milk thistle, again

[nazzareno]

I know this is a newcomer question but I'm curious about how many are still taking milk thistle. My Dr. sad it won't hurt my liver but I'm wondering if it's worth the cost? All opinions appreciated.
thanks,
Roy

[willing]

have taken an interest in this as I'm about a month away from first pills for my next round of tx and on the lookout for anything that will interfere with viral replication during that critical first phase decline.  The best option, by far, seems to be vials with 350mg of pure, pharmaceutical-grade, sylibinin manfufactured by Madaus under the name IV SIL. Silibyin is likely the main active ingredient in the silymarin (milk thistle) complex. These are intended for intravenous use. Some recent results are impressive. Here monotherapy was sufficient to prevent re-infection of a new liver, post-transplant,
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20413176
and here IV-SIL in conjunction with soc yielded SVR in an HIV/HCV co-infection in a G1, and with an abbreviated course of SOC due to discontinuance:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20709593
However, there are two big problems. Madaus was bought by an Italian firm, Rottapharm in 2007 which does not appear interested in making IV SIL available. Second, you have to find a Dr. willing to administer  this via an IV drip - not easy.

Next on the list is silybinin complexed with phosphatidylcholine (PC) which goes by the name silipide or a trademark siliphos. Modification by addition of the PC group  significantly enhances bioavailability ( this modification, which generally goes underthe heading "phytosome technology" has been used to make a number of other plant-derived medicinals more effective). Recent, free access,  reviews by Parris Kidd from  Berkeley are:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16164374
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19803548
Indena, also an Italian company, seems to hold the trademark for siliphos and much of the early research on phytosome technology was pioneered by Italian groups.
Last in the list is good old silymarin - which is available everywhere. There is a nice article by Lucinda Porter, an RN on HCV advocate on milk-thisle supplements:
http://www.hcvadvocate.org/news/newsLetter/2010/advocate0210.html
Analysis by a supplement-testing company ConsumerLab found that only 1 of 10 milk-thistle products tested met criteria for approval.  

Personal bottom line is that I'd like to add 500-1000mg of Silipide(Idb1016) the originally reported silybin-PT complex from pre-dose (week -4) to w12 and am looking for suppliers - please  post if you've found  a good source for this form.

[mhudnall]

New evidence implies that milk thistle interrupts the Hepatitis C virus' reproduction and proliferation cycles.

by Nicole Cutler, L.Ac.

For centuries, the extract from the milk thistle plant has been used to improve liver function. This practice is widely recognized - especially by the millions of people living with chronic Hepatitis C - a viral infection that can cause progressive damage to the liver. Hundreds of studies have provided evidence that silymarin, milk thistle's extract, is a potent liver cell protector. However, there have also been an abundance of conflicting reports regarding milk thistle's ability to directly affect the Hepatitis C virus. Providing even more reason for those with Hepatitis C to take milk thistle, a new study tips the scales of doubt by showing that silymarin exerts multiple effects against the lifecycle of the Hepatitis C virus.

Two previous studies that have indicated silymarin's usefulness against Hepatitis C include:

· The February 2008 issue of Hepatology looked at milk thistle use among 1,145 participants in the HALT-C study, sponsored by the National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Disease. Although milk thistle users in this study showed similar liver enzyme levels and Hepatitis C viral loads to non-users, those taking milk thistle showed fewer liver-related symptoms and an improved quality of life.

· The March 2010 issue of Gastroenterology published a French study where researchers evaluated a commercially available intravenous preparation of silibinin - the most active component of silymarin - in those with the Hepatitis C virus. The researchers agreed that silibinin inhibited Hepatitis C polymerase function - a result comparable to what the STAT-C (specifically targeted antiviral therapy for Hepatitis C) drugs can do - without their accompanying hazards.

The new study that further identifies milk thistle as an anti-Hepatitis C substance examined the antiviral properties and mechanisms of silymarin on cultured (grown in a lab) human liver cells infected with the virus. The study, funded in part by the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine (NCCAM), was published in the June 2010 edition of the journal, Hepatology.

After growing human liver cells and infecting them with the Hepatitis C virus, the cells were exposed to either standard Hepatitis C drug treatment or a diluted dose of silymarin. The researchers then found the following:

· Silymarin prevented the entry and fusion of the Hepatitis C virus into the target liver cells.

· Silymarin inhibited the ability of the virus to produce RNA, thus interfering with a portion of the virus' lifecycle.

· When measured against untreated cells, silymarin significantly decreased viral load (although to a lesser degree than treatment with interferon did).

· Silymarin prevented the cell-to-cell spread of the Hepatitis C virus.

Upon carefully taking all of the variables into account, the researchers concluded that silymarin's antiviral action appears to include blocking the entry and transmission of the Hepatitis C virus, possibly by targeting the host cell.

Experts agree that more well-structured trials are needed to understand, quantify and verify silymarin's effectiveness against the Hepatitis C virus. More ammunition is required to break down the wall of doubt surrounding this herb's contribution to the Hepatitis C community. In the meantime, there is sufficient evidence confirming silymarin's ability to protect liver cells and improve liver function - two properties that everyone with Hepatitis C could benefit from.


References:

http://nccam.nih.gov/research/results/spotlight/061610.htm, Effects of Milk Thistle Extract on the Hepatitis C Virus Lifecycle, Retrieved August 13, 2010, National Institutes of Health National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine, 2010.

http://www.hcvadvocate.org/news/newsLetter/2010/advocate0210.html#2, Healthwise: Milk Thistle, Lucinda K. Porter, RN, Retrieved August 13, 2010, Hepatitis C Support Project, 2010.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19962982, Silibinin and related compounds are direct inhibitors of hepatitis C virus RNA-dependent RNA polymerase, Ahmed-Belkacem A, et al, Retrieved August 14, 2010, Gastroenterology, March 2010.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20512985, Multiple effects of silymarin on the hepatitis C virus lifecycle, Wagoner J, et al, Retrieved August 13, 2010, Hepatology, June 2010.

http://www.webmd.com/digestive-disorders/tc/milk-thistle-topic-overview?ecd=wnl_hep_071510, Milk Thistle - Topic Overview, Retrieved August 14, 2010, WebMD, LLC, 2010.

[Season05]

How about the GNC one?

[cm1958]

Hello,my doctor at the liver institute of dallas recommended milk thistle for HCV

[deadmanwalking814]

Thanks for the info. on the Mega MT900mg. I payed 26.99 for 250mg 200caps.which at 3x`s a day is approx. 66days. so the Mega MT is 900mg 100caps. for 29.99, 1 a day & actually a better buy. Thanks again & May God Bless.

[scratchinghead]

I would say the more MT the better, but I only play a doctor on TV. . . .
If what we read is true, then the MT from Life Extension Foundation is the purest, strongest, capable of leaping tall buildings in one bound . . . I use it. It is more expensive.

[deadmanwalking814]

I just saw my doctor on Aug. 26th & asked him about taking Milkthisle & he did not shot it down, so I got some. But now I`m wondering if 250mg. 3x a day is too much. Two in the morning & one at supper. O by the way, I`m also not on tx now & am waiting with the rest suppositely for June of 2011 for the new tx. Hang in there & May God Bless.

[nazzareno]

Thanks, I'm looking at Jarrow Formula M.T. on Amazon. It looks pure but it's really hard to tell what's the most healthy brand.
Roy

[scratchinghead]

I had digetstion problems (gas, etc) with Milk Thistle but kept it up and the problems went away.

Do the Milk Thistle and all the other recomended nutrients here by HR and Gauff and others. These are positive things you can do today, while you wait.

[nazzareno]

thanks, I'm off tx now & waiting with the herd. Been taking 175mg M.T. 2x day for months. Does not seem to be harming anything.

[pcds]

if you have hcv and waiting to treat with new meds, it can be helpful in protecting your liver from the virus.

[susan400]

Roy,

While M.T. is helpful to some while they are not on treatment, it is generally not recommended to take M.T. while using treatment drugs as they can interfere with the absorption of the TX drugs.  That's what I was told.  Also, keep in mind the about 99% of the time M.T. will not cure anybody of HCV.  It will help your liver run better if used off of TX and if you are able to tolerate it.  I, myself cannot take M.T. because it causes me to wheeze.  I have mild asthma and it triggers it.  

Take care,

Susan400