I just read this article about hep c and life span does anyone have a link to some charts that spell out what the life span may be?? I've read a bunch of info but would like something a little more clear!! Hopefully I'll be clear in six months anyway!
scary ! i read the article and it states that the average life span of a male NON drinker is 55 and a drinker 50. i would also like to see other studies about this as i have never heard this before and means i may be dead in 5 yrs since i'm 50 now. i was thinking about waiting for better meds but if this is true then i may opt to tx now! if anyone has any other links with better news or could explain this better please do. thanks
I read a post a couple of years ago from another HepC board from a guy who had had it for 50 years and was still kicking. Very encouraging! I think the thread was called "Lifers". There's so much misinformation that you have to be very careful about the sources. My local doc keeps telling me I'll be okay. As I've started confiding in close friends that I have this disease, they've all been very supportive AND, most importantly, that they would never know I was sick by looking at me. I guess that's good, eh?
The avg age around here strikes me to be about 50ish. So according to this we should be dropping like flies. Not to be insensitive to the members who struggle with ESLD, generally I'd say this is a lively group for a bunch of gouls.
I read that article last night, and at first it scared me (and then I saw it was the AAA.) I know two men who were diagnosed a few years ago in their 80's (diagnosed being worked up for elective ortho surgery.) Neither had risk factors except for the service and a blood transfusion long long time ago. One has drunk alcohol all his life more heavily than socially. He's still drinking and doing fine - dancing every Saturday night at the single's club with a new girlfriend who's also in her 80's. He smokes cigs like a freight train, too. (The daughter is upset only about the new girlfriend :) The other one also drank all his life, probably more socially than heavily. He was a big pharma's med director for Africa. He died suddenly of a heart attack last year in his office, in his mid 80s. Isolated cases of people with Hep C in their 80's ? I don't think so.
This alcohol thing - I hadn't drunk a drop in over 20 years when I was diagnosed in 2003 and was still grade 3 stage 2 on biopsy. It wasn't alcohol taking my liver downhill. I think it was Tylenol, Advil, Aspirin, Flexeril, AntiD's (all prescribed by the doc), and *cig smoking* that contributed to the inflammation and fibrosis.
The focus on HCV progression is "watch out for alcohol". That's a fair warning, but I think more warnings need to be given to the not so obvious, like OTCs.
Hey lady! I'm glad you quit. I've always been one to encourage people not to drink at all once diagnosed, but honestly - with what I've seen with alcohol and those who can live long lives no matter how much they drink, and also - I know a few people who stayed snockered while on treatment (52 weeks) and SVR'd, and they have been snockered most of that time since, and they are still SVR. And then, when I look at my liver as a non-drinker? Well, ya know - ya can't help but wonder. And I worry about Busch NA? lol I think I'll go buy a 12 pack today and "play drunk" ..... just kidding :) Hope you're doing good.
I'm 56 so I must be dead. I don't put a lot of credence in reports. They evolve just as the disease's progression evolves; willy-nilly! If you start focusing on time you lose sight of success. We all want to live longer so we need to focus on the tools we can use to achieve that goal. The things we are all doing right now are giving us the best chance for success. Worry about that right now and the other things will fall as they may.
There is no doubt that it was the pain medications prescribed by Drs after I had my first stroke in 1988 that caused my Hep. That includes Tylenol, Advil, Motrin, Morphine, Oxycontin, Excedrin and Stadol. Not to mention the Tegretol and Neurontin.
That's what kills me about this disease, it's so random. I feel guilty that I didn't take better care of my liver and have minimal damage while some did everything right and it turns out so wrong! I wasn't a heavy drinker but obviously very psychologically dependent on my evening wine, to drink once I knew better.
We're all social drinkers in our minds! (except for people like you who don't drink)
Copy: that the average life span of a male NON drinker is 55 and a drinker 50.
Gee, that means (I) was dead five years ago and I've been mistakenly blaming all the side effects on treatment.
Life is whatever we're given. Could be tomorrow, could be years from now. The only difference I see is that those of us who know we have HCV simply know that we have something that may result in our passing. Fortunately for some, there is a chance to eliminate it as a possiblity of causing our passing.
Unfortunately, someone struck down by a car is unable to influence their outcome and likewise for some of us. For many, HCV may not be their undoing and is something they simply live with and watch carefully to not pass it on to another. I do not see it as much different that a person with diabetes, high blood pressure, heart condition, or any other illness which they need to watch and try to avoid it becoming the cause of the end on this plane.
But I also look at it and ask if it's really worth living if one becomes so focused upon their condition that they miss the rest of life moving on around them. So, I take each day as it comes, not worry about if or when I might not see another, and try to enjoy and make the most of what time I have been given here.
If I only make it another 2 or 7 years because of HCV, so be it. Perhaps I'll make it another 20, 30, or 40 years like others who have HCV but do not know it and thus do not focus upon it.
I think you said a while back that you were on, or heading to, 56 weeks and I think your tx is nearing its end. Your reference to 6 months implies it too. Where are you in tx? How you doing? Almost done? Ready to rejoin the world?
Hi thefly. I'd say those were some heavy duty meds on your liver. I'm reminded of the drug commercials we see on TV now. After they advertise what a wonderful drug it is, they'll say something like "you should not take this drug if you have any history of liver disease", and then "a simple blood test should rule out any serious liver disease that might prevent you from taking this drug". I wonder how many people with Hep C (undiagnosed with normal LFTs) are taking a medication they'd be better off not taking. Some definitely had to be on meds to help other conditions, but some meds are unnecessarily prescribed and do more harm than good.
Hi Bug, I think it's definitely a disease that's more individual in progression and symptoms than what's known now. Maybe one day they'll be able to individualize the treatment more than now. It's a complicated little booger ain't it :)
yep, the pat answer - always - no matter how sideways the walk, "I had about 2 or 3, officer"
have a good one! Guess what? I'm going to be another granny soon! (boy this time! hehehe! so excited I can't stand it!) Son came by last night and said she was having some contractions. I need to try to lay down and get some sleep (if I can :) I'll see ya around!
...a male NON drinker is 55 and a drinker 50.
Gee, that means was dead five years ago and I've been mistakenly blaming all the side effects on treatment.
Hahaha.....Say, Jim, who old are you? and I can say now how heavily drinker you are !!! :)
It is very possible that if you are a vegetarian with hcv or do fasten for religious reason, your life span shortens to 48.78936 years. And that means it's over for me for 49 seconds (put it that much to write this post up to this point)....
The statistics are very much like IQ scores. The best well known definition of an IQ score: is a measure, which quantify the result of an IQ-Test.
Statistical averages can explain phenomena but they can easily be interpreted misleadingly too. There are probably so much genetic and environmental factors playing a role in the natural course of chronic disease and therapy outcome, that they can be masked by a single statistical mean. It is conceivable that some amount or some specific alcoholic drink (e.g. some red wines) with some individuals with some genetic characteristic and with special HCV genotypes are even beneficial even with hepatitis C, while the majority of the cases does not fulfill these coincidental premises and for them is than alcohol a more serious issue, than these
We just don't know enough. We don't know whether the harm done by alcohol in susceptible individuals a linear ore monotone function of the amount is.
A good strategy however probably is: the smaller alcohol the better - and this goes toward zero.
But it is not quite that simple issue: it can be disputed on psychological and educational basis whether pleading for no alcohol at all was the most effective way to influence people to abstain. If people have an alcohol problem they can be confronted with not easily achievable goals. Instead of this they should be supported by bringing them to feel that small achievements are meaningful goals too and some relapses are not the cause to give up completely!
On the other hand, it may play for some purists a very affirmative role to take the position of an absolute abstinence - and for their personal use it might probably be the best advice they take and give.
If a child once asked his father if God exists, he gave her the best answer he could: God does exist and is the ruler of the world - for all of them they believe him. And so he governs the world of mankind through the crowd of his followers...
My destination is UND plus 44 too. Still a while off though. When I get to the end of the line I don't think I'll have the patience to wait 6 months for the results. Too much junk invested to wait that long. Doc thinks 30 day post will provide a good idea of thumbs up or down. Or, maybe he was referring to my next colonoscopy.
I am 46, female and have already endured six months of treatment. The good news....after the hell of the med's, hep c was gone. The bad news...The entire six months I was underdosed and now have a 50/50 chance of return. The even worse news, I traded one disease for another. One of the side effects of the Interferon is possible chance of contacting Myasthenia Gravis. Well I did. And it gets worse...I'm 99% sure the hep c has returned. Will be going this week to be checked.
My advice to everyone...live your life to the fullest and stay away from the Interferon. It's poison!!! I felt much better before treatment. My life has not been the same since I put that stuff into my body. I have more health issues now, than I did prior to treatment.
As nearly as I can tell, the interferon / riba combo has kept me alive when I would have been dead. As a result of treatment I have been able to attend my youngest sons high school graduaution. When he graduated from pre-school I was in full tilt isolation at local hospital............and I invested my time heavily in the Boy Scout program with my son - many adventures that we can still relive....anything that I went through during tx is insignificant.
I am very sorry for your medical problems and I completely understand how you feel the way that you do. In similar circumstances I could not say that I would not feel the same way. I think that your post reminds us all that treatment is not without it's possible consequences. Everyone should go into treatment with their eyes wide open as to the possible side effects - potentially long lasting ones.
My understanding of the odds is that the Interferon/Riba treatment leaves the vast majority better off in the long term health-wise than otherwise. this is why I decided to go for treatment as quickly as possible. With that said, god-knows what they will discover about the treatment 10 years from now. It's always a risk but is one that I do choose to take because I think it offers significantly better odds at a better quality of life for me. That is my personal choice and I hope it turns out to be a correct decision.
Once again I am very very sorry for the outcome that you experienced and I completely understand your point of view regarding the treatment.
Sorry you have such devasting side effects post tx. I know the quality of your life has been drastically changed. In my case, there was no option. Treat and try to avoid the next step which is cirrhosis. Contrary to what some may say, cirrhosis is inevitable in my case. Maybe not within the next few years, but it will happen. I'd rather take my chances with possible long term problems from treatment than to suffer with ESLD and and never know if that next step could have been avoided. Keep in mind, once the liver is in the advanced stages it literally poisons the body as well.
'The older we get, the more quickly liver disease advances.'
i dont agree with that... i think it all depends on the individiual , on how strong or weak your immune system is and how you take care of yourself
the liver is an amazing organ and it can regenerate itself, the only thing i have ever read is that cirrotic damage is hard to reverse
and stage 3 is not stage 4... i have read many stories on here from people who have been living 10 years or more with stage 4 disease... so you could be stage 3 for another 10 years and then stage 4 maybe another 10 years after that...so you easily have another 20 years or so, unless of course your hep is raging...
i am stage 2 and 46 ... so, if im stage 3 at 56 im going to feel pretty dam good about that
Stage 3 is bridging fibrosis. Even if I do clear the virus, my liver will not return to normal health in the sense of a totally regenerated liver. Maybe, and I say maybe very cautiously I will dip down a stage. It may have taken me 30+years to get where I'm at but I promise it will not take that long again to get to stage 4. If you have read about this disease and it's progression, the odds are not in my favor, henceforth, my reason for treating. No one can predict with any certainty, just based on the all the information and studies and doctors recommendation it is not likely my liver disease will progress slowly as I advance in years.
i have read more than i care to about this stupid disease really ... i dont think anyone knows anything with any certainty, you hear stories of 80 year old people living large who have had it for 60 years and then 40 somethings with cirrosis...
everyone is different... i guess im just hoping my stage 2 doesnt get to stage 3 really...
Have you considered tx? Stage 2 is a tough call for some when it comes to tx. Should I wait for better drugs or should I just go ahead and treat try to get rid of the virus? I think it's a personal decision and there are no guarantees either way. Of course, the percentages are better for those who are geno 2 & 3 and if the liver is not in advanced stages. Alot of factors to consider but I am curious if you've ever been on tx or considered it.
"i have read more than i care to about this stupid disease really ... i dont think anyone knows anything with any certainty, you hear stories of 80 year old people living large who have had it for 60 years and then 40 somethings with cirrosis."
Yes exactly. It's like those stupid statistics about how tall the average person is in the U.S. They say the average height is something like 5'9" but they don't know anything at all. I'm 5'7" so what does that tell you? Also I've seen some people, in fact a whole lot of people who were who were 5"2 (eyes of blue) and a bunch over 6 feet. statistics are stupid and so are the people who make those things up because they really don't know what they are talking about with any certainty anyway.
That's why I don't listen to those stupid statistics about smoking or drinking because it really doesn't mean anything. You just live your life and come what may that's what I say.
"If you had mild (Childs A )cirrhosis or anything less in fibrosis score, after SVR it should all go away. Your liver should return to normal. However in people with established cirrhosis, there may be a continuing risk of liver cancer so screening once or twice per year may be in order. Follow up biopsy is not really indicated. Good luck!
And Congrats on your cure! "
Are you considering stage 3 as mild cirrhosis? It may be, I don't really know about the Childs scoring but I do know that regardless of SVR my liver damage is not going to go away. With SVR, it may diminish, but it will NEVER go away.
Statistically, if I were drinking right now, with the extent of liver damage I have, I'll be dead in a couple of years. Don't know the exact time that would happen, but it would and I'm not going to take any chances. Besides, I thought you were a big proponent of the all natural approach.
Alcohol has toxins!
I know you were in on what Dr D said above in the referenced link. Why do you think you'll only revert one stage, best case scenario? I'd be much more optimistic than that. I'm not sure I'm buying the blanket assertion that "...after SVR it should all go away. Your liver should return to normal.", but I really do think that a very significant improvement is achieved in most after SVR-ing. If you only have F3 fibrosis (and not advanced cirrhosis), and you do not develop an autoimmune disease after treatment (which can be treated anyway), then I'd feel fairly confident that your liver will strongly recover over time (more than just one stage). Will it ever recover to the point that after you die (of old age of course!) and an autopsy is performed, the coroner would never know you had liver disease at one point in your life? Probably not (IMO), but as long as its full function and the vast majority of the damage done is healed, what difference does it make? The liver has a huge reserve capacity by design. It is specifically designed and evolved over millions of years (or made by god and his infinite wisdom, if you "proffer" ;-) to absorb toxins and damage. It's built to accommodate reductions in its total capacity (which are often temporary) as a result of damage done by disease or ingestion of poisons etc. So for this reason I would feel fairly confident that if you get your SVR, over time with healthy living you can expect a rollback of more than just one stage. Don't sell you and your liver short! ;-) My $0.02 anyway.
After my first tx sept06 to feb 07 i had done no bx , my doc said that he could almust guarantee that I was stage 3 but he said if you reach SVR it will all go back to normal even if you have steaotis ( fatty liver.) that will go away aswell.
ps did a bx in nov 07 and I didn`t had stage 3 much better, but thats another story.
You know I believe Dr. D is probably as good as they get in the field. I don't doubt that those without advanced liver disease and who successfully tx will have a marked improvement in their liver health. My bx states: Liver with focal increase in periportal dense fibrous connective tissue. Stage 3 of 4 fibrosis Scar tissue in other words. I can't wrap my head around new tissue growing over scar tissue (dead hard cells) to the point where my liver is fairly normal again. And you're right, it doesn't really matter because if I do SVR than at least the progression will stop there. My focus is not so much on my liver going back, just not going forward. As far as I know, it's still working pretty good despite my attempts to sabotage it over the years! You've been on this forum a long time and done a lot of research and you know that without sucessfully treating, my liver going to get worse. There is no disputing that. Exactly when no one knows, but that is the nature of this disease. I am to the age where the damage starts to accelerate. I'm hoping for SVR and anything else is plus at this point. Thanks for your input - as always I enjoy your posts.
"Statistically, if I were drinking right now, with the extent of liver damage I have, I'll be dead in a couple of years. Don't know the exact time that would happen, but it would and I'm not going to take any chances. Besides, I thought you were a big proponent of the all natural approach. "
Sometimes I'm too snarky for my own good. ;)
I did notice a few posts saying that you can't rely on statistics (regarding alcohol and disease progression) and thought I'd take the argument to it's illogical conclusion.
key words, "average," and "with hep c." Meaning that half fall below that age and half above, and that we are talking about people who still have hep c.
I don't necessarily disagree with those findings given that people with untreated hepc show higher rates of kidney failure, etc Still, its difficult to comment with any certainty on these articles that pull data from studies unless you get to read the actual study.
My name is Jake, and I was recently diagnosed with Hep C the cause was more than likely drug use, I did this to myself and i'm prepared to face the consequences. I'm 21 years old and just living my life day to day i have no idea what stage i am i just got the blood work done the first time about 8-9 months ago, i havent went back to confirm the diagnosis, but reading some of your comments gives me faith i believe everything happens for a reason even tho i brought this onto myself i think that as crazy as it might sound this disease has saved my life it really opened my eyes life is too precious too brief to worry about the little things and this little liver problem isn't going to ruin my life i stay focused and look forward younger people like myself are gonna look towards seniors for answers and advice I advise you to keep them positive give them hope. God bless all, much love
FWIW I thought your facetious response was spot on and quite amusing. And contrary to pjhep80's response, it was relevant to what she had said. To say I know someone in his 80s who smokes like a chimney therefore I'm not going to quit smoking not very sensible. There is a lot known about HCV. The experience is far from random. I think the problem is that there is much conflicting and out of date information floating out there which leads people to draw the wrong conclusion.
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