milk thistle is awesome stuff

[niceguy2007]

guys i gotta tell u milk thistle really works.

i just remembered how down i felt 3 months ago before and after diagnosis.  i took milk thistle and now i feel pretty normal.  

i was off milk thistle and the other bunch of homeopathic medicines for 20 days now...last nite i stayed up late and had little sleep...the laptop on my legs this morning made my legs ache really bad..i also got floating things in front of my eyes.

i opened up a bottle of alochol based milk thistle extract without compounds...this was pure milk thistle and i hadnt tried it before.  the one i was using earlier was a mixture with other herbs and stuff.

now as i put in 5 drops into my glass, i noticed the yellowish ethanol color slowly dissappeared, and a whitish stuff starting floating on the surface of the water in the glass.  so thats what it looks like, i said.

then i added pure dandilion extract called taraxacum, and lycopodium 30 potency, chelidonium pure extract, and drank it.

5 minutes later, i was feeling on top of the world.  this stuff is like magic!  my dad says that alcohol content is tiny in these medicines compared to a drink...he sayz this is less than 1 gram of alcohol a day.

[timedog]

I have to ask how one dose of anything other then mind altering drugs makes you feel better.

[torry1028]

It works.  I've had Hep C for 35 years.  I've taken Milk thistle for 15 of those years.  It works.  I also take Nu-Liver, a herb formula..It also works!

[Myown]

Oy Vei,,,,

[beamishboy]

gosh!!!!!....milk thistle? what is this powerful and innovative herbal remedy?....maybe i can find a reference in the archives...under 'cocktails'  or 'old crow'....

[NYgirl]

I have some new cure that I found that I can sell you...cheap Beamer!

It's not milk thistle but it's also called milk.  It's this white stuff that comes in several different type size packages and you drink it down and mmmmm your liver is magically healed and all of your symptoms go immediately away!

Let me know if you want to buy some and I'll set up a payment plan PRONTO!

:)

[Lady E]

ei yay yay! Hmmm...ok, this is starting to get to me. I'm going to go do some painting. The color I'm using for paint is called Glass Of Milk. Maybe if I inadvertantly inhale some of it's latex fumes, it'll cure me in time to watch Oprah later. Gawd, I hope so!

[lab-rat]

Don't dismiss milk thistle so easily.  It does seem to help some people.  My doctor is doing a milk thistle study beginning the end of October, mainly for subjects with non-alcoholic fatty liver disease.  They'll be required to stay a couple of nights in the hospital so their blood can be monitered after taking various doses of milk thistle with food.  I've mentioned that a friend of mine with chronic hcv took nothing more than milk thistle and is now undetectable (after having the disease around 20+ years).  Nobody believes the milk thistle cured her (including me)...but how common is it for someone to clear the virus on their own after it being active for so long? I don't know...does anybody?

[Lady E]

My doc agreed that it was ok to take it along with tx(tho I opted not to)..but if something this simple was the CURE for HCV, (& Im sure their are exceptions to every rule) but..I don't think we'd be doing what we're doing. Nor would the drug companies continue to research it.

Sorry, Im in one of those RibaRage, eye rolling & sighing, & can't put up with BS today days.
E

[Kalio1]

There is NO evidence milk thistle does anything at all other than make you spend money on it.There isn't any data showing it actually helps your liver. If you have such data, please post it here. Until then, my money stays in my wallet.
I think milk thistle's "benefits" are all in your mind and not your liver.
I still say "show me the biopsy"

[cuteus]

lab rat, have you seen your friend's PCR tests and biopsy results before and after milk thistle? or do you just take his/her word and spread the message and start a new cyber myth?
MT does have some healing properties, but it is not an antiviral and as far as I have read, it is not an immune system enhancer.  Please direct us to where she is been researched by the medical community for her miracle recovery.

[Kalio1]

So far there is not one single confirmed case of a person who has chronic hepatitis being cured of the virus via ANY means other than with Interferon/Ribivirin therapy. Not one. I am sure if there was such a case as you claim, that could be subtantiated through DNA testing, it would be big news. It never ceases to amaze me the wild claims people will buy into. Not one person treating with the current standard of care would go through the treatment IF there truly was a viable alternative. We choose Interferon therapy because we have educated ourselves about this disease and it's treatment an that is the ONLY thing that works to rid yourself of the virus. It does not work for everyone, but it is all we have at this point in time that has been PROVEN to work.

[Myown]

milk thistle definitely lowers the enzymes, mine have been normal a week after i started taking it. its good for your liver that the enzymes are lowered, but we still have the virus.

can it be possible someone's hep disappeared after taking milk thisle alone? to me, nothing is impossible, but MT doesn't seem to work that way for everyone.

even a holistic doctor I was seeing said,"get the Peggys tx, this holistic doc thinks this as being the only way, at this time to clear.

the medical community, FDA and powers that be will fight tooth and nail to hide that a natural remedy cures hep, if in fact that happens. too much money to be lost.

follow what happened to Dr. Stanley Byrzynski(sp?) with his non toxic tx of cancer. He was on 60 minutes  with barbara walters, his non toxic method of cancer tx saved lives of people, children with brain cancer, whom big NY cancer hospital had written off, told had no hope. now after Dr. B's tx they went into remission, after they had been given a death sentence.Too long to tell you everything this doctor has been through. Court battles etc. But since then, he continues to help alot of people.

FDA and oncologists don't like that noise. Money, money money.

[cuteus]

myown, if that dr was able to make it to the news with his miracle tx, don't you think someone would have made it with the MT claim? do you really think the FDA is that powerful? It obviously isn't, since this other dr made it to Barbara Walters.

[kakatua]

Milk Tistle...
order mine today !

[Myown]

FDA is beyond powerful. Calton Fredricks,pioneer in nutrition,deceased, one day on his radio show listed NAMES of people on the FDA board who were given "positions" with large pharmasuticals (sp?ha so sad). I'm sure they didn't have to show up for work, though, just their pay check. A little conflict of interest, I'd say.

Dr. B did make it to the BW show, but they discussed how the gov, broke into his office and stole all his records. They tried to claim he was doing this illegal. yada yada yada He is practicing now though, he is by the book, can't stop him, but they TRIED real hard.Other doctors were raising money for him to do his court battles because the FDA does try to be that powerful.

His tx initally starts  at his facility in Texas, then after that people can actually do it at home. The FdA tried to even stop this,,saying tx couldn't be taken across state line and some other stuff, can't remember all details. But this also has been in all the health newsletters, besides regular news item.

He tells people out right, It is not a cure for every kind of cancer , but many that had no hope are alive and well after tx.
One mother in particular on BW show said she was told by the top NY doctors, nothing more could be done for her sons brain tumor. That little boys tumor is history at this point and he is well.

It's only common sense that there is way too much money to be lost if chemo is dead and gone. Even our doctors...have you ever been at the doc when a sales rep comes in...I have heard conversations that really make you wonder and I have known reps. its all about perks!!! how many broadway shows these doctor will see is the litmus test as to what drug is being bought from which rep.

are there honorable doctors out there that won't buy into all this? I'm sure there are and I hope we all have that doctor.

Too bad we didn't all live near the same Star Bucks, we could talk all day. haha Gotta run, I'm getting into a bad habit of sitting here every morning reading as I sip my coffee,,hmm coffee? good for liver or bad? where's Rev, wasn't it him said said,,,,,,,,,,

[NYgirl]

Please don't fall susceptible to the politics of medicine vs. the good old fashion need to make a buck.

Dr.Burzynski is like a ton of other "doctors" in the fact that I guarantee you there is a book behind him somewhere and he is an author trying to make some cash.

We can all say whatever we want in America but it DOESNT make things TRUE.  There is NO cure except Interferon and Riba currently.  Just none.

I've lost 70% of my hair. Killed my thyroid off.  Do you REALLY think that I haven't looked into other treatments before I decided to continue onwards to week 72 of this?

You could find and research 1000s of doctor who will tell you that the medical companies are what drive the medications we use today and THAT is all true.  But that info is used as a tool to drive sales of books mostly - read this book on my natural cure and supplement therapy and you will be healed! type stuff.  A colonic a day and you will wash all the impurities from your body if you do it in conjunction with my special supplement vitamin QRD! Only $19.99!

IF there was ANY chance that ANYONE was cured by ANY of these things...don't you think it would be on the front page of the NYTimes AND the WallStreet Journal?

(I have a friend who really believes that the tele-evangelist Benny Hinn raised someone from the dead in Ghana....they wont NOT believe it didn't happen but again if someone popped up back from the dead after a few days because someone prayed on him...don't you THINK it would be the biggest news in the WORLD?  Same sort of thing and just as absurd).

PS Just as so not to offend - I am a born again and do believe in the power of prayer...I just don't believe that.  If someone is already with God what would the purpose be to separate him? Isn't that pretty much the definition of hell ;)

Just don't want to start a religious war to make a completely OTHER point.

THE ONLY CURRENT CURE THAT THERE IS FOR HCV IS INTERFERON/RIBAVIRIN.  End of the story. Unfortunately but true.

[Alady1620]

I know that Milk Thistle is not a cure but, if and when I relapse, I'm definitely gonna get some.

[Myown]

NYgirl..I agree with you as far as Interferon and riba being the only "cure" at this time. It's in my post.

Dr. B's work goes well beyond some fly by night on the internet selling a cure potion or book. I understand what you are saying about "those" types, but certainly can't put him into that category. After much public outcry and investigation, his tx can be covered by insurance, but only after coventional tx fails. Too bad for the one who would rather just go straight to the alternative with Dr. B... Maybe now they can, I haven't been following whats been going on with him for some time now.

I don't know if Dr B has a book out yet, but hopefully he will. Why shouldn't a a doctor with an alternative tx to cancer have his works published? Conventional doctors who tx cancer write books and thats not a bad thing, its a helpful tool for others.

Benny Hinn,,,thats a whole other story. I have my feelings on that, but too much typing it would invlove.lol I agree about some of it and disagree maybe about the showy look of it, but I better not start. I talk toooooo much. ha

have a good day...so glad everything worked out for you with insurance, Thank God for our Kalio!!,,,,she blazed the trail for the rest of us to follow if need be, yeah, she's the girl!

[Kalio1]

Thanks for the credit, but I can't take it. I was told about CTC from this forum, from Rearfang to be exact. It helped me so very much I try to continue to post the information I was given to others. What goes around comes around!

[GoofyDad]

I hate to say "My doc says......". But, my doc says MT is protective of the liver cells. I specifically asked whether it might scrub the enzymes that were released during celluar death, destruction, annihilation, and the resulting embarassment.
He says no, he believes MT protects the liver cells from slaughter. So I'll keep taking it, as long as my ALT remains above 25.

[Forseegood]

okay, I'll wade into the breach here...recently I took two weeks off from my herb and supplementation regimen, cause my doc told me to to just clean my system out entirely...he's okay with my regimen btw, and is a leading liver head here...

I gotta tell ya, I didn't feel as well as I do now once I started up again - I got these very subtle aches and malaise, stuff like that the regimen really helps...as far as the feeling better right away, that's because if you take something packed with anti=oxidants you get a feeling of well being, I know I do after I take my regimen with some green tea or a fruit shake...but no, I don't feel 100%, just a lot better...

But yeah, still going to try regular treatment cause that's the only thing that rids the virus from the body and boy would I love that, not even having to deal with this anymore...., but if youre in between treating, or have decided to wait for the Vertex or whatever, a good regimen is an excellent thing to do in my view...along with eating well and exercise, etc...

I know I feel a bit better after I eat a really big veggie salad, the liver loves a big dose of enzymes like that...

[lab-rat]

I'm not trying to spread some cyber myth about milk thistle being a cure for hcv.  My study doctor believes that it is beneficial enough to warrant further research and is running a clinical trial.  He also told me NOT to take it with tx because it may cause interactions.  

The friend I'm referring to I've known for over 30 years.  She was diagnosed about 4 years ago, bx - stage 1 (not sure of grade) and she decided to wait to treat (doctor's advice).  After taking MT for a couple of years, she decided to get treatment, however the bloodwork detected no virus. She has been to 2 different doctors (in 2 different parts of the country) and in her words "they can't find it" - which I take to mean "undetectable".  I was wondering if anyone knew how she could have cleared the virus after having it for so long (20 years)?  Does this happen?

[Kalio1]

Lots of doctors say that but we need the data to back it up. So far we don't have any. We don't know if it is the MT or if enzymes would normalize on their own with nothing. If people want to spend money on it and think it helps, power to them. I don't think people should take it while treating but as my doctor put it " it neither hurts nor helps as far as we know" but he did not want me to take it with treatment, he said it could "interfere" with SOC.

[Forseegood]

I agree that I don't think people should take this specific herb while taking conventional tx, cause it has a tendency to clear certain liver pathways, and you want that medicine to stay in your system the longest time possible...

But just like the conventional tx doesn't work for everybody, herbals don't either from what I can see...but that doesn't mean that we should extrapolate from one case to everybody else...It didn't work for me so it doesn't work for anybody...nobodys doing that with conventional tx...I never like to make one individual's experience a universal...

it does help with symptoms with me...but of course, anyone else can choose to do, or not do, whatever they feel best with their own bodies...my doc approves of what I do in the meantime...and no one is talking about cures...

[cuteus]

your friend could have still been in the acute stage of the disease and she spontaneously cleared it. Her immune system, not MT. or the PCR used is the 615 IU sensitivity and the VL too low. Do you know these details?

[timlotus]

There's a pretty good review of the clinical evidence concerning milk thistle here:
http://www.ahrq.gov/clinic/epcsums/milktsum.htm

It probably doesn't do much harm, and it often seems to lower liver enzymes but here is very mixed evidence about whether it actually improves liver disease of any kind. The German medical establishment use it quite a lot - they are quite keen on herbs.

[lab-rat]

That's what is baffling...she couldn't have been in the acute stage.  She contracted it sometime in the early 80s but was diagnosed and biopsied about 4-5 years ago. Unfortunately I don't know what her viral load numbers were, but I did tell her to be sure and get tested annually to make sure it doesn't "come back".

[timlotus]

By coincidence I was talking to one of my students today and this exact thing seems to have happened to his sister (who is an active IV drug user for the past 10 years)

She had positive PCRs for a few years and then a couple of years ago it cleared without treatment, and she is negative since. She remains antibody positive of course, as we all do.

I hadn't heard of this before, but my student said his sister's doctor said this is far from unknown.

[Myown]

Kalio,,well even if you weren't the one who found out first, you let the message continue and not be lost in the sauce. Always new people comming on board, so it always helps to have people such as your self and many others who give us info, that you may have learned from prior posts.

Your sharing of that info is a life saver to any of us who may have to use this, such as NYgirl. At least any of us ever encountering what NYgirl did at the pharmacy, won't drop dead on the spot from a heart attack. We will know, BECAUSE OF YOU. I don't know Rearfang, never saw his post, wasn't here then.

It teaches us all that info has to be continuely shared and repeated for newbies comming by all the time. That takes patience from all you guys who have been here long. The archives are great, but sometimes you just want that "almost live" communication with current people. So thanks again!

Lab-rat(love your name,that's funny)....That's something about your friend. I believe it. I'm just curious as to whether this virus is hiding or really is gone. But even with  successful tx, we have to wonder that same thing. Six of one,half dozen of the other.

I think this is great news! Could have been a bunch of people praying for her too, but that is just a belief of mine and I don't expect people to agree nor do I have a problem with people who would disagree with me. To each his own. You are fortunate to have a doctor who sees that MT may be beneficial.Glad to hear he is doing a study. I am going to stop the MT before I tx also. Glad to hear this is what your doctor reccomends also, because I wasn't sure if I should stop or not.

[Forseegood]

if youre around, weigh in! no one's talking about cures...if there is a case out there, anything's possible, but of course that's not the norm, or else we'd all be taking herbs exclusively...I wish it were all psycho-somatic, I'd save some money and not take my regimen...Tylenol doesnt' work for my headaches, wish some psycho-somatic thing would work there, the only that does is Advil, which isn't the best thing to take for me I'm told...I can tell what works or not with my own body...some things do, some don't...

[GoofyDad]

Well, you know I'm one who likes data. So, I gotta agree with you. But the annectdotal evidence seems pretty compelling on this one. Combine that with low cost and risk factors, and as long as the MT remains orally administered, I'm going to keep on keeping on.

As long as we're flogging this hosre, anyone have any tips or suggestions on supplements and diet for a SVR cirrhotic who's also celebrating hemmorhoidal remission?

[Kalio1]

If I wasn't on tx I would be considering using Mt amongst other things. I plan on using a regular regimen once I clear this dang virus. Only 5 months left to go!

My platelets have gone up to 137. That is a little over double what they were at dx. Since I take nothing but SOC and good nutrition, I attribute it to either good nutrition or that my liver is healing from tx or both. One thing I do daily is my trusty frozen berries/yogurt/soy milk/protein powder drinks and keep my protein intake up. Also plenty of fresh, raw fruits and veggies. No greasy or fatty foods, no trans or saturated fats, oths of omega 3's. I was told that I didn't need any diet modifications at all and to eat as usual but I do try to keep salt intake low. I also do not eat beef except maybe a few bites on rare occasion. Salmon is the new beef LOL

Are you on maintenance ifn to try to reverse some damage? I can't remember. I think I am going to go that route. I want to try doing both alpha and gamma if I can swing it. MKndrew saw such fantastic results in his liver histology I am taking a page out of his book.
Then we have ome promising fibrotic reversal possibilities in trials now, so I am optimistic about reversing some of this damage. My doctor thinks the progression is exacerbated by the mode of transmission via spinal injection. He said he sees similar situations in patients who contracted HCV through transfusion. Maybe it has to do with the amount of virus you are given to begin with? I must have gotten a hefty dose.

[Pdilly]

Some herbal remedies do help.  I think the jury is out on Milk Thistle.  I imagine it is staring to warrent more testing and hey, if it works or even helps, cool.

[hiddenspring1542]

There is strong evidence that nutritional supplements such as antioxidants can play a very important role in limiting the damage HCV causes in the liver. Antioxidants can counteract the damage caused by increased free radical activity in the body. Other nutrients such as glutamine are important in the production of glutathione, an antioxidant used by the liver to break down toxins, drugs, and chemicals. Adding appropriate nutritional supplements may have a significantly positive effect on the health of your liver and on the progression of hepatitis C.
©Copyright 2004 Hepatitis C Caring Ambassadors Program All Rights Reserved
ISBN 0-9740228-2-9 Opentracker: Web Site Analytics
Source: http://hepcchallenge.org/choices/supplements.htm
Find TAB at top of page titled Treatment Options it offers a scroll down menu.

[GoofyDad]

No. I'm not on maintenance. Considered extending for the anti-fibrotic benefits, but the liverheads pow-wowed and recomended against it. Didn't like the risk/reward ratio - they felt there was definite risk from more INF, and couldn't be assured there was a real chance for benefit. I later read that there's a therapy where they inject INF directly into the wienie (ouch) for whatever that disease is that can make it crooked. The idea is the INF breaks down the scarring -- that theraputic concept helps reinforce the idea for me. BTW, I'm not sure that a bent wienie is always a bad thing, but you gals would know better.

Maybe you and others can help define the transition from fibrosis to cirrhosis for me. Apparently there are specific architectural changes that occur. Presuming those changes are what we really want to undo, I wonder whether INF targets them too, as it seems to do for scarring?

Your platelet increase is a great sign. Intuitively, it makes sense that you could bounced back quickly since you progressed so quickly. I really, really hope we see continued improvements for you. Great news.  Take care.

[beamishboy]

i ate milk thistle,samE,glutothine,NAC,Lipoic acid,vit E&C,silenium,folic acid before trx...i am not anti-supplemnts at all...just tired of reading the 'newly discovered' miracle potion of the day....we have discussed this supplemnt many times-it is NOT recommended while on TRX....ARCHIVES anyone??

[jboyhk]

Here is the truth on Dr B for those who want to know

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/burzynski1.html

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/cancer.html

:In 1988, Burzynski got a tremendous boost when talk-show hostess Sally Jesse Raphael featured four "miracles," patients of Burzynski, who she said were cancer-free. The patients stated that Burzynski had cured them when conventional methods had failed. In 1992, "Inside Edition" reported that two of the four patients had died and a third was having a recurrence of her cancer. (The fourth patient had bladder cancer, which has a good prognosis.) The widow of one of Raphael's guests stated that her husband and five others from the same city had sought treatment after learning about Burzynski from a television broadcast -- and that all had died of their disease. In 1995, a federal grand jury indicted Burzynski for mail fraud and marketing an unapproved drug. The indictment charged that he had billed insurance companies using procedure codes for chemotherapy, even though his treatment was not chemotherapy. He was tried in 1997 but not convicted."

[jboyhk]

Here is another qwack called Lawrence Burton. What 60 Minutes did borders on criminal.


:Immuno-augmentative therapy (IAT) was developed by Lawrence Burton, Ph.D., a zoologist who claimed he could stimulate the immune system's natural ability to detect and destroy cancer cells. He claimed to accomplish this by injecting protein extracts isolated with processes he had patented. However: (a) the immune system does not detect and destroy cancer cells as Burton postulated, and (b) the substances he claimed to use cannot be produced by the procedures described in his patent applications and have not been demonstrated to exist in the human body [32].


In 1980, CBS-TV's "60 Minutes" gave Burton a tremendous publicity boost when a prominent physician stated that one of his patients appeared to have recovered miraculously with Burton's treatment. Although the patient died of his cancer twelve days after the program was shown, "60 Minutes" refused to inform viewers of this fact."

[beamishboy]

ahhh but the patient got his 15 minutes of fame on 60 minutes!! then died 12 days later??-huh... numerology anyone??

[Kalio1]

that is the million dollar question! A hard one to answer too.
I found this to be a very informative site.

http://www.thedoctorsdoctor.com/diseases/cirrhosis.htm

[lab-rat]

Thanks for your response.  It helps to know that this is not just one isolated incident.  For some reason the virus is being suppressed to undetectable levels.  We just don't know why.

[kstar]

Yesterday I was on the phone to Harvard (thanks Jim for the advise)...one of my questions was about nutritional support since I too am taking milk thistle at the request of my doctor.  Harvard said that there are now clincial trails in the US do to the success of milk thistle in the Eastern world.  This is not to say that it "cures" hep c but milk thistle and its active constituent, "silymarin" are used to support the liver.  It may help to protect the liver from toxins and fatty build-up and support the regeneration process in cases of liver damage.

[Kalio1]

I am wondering if the doctor recommends taking it while on tx or was his recommendation for those not on treatment? I have heard over and over that we should not take MT while on tx but tht doesn't mean the advice is given for any reason other than to not add ingredients to the mix. Without proof, doctors ( including mine) who advise against taking it on tx I think are just erring on the side of caution because they don't have any definitive answers yet rather than saying to avoid it on tx based on the fact that it can interfere or cause problems with tx.

[kstar]

Through my own research and questions I have asked my medical Doc (who is simply amazing), I have no fear taking mt.  It is presently being tested in other areas of allopathic med, where the liver is involved, with great success.  I sometimes believe that with all the lawsuits in this country, doctors are afraid to recommend anything that does not have the goverments approval.  Each of us as individuals must make the final decision. Be educated and trust in knowing that you will make the best choice available for you with or without the blessing of others.

[Kalio1]

Yes, I realize that. I was just curious as to what the doctor from Harvard had said anything about MT while on treatment with interferon and riba.
I consulted with several doctors before starting treatment and they all said the same thing, that MT interferes with the meds and to not use it while on tx. I don't know if you are on treatment or not, but I am and I won't do anything that could possibly interfere with the treatment. Too much at stake. I just wondered if he addressed that issue.

[kstar]

Sorry, no they just mentioned that clinical trails were under way do to success in other countries.

[jmjm530]

If you spoke to Dr. A, you're speaking to one of the best. Personally, I didn't take milk thistle prior to treatment for a number of reasons and once I had an early viral drop I was reluctant to add anything new to the regimen, in other words don't rock a boat that was sailing just fine.

Don't know if you missed my post on Dr. Afdhal at Havard/Beth Israel in Boston. It occured to me when you told NY Girl you might see Dr. A for a second opinion that Afdhal might serve your needs better. Credential and bed-side mannerwise, they are in the same league but the difference is that Afdhal has a Fibroscan device in his office and as a private patient of his you'll probably be scanned. I mention this because I believe you've never had a biopsy so getting a Fibroscan with a consult may be your ticket. BTW I was scanned one during tx and once after. It correlated very well with my pre-tx scan. You also might find that Afdhal acccepts more insurance polices being part of Beth Israel/Havard. My understandin g is that Dr. A does not accept insurance.

http://tinyurl.com/nbavn

[jmjm530]

Third sentence from last should have read in part "it correlated very well with my pre-tx biopsy". My post tx scan actually dropped me close to a stage which was very encouraging.

[jmjm530]

Sentence should have read of course :



"It occured to me when you told NY Girl you might see Dr. J for a second opinion " NOT "Dr. A" as writtten