quick homeopathic comment

I had read over in the other thread that chcnme had sent a message to me Jane Doe, as Jane Dough. Ha Ha I get it. What a shame that it IS possible that someone DOES have something important, vital, positive, and encouraging to offer this board that simply IS NOT INTERFERON !!! Are you all so closed minded?
I understand the seriousness of this disease... I HAVE IT!
But for people to make statements that it is absolutely impossible for homeopathic to cure Hec C, period end of story, well I'm sorry that you are so smart. That 'intellect' just might be your loss.
I do not expect to be believed by just posting here, I came here in the 'middle' of my treatment to make a mark, and we'll see how this goes. But I know for a fact that my doctor has 'cured' many hep patients. Not helped, not lowered enzymes, not helped them cope with it, cured as in negative in the blood.
I am not here to give false hope, I'm certainly not selling anything because my meds I get over the counter in Italy from the best homeopathic company (OTIS) in Rome, I don't sell homeopathic meds. I am simply here to show another option of treament. I thought this board was for sharing in coping and curing this awful disease.
That's all, I'll be around. Jane

[Myown]

I do hope you share any info you can regarding your holistic treatment. I will be starting tx with the current meds here in US, but if I lived in Italy, I would first try your doctors approach. If there is any info you can post in regard to what he uses for treatment, I would appreciate it.

wish you the best! I'd love to hear more.

[mremeet]

The best thing to make your point is to provide some reputable pulished evidence demonstrating SVR data. Hate to say it, but I've been reading about HCV treatments for the better part of 10 years. I've never seen or personally encountered *anyone* who was "cured" from herbs (and I've taken herbs too, btw). The only people I've seen who've said that, were well meaning, honest people who were referring to people they've "heard of" (and not themselves). The other few I've seen claiming to have a cure were selling the "cure". And invariably had zero evidence that what they were selling works.

Not trying to argue with you, and IFN/riba certainly is no panacea. But it *has* successfully and permanently subdued the virus in 1000's and 1000's of people in the last 10 years or so. Who knows how many of those people have been saved from cirrhosis, end stage liver disease, HCC (cancer) and death? I'm sure it's quite a few. When it comes to HCV the same can't be said about herbs; it simply can't.

Best wishes with your treatment in Italy, keep us posted on your progress.

[SJL]

I am very much interested in what herbs, supplements that you are taking.I have treated twice (112) wks., and have responded, then relapsed. I have been left with mutiple side effects, neurology being the worse presently. I am going to Shands Hospital in Gainesville, FL., on the 28th of this month. Presently, I have seen 14 Specialists, and I am going back to the Neurologist on Tuesday. Every Doctor so far has said that this is a result of the Interferons.
Please keep us posted and if you want you can e-mail me at ***@****
Sandy

[janedoe2]

Please don't confuse herbs with homeopathy, very different.
As I had stated on another thread, my doc is in Italy, my husband is Italian, I have mother in law there that can send meds. I was talking to my husband about this, about this board, and how I could help if possible. Our first question (maybe people here could help with this too) is are there homeopathic drs. in your area? There kinda has to be. Can we get the homeopathic meds here in the US? I am going to look into that when I have time. I will list everything later today or prob tomorrow that I am taking. Remember too that not my doc doesn't give everyone one size fits all meds. He really studied my blood levels, my type, and then he is giving me what he thinks. He has tweeked my meds once or twice. A very good question was asked to me about him, that IF he had cured 30 or 40 people of hep, why hasn't he contacted the new york times, he would get nobel prize etc etc. I am going to ask him that question. Knowing him, I have a feeling what he is going to say. I am not sure he cares about noteriety. Yes he cares about helping people, but you have to understand he IS helping people, in Italy. He does absolutely detest 'our' ways here, ESPECIALLY when it comes to this particular disease, hep c. HE loathes interferon, he hates it when I even bring up the word, he told me last week that even the doctors there in Italy, the good ones he says, are canning interferon altogether, they believe it is very dangerous, and useless. His words. He said he is surprised that our doctors here are so far behind. So as for the Nobel Prize? I don't know. I'll ask him. But putting the Nobel Prize aside I know my viral lode has dropped from 1,050,000 to 119,000, and he said that is exactly what he was expecting for this juncture, and he said just to keep going. In my opinion, we have to remember that the US and the FDA is corrupt in many ways, the US does NOT want hydrolic engines and homeopathic cures. We just don't. It's all about money. I have a difficult time smuggling some of these meds in ! For heaven's sake they have not been FDA approved, and they don't know what some of them are. It's for my own good, like they give a good gd about me. It's all about the FDA and the Federal Reserve my friends, watch Freedom to Faciscm by Aaron Russo if you have not already, and then ask yourself if you really can trust all of this gov's 'studies and research'.
I cried for a month when I found out I had hep C, thought I was going to die, and I had to make a decision on which road to take. After consulting my doctors here, and my doctor there, I chose Dr. Franco in Italy. Do I wake up sometimes with doubts?
Of course I do. But I see here people have gone the magical I don't know how many 10's of thousands of dollars way, the almost can kill you way, and as someone said to me on another thread, they got zip, zero, noda. So I will plug along, and I believe.
Maybe one of my purposes in my life is to be the connector from my guardian angel Dr. Franco in Italy to some people here. I would love nothing more than to bring a cure to even one, let alone many. So until then http://www.newstarget.com/z001951.html
and I will post again the stuff I'm taking. If some here have time, maybe you can find if and where in your area (if you are interested) there are homeopathic drs. and pharmacies? like I said I have not yet done that but am very curious to see what the 'attitudes' are like 'here' with that sector regarding hep c. Take car all.
Ciao for now, Jane.

[Kalio1]

Please, go to www.quackwatch.com and type in the search box "Homeopathy" and read what they have to say.

If your doctor is claiming he has CURED patients of HepC without Interferon/antiviral therapy, I and everyone on this board would know his name because he'd be famous in the Hep C arena. What is his name?  

[janedoe2]

http://www.newstarget.com/z001951.html

Originally published August 19 2004
Homeopathy breakthrough: homeopathic solutions proven to carry memory of water and exhibit biological effects
by Mike Adams

Groundbreaking new research has just been revealed that establishes the validity of homeopathy. It's being called the "holy grail" of homeopathy, and it has been published in the peer reviewed journal Inflammation Research. The study shows that a chemical dissolved in a solution (in such proportions that not even a single molecule of the original chemical could exist in the water) exhibits verifiable, scientifically proven biological effects. What this proves is that homeopathy is real. There's something about the homeopathic water that is different from regular water, and the biological effects are undeniable and easy to verify.
This, of course, is not new information for those who have been practicing homeopathy for many years, or to those who are familiar with holistic medicine, vibrational medicine, or other forms of medicine that go beyond the rather narrow definitions currently defended by conventional medicine. But of course, it is big news to many doctors, physicians, and western medical researchers, who have for decades insisted that homeopathy is quackery and that believing in homeopathy is the same as believing in magic. They say that water could not possibly exhibit a biological effect if it did not contain a single molecule of a biologically active substance. But now, of course, the science is quite real, and this isn't the first study to show that homeopathy is proven.

There have been other studies -- well-documented and well-constructed -- that also show the same effect. But these studies have been routinely ignored, and even shut out by medical journals simply because no one can quite explain how homeopathy works. To understand why this is such an important breakthrough in modern medicine, we have to go back to the 1800's and take a look at the origin of the so-called germ theory and how it relates to the invention of the microscope and the realization that disease could be spread by invisible microscopic creatures.

Today the germ theory is accepted as real and verifiable. But that's only because scientists and doctors can readily see these germs using microscopes. Before microscopes were invented, any doctor who proposed that disease could be caused by a doctor not washing his hands and touching two patients in sequence would have been called a lunatic or a quack. In fact, doctors did not engage in any sort of hand washing for the purpose of preventing the spread of disease until the germ theory became accepted.

The accidental father of the germ theory, a Hungarian physician known as Dr. Semmelweis, was fired and ostracized from the medical community in the mid 1800's for even proposing the idea that disease was caused by invisible, microscopic, undetectable organisms. In fact, after fighting to publicize the truth about microorganisms for fifteen years, Semmelweis was declared insane by doctors and committed to an insane asylum. (Sounds a lot like modern medicine, doesn't it?)

In other words, in the history of medicine, doctors and researchers didn't believe in the germ theory for one simple reason: they couldn't see the germs. There was no way they could detect these germs, so in their minds, they didn't exist. As a result, they continued to practice outdated medical procedures which actually resulted in the spread of germs from one patient to another.

Here's how this applies to homeopathy: today, the scientific evidence proves that homeopathy really works. No sane, rational person could deny it after reviewing the evidence proving the biological activity of homeopathic water. But instead of denying the existence of homeopathy on the grounds that it doesn't work, modern doctors and researchers deny it based on the rather feeble idea that they don't understand the mechanism by which it might work. That is, they don't know how it works, and therefore it must not be true. And that's about as intelligent as saying "We don't know how gravity works, therefore, there is no such thing as gravity."

Granted, homeopathy is somewhat mysterious. It is curious in the way that it works through the use of subtle energies. Apparently, water has a memory, and there's a fantastic book on this called The Memory of Water that will show you in great detail, with colorful pictures, exactly how water is reshaped by different energetic and emotional vibrations.

It's all quite real -- water takes on a different molecular structure when it is prayed over versus when angry people shout at it. Now, if you take a substance like the one used in this study, which was histamine, and you put a drop of histamine in a glass of pure, distilled water, that water, of course, contains a solution of histamine. But if you dilute that by taking one drop out of that entire glass and putting it into another glass of water, then you have another mixture of water that is diluted by a factor of 100 or more. If you do that over and over again and follow a sequence of increasing dilutions, you end up with a solution of water that has no molecules of histamine in it whatsoever.

But, as this study shows, this water retains the memory of histamine, and when this water is given to a biological system, such as a person or an animal, it will produce effects that are attributed to the histamine and that are clinically observable and quite unique to the vibration of histamine.

Of course there are many skeptics out there who will continue to say there is no such thing as homeopathy. They will deny the clinical evidence that's put right in front of their faces, and even if they were to conduct these experiments on their own and produce the exact same verifiable scientifically proven results, they would continue to deny it. Why is that?

It's because they don't understand it, and they don't have the imagination or creativity to suppose that nature might hold some surprises for us yet. They are people who represent the epitome of mankind's arrogance. They think they understand everything there is to know about the way the universe works, and that nature is apparent and nothing new will be learned. They think that if you can't see it, it doesn't exist, and thus I wonder how they even believe in gravity or electromagnetism or quantum physics, for that matter.

Nevertheless, the end result of this is that the amazing James Randi will probably end up being $1 million poorer because he has been so foolish as to offer a $1 million reward to the first person who can prove the scientific validity of homeopathy. Well, apparently this proof has already been completed, and now it will probably be a game of continued denials from James Randi in order to avoid paying out the $1 million reward. He will probably say, "Okay, the lab results look solid, but until you can explain how it works, it's not proven." And that's how he will deny actually paying the claim to people who have now scientifically proven that homeopathy is real -- something Randi adamantly insists is untrue.

By the way, to comment more on good science, kudos go out to the editor of Inflammation Research, a medical journal that has demonstrated the courage to publish a pioneering paper that most other medical journals would have rejected. And this again speaks to the closed-circle, dogmatic attitude of most peer reviewed medical journals. They define the so-called truths of modern science and modern medicine by selecting those studies and papers that support their current beliefs. Simultaneously, they reject all papers that challenge those beliefs, and that's how things that are true but unconventional (such as homeopathy) can be kept out of the minds of modern doctors and researchers.

But this journal, Inflammation Research, was willing to publish a pioneering paper, and at the same time, the researchers involved in this study -- none of which were from the United States, by the way -- are also to be applauded for their willingness to venture beyond the strict confines of conventional medicine and explore the way the universe really works.

Let's face it, folks -- as men and women on this planet, we are but children. We are all students of the universe, just attempting to understand the way things work... and barely scratching the surface in doing so. We know so little about the universe and about the way subtle energies operate. I don't think there's a single person alive today who truly understands the simple interaction of tabletop magnets, for one thing. I don't think there's anyone alive today who understands quantum physics, and who can really explain how it is that the entire universe is made up of probability waves of vibrating energy rather than physical matter.

I don't think there's anyone who can really explain or understand how light can be both a particle and a wave at the same time, depending on how you look at it. I don't think people can explain how properties of spinning subatomic particles can be instantly teleported from one place to another, regardless of the distance, without requiring any time whatsoever. I don't think people can explain how prayer alters the health outcome of patients, even when the patients aren't aware that they are being prayed for. (This is called "non-local medicine.")

These are just some of the many mysteries that continue to present opportunities for open-minded, smart thinkers to explore. Fortunately, there are some scientists who continue to be open-minded, and who are willing to ask these questions of nature, because that's what a true scientist does -- they ask questions of nature and they listen to whatever responses come back.

People like Dr. Stephen Barrett and James Randi are not scientists at all. They are, in every sense, feeble-minded skeptics who probably don't even believe in their own souls. I bet they didn't see this one coming -- homeopathy is real, folks. It's been proven, and it's been proven in a way that meets the most demanding requirements of the scientific method. If you are a true scientist, and you review the available studies on homeopathy, you either have to conclude that homeopathy is real, or you have to conclude that every law of science and truth upon which modern medicine is based is invalid.

http://www.homeopathyworks.com/page.php?xPage=faq_placebo.html

Real Medicine or Placebo?


Last month I wrote about how such small doses can cure. I explained how the medicines become stronger as they are diluted and succussed (vigorously shaken). I gave the latest scientific explanation (enhanced water crystals). This month I want to continue the discussion about the reality of homeopathy.


Not being a trained scientist, but having a curious mind I stumbled into homeopathy out of curiosity. Scientists are supposed to have it, but they are usually trained to be curious within reason -- sounds reasonable until you hit something unreasonable like a medicine being effective even though there are no molecules to do the work.


My first encounter with homeopathy was positive, it seemed to work on my acute back ache . My next encounter with it was with my farm animals - I couldn't afford the veterinarian and medicine bills that can rack up with a farm animal. Enter a thought stage left -- I wondered if homeopathy would work for animals - problem, no books around re homeopathy for animals (This was in1979).


So, armed with curiosity and a book on homeopathy for people (Boericke's Materia Medica) I tried out remedies on the animals using the people symptoms by analogy. The medicines worked. I remember helping animals with itchy skin, abscesses, worms, stalled deliveries, wounds, and more.


Luckily it wasn't until a year later at the National Center for Homeopathy's summer school that I found out about no molecules, etc. Too late, I had seen the medicine work, and believe me the sheep, goats, chickens, dogs, and cats didn't have a clue about the molecules and I never told them. If anyone ever wants to tell you homeopathy is a placebo, or that you have to believe in it, help their dog's arthritis, or get that cat's skin itch under control.


There are many books on treating cats, dogs, cattle, horses, goats, and even pigs -- I have Amish and Mennonite customers whose families have been farmers forever, and they now not only treat themselves, but their farm animals, and they are ready to tell stories of cures at the slightest provocation.


If your skeptic friends don't happen to have an animal to help them with their placebo problem, tell them about homeopathy's value in safely treating babies. There are probably a dozen modern books on pregnancy, childbirth, infants, children under 1 year of age, etc. The authors of the modern books have been successfully treating babies with homeopathy for years (easily a combined 100 years). If they were not helping their patients and/or were doing harm, they would be out of business long ago, and the babies would still be howling.Wrong remedy - Another angle on the question of placebo. When the first homeopathic remedy is given, the expectations of success would logically be at their highest, and thus most vulnerable to the placebo effect. That is, if placeboes were the answer then surely the highest expectations would be on the first dose, and there would be lower expectations on subsequent remedies. But that's simply not the case -- When you hit the right remedy, whether it's the first one or the 10th try, the body starts working to heal as sure as an apple will fall down from a tree not up.

[janedoe2]

Ask yourself what the real agenda is here; who is it exactly that sponsors these mud slinging exercises, which industry is losing money to alternative medicine, and are the media that report it, independent? Ask whether these studies are being funded out of a genuine interest to further understanding of homeopathy for the public's benefit or whether they're disingenuous and sponsored by those with a vested interest. Ask who would benefit from discrediting it, by any means? Then ask yourself whether you want these people to make your mind up for you or whether you're not controlled by others.

[CrazyTrain]

The data you ask for would typically come from a clinical trial of some sort correct ?
Arent most of those trials funded by drug manufacturers ?

Of those that aren't, what percentage do you think are headed by staff with inherent ties to manufacturers.

Next we have the review boards for publication approval, think they have any vested interests with drug manufacturers?

But the manufacturers really only have our best interest at heart so we can all rest easy knowing they're doing whats best for us right ?    

I gave the alternatives a shot at the advise of a friend (didn't even ask to see his labs) and only thing I would change if I had it to do over is I would've started using sooner. Even if it hadn't worked, just making me feel better so quickly was damn refreshing. Plus it was nice to know that what I was gonna take should make me feel better vesus something I'm being warned is gonna make me feel like the walking dead.

I don't think the alternatives are getting the attention they deserve.  

[desrt]

Thank you for the newstarget link in your previous thread. The "groundbreaking new research" in the 2004 article about 'homeopathic water' and 'vibrational therapy' is almost word for word what was offered to me as proof 20 years ago.
I will be first in line to congratulate you when you get your cure.
Take care.

P.S. Why is your doctor so dead set against biopsy? Just curious as to his reasons.

[janedoe2]

nice to see people are THINKING.
There ARE vested interests in our 'traditional treatments'.

And Dr. Franco shakes and yells at me when I bring up biopsy.
I mentioned before that I might 'might' do this behind his back, I don't know yet, I have to see what Mr. USA Hepatolist says on Monday.
Dr. Franco hates biopsy's because he says they are dangerous, and he feels he has me under control without it.

(Can't wait for that congratulation)  :)

[sfbaygirl]

Great post Mre! you have given me lots of food for thought. I tend to be a conspiracy theorist myself sometimes lOL Especially watching 60 minutes. I am sure there are plenty of behind the scenes money schemes regarding drugs. Look at the theft of 8 billion US dollars in Iraq? I would be interested to hear about those AIDS drugs in Africa. I am thinking of donating to charities there...But does this involve the FDA or the drug co's? I tend to agree that you would think drug co's have more interest to fly right when faced with the lawsuits etc. The FDA while not having to worry about lawsuits seems to have to come under scrutiny, since oversight for the FDA is the Govt. Fox watching the chickens? I do think they do a pretty good job of protecting us, I wish they would release more drugs that other countries have that I want to use for Hep C. Of course this is a personal decison that may not be good for me, but the waiting can be brutal. Don't they have drugs they will release when the patient has no other choices?

[orphanedhawk]

My doctor in Bangkok didn't want to do a biopsy either. He felt a sonogram was safer and provided enough information. You might consider getting that instead.
   I've read the book on messages in water, and I feel for anyone who knows how to use photoshop, photos become unconvincing evidence.
   I notice, you have not mentioned exactly what you are buying over the counter.
   A friend of mine had cancer and was convinced that there was stem cell research being done in other countries that could help her.  She went to Mexico and paid several thousand dollars to have sheep stem cells (or say they said) shot into her. She died a few months later.  
   So, although some of us truly are open to other options, we have good reason to be suspicious.

[orphanedhawk]

I am both open to alternative views and skeptical of the pharmaceutical companies. I doubt they want any competition with their big money making pursuits. My herbalist suggested I take zadaxin as an alternate treatment. When I looked on-line I couldn't find any proof anywhere, of it working as a mono-therapy. I decided I didn't want to be a guinea pig.
    A friend saw a heptologist who is researching Hep C. He does not recommend interferon unless there is already signs of cirrhosis. He believes in a few years there will be better, quicker treatment available.
   There are indeed homeopathic as well as integrated care doctors, in the U.S. They are just far fewer than allopathic MD's.

[kittyface]

Hi Jane, I've been searching for alternatives.  I want my homeopathic doc to contact your Italian doc.  Pls send his info to me at hillcountrydweller at yahoo.  Thanks!

Kittyface

[mremeet]

Crazyquote: "The data you ask for would typically come from a clinical trial of some sort correct? Arent most of those trials funded by drug manufacturers?"

Yes, a scientifically controlled clinical trial run by trained and competent scientists. And yes, many, if not most, trials are funded by the drug manufacturer. But the trials must receive FDA approval and are overlooked by the FDA during the trial. The complete methodology and subsequent results of the trial are also published, for ALL to see. Many, many, many drug trials (the vast majority in fact) under FDA supervision have demonstrated that either the drug under test didn't work, and/or that it had harmful side effects and was inappropriate for use/sale (ending its development). These negative results are then widely and regularly published by the government, in medical journals, through the media (tv, newspapers, magazines etc) and now on the internet. The drug companies typically lose billions upon billions of $$$ every year on dead end drugs, which fail during the trial process.

And once in awhile a drug does manage to get through trials, get FDA approved, and then is widely prescribed/used...only later to be accused of causing deaths/illnesses in some people (sometimes legitimately, sometimes not). And then the drug companies are hit with MASSIVE lawsuits, again costing them billions and billions of $$$ in addition to the billions it cost them to develop, test and market the drug in the first place. So even when viewed from a strictly profit motive perspective (with zero regard to ethics), it's not in the best interest for the drug manufacturers to develop, test and sell a "bad" drug. If there was a grand conspiracy between the FDA and drug companies as you claim (of which you have no proof), most if not all of the drugs under test would pass with flying colors, wouldn't they? Remember that the FDA can and is held to account when these approved drugs turn out to be harmful as well. They're supposed to be the watchdogs, and they've come under harsh scrutnity in the past for dropping the ball; they're on the hook too. The FDA has also widely come under criticism because of how long they drag out the testing process of often promising drugs. If they were in the drug companies' pockets, they'd be much faster in approving these drugs, because if they did the sooner the drug companies could make the lovely money.

The grand FDA/drug company conspiracy theory is a common assertion on the internet, but it doesn't hold water and there's no susbtantive proof of it, sorry.

Crazyquote: "But the manufacturers really only have our best interest at heart so we can all rest easy knowing they're doing whats best for us right?"

The drug manufacturers are 'for profit' corporations, and as such they must be monitored, watched and held to proper ethical standards. They must be subjected to governmental regulatory and oversight processes, and to the letter of the law; which they are. And when corruption is uncovered they can and are vigorously prosecuted and held liable to the tune of billions of $$$ every year. That's a constant incentive for them to 'fly right', and for the most part, THEY DO! I for one am thankful to have the US pharmaceutical industry working so hard for us, and for taking so many VERY expensive chances on the development of drugs that never pan out for them (which we never hear about from people like you, incidentally). Without them I'd be DEAD. And so would millions upon millions of other folks all around the world (who receive many of our drugs at drastic reductions in price or for free, by the way).

crazy quote: "I gave the alternatives a shot at the advise of a friend (didn't even ask to see his labs) and only thing I would change if I had it to do over is I would've started using sooner. Even if it hadn't worked, just making me feel better so quickly was damn refreshing. Plus it was nice to know that what I was gonna take should make me feel better vesus something I'm being warned is gonna make me feel like the walking dead."

I'm glad you feel better, I've take herbs that made me feel better in the past too. Right now I'm taking interferon, ribavirin, and I was taking an unapproved research drug a while back. I DON'T feel good now! LOL  But you know what? I just might be feeling better in the future. In fact, I might not only be feeling better, I might actually BE better! Catch my drift?? ;-)

[mremeet]

You might want to re-read desrt's post a little more closely. And be careful with that 'vibrational water' too, by the way.

;-)

[janedoe2]

I have posted what I am taking, on some other thread.
Niceguy was familiar with some of them, I am taking strong doses of homeopathic sulphur scalare progressive, same with the vincetoxicum scalare progressive, and iodum DH4, phosphorus CH 15, hep c lmo 180.
These are not some new fangled meds that are in trials right now, in my doctor's world, in Italy, these homeopathics have been around a long time, and have been proven in my doctors practice. Many other doctors too there by the way, he is by far the only doctor there that is doing this.

[chcnme]

Uh...LMAO! You are not going to believe this, no doubt, but it was a mistake. I've been in and out all day, have had a slow connection speed all day, too, didn't read your note earlier, have been enjoying the x-mas song thread mostly and .....

LMAO I'm still laughing my a** off at Dough!

[pigeonca]

I would happily try alternative therapies if either of these pertained: I had a biopsy and was stage/grade 1 or less, OR I had failed to achieve SVR with SOC, OR I couldn't tolerate SOC.  But I would consider myself negligent if I used alternatives as my only treatment when I had a reasonably decent chance of obtaining SVR using interferon and rivavirin.  

I think alternatives - especially acupuncture and mind/body work, yoga, etc. - are wonderful adjucts to SOC, but from the reading I've done it seems that one has to be very careful with using potent substances while on therapy.  Don't know much about homeopathy exept it doesn't make sense, but some people swear by it.  That's terrific, but please don't use it as your only source of medical help.

[Skepsis]

My nick tells you...

[chcnme]

I found it, and this is what I said in that thread, Jane.  

"I don't have a lot of patience (in fact none) with someone claiming curing HCV with homeopathic meds. Like everyone else has said, it just ain't so. I think it's dangerous to try to lead anyone with Hep C to believe there is a cure with that stuff. Your doctor is a liar. I don't care how miffed he is. Sorry."

I would say it again, too, exactly the way I said it.  But I can see, too, that you might be miffed that I said what I said and that I called you JaneDough.  

[turtle 2]

I just want to throw in my 2 cents worth about homeopathic medicine for HCV.  If a homeopathic treatment can keep the virus at bay and allows the liver to function normally what difference does it make if it never "kills" the virus.  I personally wouldn't care if I had the virus the rest of my life as long as the virus isn't what causes me to die or lessens my quality of life.  
I just received a reply to an email I sent to a physician assistant working with Hep C and liver desease.  One line in it is something new to me and I wonder if anyone else has heard it.  
"Of the people with hep C, 5-20% will develop cirrhosis over an average of 30 years.  Meaning, it takes a long time to get there and some never do."  
From what I've read and understood, here and on the net, I assumed getting cirrhosis from Hep C was inevitable. If only 5-20% of the people with Hep C do progress to cirrhosis why are we all taking the powerful drugs we do.  Wouldn't a biopsy to determine the extent of damage and if not sever, go with a homeopathic approach or milder medicines without the sides make more since?

[janedoe2]

I'm not miffed, not at all, no problem, you seem like a great guy, chivalrous even in that 'situation'.
I'll just keep posting my personal situation here, like everyone else is doing, and we'll see how this goes.
And yea, the Jane Dough thing did get me going :), but it got me going on this thread today which got me to find some other good info so it was a good thing.
Take care, Jane.

[CrazyTrain]

You make a very covincing argument, I was only trying to point out some areas in the "system" which  are subject to personal bias.

Glad to see you didn't take it personal.

[chcnme]

Jane, OMG (you got me)  laughing hard here.  I am a WOMAN - LMAO!  

Take care :)   Wishing you the best.

[Myown]

http://www.pos4pos.org/croi2005/hep2-05.htm

Jane, i do believe in homeopathic,and know some day there will be more 'natural cures' for alot of diseases, but after reading page 5 of this (maybe off on exactly what pg) I want this virus out of me now and real fast.

chcnme,,you made me laugh before in one of the posts saying something about the virus crossing your blood brain barrier. I cracked up laughing when I read that,,,but then as I was searching the net, came across this interview with Dr.D and others, and on pag 5 or so at the bottom Dr. D mentions blood brain barrier. Scared me! Yikes! Your joke might be reality.

Some may find it an interesting read,I did, skimmed, but will read it when time allows. Includes Hiv and hep b in the interview also.

[Kalio1]

I just hope you get the biopsy so you can know where you stand with the disease.

If you are in Italy, you could get a Fibroscan (noninvasive biopsy) I believe they are available in Europe. Is your doctor opposed to that? Im a bit suspicious as to why he hasn't recommended a biopsy but with Fibroscan available there, I wonder why he hasn't recommend one? It's noninvasive.

[janedoe2]

I'm live in the US, AZ, and he is going to see my Ultra Sound results next week and we are going from there. I see hepatologist here in US on Monday.

[Kalio1]

Good to hear you are seeing a Heptologist. Keep in mind an ultrasound can not "see" fibrosis unless it is already severe. It can only "see" masses or tumors and fatty liver infiltration. It is not the right test to determine liver fibrosis.

[janedoe2]

yes I do know that the ultra sounds are kinda useless in detecting fibrosis.
that is why I 'may' sneak behind my Doc's back and do a biopsy.
I am just torn there. (God, really no pun intended).
I will decide after I see my hep doc here. I'm thinking he is going to say absolutely get a biopsy??

[chcnme]

Hey! :) I remember ... I guess it was about 7 years ago it all began -- thinking I had MS or Lou Gehrigs (had uncle who died of ALS)  So I was wondering if I had it, or if I had Lyme disease.  I was having weird symptoms (dizziness, tingling sensation in my extremities, numbness in them, not the carpal tunnel kind,  apathy, depression, brain fog?? wasnt' the word for it).  I was under the care of psychiatrist being treated for depression, and I kept telling that doctor "this is not depression - this is something more serious".   I kept telling her I felt like I couldn't think like I used to, or that I wasn't reacting like I used to -- as if some "synapse" was missing or some neuron wasn't receiving the message.  It was really scary  (and depressing). I was actually relieved when they diagnosed me Hep C.  But now?  Well, now I REALLY wonder if HCV can indeed cross that blood brain barrier, and I'm almost convinced that one day they are going to isolate it in brain tissue.  Scary huh?  And get this -- lol - I had nightmares last night so bad (never remember my dreams; never have nightmares).  I woke up shaking, heart racing and couldn't believe what I had just dreamed and that I was picking the same nightmare right back up!   I would wake up and sit up and think "is this happening because HCV is in my brain and replicating"  (LMAO)  It was probably happening because I had read that article :)

Really not funny,  but .. gotta laugh.

[Kalio1]

Not necessarily. Where I treat last year they were recommending all geno 1 biopsy due to their less than ideal chances of tx working to help make the tx decision.

Geno 2 and 3 were all advised to treat regardless of liver condition and without a biopsy due to their increased chance of clearing in comparison to geno 1. I did not qualify for a biopsy regardless of geno due to my low platelet count.

Attitudes and protocols change rapidly in this illness. I started treating almost a year and a half ago, at that time your first PCR was recommended at 12 weeks, now it is 4 weeks.
His attitude on geno 2 and 3 getting a pretx biopsy has also changed, he now recommends them for all diagnosed regardless of geno. Rapidly changing best describes HCV tx protocol.

The more info. you can get your hands on regarding liver condition the better particularly in light of the results from the HALTC study (large study) showing increased fibrosis reducing your chances of clearing, the more severe the damage is the less chance you have of beating it. Clearly indicating that you are best off trying to eradicate it PRIOR to damage occuring. Best of luck with the new doctor, hope you get all your questions answered. Make a list!

[spacecst]

Your here to help us! I don't need to worry any more!

[janedoe2]

that is not neccessarily true, you are not on my who's been good list.

[Skepsis]

Hi, chcnme!

Very much the same experiences over the years and decades - even in my childhood had I some weird periodic lows, for 40 years.

That is the number 1. life quality issue with me, along with digestive stress.

I could feel it, depression is not the word for it, it is a very definitive experience being poisoned by something very real toxic substance. You can feel it penetrating your brain and than clearing it again after hours or days.

Trying antidepressants (SSRIs) were a severe long-lasting torture only, did no good at all.

Skepsis

[cuteus]

ok, since you are positively sure that your dr has cured hep c with homeopathy that means to me that he showed you viral load tests from his patients (actual copies of lab results not his words) before and after his tx.  that would be good proof if we can also determine that he absolutely did not use anything else on his patients or that his pts did not go behind his back and took SOC in addition to homeopathy.  After he showed you for sure that the above things happened, I am sure he has a good reason for not telling the world and helping even more people, not just win the nobel prize.  After all, his a real philantropist and is doing all this completely free, right?  I am glad you have absolute proof, and are totally convinced so that you can convince all of us closed minded folks!  Like I said, we had a member try alternative tx and laugh at us for doing SOC instead of her cure.  She was brave enough to come back and admit that she was wrong, and that tx did nothing for her hep c.  How long is your dr going to treat you for free? 3 yrs? 2 months?  
will you be mentioning your hepatologist your present regimen?  I REALLY hope that you get cured, but when you don't, will you be brave enough to come back and tell us? Please?  
We had a member from aussieland who tried colloidal silver for a yr and we goofed him for it, he finally admited defeat and did SOC, he is now SVR.  
Just let us know and keep us posted.  I will be the first to say sorry, but there has to be unbiased proof of SVR.

That italian dr must be a real charmer to have convinced you so well, without documentation, that he is a healer of hep c. would like to meet him someday..
take care

[spacecst]

That's bad cause, I so want to be on your list! I must work harder to impress you! Maybe you can help me with my problems, or maybe I should say one major problem! Or just maybe a "lack of" problem!

[janedoe2]

first of all, Dr. Franco is treating me for 'free' because he has been my husbands doctors family for decades, and I am here in the US, so correct, I am not sending him money.
Sorry but that is just a fact. His patients normally pay him.
And as a matter of fact, I have seen patients blood tests that he cleared, he offered this to me when I was there last time, because he knows I was scared, doubtful, etc.
And no, I know the patients did not use another treatment behind his back, and no he is not lying to me, and charming me?
Christ this wonderful man has known my husband almost his whole life. I understand the sceptisicm, I do, but the combativeness? Strange. Anyway, IF this treatment doesn't work, I have already of course decided a while back that I would have to do the interferon. I don't have a pride thing going here, like I would be losing a bet, this isn't a bet, this is something OTHER THAN INTERFERON and I believe I have a good chance with it.

[AMAZED]

Having a biopsy would do nothing more than to give creedance/credibility to not only you and your Dr in Italy that, yes, your homepathic "drugs" do indeed work, but would certain carrying alot more weight and consideration for those of us here.  As a flight attendant, I would even take the time to go and try to visit this Dr.  So.......go........get a biopsy done and THEN come back here to encourage this program that you are advocating.  Prove this method.....

[chcnme]

Hi Skepsis, nice to meet you.  It was a very strange trip to diagnosis.  I realize there are things depression can do that make us feel some of the same things I was feeling, but I knew depression alone wasn't to blame.  I knew it in my heart, in every fiber of my being - I knew something was wrong.  That's why diagnosis was actually a relief.  I can't take SSRI's.  Doc told me to never take SSRIs again.  I told her DONT WORRY DOC!!  Those things had me buzzing (literally) all over in a few days, and then -- the buzzing would not go away.  It was the worse sensation I had ever had.  I had heard patients complain, and I had not really believed them or believed the severity of their complaints.  I do now.  I'll never take another AntiD, no matter what.  Give me Valium, Xanax, Ativan, maybe a joint or two, some dilaudid would be nice (just kidding) a few bottles of vodka, too, and I ought to be just fine.  I'm teasing, OK?  I do take Valium for an anxiety disorder / panic disorder (been on V's for 3 years with good results in the panic department)  but I only take it about every 4th day because ... well, I know me.  

Uh... I think this is about the 4th day :)  

[janedoe2]

I am prone to having the biopsy, and I am hoping to 'prove' my dr. right, I am in the middle of it right now.
IF this works, I will tell my Dr. Franco that he should expect other patients from me. Your situation would be perfect being a flight attendant.

[ladybug52]

Quick homeopathic comment turned into nearly max space reached comment, huh? I think most people are trying to help save your life by convincing you to go with the SOC. I just want you to get well, however you get it done.

Amerboi:
Where have you been??? I posted a comment the other day re: those who had stopped posting and I mentioned you.  How are you feeling and what are you doing? I started tx yesterday. I had so much encouragement from others here, I decided to just do it and get over it.
Hugs
Bug

[cuteus]

I am most interested in the tests he showed you, were they PCRs?  he showed you both the test with a viral count and the one without viral count at least 6 months after the person stopped tx?  How sensitive was the PCR?  
You might not remember the details, but it might help make the case believable.
BTW, combativeness from someone that is calling members closed minded?

[Kalio1]

Jane, I hope you know where I am "coming from" is the perspective that I too have this disease so automatically we are kindred spirits, all of us. (even the mean ones) I face this everyday and know the fear it ignites in our souls. I respect your right to do what you feel is right. If you need to do this, and you have the time(meaning you are not already dealing with a substantially damaged liver) it is a slow moving virus, many people have lots of wiggle room. I don't, the "silent killer" moniker fits in my case, by the time I was diagnosed I was stage 3, so my perspective is skewed by my reality. I have no time to devote to "alternatives" I need to take the proven path.
Blood tests don't prove anything unless they are the latest, state of the art PCR DNA tests showing the patient has cleared the virus. If he is willing to give you hard copy evidence of that get it because that is your proof. If he is offering you hard copy proof, take it.
The only known way to eradicate this virus, other than the 15-20% of lucky folks that clear it on their own, is with Interferon/Ribivirin. Hopefully the newer drugs in trials now will help more people to that end, but as of today, there is only SOC.

My only issue with "homeopathy" is you are taking these drugs/substances that have not been properly scientifically investigated. You have no idea if they can actually exacerbate your disease. That is my problem with Homeopathy. It is utterly unproven and pushed to people who are sick as your doctor is doing, by saying he can "cure" you. Most doctors NEVER claim they can cure you of anything, or say "chances are good" but they across the board avoid making promises that might not pan out. So that makes me suspicious. At least the herbal people admit they can't cure HCV and there is some hard evidence some supplements can help to reduce inflammation or minimize symptoms. The basic philosophy of "Homeopathy" is sheer bogus science. Vibrational water?? Homeopathy is what people did BEFORE the advent of modern medicine. Why go backwards? Please do read the info I posted to you earlier at Quackwatch.I am against anyone offering false hope to a sick person suffering from any disease.

As many have told you IF it was true, he would be heralded by the masses a la Jonas Salk. Millions of people suffer from HCV worldwide.It would be cruel and selfish NOT to share the "cure" with the world! It is killing people, anyone with a CURE has a duty to share it I think. It is the number one reason for liver transplantation in the US AND Europe.
Many don't even have access to the current meds, so this gives rise to the "alternative" folks. Alternative to what, real medicine? Real science? I always wonder what they mean by "alternative" every person I know who used an "alternative" method to treat their cancer is dead. Could be "modern medicine" would have garnered the same result, but thosse I know who had cancer and used nonalternative methods are alive (except one)
Believe you me if this Dr. Franco DID have the "cure" and proof of such we'd all be on the Dr. Franco HCV cure instead of struggling through this brutal treatment. I am as openminded as they come, I just don't want to die from this or waste time and/or money taking treatments that could possibly harm me or do nothing and at stage 3, I have no time for false hope.

There are scores of doctors who claim to have the "cure" but somehow just can't come up with the hard evidence to prove it so if your Dr. Franco has offered you proof, by all means tell him you would like him to fax it to you. I am sure the new Heptologist you are seeing would be very interested in seeing that and so would all of us.

Please let us know how it goes with the Hep doc and what he says. If you get some evidence from Dr. Franco, share it!

[orphanedhawk]

Thanks for sending me the info. on what you're taking. I don't have the patience to read everything on the threads.
   I think, when it comes down to it, we all need to do what we feel is the right thing. So if something is telling you to get a biopsy, do it! You know, you don't have to tell your Italian doctor, or you can tell him, that ultimately, its your body and your choice.  He can forgive you since you are just an American and not lucky enough to be Italian.
  Personally, I take a lot of supplements, meditate, and just started interferon.
    Good luck with your treatment. Keep us posted on how it works.  
  Arizona around Xmas, smells like tamale time to me!
      Feliz Navidad

[janedoe2]

I undestand your situation, I really do.
I have no idea how much 'time' I have right now myself.
So, I am going to see the hep doc monday, I am probably going to have a biopsy ASAP, and then I am going to decide from there.
I will try my hardest to get blood test proof from other patients of Dr. Franco's. I appreciate your post, and other's here, and I wasn't trying to be nasty with the closed minded remark, it's just 'some' of the people here are kinda nasty about this stuff (not all for sure) and let's face it, closed minded ! I understand the position some are in here, and it just might be me too, I'm just trying to help myself, and who knows, maybe also help others.
I'll post again on Tuesday after I get back from CA, that is where my Hep doc is.
ciao for now, Jane.

[Kalio1]

I'm wondering if you mind giving your views on Homeopathy?