liver ache

[catmagic0406]

Hello, everyone.  Just wanted to let ya know I'm still around, still waiting with increasing stress for biopsy results.  I mean, this is ridiculous to have to wait 5 weeks.  Yeah, I could probably pick them up myself at the hospital in med records, but now way do I want to freak out either there or back home.

Anyway, I am increasingly worried about the constant liver ache I'm having - just under my right ribcage.  It's not gallbladder issues because my gall bladder was removed in 1992.  I've had this monster HepC for 40 years.  This aching has been going at a constant rate for maybe a few months.  Before that it wasn't 24/7, but it did come and go.

Has anyone else had this going on?  My doc said it could be my liver pressing against the "capsule" that encases all our organs.  But right now that isn't good enough for me.  I HAVE to know why this is happening.  It's the only symptom I'm having, but it is SCARING me half to death.  It's a couple inches above the biopsy punch.  Never stops.

Thx

[SusanAO]

I have this too and it got worse after an internal biopsy during a reflux surgery!   It definitely is my liver, front and back - burns on the front if I lay on the front and on the back if I lay on the back.  Can't wait for the biopsy, don't think it will be good after having this 30 years now and my ins. co. just denied treatment for HCV - anyone else have that problem?

[catmagic0406]

Okay ~ I have made progress here.

Morning update. Fed UP, I called the gastro's office, knowing he's not there. Explained my issue and that I am also stressing out big time over not knowing the bx results. Was told to call pdoc. Perfect - perfect - he is a great doctor. I pushed them on the biopsy, so .... they said they will send a copy to him when I get an appt.

So you bet I got an appt. I see him tomorrow at 2:30. So I will KNOW the results, and I'm sure he will know just as much as my current doctor about what this ongoing ache is. At least he can give me something for it.

When you have constant pain/ache, it really does a number on your head. So I'm depressed and anxious at the same time. Just really trying to keep myself together, which is taking a lot of effort. I LOST my Clonazepam bottle of NEW meds for the month, so I'm trying to hold steady with Xanx, as my therapist suggested. That's not working, so I have a call in to her.

What a mess - I'm a mess. Thanks for listening.  But just to know those results, no matter how bad they may be, will ease this anxiety/depression.  I found a way to get them - tomorrow.  Thank God.

[catmagic0406]

I wrote ya a message - but wanted all here to know that I am sure it's not G.E.R.D. since I don't have the symptoms of that ~ my husband does have it, and this ain't it.  I wish it was.  It would make this a lot easier.  This ache is way over on the far right side, just under my ribcage and two inches above the biopsy punch ~ but it wasn't the biopsy - I've had this for YEARS.  It was not constant until recently.  Hmmmm - right after the biopsy, while they had me the little recover room for a few hours, I had shooting pains over there.  Maybe that was from the biopsy punch that was so close to where this THING is.

Thanks, though, Hector - you are just the best on this forum.  Even with what you've got going on, you are here for us.  

I will be calling my pdoc's office as soon as they open.  If I can't get in by tomorrow, I will go to the ER.   That may be the best thing because MAYBE the treating doctor can get my biopsy results. I will tell him the stress level I'm experiencing having to wait so long is off the charts, and I'm sure it's obvious to all of you.  When you are crying out of frustration and a pain that has never been pinned down even though you've asked your gastros for a few years, it is time to get those answers.  

Asked the last one too (who left town to move to a place to make more bucks) - he didn't even try to answer.  So that was one of those "it's all in your head" ones.  I am sure a hepatologist would have acted on it - but there are none around here.  

Need to see Dr. Gish - need a referral letter from Dr. X.  Will get it if I have to go to the hospital CEO.  Can't drive myself up there, though.  Husband will have to take me.  That's an issue because we have a lot of animals, our pets, out here in the boonies.  One step at a time on that.

Yes, it's still there.  Heating pad last night eased it up a bit.  Woke up and didn't feel it right away and was so happy - jeez, who was I kidding - it's there.

[HectorSF]

'Don't worry about it'  Don't worry about pain in the abdomen? I Never heard a doctor say don't worry about pain that hasn't been diagnosed. Scary.
A CT scan says your liver is not enlarged, so why would the capsule be feeling pain. Doesn't add up in my opinion.

*** 'the ache has suddenly turned into more of a burning' ***
That sounds like G.E.R.D. Gastroesophageal reflux disease. Have you ever tried taking Tums, Milk of Magnesia or Rolaids when the pain happens? If it is G.E.R.D. the pain will usually be decreased.

Gastroesophageal reflux disease (GERD) is a condition in which the stomach contents (food or liquid) leak backwards from the stomach into the esophagus (the tube from the mouth to the stomach). This action can irritate the esophagus, causing heartburn and other symptoms.

Avoid drugs such as aspirin, ibuprofen (Advil, Motrin), or naproxen (Aleve, Naprosyn) They irritate the lining of the esophagus.
Take acetaminophen (Tylenol) to relieve pain. Take your medicines with plenty of water.

Ask your primary doc? You can buy Omeprazole (Prilosec OTC) or Prevacid 24HR at any drug store. They are to be used for up to 14 days. If you have GERD you will feel better in a few days.  If you need stronger medicine a doc can prescribe something like Pantoprazole which can be taken for a long time period.

GERD Symptoms

More common symptoms are:

Feeling that food is stuck behind the breastbone
Heartburn or a burning pain in the chest (under the breastbone)
Increased by bending, stooping, lying down, or eating
More likely or worse at night
Relieved by antacids
Nausea after eating

Less common symptoms are:
Bringing food back up (regurgitation)
Cough or wheezing
Difficulty swallowing
Hiccups
Hoarseness or change in voice
Sore throat

Good luck!

Hector

[jerialice]

oh yeah i got the monstah- already treated 2x. fixing to go do it again!
i am determined to get rid of this bug. plz go tomorrow and get help, we can't always wait on the docs, and i always have a few on tap, in case someone is not around.

[catmagic0406]

This is why I'm so upset - the ache has suddenly turned into more of a burning.  I HAVE to do something to help with this constant pain.  As I wrote, my da#$ doctor is on vacation - a month long one.  Yeah, I know I'm not supposed to take NSAIDs, but what does one do for pain when this is happening and they can't get in touch with their doctor?

Oh my ~ oh you bet I have Hep C for sure.  I've had it for probably 40 years and was diagnosed 10 years ago.  I am going to try to get in to my pdoc tomorrow.  If I can't I will probably go to the ER.  And then I can tell them that my gastro is "out of town" for a month, and I don't even know the results of a biopsy done three weeks ago.

I hope to start tx as soon as everything is in place.  And of course, the first thing is to know the biopsy results.  So no, not treating yet.

[jerialice]

guess what i mean is don't take anything new or not approved! i see you have been diagnosed but is it with hep c?

[jerialice]

you know this but:
DO NOT take anything until you get the ok from your doc, like hector said, a lot depends on the issue you have, my gastro approved celebrex for me since i am at a low stage for now. even so i take it sparingly.

if it is a burning pain, that sounds more severe than what i experience- mine is dull and along my side! you may be having some kind of other organ problem. if you can't wait for the gastro, is there someone else you can see tomorrow? Do you have the hep for sure?
Are you on TX?
I am going back in August and have a lot questions myself!

[catmagic0406]

My CT scan done on April 20th says, in part, "The liver is normal in overall size with no evidence of mass, cyst, hemorrhage or edema.  Decreased attenuation is seen throughout the hepatic parenchyma, consistent with steatosis....

   ... spleen normal in overall size and contour.  A moddled appearance in the splenic parenchyma in the acute phase of contrast administration appears to be due to differential perfusion and not associated with pathology."

Everything else normal - pancreas, kidneys, etc.  So I really don't get this.  My liver is normal in size yet I have this pain going on?  My doctor's comment was something to the effect of don't worry about it - and that it probably is the capsule causing the pain.  Well, WHY?  Next time I will ask him.  

I don't want to have to make the long haul to Vegas, but I'm going to do it - see Dr. Gish.  I am sure that were I his patient going through this (well, first of all I would have known the biopsy results by now) that I could just make a phone call to his San Diego base and get some help, some professional advice, a script for something that won't hurt my liver anymore than it already is.

I just took two Aleve - before I read this.  I hesitated, but this is getting worse - it hurts.  I have to take something when it's like this.

Thank you - I so appreciate your knowledge - we all do.

[jerialice]

thanks hector! my side has had a dull ache ever since i started tx years ago. my doc at the time, said not to worry, it was the liver fighting?

i do have hemangiomas, which might be part of the issue? hoping to find out a lot more with the next doc- i think the one i had was not all the thorough based on what i know now.

[HectorSF]

As we have discussed before... you should never have abdominal pain from anything. Pain is an indication that something is wrong and producing pain. An underlying cause. A simple ultrasound can show if the liver or any other organ is enlarged.

I would avoid any pain meds but Tylenol until you know your don't have cirrhosis. NSAIDs and cause internal bleeding and and hurt the kidneys if you have cirrhosis.

'Fatty liver' commonly (75%) produces only mild liver enlargement. Mild enlargement will not typically cause the liver to stretch to the point of hurting. As someone else said that liver itself (meaning the functional part of the liver - 'parenchyma') has no nerves. Otherwise a biopsy couldn't be performed while you are awake.

The Glisson capsule (a layer of connective tissue surrounding the liver) on the other hand, does contain nerves, blood vessels and lymphatics (a clear fluid). When the liver is swollen, the stretched capsule can cause pain and the lymphatics can leak into the the abdomen causing ascites.

I hope your doctor returns soon so you will know your true liver disease status.

Hang in there!
Try to be patient...I know it is hard.
Hector

[catmagic0406]

Oh, am I ever glad to hear from you!  Everyone has been really kind, but you are the only one who seems to have what I do.  It made things really scary for me when no one seemed to have exactly what I do.  

I am sitting here so fatigued and the ache is almost a burning now.  This has been a very hard day for me.  I think it's the worst I've felt for the past 10 years since diagnosis.  What I've got going never stops.  It used to come and go - not anymore.  I'm afraid to take anything for the pain since so much of that kind of stuff is harmful to the liver.  Guess that's a joke - what is going on with me is BECAUSE I've harmed it.  I'm going to take something - I really have to.  Aleve or something.  Celebrex sounds good - but my gastro is out of town.  I will call my pdoc's tomorrow and hopefully get in to see him right away.  I need to brief him on all this anyway.  He's probably going to be the one who really holds me up as far as sx.

I thank you so much.  We need to stay in touch.

[jerialice]

hi,
i have the same thing and posted the same question, but never got many answers! supposedly the liver has no pain receptors, but if there is inflammation in the dura, that can cause some aching, that's what i was told in 06 when i treated.
it comes and goes still and I am still fighting the beast.

I take a celebrex ever so often and that seems to settle it down. If you find out more can you let me know?
My ache is down the right side not in front.
maybe we can get to the bottom of this!
JA

[catmagic0406]

Hi ~~ and thank you.  My gasto is for sure having a great time on his month long vacation, so he's not available.  But he knows about this.  He told me that it's the capsule around my liver caused by the inflammation and the steatosis.  And I've googled the he!! out of this today, and I do believe he's right.  I am sure the pain is from the liver.  I am absolutely positive.

What I'm going to do is stop all the sugar intake, as in, replace so much coke (I am a Coca Cola addict - and eat a lot of sweet crap) with lots of WATER - try to at least flush my liver out a bit.

DUH, huh?  WATER!!!!

For what is now becoming a bit more intense aching, I will use a heating pad until I see him on the 26th.

NO other symptoms.  And I have no clue what they did when my gall bladder was removed 20 years ago as far as the clamping off, etc.

[threepaddleCurt]

I'm not a doctor, but I do know that having your gallbladder removed may not necessarily mean you are free and clear from those issues. did they clamp off the ducts or leave them open?  Most times they are left open so they can drip directly into the system, but sometimes people don't respond well to this.  

I still have my gallbladder, but do have pancreatic issues.  I have had similar horrible pains I would have sworn were the liver, but apparently they were more GI, and due to intestinal spams of the stomach and intestines..

Please call your doctor soon.  Mine put me on Digestx (probably spelled incorrectly) which pretty much stops the spasms.   It's an analgesic also.  I only take it when an attack comes on, and it has been hugely helpful.  I'm assuming you don't have other symptoms of chronic pancreatitis (pain, continual diarrhea and all that other happy stuff) because then I would strongly suggest you call your doctor yesterday..

[catmagic0406]

Oh ~ I meant "no" instead of "now" if first paragraph.
   And wanted to add that I have steatosis and wonder if that is what is causing this - could cause this.  Most of you regulars know about the steatosis.
   But this aching is really frightening.