be weighed against the risk of the other.

All the best,

-- Jim

[Kalio1]

I wish you would stop telling people that "social drinking" is OK if you have Hep C. First off, you have no idea what is meant by "social drinking" You have no way of knowing what "social" means to any given individual. This particular individual who is asking gives NO INFO. on their condition, so suggesting it is OK to socially drink is even more dangerous. if he has Hep C NO ALCOHOL is the ONLY safe way to deal with alcohol.

You always post the same measly article where ONE doctor claims it is OK but never post the 100's of articles saying that NO ALCOHOL for anyone with Hep C or a damaged liver is far superior and you wonder why people think you encourage alcohol use. It would be one thing if you posted a balanced view at least instead of always giving the message that some alcohol is OK when it is NOT KNOWN exactly what a "safe" amount is. There is NO safe amount that can be verified.

You are the ONLY person on this board who tells people it is OK to drink with Hep C. It is not a good idea to drink AT ALL when you have Hep C, as studies show it can hasten this disease.

[jmjm530]

Kalio: I wish you would stop telling people that ...
-----------------
I wish you would stop personalizing everything as is your habit and simply make your points, arguments on a given subject. As to "balanced", you are probably one of the most unbalanced and opinionated posters here.

-- Jim

[Terrylee8]

I am 90% sure that I contacied Hep C in 1968 when I was 21 years old.  It was a year of shooting heroin and 10 days in the hospital with Hep B.  It's now 38 years later and I have moderate liver damage.  I drank alot until I quit 15 years ago.  Everyone is different but if you don't drink and get tested, chances are you have a long and healthy life ahead of you

[SnoWav]

Let me be the second person on the board then that as long as your liver is in pretty good shape thinks and was told by two different docs that a little social drinking is fine. There are risks in everything pick your posion and live your life. Cheers

[HCA]

I can't help commenting on the number of posts I have read stating;
"Alcohol is rocket fuel for hep C!!!"
"Drinking with hep C is like pouring gasoline on a fire"
Where do these experts get there information?
From other alarmists,but not from research.
My personal belief is don't drink,but that 2 or 3 units a week won't make any difference to disease progression.
My doctor says have the odd one,but I don't.
Some authorities suggest that cardiac benefits of a little red wine outweigh the possible downside even in HVC patients.

[ladybug52]

You sound like me! I had hepc for along time before I found out. Actually when I did find out the general opinion between 3 dr.s was not to worry about it, I had good liver enzymes. That was in the 90's and medicine has come a long ways since then. I already had 4 kids and enjoyed life while I lived in ignorant bliss, yes, drinking socially too. My kids and husband are all negative, thank God. I'm a geno 2 and on week 7 of 24.
Rock: I'm not advocating drinking, I was lucky I had minimal liver damage but everyone is different. You mention the gout and I wonder if you have another side effect of hep c or it's non-related. Find out what type of hepc you have as far as genotype and what the biopsy report shows for liver damage. That can give you a better idea of life expectancy. You are so young this is the time to try and treat and get better!
Godd luck
Bug

[traveler65]

Rock: you are young and probably only have had HEPC a short time. Get a good doc and get it taken care of. Nobody really knows how it will progress.
I really wonder when people say they had it for over 35 years if it is really true. Just because someone had a transfusion or did IV drugs a few times 35 years ago does not mean that that is when they got HEPC unless they actually experienced acute symptoms at that time. They may have gotten it only 10 or 15 years ago from something else. There are studies that show anyone drinking heavily has a good chance of getting HEPC.
My doc says I probably got it in the military (vietnam era)30 years ago. I was a heavy drinker up until 10 years ago, who knows especially if you can get it from a razor or a toothbrush not to mention a cut during an accident or bar fight where two peoples blood come together, or at the dentist.
Sorry for going on. Whenever you got it the best thing is to try and get rid of it ASAP.

[ladybug52]

Aww Rev it's good to hear from you. You're not doing the math right with snowav unless you were kidding and it went over my head. If she got this in '71 then drank for 32 years until 2003 who knows how old she was when she started or quit? We're not all spring chickens!
Bug

[jmjm530]

Rev: Jim she nailed you up there with the comment >> "You always post the same measly article where ONE doctor claims it is OK but never post the 100's of articles saying that NO ALCOHOL for anyone with Hep C or a damaged liver is far superior and you wonder why people think you encourage alcohol use."
---------------------------------------------
Actually, I've posted a couple of articles, but equally important, referenced several leading hepatologist's in their opinions. Dr. D and Dr. C who post frequently in the net and anecdotal reports I've read at Janis regarding a very famous Miami doctor. You can reference some of it in this previous thread:
http://www.medhelp.org/forums/Hepatitis/messages/42065.html

You will probably find that the "100's" of articles you reference, either were derived from data that lumped heavy drinking with social drinking or are specific to heavy drinking.

I'd also like to clear up the misconception that I'm somehow "encouraging alcohol use". Providing information to balance out a discussion is not the same as encouraging alcohol use but simply to put out more information so people can make up their own minds.

You will note that in the "measley" study commentary I posted the following concluding statement: "Alcohol abstinence may be the safest course of action, but an occasional drink appears not to harm the liver in those infected with HCV."  It says, alcohol abstience *may* be the safest course of action...." so it is not like I am somehow hiding or avoiding anything as has been suggested. If I was, I wouldn't have linked the article.

-- Jim

[orphanedhawk]

My friend went to a top Hep C researcher/MD. He showed her photos from under the microscope of what happens when you put alcohol with the hep C virus. They think its orgy time. Then he showed her what happened with coffee. They shrunk away.
    If you are concerned about your liver, stop drinking alcohol and drink tons of coffee. I am not kidding!!

[chcnme]

It's a simple concept on the booze with Hep C.  If you want to be well living with Hep C, stop drinking altogether.  You've come to a Hep C forum and have said you were diagnosed at 20 and you're now 25 and drink socially and have gout. You're bound to be wondering about Hep C and drinking or you wouldn't have asked the question.  Alcohol and gout don't mix, either.  You have two good reasons to put the booze down.

[GrandOak]

Preach it Rev.  It may be jumping to conclusions, but I think one will find that those trying to justify their drinking as merely being "social" are perhaps dealing with alcoholism to some degree or another.  If it is purely "social", then they can take it or leave it with no compulsion.  Why continue to strive to find a re-enforcing opinion despite the numerous advice to the contrary?  If I'm not mistaken, and any counselor's present please speak up, this is the classic definition I've heard given for the behavior of an addict.

I've been told by two respectable doctors in this field, evidenced by their writings on HCV and positions held in leading liver organzations, that alcohol should not be mixed with HCV.  Granted, I'm a Stage 4 which presents an ever strong case for any consumption.  But for people to say it's O.K. "socially" without knowing a person's definition of "social" and when several studies and doctors say no, especially without knowing their particular situation or the state of the liver, seems to be ill advisement.

Ask most alcoholics and they will probably tell you that their addiction was "social" (i.e. they believed that they could not "socially" function without it ;-)

[GrandOak]

Then again, what's the use?  Bottoms up 'til your toes up or It's better to burn out than to simply fade away!

[jmjm530]

GO: But for people to say it's O.K. "socially" without knowing a person's definition of "social" and when several studies and doctors say no, especially without knowing their particular situation or the state of the liver, seems to be ill advisement.
----------------------------------------------------------------
If you re-read my post, you will see that "social drinking" is quite specficially defined per the Monto article. I post my comment again in context:

"Social drinking should not be a problem per "Monto" article (fifth down) but heavy drinking can damage your liver so make sure you're not deceiving yourself regarding how much you drink."I also told the poster to see a liver specialist (hepatologist) for medical advice.

You will also note (above) that I warn the poster about "not deceiving" himself in regard to how much he drinks. Further, I suggested he see a liver specialist for medical advice.

On this particular issue, I don't think it's so much a matter that myself and some others don't offer a balanced point of view, but in fact that we offer ANY point of view that differs from what you think.

It is obvious from what has been posted, that there appears to be a difference of opinion among doctors themselves on this issue. To brand a group of people "alchoholics" because they repeat offer one side the discussion, tells me more about those that are doing the labeling than those being labled.

-- Jim

[ladybug52]

"There are studies that show anyone drinking heavily has a good chance of getting HEPC."
What does drinking have to do with aquiring hepC? I know that drinking can increase liver damage with hepc, but what studies show it can cause it?
Bug

[ladybug52]

Don't you mean if you wer NOT married and just had twins etc?
How's Janus and Janice?
Bug

[jmjm530]

Rev, Well, that makes a little more sense then, but not always easy to tell with you. BTW a belated congratulations on having twins! I'm sure you've mentioned it before, but a few memory gaps when treating. I think part of the reason -- and only part -- why some of us get different feedback from our doctors on this issue has to do with: liver histology; our past drinking habits (or how our doctors perceive them); and perhaps to some degree how we couch the question. Doctor oft tend to be paternalistic during our short visits, so a "Don't even think of having a drop of alcohol" or "A couple of beers a week won't hurt you" will often replace more complex and in-depth discussion -- including current literature -- unless initiated by the patient.  

-- Jim

[mr.pink]

Are there any studies about the coffee claim?

[copyman]

i have not had any alcohol since i found out i had hcv. before that i use to drink one or two times a week. since i quit my cholesterol has progressively got worse. both hep docs & pcp i see have said to have a "1/2" glass of wine a day. i have not done it yet but seriously considering it. i think a few drinks a week with hcv will not matter one way or the other. what i do think will matter more then alcohol is the people that take tylenol every day or other liver damaging meds, this is doing more liver damage then a few drinks a week.

[ladybug52]

You both have me scared. I have tried to avoid tylenol but was told it was better than the NSAIDS with hgb low. I am constantly running fever and am anemic which can cause headaches. I take a clonazepam in the evening because that's usually when I'm started to flip out and think negative thoughts. I've heard of a lot of people who take zanax and I thought the clonazepam was safer and less habit forming. (according to my PCP) I give up a lot to treat, I hate to be a baby but I'd hate to think those two drugs are hurting my chance for svr. I guess I'll talk to my doctor next appt. Thanks for the info....I guess!
Bug

[ladybug52]

Rocky doesn't seem near as interested in this conversation as the rest of us.:)

[Teufelhunden]

check out this web site. www.hcvets.com

[Alady1620]

I believe I contracted the disease when I was 18 and I am now 35 with a normal liver.  The disease does progress differently in different people so it is imperative that you lead a liver friendly life.  The advice about alcohol is good.  Also, avoid Tylenol and pretty much all other medications.  A doctor told me that any medicine that ends with 'pam' reaks havoc on the liver.  This would include many anti-anxiety meds and pain killers.  

Have you considered treating?

[traveler65]

I read that in many cases the only risk factor for HCV was heavy alchohol use. Also read that heavy alchohol use makes you more susceptible to contracting HCV as it suppresses your immune system. Do a Google search for "alcholhol and hcv progression" there are many articles out there.

[Pdilly]

WIth all the posts on the subject of drinking...it is your decision.  Make it wisely...talk to your doctor.

[ladybug52]

I googled it to prove you  were wrong and found there are some sudies to back up your statement.
http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh25-4/245-254.htm
What a surprise as it puts the chicken before the egg. Thanks for the info.
Bug

[Cindy10]

Here, here!

[ladybug52]

Rev: LOL!  I thought you had FMLA? Are you working at home or have a project going? Thanks for the kind supportive comments! Miss that wit when you're busy doing other things.
Copyman: Thanks, it's become so difficult to decide what will hurt my tx and what will keep my sanity! Not trying to whine (just am!)
Bug

[copyman]

hey lady, i did not mean to scare you or anyone. what i meant was the people that are not on tx that know or dont know they have hcv that take meds every day. over time this can cause just as much and sometimes even more damage then alcohol can. when on tx for hcv it is a whole different story, you take whatever meds is needed to make it easier to finish. best of luck

[GrandOak]

Perhaps you're right.  Guess I've seen to many rooms full of social drinkers and HCV support meetings where doctors are delaying treatment because of the social drinking.  I've also listened to them at HCV support groups trying to understand why doctor is delaying treatment because of their social drinking because they've seen somewhere on the internet that it's OK.

I suppose I've also heard to many testimonies of how diagnosis of HCV was delayed because elevated LFT's where thought to be due to the social drinks and only when total abstinence for a period had occurred did other tests get run to diagnose other possibilities for them.

The real sad fact, as I previously pointed out, is that those with a real social drinking problem will justify it by grabbing that one study, statement, etc. which re-affirms that their behavior is acceptable whilst ignoring the mountain of facts which tells them otherwise.  Also seen many who continued or relapsed themselves right into a dirt nap.

I see that it's a bit more than:

"On this particular issue, I don't think it's so much a matter that myself and some others don't offer a balanced point of view, but in fact that we offer ANY point of view that differs from what you think."

but more a coming to realize that those struggling with addictions often times do not look at:

"Providing information to balance out a discussion is not the same as encouraging alcohol use but simply to put out more information so people can make up their own minds."

often times not weighing the balance to clearly rationalize which way the scales tip in their situation.

[GrandOak]

I'm hanging in there, occasionally battling the peripheral edema.  I found out last week that it sounds like based upon the dosages of rescue meds required to get me through 10 months of tx last year before being tagged a nonresponder that I am not pretty much inelligible for any trials.  Only option seems to be to wait for new meds or transplant, which ever comes first.

HCV, Gout, and alcohol in the opening post sounded rather fishy.  Guess it left out pot, herbs, smoking, and faith to really set the barn ablaze.

Helping directly in a treatment center and alongside many others here in what seems to be the recovery capitol of the world, I encounter folks always looking for a nugget to grab that justifies their pattern. Nearly all claim to be social drinkers until they come to grip with the fact that they have a real problem.

Aside from most recommendations saying no alcohol if you have HCV, providing them these nuggets in order to be fair and balanced does not make much sense to me.  Particularily when the definition of addiction is "persistent compulsive use of a substance known by the user to be harmful".

Oh well, if some folks think it's OK to encourage it I guess that's their perogative.

Hope things are working out for you and some options of clearing become available.

[jmjm530]

Rev: The thing that stood out in this whole thread to me were the studies done by, or with, the NIH/CDC that showed any "alcohol increases the activity of a protein that triggers the virus to make new copies of itself. These new copies speed the progress of the infection and raise the risk of liver damage."...
Even after that, as if either it didn't register or didn't matter, people were adding two cents. I don't get it.
-----------------------------------------------------
I didn't want to keep going with a battle of the studies but since you've made this point several times I think best to address rather for you to somehow feel I'm avoiding your question. Here is a more recent study that contradicts the above entitled "Alcohol has no effect on hepatitis C virus replication: a meta-analysis" It was one of the studies I referenced in my post "C16" above per an earlier thread. Abstract here: http://tinyurl.com/nkqty
I'm not saying that one study is better than another but I assume the doctors I've consulted are aware of both. I also believe your study emphasized *heavy* drinking but not sure.

GO: I understand what you say. In a similar/dissimilar fashion, many of us here have struggled with for example reporting negative treatment experiences which may in some way may discourage some from either treating or lessen their resolve once in treatment. I think where we came out is that it's best to lay out the situation as we best know it and let people make up their own minds. I do understand that some here may have had previous drinking problems or may have current problems and not recognize them. I still see that as a separate issue from what was originally asked and discussed. If someone here, or a doctor, says it's OK for patient "X" to have a couple of beers a week, then I don't think it's the doctors fault if patient "X" takes that as a green light to go out and binge drink. Just my thoughts.

Have no wish to take this any further but wish you and Rev well.

-- Jim

[Forseegood]

this has been discussed to death, but I do see that there are a whole lot of new members, and the archives here are a little problematic (to me anyway) so I'll wade in with my usual...

I just don't see how anyone (including a doc, no matter how renown, I've had problems with other advice I have seen from "renown" docs) can say that it is okay to drink, say, 3 drinks a week while you have this disease....how can this information be quantifiable? We've all seen the studies that say "women" metabolize alcohol differently then men, prob because we carry more "body fat" and when you have more "body fat" the alcohol will tend to stay in the system longer in the fatty tissues...or something to this effect...conflicting studies mean that they just don't really understand this type of stuff - to a high degree....to me anyway....

So alcohol might effect me differently then it will effect someone else...who knows for sure? The only constant we have in this equasion is that we have liver disease, and that alcohol is a known toxin to the liver...there is "no way" of telling how much one person can get away with, as opposed to another, while having this disease....

So they ( a few experts) take an educated guess that a few drinks a week won't hurt, how can they possibly know for sure? "Maybe" it might not effect John, but it will effect Bill? How can something with sooooo many variables be quantified, with any degree of accuracy, from person to person?

Moreover, do we all know exactly our liver disease is progressing? We've had threads before discussing how it's darn hard to get a completely accurate overview on our individual liver disease, so we need to throw in a "wild card" like alcohol consumption into the equasion? Why not wait till after your SVR to drink your few drinks per week, is the irritation of 'going without' while your ill with this really worth the risk?

So, with the few elements that we do know something about with a lot more accuracy, that we have liver disease, and that alcohol is a known toxin to the liver....isn't it only fitting that we err on the side of caution? I mean, we do have a potentially deadly disease, and who knowns who is going to clear with the present SOC, is it really worth it to anyone to try your luck with some fixed number of drinks per week? I guess it is to some, that's pretty apparent, all I mean to say is that I just don't understand that way of thinking...and I don't think erring on the side of caution with a potentially deadly liver disease makes me an alarmist...in this regard anyhow...

[Forseegood]

also, I'd like to see where it says that a few glasses of red wine benefits outweigh the downside of alcohol in a hep c infected person, no offense to anyone, but some of the things that get thrown around here are just mystifying to me...

We have Hepatitis, (those of us who are not SVR) the game is completely different for us then a person without liver disease, sad but true...if a doctor has a problem with that, it's not his/her liver that he/she is playing with, it's ours...most docs don't have this disease so I don't see where they have much on the line here, except to give out opinions, in this regard anyway...

it's our individual health on the line here, not theirs...

[FlGuy]

Too bad no one has answered your question. When you are social drinking, do you also drive an automobile?  Do you smoke, eat well, skydive, cross in the middle of the block?  Do you exercise, get rest, have a passion to do something when you wake in the morninng? Is your idea of a useful pursuit to sit around your house in your underwear and watch the world pass by your window?  How long do you want to live?  It's really up to you.

[Forseegood]

hi Floida Man, hope youre doing well, I think of you and your family...I hope youre having a better time this time then last..

[FlGuy]

All is not so bad. Making an effort to be less pitiful and some new subject matter at work piques the interest.  Big diff, I think, is from a change in Peg from the first go-round.  Family is good and the rites of spring (softball leagues and SATs) are here again.  Just trying to stay in a serviceable groove.  I had a call last week about my interest in a trial using Abluferon, instead of peg.  This may be of interest, fewer shots!

[LipStick1959]

I have Hep C, I'm in stage 2 of Liver Damage, I believe I am genotype A or 1... I'm not too informed, my reading & sitting days are too painful to search the internet anymore. I am a recovering drug addict. I have only 2 months of the Peg & Ribo treatment left, with a 1 % chance of it helping me. I am scared, and I came here by asking about "Life exectancy" Is anyone here knowledgible enough to at least give me a round about number? Just a guess would be great. I am forcing myself to eat 3 x a day, taking vitamins, and I've cut back on my smoking...but I am so tired & weak. I am one of those who has sit back the last 3 years & let Life pass me by. Can anyone give me an answer...or be willing to try? Is there anything out there I should be taking..like Milk Thistle for my Liver? Please help me.    LipStick1959 at Hotmail

[stacyb321]

I found these posts to be very interesting.  Up until April when i was dx with Hep c I used to have a glass of red wine 4-5 times a week and because of it my blood tests show i have great Cholesterol, triglycerides and HDL cholesterol. Infact they are the best a person could have - but now im worried how much damage has it done to my liver?  It will be interesting to find out next month when i get my bx.  We shall see.

Stacy

[new-sojourn]

Well, if you have gout, that's a problem that will only get worse whether you drink or have hep c.

That's one problem.

I got hep c in 1967 from a transfusions and can see how it affected my life and relationships.

Drinking and hep c and gout are 3 problems.

you can get rid of the hep c, quit drinking for years-7+=and still have gout.

You can clear hep c-I did in 5-2002 on interferon-3x wk shoots-and riba-  and you can quit drinking...

or you can tackel one or two of the health problemsb/gout will stick w/you even if you are virus free and alcohol free....

b/if younliver hurts after drinking or sugar binging-all the same to the liver-that's whhen to quit and if your feet are hurting, that's a whole nother problem w/a whole nother diet!

[meki]

Lipstick - You sound like you're doing the right thing - and you know --- it's all good. Chill and enjoy life.

Treatment is tough... it's hard and you feel old before your time - I'm 5 mnths post TX - and I'm just starting to feel better.

And you have a better than 1% chance. -- 3 years have passed you by... Great--- you took a mini vacation.

Now when you feel better get off yer duff and do some fun things! Find life all over again.

Who knows how long you'll live --- depends on your level of damage --- however... you could be walking down the road and Godzilla could step on you tonight. So it doesn't really matter.

Most people with HCV live normal lives until their liver starts to take damage. After Treatment - most are SVR (those of Geno 1a sometimes have a rougher road and a longer one...) and it takes about 6 months to a year to clear most side effects...

And those side effects are doosies... let me tell you - don't think this is how you're going to feel - cause you won't... I didn't.

I still feel aches and pains... But nothing like the OVERWHELMING EYEORE DROOPY CLOUDED THINKING HORRIBLE ACHES AND FATIGUE times like I had during TX.

And if I --- the biggest weenie ever roasted.... If I can do it --- then you -- someone who has recovered from drugs (what a fantastic achievement!!!! That's more amazing than I've ever done...I can't even say that I know I could do that... I've never done drugs --- but I've seen what strength it takes for people to clean themselves up!) If I can do it --- then you most certainly can.

Don't be sitting there worried - enjoy what you have --- and while you have it!

In fact --- pull your head out of those murky clouds --- and quit worrying --- if you're doing what you can to remain healthy - not drinking alcohol - and maybe starting some exercise --- you should be doing fine.

I can't promise a long life --- but most people who have cured or gone SVR live normal healthy lives... And even some people who have HCV but never cleared - and maintained little damage --- those folks live fairly normal.

So keep your head up!

Meki

[MrsOckert]

I read the article you referenced and I think you may have gotten a couple things confused.

Someone jump in here if I'm wrong.  Certainly don't want to be providing inaccurate info....

The article says "HCV-related cirrhosis (with its associated complications, such as liver cancer) is a major cause of death, although it develops slowly and occurs only in approximately one-third of HCV-infected patients. Alcohol can exacerbate HCV infection and the associated liver damage by causing oxidative stress and promoting fibrosis, thereby accelerating disease progression to cirrhosis. Furthermore, alcohol may exacerbate the side-effects associated with current antiviral treatment of HCV infection and impair ...."

Alcohol can exacerbate HCV - exacerbate means to make worse an already underlying condition.  Alcohol DOES NOT CAUSE Hepatitius C (or A or B for that matter).

The next paragraph "Hepatitis is an inflammation of the liver that is characterized by jaundice, liver enlargement, abdominal and gastric discomfort, abnormal liver function, and other symptoms. Although in many patients the diseased liver is able to regenerate its tissue and retain its function, severe hepatitis may progress to scarring of the liver tissue (i.e., fibrosis), cirrhosis, liver cancer (i.e., hepatocellular carcinoma), and chronic liver dysfunction. Hepatitis can have numerous causes, such as excessive alcohol consumption or infection by certain bacteria or viruses. One common cause of hepatitis is infection with one of several types of viruses (e.g., hepatitis A, B, or C viruses). With the development of ...."

The key phrase here is "Hepatitis can have numerous causes, such as excessive alchohol consumption..."

Don't get the word/condition hepatitis confused with the disease Hepatitis C.  They are not the same thing....they only refer to the same body part; i.e. the liver.  Hep researchers were not the most creative in naming new viruses, so we didn't get any of the cool names like Ebola or Shermack's disease or whatever.

Forgive me if I'm out of line here .... cause what I thought I was reading from your posts was that drinking alcohol causes Hep C and it doesn't.  It does cause the condition hepatitis in your liver.

[LipStick1959]

Thanks for your kind words... I am almost threw with the years meds, and it has been horrible. I went from a really nice looking woman to a pale, skeleton with little desire for anything, tho I still push myself. I haven't dated but once, for about a year, in the past 7 years or so...because I know that if I mention Hep C, which I hve to a few folks who I was hoping to start a relationship... the dust cloud they left by the end of my sentence pretty well made me feel like a worthless piece of diseased **** that doesn't deserve to have a Life. It could be these meds, but I get so lonely for someone to just go out & eat with, but I can't do it anymore, because the dust pile is inevitible, and that knocks me into a horrid state of mind, so I guess I have just accepted this Life, & pray everynight that "Tomorrow" will not come for me... I hate it this all, but I have no one to blame but myself. I've enjoyed your correspondance tremendously, I haven't felt comfortable talking about this to anyone but my 27 year old daughter, who is my biggest supporter.
Does anyone know if Stage 2 of the 4 stages of Liver Scor. is very far along, halfway... what??
Thank You.  LipStick

[MrsOckert]

I'm sorry you've been so drained.  With all you've put into this it's easy to understand how you could get depressed.  It's good you have your daughter and it does sound like she is a big support to you.

As far as the stages there is no way anyone, doctor or not, can predict how you will respond to liver damage.  It could easily take 10 years to go from stage 2 to 3 or as little as 18 months.  While it would be nice to have a progression date it just isn't possible for anyone to predict how one will respond to damage.  I know people in their 60's and 70's living with Hepatitis C and they've had it since their 20's and 30's.  I've known of a couple other people that died in their 40's.

[susan400]

Anybody can decide to stop drinking, if they WANT to.   I decided for me, I didn't think that it was a good idea to continue.  I never really considered that I was a functioning alcoholic (I didn't drink in the morning, didn't seem to have hand shaking or noticable withdrawal symptoms), until I went to give up my nightly mixed drink that I look forward to every night after work and I occasionally had a glass of wine w/it (even got tipsy on more than one occasion-or so I rationalized).  When my husband to be, got made at me one night when I took money out of the ATM to pay the babysitter and didn't remember doing it, he took my booze and poured it down the sink.  When I didn't have my nightly relaxer, I had a noticable problem with it.  This was years before I knew about the HEPC, although I was infected at that time.  I think back in hindsight, that maybe if I hadn't been pouring that fuel on the fire that I would be having SVR by now. This is my own personal observation.  I had a positive non-A/non-B blood test in 1985, but was told that it was an 'old' infection and never warned about any drinking.  Finally tested positive for the Hep C in 1994.   I had the major risk factors back in 1983, do I'm 98% sure that's when I was infected.

Susan

[bjack111]

I have hepc and im 31 the doctors found varices in my esohpgus and start banding friday,I had a biopsy 5 years ago they found finding of cirrosis,but now I am not sure my doc does not say much,how do I found out how much damaged I have now?my ast is121,alt188,afp serum marker is14,that is all I no.   Mike

[pigeonca]

I don't think stage 2 is that terrible - that's what my biopsy says I have - and with treatment the fibrosis can actually reverse itself.  There have been cases cases of people with stage 2 reverting to stage 1 or even 0 after tx and with, of course, a healthy lifestyle.  Milk thistle is great, but not advisable during tx, according to my doc - but others say it's okay then.  

I don't understand why you say that you have only a 1% chance of clearing.  If they're keeping you on treatment, they have a reason why.  Generally people with a 1% chance are pulled off treatment fairly early in the game.  Even if you don't get SVR, moreover, the interferon/ribavirin can cause your liver to get better.  Don't lose hope.  You're sick from the medicine right now and not in a position to think logically.  The meds are verry depressing - are you taking any anti-depressants?  if not, ask your doctor for a prescription.  Time heals all ills, and you will feel better, I promise.

[MrsOckert]

Your comment is buried far down in the thread - not sure if it will get picked up by anyone else or not.  Don't feel like you're being ignored if not, okay?

The only way to know for sure what kind of damage you have today is to do another liver biopsy.  After 5 years I'm somewhat surprised your doc hasn't suggested one.

I know there is talk about the fibrosure/fibroscan but it's not widely available at this point.  Right now it's still the biopsy that gives the best info for the widest amount of people.

[DoubleDose]

What I find really interesting in this thread is the information in the link posted above on Alcoholism and HCV.  I am going to stay out of the debate on drinking with HCV and drinking even after SVR, because every doctor seems to have a different opinion, and lots of research can be shown to support either case (ie: light social drinking - vs. abstinence).  I don't think we really have a clear cut answer, and since we are all adults, we should read all of the available research and make our own decisions.  I know that I drank moderately for decades before I knew I had HCV.  I stopped completely when I found out, and in fact had almost been abstinent for more than seven years before I found out , since alcohol was affecting me more and more when I did drink.  Now, I have two to four glasses of wine per week on average, almost four years after SVR.  Is it a problem?  Who knows?  I don't think I will ever be able to determine whether this is causing harm or not, compared to total abstinence.  Probably the same could have been said before tx, when I had active HCV.  Alcohol use could lead to certain episodes of abuse, or overdrinking, which then could be very harmful to someone with HCV...etc.  But a drink or two per week????  Who knows.  I don't think you will find a clear answer.

Now here is the issue I am intrigued by, and here is an excerpt from the above linked article on HCV and Alcoholism:

"In addition to the high incidence of HCV infection in heavy drinkers even in the absence of classic risk factors, other observations suggest that heavy alcohol consumption enhances the ability of the virus to enter and persist in the body. For example, several studies demonstrated a correlation between the presence of virus in the blood (i.e., viremia) and the amount of alcohol patients reported they consumed (i.e., self-reported alcohol consumption, or SRAC) (see figure 2). Furthermore, moderation of alcohol consumption was shown to result in a decrease in the number of virus particles in the blood (i.e., the viral titer) (Cromie et al. 1996). Researchers do not yet fully understand the mechanism through which alcohol affects the viral titer. It is well known, however, that alcohol impairs the function of certain components of the body's immune system (Ince and Wands 1999). An impaired immune function, in turn, may influence the ability of the virus to persist in the body rather than be eliminated by immune cells. "


More than a few references in this long article were made to people 'acquiring' HCV because of alcoholism, in the ABSENCE of normal risk factors...like IVDU, transfusion, etc.

I have read several research studies in the past saying the same thing, and have several times noted that on the forum!  Here is what I think may happen:

Be warned, the following is my theoretical speculation, and is not intended to be interpreted as fact!!!

OK, I think, as I have said in the past, that some or many people may harbor an 'inactive', or 'dormant' version of HCV that is either passed on from birth, or acquired casually, sexually, etc. and does not cause an active, detectable blood liver infection.  Thus, no antibodies on testing, no elevated enzymes, no sign of HCV.  In this subset of the population, those that become alcoholics may allow the virus to move from a 'latent, dormant' phase, into an active infection....the mechanism might be immune system suppression, alcohol's effect on multiplying the virus, or any number of other unknown mechanisms.  The point is that most of these alcoholism studies indicate that alcoholics become (acquire) HCV positive at a much higher rate than the normal population.  And, they are alcoholics who have been weeded out for other risk factors.

All of this fits my theory that HCV can transmit and be harbored by individuals in other ways than the typical active/ chronic/ acute blood liver infection.

For all we know, a major portion of the population could have a dormant HCV virus that would remain unknown, and virtually harmless for life, unless triggered, or activated by something (like heavy alcohol abuse).

I find this subject to be extremely thought provoking, and if you read the research article posted way above in this thread, you will also sense the surprise and curiosity of the researchers who are seeing this data in alcoholics, and trying to figure out why they 'acquire' HCV at such a high rate.  Maybe they already had it, but it was invisible!!!  

So, this is my off the wall thought for the week, and I look forward to the comments it generates.

By the way, if I haven't said it before, I really do believe there is much more about the behavior of this virus that we do not yet understand, than what we do currently understand.  Look at the studies every week implicating a new disease, or manifestation to HCV.  This week, the articles on Diabetes, and the continuing evidence of a link to HCV.

Have a nice day all of you!!!

DoubleDose

[MrsOckert]

Once again you provide a well written and thoughtful disertation on the current subject thread.  The thought that occurs to me in reading your posting is what part alcohol plays or is it the sugar that affects HCV and the body?

I've been told that sugar feeds a virus.  If this is correct and alcohol turns to sugar in the body is this feeding the virus at a faster rate than say a twinkie would?

Any ideas?

[LipStick1959]

Thank you both very much for the Words of Wisdom. I have to admit to becoming wet eyed as I honestly felt "HOPE" come back to me as I read your posts. As for the 1%... I went on the treatments in Dec 05, but within weeks landed in the ICU for a 10 day stay due to pneumonia, which I have been prone to get most of my Life anyway.  I had to switch to a specialist because my reg liver Dr. dropped me like a hot rock... And I started again Sept 06. My viral count went from 8 million down to less than 2000 by March of 07.. I got to feeling better, half *** took my meds, drank during my one week vacation & fell off the wagon on a cocaine binge...Sooo stupid... I just never dreamed that a two week party would knock me down so fast. I went back for my 3 mo. check up & my count was back up close to the million {875,000} so the Nurse practioners said "We are gonna take you off, after the 6 mos..I'm climbing back..yada, yada" It was at that point that it hit me way harder than even being told I had the virus, if you could imagine that. I knew I had probably ruined the only chance I'd ever get to kill it, be cured... So, seeing how I couldn't have felt more stupid, I dropped to my knees, cried like a baby, begged like I wouldn't see tomorrow without it... and even though I saw her roll her eyes, she wrote the prescription with nasty rudeness, that I welcomed..:)... and told me after speaking with the Dr. he may call and take me off anyway... but he didn't. I received a cc of the letter he wrote to my 1st Dr. as he sends a report every 3 mos. and he said .."Even tho she was told of the 1% chance of this working, Mrs.. X still insisted she continue the full course treatment" and that he would follow up in Sept with he results.  Yes, I know what you are thinking... I was an IDIOT! My excuse was that I was so tired of being sick & tired... but now, as with drinking, I have to ask myself, "Are ya really tired of LIVING"? One look at my grandbaby and there's no doubt..Bring on the side effects, shove those fruits & veggies I can't stand down my throat, I'll help!... I want to LIVE!!! And now I believe I just might.
I'm going to write a letter to my Doctor, try to sugar coat what I did, & pray the new results will show a significant improvement. Otherwise, I will be back to square one, but with more Hope than I've ever had before. Thank You.  As for DoubleDose...It could be! I drank 7 days a week for 6 years on the national womens pool league circuit. I was very good with the Crown Bottle & the cue... ;) Prior to that I drank often. Then fell "sick & tired with pain" searching for 4 years before the diagnosed me withHepC.  I no longer can sip a drop due to the BURNING in my stomach... Wish it id the same to me with the cocaine.. I'd be "Home Free" Tho I pray I'll never touch either ever again, I sadly report I've heard my own self too many times. My son is the only one I admit this too, and he reams me almost to the point of doing it again, my daughter..I am too ashamed to tell.  Re-reading this I feel like a loser, but today, I am a loser with HOPE... I've never travelled that Path. NA says I will always b "recovering" I say "No.. I will be free from this Demon, I know I will" Have only been trying since Igot the news, and I have done great on my own. I moved from all my old friends, changed my number, lost theirs. And as I said, my kids hover over me in a good way. If I'd stay out of Walmarts I'd never be found from "Bad habit Buddies" ..but that ain't gonna happen.. Hopefully I have gotten a second chance and will make it.  Thank you all.   LipStick

[triggertime]

Its the same ol Q. Go drink or No drink. I see it like this....You know in your heart whether you are strong or weak. I was a "social drinker for many years. A 12pack or more a week. A couple magnum bottles of wine a week. Lots of partying with beer, wine and hard liquer every weekend. When the hepCrud came along I decided not to drink. I have not drank since. I found many years ago that when I quit smoking (for the last time back in '76) I can do any thing I want to do. I am in control of me. Its a matter of how you see yourself. If you perceive to be strong and in control you will make the right decision. The sx you endure will make you stronger. Yeh it sux but thats the way it is . If you perceive to be weak you are weak. I think of it as inner strenth. Do as you have to do. Its up to you. Many of you will most likely disagree and I dont care if you do. Just do it. Face to the wind, One step after the next. BE IN CONTROL.
May God bless you with wisdom and discernment.

triggertime
keepdafaith&don4get2giggle

[pigeonca]

Reading your last post, I know you can make it.  I don't need to reiterate all the usual "one day at a time" mottos, 'cause you know them, I'm sure, and they're all true - esp. the serenity prayer.  Treat yourself well - pretend your home is a spa.  Bubble baths and long (slow if necessary) walks are terrific.  Get help with the household chores, read and watch TV.  Whenever you're depressed and want to indulge in your bad habits, do something else that's nice for yourself.  Ice cream is a terrific replacement for booze, BTW, as is dark chocolate.  Please keep us posted as to your progress.  We're all rooting for you.  Love, pigeon

[meki]

*SNICKER* Twinkie... OMG --- thank you for the giggle. (Know that one of the major things I craved before DX of HCV were Twinkie, DingDongs and Anything with Sugar - so that made me laugh like heck - cause I don't drink very often. I'm not a teatotaler - but am not even a mild social drinker - 6 drinking nights a year... or something like that for me... all of my life... But SUGAR.... woohooo --- SUGAR.... well now... we're talking a serious addiction. LOL!)

Could you pass the Twinkies please. (grin)

[meki]

"I am too ashamed to tell.  Re-reading this I feel like a loser, but today, I am a loser with HOPE... "

Hope is a good thing.

Don't be ASHAMED --- Ever. It's a learning experience. We ALL have something we keep in the closet. Or in our Past. For each of us it is a different thing. For each of us - we guilt ourselves for what we think is something awful.

For example --- when I was a little kid... there was this other kid that had built a sandcastle on the beach.

I distinctly remember being so jealous (as a 3 year old - that was REALLY jealous) that this other kid could build this castle and I couldn't.

Now - being a billion years older ---- LOL - I realize that that lumpy bunch of dirt clumps and broken sticks was nothing but a pile of sand... But to my little kid... that castle was the greatest thing on earth... And I didn't build it.

So --- I went on a rampage and stomped on it --- and made that other little kid cry.

And I felt happy about it.

Until I got older and that memory surfaced --- and I felt like a schmuck.

So --- I guess I learned from that experience. I was ashamed that I could have done something like that - ever.

But I learned never to do it again.

I can't really compare drugs or addiction to my sand castle stomping experience. But I wanted you to know that sometimes it's not WHAT you have done that is bad... But sometimes it really is only how YOU --- view it.

So - try viewing it a different way. Instead of saying... Look how awful I am... Say.. Look - I'm really trying - check me out!

And Hope is awesome!

Hugs,

Meki

[LipStick1959]

Well, I didn't pass...lol It didn't work. Now the Dr. wants to put me on daily shots for 3 months, then will know if it's working. I guess Geno 1 is tougher to cure. I'm soooo tired & weak & scared. {But I haven't relapsed back to Drugs!!!) ;) I just don't know what to do or expect now... any clues? LipStick

[pigeonca]

I'm so sorry, really thought it would work for you.  But actually it did, because you haven't resumed using, so next time the odds will be better.

Whatever you do, whether you do the daily shots (Infergen?) or wait for some of the newer meds, I'd recommend doing everything possible to build up your strength.  You know the drill: eat right and exercise, both of which will make you feel infinitely better.  If you're debilitated from your last tx, maybe you need to take a few months off, at least, before doing the shots.

You're only stage 2, so you have time to regroup if you want to.  There are so many new and improved therapies for this disease.  If it were me, I'd wait, get healthy, and then go for Vertex or something like that when they're available.

You're a tough chick.  I really admire you for staying off the drugs.

Best of luck,
Love,
pigeon

[Sarge801]

I have always been very healthy and always going to the gym.  I went into the USMC and put my time in.  I still felt great, then in 1979 I had 3 motorcycle accidents in a very short time.  During that senerio I had received at least two complete blood transfusions.  I suppose that was standard practice.  NOW things seemed to happen that shocked the hell out of me.  I went in to our family MD for a complete physical and blood workup.  The results are what scared me, he said I had  Hep C, and had the virus for around 20 to 25 years, it was just incubating somewhere in my body. Shortly after I started Pegasys and Interferon weekly for a year.  I fell like hell. AND the financial costs (even with ins.)  was outragous.  But it had to be done. Right?  After completion of the treatment, I had another blood test work-up and the doctor sid the virus was barely detecable, but I will always carry the virus.  Now I am again geting alarmed.  My wife is a very well educated nursing superVisor and has strongly advised against indulging my drink. She said it won't kill you, but at the same time, it won't help you either.  My latest shock was this past week (Apr. 09) when I went to the optomistirst (eye doctor) for a check up and he stated that I have aquired cataracts in both eyes.  My wife said there is a strong corolation of cataracts and hepC, as they both attack the auto immune system.  I have been scheduled for eye surgery sometime in May  2009.  I feel horrified, invaded, but I am still alive (for now).  Is there someone out here with some good, truthful, and helpful suggestions on how to handle this and keep moving on with a positive attitude?  It's seemingly impossible to keep going at times.

Ralph   aka: ***@****

Sincerly Yours;  Semper Fi:  Latin for (Always Faithful to God and yourself).  I love those who have the courage to hold on, and pray for those don't.

[newleaf09]

Life expectancy?  Impossible to say.  The disease affects everyone differently.  The bad thing is that even while your liver is scarring and sustaining great damage, there are absolutely NO SIGNS.  You usually don't feel bad or have aches or pains or turn yellow.  You just won't know until you have cirrhosis (totally scarred liver unable to function any more; leads to death).

My advice is go to a hepatologist (Gastroenterologist specialized in the liver) and get the initial work-up: Bloodwork to look for indicators of cancer or cirrhosis, PCR to get viral count; genotype test, liver biopsy if he recommends it.  Be sure and tell him about the gout.

If you are genotype 2 or 3, treatment is shorter and more successful and you may as well do it (most americans are genotype 1).  If you have a low viral load you are much more likely to cure.  Do the tests and let your doctor lay it all out and help you make a decision.

[Mary4now]

My hepatologist / transplant doctor, told me drinking alcohol was like pouring gas on fire.
thats enough for me.  It wasn't enough when I had hep in 1971, STUPID, but now that I'm OLD, I know bad things can happen and  just the knowledge of the possibility of drinking escalating, or doing more damage is enough for me to not drink.  
I guess we all pick our poisons.