Aa
liver cirrhosis
A patient found out that he suffers Hepatitis C in 1995, at the very begining the enzymes were high that he was asked by his doctor to start taking Interferon , he started as required taking interferon for one year and half, then the enzymes went back to a normal range that he was asked to stop interferon.
Since then, all his laboratory tests such as:
*SGOT
*SGPT
*ALP
*TBILC
in addition to all the other elements show normal results. He also undergoes a certain kind of tests called "PCR" last one showed "Moderate" Value : 306762 Copies/ml, that was in 4 April 04.
Even the ultrasound that he undergoes every now and then used to show normal results.
Same patient had an ultrasound 2 days ago, and he found this written in the report:
'Liver: measures 16cm in cephalocaudad dimension, mild periportal enhancement early cirrhosis, no deposits or intrahepatic biliary radicals dilatation, regular contours, PV=1.2cm, no thrombus seen within, CBD=4mm, non dilated hepatic veins, the IVC is completely modulated with respiration"
"Spleen: homogenous texture, estimated volume=200c.c , SV=5mm, no subphrenic or pelvic collections seen.
Please comment on the above-mentioned things , and i wanna know is it probable that cirrhosis
occurs suddenly even though all medical history "tests" are normal???? please tell me what he means by "early cirrhosis", and what we should do right now, should we do another ultrasound ,or what exactly are we required to do.
Since then, all his laboratory tests such as:
*SGOT
*SGPT
*ALP
*TBILC
in addition to all the other elements show normal results. He also undergoes a certain kind of tests called "PCR" last one showed "Moderate" Value : 306762 Copies/ml, that was in 4 April 04.
Even the ultrasound that he undergoes every now and then used to show normal results.
Same patient had an ultrasound 2 days ago, and he found this written in the report:
'Liver: measures 16cm in cephalocaudad dimension, mild periportal enhancement early cirrhosis, no deposits or intrahepatic biliary radicals dilatation, regular contours, PV=1.2cm, no thrombus seen within, CBD=4mm, non dilated hepatic veins, the IVC is completely modulated with respiration"
"Spleen: homogenous texture, estimated volume=200c.c , SV=5mm, no subphrenic or pelvic collections seen.
Please comment on the above-mentioned things , and i wanna know is it probable that cirrhosis
occurs suddenly even though all medical history "tests" are normal???? please tell me what he means by "early cirrhosis", and what we should do right now, should we do another ultrasound ,or what exactly are we required to do.
"by the way, the patient is my father, i really pray to god, he doesn't have cirrhosis , i would kill myself after him."
I have cirrhosis. I wish I didn't but I don't consider it a death sentence. I finsihed treatment for Hep C and am taking supplements to assist my liver. With proper diet and care, many with cirrhosis live for decades.
I have cirrhosis. I wish I didn't but I don't consider it a death sentence. I finsihed treatment for Hep C and am taking supplements to assist my liver. With proper diet and care, many with cirrhosis live for decades.
Forget the ultrasound he needs the biopsy. I can't for the life of me imagine why another ultrasound would matter honestly.
If you want to know if he has cirrhosis - make the appt. for the biopsy today. it is pretty painless and it will give you the DEFINITE answers.
Doing anything else (ie. another ultrasound) is a waste of time.
Make the appointment right now and cancel the ultrasound appt if you really want to know. If you want to continue guessing then keep the ultrasound appt and disregard what everyone in here said. We've all had it - it's not really a big deal and it WILL tell you the truth.
If you want to know if he has cirrhosis - make the appt. for the biopsy today. it is pretty painless and it will give you the DEFINITE answers.
Doing anything else (ie. another ultrasound) is a waste of time.
Make the appointment right now and cancel the ultrasound appt if you really want to know. If you want to continue guessing then keep the ultrasound appt and disregard what everyone in here said. We've all had it - it's not really a big deal and it WILL tell you the truth.
Far as I can tell and from my own experience, it is only Biopsy that can give relatively accurate status of the liver.
Before my last biopsy I did Fibro-xxx twice (diffrent tests) that said - Stage 4 (sort of hirrosis) and then the biopsy said Stage 2-3.
Before my last biopsy I did Fibro-xxx twice (diffrent tests) that said - Stage 4 (sort of hirrosis) and then the biopsy said Stage 2-3.
i just been done with interferon therapy4 mos ago. been a heavy drinker and past drug user for over 20 yrs. im 36 i have mild cirohsis and my hep c is undetectable for now. i have been looking forward to going back2 work and b normal again. i have a 2nd chance 2 do things rite with my life. but i cant shake the feeling of still being "sick" i am still experiencing joint pains, body aches, fatigue, abdominal cramping, nausea, and diziness. my blood work is ok said the doc. but i cant seem to understand how to i go back to normal? is this normal now? is this as good as it gets? or is it all in my head? i havent ever looked into support groups, this is my first time i am asking others for advice.- enz
susie d try to post up under the questions started for that day or most will not find your notes way down the list...
sorry youre going through all this please let us know how you are doing...
sorry youre going through all this please let us know how you are doing...
IVE BEEN SO DOWN,FINALLY GOT DISSABILITY. HERE I GO; WELL I GUESS IVE HAD HEP C FOR 25YEARS OR MORE NO ONE REALLY KNOWS HOW LONG OR HOW U GOT IT. I ALSO HAVE THROMBOYCETOPENIA,HEP C,HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE,STAGE 4 CIRROHIS,DEPPRESSION,SEVERLY ENLARGED SPLEEN,WHICH HAD TO BE REMOVED[SURGERY]ENLARGED GALL BLADDER WHICH IS MESSING UP, SURGEON SAYS IT WILL KILL ME TO LOOSE MY GALL BLADDER BECAUSE I DONT HAVE HARDLY NOTHING TO FIGHT OFF DISEASE,ALL THAT IS LEFT IS A BAD STAGE 4 CIRROHISOF THE LIVER AND GALLBLADDER.IM ALSO BI-POLAR MANIC DEPPRESSIVE, IVE HAD 12 SURGERIES,IM IM 41 YEARS OLD. I DONT DRINK,NEVER HAVE,DONT DO DRUGS,BEEN MARRIED 20 YEARS,HE DONT HAVE IT THANK GOD........IT ALL JUST DONT SEEM FAIR,BUT LIFE ISNT FAIR. ILL HAVE TO HAVE A LIVER TRANSPLANT WELL ILL GET BACK WITH U ALL WHEN I GO TO DOC AGAIN SD
i heard about this site from a friend "www.tibetan-medicine.org"
they say that they use ancient and old ways to treat all kinds of diseases, using herbs.
anybody heard about it?
i sent them a mail asking if they have any treatment for hepatitis C , and i have just got an answer from them affirming that they do have treatment for Hep. C.
ANYBODY KNOW ABOUT IT?
they say that they use ancient and old ways to treat all kinds of diseases, using herbs.
anybody heard about it?
i sent them a mail asking if they have any treatment for hepatitis C , and i have just got an answer from them affirming that they do have treatment for Hep. C.
ANYBODY KNOW ABOUT IT?
i agree, forget the ultrasounds, you are wasting money on an infective diagnostic tool for your father's case. i would get a new hepatologist, more versed in the latest studies.
Biopsy is the way to go, ultrasounds are not good at telling liver damage.
The hepatologist sounds like a jerk, I'd fire him. Look around for a doctor that treats a lot of hep c patients, maybe a GI or an Internal Medicine clinic.
The hepatologist sounds like a jerk, I'd fire him. Look around for a doctor that treats a lot of hep c patients, maybe a GI or an Internal Medicine clinic.
Biopsy is the gold standard. What's the point of another ultrasound? If the 3rd says cirrhosis, will you get a 4th?
Not sure how you could forget to tell us all this.
Does your father drink alcohol? Because the dr's statement about cirrhosis sounds like a scare-tactic to me. And if he does drink, the dr is right. If he doesn't, get another dr. Treatment w/pegylated interferon and ribavirin often reverses some of the liver damage, even if it does not cure the virus, and your dr should know this if he is up on current treatment.
Killing yourself will help nothing, especially your father. Best of luck to you and your dad.
dA
Not sure how you could forget to tell us all this.
Does your father drink alcohol? Because the dr's statement about cirrhosis sounds like a scare-tactic to me. And if he does drink, the dr is right. If he doesn't, get another dr. Treatment w/pegylated interferon and ribavirin often reverses some of the liver damage, even if it does not cure the virus, and your dr should know this if he is up on current treatment.
Killing yourself will help nothing, especially your father. Best of luck to you and your dad.
dA
thanks alot for your comments, you don't know how i wanted them.
by the way, the patient is my father, i really pray to god, he doesn't have cirrhosis , i would kill myself after him.
anyway,
i forgot to tell you that after we had that result saying "early cirrhosis" we went to the hepatologist and guess what , when my father asked him "what r we gonna do?", the doctor answered bluntly saying , "it is cirrhosis, what do you expect me to say, you know very well that cirrhosis has no treatment or cure".
you can not imagine how we all felt when we heard him saying so.
i just asked him "how about having another ultrasound?", he answered "what happened, you have always been with your ultrasound doctor, why do u wanna change him now, because he said something we don't like?!!!!!!, and he didn't like my request.
then he asked my dad to go and have a biopsy to make sure, but i asked him again to have another ultrasound before we have the biopsy, and he agreed and sent us to a well-known doctor, and we had it done, and the results were different, he just said, there is nothing to worry about, there is no cirrhosis.
and he said that the first sonographist is just mentioning things he shouldn't have mentioned.
when we found that they have two different points of view, we decided to visit a third ultrasound doctor, he is supposed to be the brilliant one in our country, we have an appointment tomorrow, we will see what he will say, and we will act accordingly.
wish me and my dad luck.and pray for my dad.
by the way, the patient is my father, i really pray to god, he doesn't have cirrhosis , i would kill myself after him.
anyway,
i forgot to tell you that after we had that result saying "early cirrhosis" we went to the hepatologist and guess what , when my father asked him "what r we gonna do?", the doctor answered bluntly saying , "it is cirrhosis, what do you expect me to say, you know very well that cirrhosis has no treatment or cure".
you can not imagine how we all felt when we heard him saying so.
i just asked him "how about having another ultrasound?", he answered "what happened, you have always been with your ultrasound doctor, why do u wanna change him now, because he said something we don't like?!!!!!!, and he didn't like my request.
then he asked my dad to go and have a biopsy to make sure, but i asked him again to have another ultrasound before we have the biopsy, and he agreed and sent us to a well-known doctor, and we had it done, and the results were different, he just said, there is nothing to worry about, there is no cirrhosis.
and he said that the first sonographist is just mentioning things he shouldn't have mentioned.
when we found that they have two different points of view, we decided to visit a third ultrasound doctor, he is supposed to be the brilliant one in our country, we have an appointment tomorrow, we will see what he will say, and we will act accordingly.
wish me and my dad luck.and pray for my dad.
I had a biopsy last week, the worst part was the meds that they use to sedate you ( they space you out for the rest of the day ).I was fine after the second day. You have to stay away from certain meds a week before and a week afterwards. All in all it was no big deal.
There are some rare complications involving bleeding, but those are very rare. Make sure your biopsy is ultrasound guided to prevent injury to other organs.
I do think it is a good idea to avoid strenuous activity for about a week instead of the two days they suggested.
Good luck
There are some rare complications involving bleeding, but those are very rare. Make sure your biopsy is ultrasound guided to prevent injury to other organs.
I do think it is a good idea to avoid strenuous activity for about a week instead of the two days they suggested.
Good luck
i agree, don't waist your time on another ultra sound because the biopsy is no big deal and that will give you alot of info about the condition of the liver that you can't get any other way...most of us have had a biopsy and would trust nothing else to give us that all important information...
if your dad is fearful, tell the dr to give your dad "Versed and Darvaset" or something like that, prior to the poke...it worked like a charm for me, i felt nothing at all, and actually enjoyed the tranquil journey and the bed rest for the day... the chances are very rare that anything will go wrong...especially if it's ultra sound guided...
your dad will be fine and this is the best you can do for him so they know where the damage is at and how best to treat it...your other dr was way off base...there are alot of things that can cause cirhosis besides alchohol and he had no right saying that to you. some people have been able to reverse some damage on thier livers ...and even if alcohol is the problem, if he stops now it could give him years and years of extra life...also be sure the dr figures out the cause...some things can be treated and he also may be able to get placed on a transplant list if it's bad.
i pray that you will find the info and that he gets the help he needs...
There is always hope and prayer!!! he's blessed to have you looking out for him...
sandi
if your dad is fearful, tell the dr to give your dad "Versed and Darvaset" or something like that, prior to the poke...it worked like a charm for me, i felt nothing at all, and actually enjoyed the tranquil journey and the bed rest for the day... the chances are very rare that anything will go wrong...especially if it's ultra sound guided...
your dad will be fine and this is the best you can do for him so they know where the damage is at and how best to treat it...your other dr was way off base...there are alot of things that can cause cirhosis besides alchohol and he had no right saying that to you. some people have been able to reverse some damage on thier livers ...and even if alcohol is the problem, if he stops now it could give him years and years of extra life...also be sure the dr figures out the cause...some things can be treated and he also may be able to get placed on a transplant list if it's bad.
i pray that you will find the info and that he gets the help he needs...
There is always hope and prayer!!! he's blessed to have you looking out for him...
sandi
are there any side effects to "liver biobsy"?
will it cause anything bad to the patient?
anybody here had a "biopsy"?
will it cause anything bad to the patient?
anybody here had a "biopsy"?
biopsies done with a guided ultrasound by a trained radiologist(which is what I had) are done in a blink of an eye. because they are guided there is less of a chance for puncturing any neighboring organs(one of the rare complications). You take it easy for a couple of days, and that is it. Ask a hepatologist about the procedure. Most here have had a biopsy and most seem to have had an uneventful time with it. Book an appt with a hepatologist soon.
I LOOKED THIS UP FOR YOU ABOUT "cephalocaudad dimention: " IT MEANS up and down the liver. I LOOKED THIS UP ABOUT PERIPORTAL INHANCEMENT: http://www.ajronline.org/cgi/content/full/176/4/891
"Moderate" Value : 306762 Copies/ml"... this unfortunately looks like the hepc came back or never fully resolved...test DON'T test down to zero so you must repeat the pcr 6 months and a year after hepc treatment is finished to make sure you're still negative...if after that time you are still negative you are in remission or clear depending on the dr you talk to...it should'nt be too late for this person to try another round of treatment also...
about "early cirrhosis" this tells a person that their liver now has alot of damage and could lead to liver failure down the road...each patient is different as to when liver failure will begin...but it also means you must be very active in finding out what's going on with the biopsy and monitoring liver numbers and living a salt free, low fat, healthy diet, void of toxins from as many sorces as possible...the person also needs their alph feto protien measured and scan regularly for bumps or spots on the liver...liver cancer can occure in cirhotic livers. the best is to catch it small...for this they do ct scans every few months...and of course the all important biopsy...(they are not that bad and you can get meds so it will be pain free)
your question; is it probable that cirrhosis
occurs suddenly even though "all" medical history "tests" are normal????
in this persons case they have not had "all" the tests...they are missing the tell all test! the big one is the LIVER BIOPSY!
****LIKE SAID BEFORE THEY NEED THIS AS A STARTING POINT AND THEN THEY NEED A HEPATOLOGIST OR AT LEAST A GASTROINTEROLOGIST TO BEGIN WITH! THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR PROPER CARE OR CURE!****
also note that the "Hepatic (blood) panel" will tell you if the liver is still functioning correctly, ie...taking out the toxins or if there are problems with certain functions of it or present cell death...if a recent test shows they are in "normal range" it simply means that for now the liver is "compensated". meaning the damage has'nt yet reached to a certain level of ceasing to function or decomposition...but again, decomposition can happen with out notice at this point and he needs monitoring and treatment ongoing...it will not get better on it's own without help from a liver specialist "hepatologist or a GI...
it is possible that the blood test shows "in the normal range" for a time and a person still have a major problem going on hepatically. blood tests go up and down frequently too...
my tests are "in the normal range" right now and i have bridging fibrosis, fatty liver, high iron and enlarged spleen and portal tension...this is the step right before your friends early cirhosis...
i really don't mean to scare you but, the time to act is now...i pray that your friend can kill the hep c and stop the liver from dieing so it never becomes decompensated...i also pray that he finds a good dr that will help him...
sandi
to get online support for cirhosis go here: they are kind and knowledgable.
http://groups.msn.com/CirrhosisSupportGroup
let us know what happens we care here at medhelp too.
"Moderate" Value : 306762 Copies/ml"... this unfortunately looks like the hepc came back or never fully resolved...test DON'T test down to zero so you must repeat the pcr 6 months and a year after hepc treatment is finished to make sure you're still negative...if after that time you are still negative you are in remission or clear depending on the dr you talk to...it should'nt be too late for this person to try another round of treatment also...
about "early cirrhosis" this tells a person that their liver now has alot of damage and could lead to liver failure down the road...each patient is different as to when liver failure will begin...but it also means you must be very active in finding out what's going on with the biopsy and monitoring liver numbers and living a salt free, low fat, healthy diet, void of toxins from as many sorces as possible...the person also needs their alph feto protien measured and scan regularly for bumps or spots on the liver...liver cancer can occure in cirhotic livers. the best is to catch it small...for this they do ct scans every few months...and of course the all important biopsy...(they are not that bad and you can get meds so it will be pain free)
your question; is it probable that cirrhosis
occurs suddenly even though "all" medical history "tests" are normal????
in this persons case they have not had "all" the tests...they are missing the tell all test! the big one is the LIVER BIOPSY!
****LIKE SAID BEFORE THEY NEED THIS AS A STARTING POINT AND THEN THEY NEED A HEPATOLOGIST OR AT LEAST A GASTROINTEROLOGIST TO BEGIN WITH! THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR PROPER CARE OR CURE!****
also note that the "Hepatic (blood) panel" will tell you if the liver is still functioning correctly, ie...taking out the toxins or if there are problems with certain functions of it or present cell death...if a recent test shows they are in "normal range" it simply means that for now the liver is "compensated". meaning the damage has'nt yet reached to a certain level of ceasing to function or decomposition...but again, decomposition can happen with out notice at this point and he needs monitoring and treatment ongoing...it will not get better on it's own without help from a liver specialist "hepatologist or a GI...
it is possible that the blood test shows "in the normal range" for a time and a person still have a major problem going on hepatically. blood tests go up and down frequently too...
my tests are "in the normal range" right now and i have bridging fibrosis, fatty liver, high iron and enlarged spleen and portal tension...this is the step right before your friends early cirhosis...
i really don't mean to scare you but, the time to act is now...i pray that your friend can kill the hep c and stop the liver from dieing so it never becomes decompensated...i also pray that he finds a good dr that will help him...
sandi
to get online support for cirhosis go here: they are kind and knowledgable.
http://groups.msn.com/CirrhosisSupportGroup
let us know what happens we care here at medhelp too.
the best way to determine liver damage at present is through a biopsy. Ultrasounds and other tests can assist but might not tell the full story. Normal enzymes are not a good indicator of no liver damage. Many have normal levels and have advanced liver disease. Is his doctor a hepatologist? If not, he needs to get one ASAP.
the comments you get here are from hep c patients or relatives, there are no doctors monitoring this forum, the members will share their knowledge and experiences, but your friend needs a hepatologist consult soon.
best to you
the comments you get here are from hep c patients or relatives, there are no doctors monitoring this forum, the members will share their knowledge and experiences, but your friend needs a hepatologist consult soon.
best to you
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