Aa
High tumor marker
Hello, I am new to the forum; my husband was diagnosed with Hep C several years ago. He had some lab work done last week and his AFP is 8 (normal 0-6) and his GGT was 220 (normal 0-65)
Are these levels common for Hep C?
Are these levels common for Hep C?
I have mentioned in previous posts that the spots might be spider nevi and you should have a docter make that determination.
Definition
Spider Angioma is a skin condition and a form of telangiectasis - a lesion produced by telangiectasia (a vascular lesion formed by the dilation of a group of small blood vessels) which may be present as a coarse or fine, red line, or as a punctum (point or small spot) with radiating limbs (spider). This is also called spider nevus.
Description
It is characterized by a central and elevated red dot, about the size of a pinhead, from which small blood vessels radiate (looking like a spider), spider angiomas are often associated with high estrogen levels as occur in pregnancy or when the liver is diseased and unable to detoxify estrogens.
Symptoms
Spider angiomas are painless, and those who have them generally experience no symptoms.
Diagnosis
Small numbers of spider nevi are common in children and pregnant women. However, in large quantities, spider nevi may be a sign of an underlying disorder, such as advanced cirrhosis of the liver. Lesions resembling multiple spider nevi (but without the "spider legs") may be a sign of hereditary hemorrhagic telangiectasia, a disorder of the blood vessels that causes bleeding and iron-deficiency anemia.
Definition
Spider Angioma is a skin condition and a form of telangiectasis - a lesion produced by telangiectasia (a vascular lesion formed by the dilation of a group of small blood vessels) which may be present as a coarse or fine, red line, or as a punctum (point or small spot) with radiating limbs (spider). This is also called spider nevus.
Description
It is characterized by a central and elevated red dot, about the size of a pinhead, from which small blood vessels radiate (looking like a spider), spider angiomas are often associated with high estrogen levels as occur in pregnancy or when the liver is diseased and unable to detoxify estrogens.
Symptoms
Spider angiomas are painless, and those who have them generally experience no symptoms.
Diagnosis
Small numbers of spider nevi are common in children and pregnant women. However, in large quantities, spider nevi may be a sign of an underlying disorder, such as advanced cirrhosis of the liver. Lesions resembling multiple spider nevi (but without the "spider legs") may be a sign of hereditary hemorrhagic telangiectasia, a disorder of the blood vessels that causes bleeding and iron-deficiency anemia.
No itching...just the splotches. There was just one about the size of a silver dollar, now there are about 5...sized vary. All of them are on his upper arm.
He has some memory problems, but I don't know if it is because of the liver or booze.
Wanda
He has some memory problems, but I don't know if it is because of the liver or booze.
Wanda
It sounds like you might be describing spider nevi. You need a Hepatologist to see him as soon as possible.
Thank all of you for the input. I am going to call our GP and request she order a CT, then take it from there.
Acities...I don't know if he has that or a beer gut. He is 6ft 5in with a pooch gut. He had an 8 lb difference in weight since February, and the doc ask him if it was intentional, he told her he can weigh 217 one day and 2 days later weight 5 to 10 lbs more. That tells me fluid.
Red splotches on his arms...he has these quarter to silver dollar size red splotches on his arms. They look like he has been sun burnt in a shirt with holes in it, and they don't go away. I do not see the red dot in the center of them that indicate spiders, but I do see tiny broken vessels on his chest that just look like little squiggles. Not a bunch of them, but they are there.
As I guess you can tell I am getting a little ancy, and I am really unsure what to do. His mother died in Dec. of Colon cancer...she was my best bet to get him to do something he didn't want to, and address his health.
Thanks again
Wanda
Acities...I don't know if he has that or a beer gut. He is 6ft 5in with a pooch gut. He had an 8 lb difference in weight since February, and the doc ask him if it was intentional, he told her he can weigh 217 one day and 2 days later weight 5 to 10 lbs more. That tells me fluid.
Red splotches on his arms...he has these quarter to silver dollar size red splotches on his arms. They look like he has been sun burnt in a shirt with holes in it, and they don't go away. I do not see the red dot in the center of them that indicate spiders, but I do see tiny broken vessels on his chest that just look like little squiggles. Not a bunch of them, but they are there.
As I guess you can tell I am getting a little ancy, and I am really unsure what to do. His mother died in Dec. of Colon cancer...she was my best bet to get him to do something he didn't want to, and address his health.
Thanks again
Wanda
Hi. I'm sure you know all this...
So your husband was stage 3 with bridging fibrosis 7 years ago. Unfortunately he is probably somewhere between 3 and 4 or at stage 4 (cirrhosis). You might want to get a new biopsy to see exactly where things stand. Blood work many times will tell you little about the liver until it is very far advanced. (Until a year ago all my blood test were normal until I found out I had cirrhosis) His drinking will have sped up his liver disease and will continue to do so. Alcohol and HCV are probably both having an impact on his liver. HCV causes liver damage over decades and Alcohol in what he is drinking also causes damage. It doesn’t matter if he drinks the “hard stuff” or mixes it with a protein drink with vitamins I’m afraid. All the liver sees is the alcohol, not what form it was digested in.
The sad news for you is that if he does have cirrhosis his chances of clearing the virus are about 10% vs. maybe 45% before reaching stage 4. And as his cirrhosis progresses to decompendated cirrhosis he will be unable to be treated because his liver will be to weak to handle the meds. That is why there is the saying in the HCV community “The earlier you treat the better chance of success”. Doubly true when approaching stage 4. Once you reach cirrhosis the chances of clearing the virus falls drastically.
Asymptomatic? Yes I know only too well. So was I until a year ago when I needed a kidney stone procedure and saw that my platelets were down to about 70,000! I feel fine having cirrhosis. In fact probably never felt better in my life at 55. I couldn’t tell I had an enlarged spleen or varices either. I can’t see them. They are inside my body. It’s like the guy who thinks he is in perfect health. Then one day he drops dead from a heart attack. Well over decades his arteries had been getting narrower and narrower but he couldn’t see it or feel it… until it is too late. This happens every day. It is not uncommon with heat disease or liver disease.
“He read somewhere that as long as his bilirubin is good he's ok”. Do you know when bilirubin starts to rise from chronic Hep C and alcoholism? When he advances to Decompensated Cirrhosis. The final stage. At that point his only chance to stay alive for long will be a liver transplant. And he won’t get a transplant if he is drinking. There are too many people waiting for livers who will do anything to stay alive even stop drinking. Just Google “decompensated cisshosis” or “End Stage Liver Disease” and you will see what the progression of this disease is like.
I am sorry you are in this situation. I would suggest preparing yourself and taking care of yourself as much as possible for what might be in store. Unfortunately you have no control over what may happen.
I wish you all the best.
Hector
So your husband was stage 3 with bridging fibrosis 7 years ago. Unfortunately he is probably somewhere between 3 and 4 or at stage 4 (cirrhosis). You might want to get a new biopsy to see exactly where things stand. Blood work many times will tell you little about the liver until it is very far advanced. (Until a year ago all my blood test were normal until I found out I had cirrhosis) His drinking will have sped up his liver disease and will continue to do so. Alcohol and HCV are probably both having an impact on his liver. HCV causes liver damage over decades and Alcohol in what he is drinking also causes damage. It doesn’t matter if he drinks the “hard stuff” or mixes it with a protein drink with vitamins I’m afraid. All the liver sees is the alcohol, not what form it was digested in.
The sad news for you is that if he does have cirrhosis his chances of clearing the virus are about 10% vs. maybe 45% before reaching stage 4. And as his cirrhosis progresses to decompendated cirrhosis he will be unable to be treated because his liver will be to weak to handle the meds. That is why there is the saying in the HCV community “The earlier you treat the better chance of success”. Doubly true when approaching stage 4. Once you reach cirrhosis the chances of clearing the virus falls drastically.
Asymptomatic? Yes I know only too well. So was I until a year ago when I needed a kidney stone procedure and saw that my platelets were down to about 70,000! I feel fine having cirrhosis. In fact probably never felt better in my life at 55. I couldn’t tell I had an enlarged spleen or varices either. I can’t see them. They are inside my body. It’s like the guy who thinks he is in perfect health. Then one day he drops dead from a heart attack. Well over decades his arteries had been getting narrower and narrower but he couldn’t see it or feel it… until it is too late. This happens every day. It is not uncommon with heat disease or liver disease.
“He read somewhere that as long as his bilirubin is good he's ok”. Do you know when bilirubin starts to rise from chronic Hep C and alcoholism? When he advances to Decompensated Cirrhosis. The final stage. At that point his only chance to stay alive for long will be a liver transplant. And he won’t get a transplant if he is drinking. There are too many people waiting for livers who will do anything to stay alive even stop drinking. Just Google “decompensated cisshosis” or “End Stage Liver Disease” and you will see what the progression of this disease is like.
I am sorry you are in this situation. I would suggest preparing yourself and taking care of yourself as much as possible for what might be in store. Unfortunately you have no control over what may happen.
I wish you all the best.
Hector
Your husband shouldn't drink AT ALL in my opinion.
I do know that it is not uncommon at all for AFP to be elevated with HCV. I think that cirrhosis also causes elevation in AFP. Typically, with an HCC tumor, it will elevate more than a little and will continue to rise. AFP elevation, especially if it is mild as his is, is not sufficient to assume HCC (hepatocell carcinoma). If your doctor suspects HCC, I believe the next step would be ultrasound, CT scan, and/or MRI to find and evaluate any tumor. If found, the gold standard is a tissue biopsy of the tumor, if one can be obtained. My AFP was 50 with a tumor found on CT scan, but there turned out to be no malignancy. I understand that this is not that uncommon with HCV and cirrhosis.
I don't know ... but I am dead serious about the alcohol taboo. It is a lethal mix. I hope he can find a healthier alternative. I watch a lot of Monty Python. It kind of has the same effect on me. :)
Good luck,
Brent
I do know that it is not uncommon at all for AFP to be elevated with HCV. I think that cirrhosis also causes elevation in AFP. Typically, with an HCC tumor, it will elevate more than a little and will continue to rise. AFP elevation, especially if it is mild as his is, is not sufficient to assume HCC (hepatocell carcinoma). If your doctor suspects HCC, I believe the next step would be ultrasound, CT scan, and/or MRI to find and evaluate any tumor. If found, the gold standard is a tissue biopsy of the tumor, if one can be obtained. My AFP was 50 with a tumor found on CT scan, but there turned out to be no malignancy. I understand that this is not that uncommon with HCV and cirrhosis.
I don't know ... but I am dead serious about the alcohol taboo. It is a lethal mix. I hope he can find a healthier alternative. I watch a lot of Monty Python. It kind of has the same effect on me. :)
Good luck,
Brent
Unfortunately, any alcohol with hep c just accelerates the cirrhosis process...How are his other liver enzymes? The fatigue is the mouse under the carpet...It is a surface sign...The jaundice doesn't usually show up until the liver is in distress (acute bilirubin level)...Usually esophageal varicies (an engorged vein in the esophagus that can rupture easily and cause life threatening bleeding) and acities (collection of fluid in the belly) occur before then...If you Google Hep Central, you will find more information regarding when damage happens ...I empathize with your position... Good luck... Melinda
We do not know where he is as far as advancement with the disease.7 years ago he had a biopsy and they said he had bridging fibrosis. At the time that wasn't bad, but now I am reading they consider it much worse than they use to. After diagnosis about 8 years ago, do to his genotype, and its cure rate at the time... he decided against treatment, and has just been getting yearly blood work. He is asymptomatic, with the exception of some fatigue. The main problem is he still drinks. He just quit drinking the hard stuff and started drinking beer. I am concerned, but he is very hard headed. He read somewhere that as long as his bilirubin is good he's ok, and I can't seem to get him past that.
Any suggestions or links would be greatly appreciated.
Any suggestions or links would be greatly appreciated.
Welcome. Thanks for your question.
Does your husband have stage 4, cirrhosis? No. Than no worries.
HCC usually only occur in patients with cirrhosis. So if he isn't stage 4. No worries. Cirrhotics get a scan every 6 months. HCC rates are about 4% per year.
The CT scan is the true test to look for HCC. AFP is only "a marker" is is not diagnostic of liver cancer. Fast rising AFP or levels of 500 usually indicate HCC.
All the best!
Hector
Does your husband have stage 4, cirrhosis? No. Than no worries.
HCC usually only occur in patients with cirrhosis. So if he isn't stage 4. No worries. Cirrhotics get a scan every 6 months. HCC rates are about 4% per year.
The CT scan is the true test to look for HCC. AFP is only "a marker" is is not diagnostic of liver cancer. Fast rising AFP or levels of 500 usually indicate HCC.
All the best!
Hector
Your husband's doc will probably order a liver CT based on the AFP. Heppers are notorious for running higher AFP's and more often than not things are just fine. My AFP runs high all the time. I have had 2 CT's and everything is just fine. So do what your doc recommends and try not to stress too much over it.
Mouse
Mouse
I think a GGT of 220 is common for people with HCV. It can also be caused by fatty liver or too much alcohol before the test. You should talk to your doctor about the AFP and see if the doc wants further tests. I believe that a carcinoma will produce a much higher level than that, but I am not a doctor and only a doctor should make that decision.
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