Jail

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/10/081020150617.htm

[Marcia2202]

Interesting...

I personally think they should provide treatment for everyone...

[Rockerforlife]

Not only should they provide tx for all....they should make it more aware to the public about this disease....as i type this someone is getting a fresh helping of hep c ...most people dont even know what hep c does or even is....its a crying shame how our greedy planet works....they proberly wont inform the public about it because it cost money to do so...and there trying to ban health products here in America...?...Again the almighty $$$$ wins

[danceswithbirdies]

maybe the taxpayers of Canada and Denmark can pay for this

[Rockerforlife]

how bout the drug companies....oh...i forgot...they have no money....or drugs


why not the taxpayers of all countries?

are trying to be funny?

[Deb_c430]

decrease suffering yes, no one should suffer, but i would rather help folks in the world, sorry.  Who have not raped someone, stole from someone, when they get out show they are members of society ok,  

Also the needles, WOW what a mess, then there is riba rage!  Prison Officers would love it!    Who is going to control all this? Sorry your spending my money pretty freely, Alleviate suffering, pain, definately,    

Again sorry, visit what ever.

[Marcia2202]

It looks like I might have not made myself clear enough. I didn't mean that ppl in jail should have their treatment paid for and people not in jail would need to pay for their own health care. That would be totally stupid and unfair. I meant that everyone should be able to treat for free... Meaning that there should be good health care systems in every country in the world. So everyone would be able to have their health taken care of.

Maybe if governments in general would cut down on spending money on certain things, which I don't want to get into now, as I don't want to go into political discussions, it would be possible establish free health care for it's citizens.

It would be a bit weird if I should pay for peoples health care in the US in order for US residents to get free health care.... I already pay 60% income taxes in Denmark, where I currently live... Yes, the taxes I pay are high, but I don't mind paying more than lower income ppl, if not the whole system wouldn't be working. The system they use here makes it possible for everyone to get free health care. Even if a tourist falls ill on their visit to Denmark, they get admitted to hospital and treated for free.

[fretboard]

Although I agree that all prisoners should receive tx, how would that be regulated?  Would it just be available for level 1 or 2 prisoners serving 5yrs and above or everyone who enters the prison system?  How about all the prisoners who are at fire camps here and in other states as well.  There's a California class action lawsuit pending as it was filed last July.  Just for the sake of not denying all who are in prison from getting tx.  They could allow any prisoner who currently has insurance coverage get tx’ed.  I know some ppl are thinking that’s nuts, but not really.  There are many prisoners who currently are on disability for whatever reason and they get arrested.  If they have Medi-Cal or Medi-Care and they’re HepC positive, then that could be the beginning guideline.  Their disability payments would stop, but their medical insurance would continue and pay for their tx in prison.  Also, there are prisoners who have parents who are wealthy who could foot the bill for them.  Another thing to do is not tx, but give them an amount of fluvastatin that will keep the viral replication at bay.  At least if they had that going on nobody could say that they weren’t getting tx'ed.  They’re just not getting the cure.  It will work till they can look at the larger picture.  God Bless

[ladybug52]

I really admire how you conduct yourself when you respond to people.
I wonder, if polled, how many prisoners would want to be treated for hep c. It's not an easy tx and personally, I don't think I'd want to do it inside a jail cell.
Luckily, I don't have to decide.
I agreee, everyone should treat for free, but since that isn't happening here, I don't think the prisoners should have easier access than anyone else who's not insured.
Our system leaves so many people without health care, it's depressing.
Take care,
Bug

[Mary4now]

Wow, doesn't it make sense that the more people that treat the less this disease will spread, Maybe even provide more iformation regarding this disease. I like Obama's stance that health care is a right and it shouldnt matter if you have a pre existing condition.  By excluding anyone from health care we are part of the problem.  I personally think its disgusting for anyone to not have access to health care.   Can you imagine how access to health care might even relieve the stigma attached to certain diseases?  I know thats a stretch.  I certainly would feel less stigmatized if I felt I had the "right" of health care.

[Marcia2202]

Thank you for your kind words.

To all
I believe that noone should have easier access, than others. Why should honest, hard working taxpayers suffer and highly profile criminals get it for free. I think that the whole discussion about ppl in prison is very complex. Some ppl commit horrifying crimes, others something not so bad, some get arrested for drug use, some do a crime accidentally, like not seeing someone crossing the road and hitting them with their car. (beware driving on tx) Others are in jail, innocent, wrongly convicted... And then the ppl who go to wars, come back, don't get the proper follow up and end up flipping out hurting someone, etc, etc, etc.  We simply do not know why people are in jail. And there is a big problem of the disease being faster spread in jails, so there will be more infected ppl in jail and out of jail.

The bottom line for me personally is that I do not feel it is my place to judge who is worthy of tx and who not.

Me too, I wouldn't want to do this tx anywhere else than my own home, but if my home was 10 years in jail, I might want to come out of there healthy and start life afresh, after having paid my dues. I think, haven't been in the situation, so I wouldn't know.

I just wanted to add that I am not criticizing anyone who does not think alike me, each theirs... So I apologize before hand, if I stepped on any ones toes. I just tend to feel that we all should have equal chances in life.

Marcia

[Rockerforlife]

how bout the convict who goes in clean and has to live with a jail full of hep c patients...he maybe wrongly convicted and it does happen all the time...to me prision is a breeding ground for diseases...what a f.uckn world

[jdwithhcv]

We simply do not know why people are in jail.
--------------------------------------------------
I respectfully beg to differ.  We DO know why people are in jail.  They are in jail because they have been convicted of crimes.  And to recieve a prison sentence in the USA you must have quite a long criminal record.  First time offenders and many repeat offenders receive probation and/or plea bargain their charges down on very favorable terms - at least that was the case when I worked as a prosecutor in Manhattan.

I do not believe anybody should languish in jail without medical treatment, but if "they" are going to treat everyone (whoever "they" are) lets start with those hard-working, law abiding people who have no medical coverage.  These are difficult economic times and the taxpayers are overburdened already.  There is no easy answer to any of this, sad to say.

BTW Rocker - what is the basis for your assertion that people are wrongly convicted all the time?  That has not been my experience - maybe you mean this happens all the time in Canada?

jd

[bajawoman]

Doesn't the US have more prisons than any other country in the world  Prisoners work for their stay and money is made as in any business and Prisons are big business

since it is such a high risk living condition for being infected as it must be and the prisoners when released infecting others seems to reason a good study group

why not especially with trials of new drugs what better place than a prison in a controlled environment Especially with death row convicts they could be used for medical studies with their permission I would think they would want to maybe not
  
I am not trying to exlcude the rights to trial from any person but just a thought

[Rockerforlife]

YOU SAID:what is the basis for your assertion that people are wrongly convicted all the time?  

Dont you have newspapers or dont you watch the news on tv?

you cannot say this does not happen....ive seen lots of cases

[jdwithhcv]

You set up a straw man and then knock him down - typical of those who cannot back their assertions with facts.  I read news, watch the news and have worked in law enforcement.  Please cite some of these "lots of cases"

[jdwithhcv]

Drug trials in prison would be interesting.  However, I think risk managers for pharma companies would hesitate to go this route because of the risk of lawsuits - this could raise constitutional issues among those who view such programs as "medical experiments" on prisoners.

How are things in beautiful Baja?  I was in San Jose del Cabo for a few weeks recently - what a lovely place!

jd

[Deb_c430]

They tried drugs trials in prisons before,  they were accused of inhuman conditions.
I think it could be a bad idea.
There is also the point that California does have more prisons than any other state I believe. A very large % of prisoners, are illegal immigrants, Who commited crimes here. Prison is not a wonderful movie of people who are there wrongly. These people are viscious.   they have been convicted, The % of people being there falsly is very small.

Do you have any idea what all those syringes in a prison systom would cause?   The rage that alreadys exists?  I say give them comfort if in pain, do NOT be inhumane, but also I do not think the money I have earned and worked for nor my husband, should pay for this.  

The gangs? Aryan brotherhod, crypts, bloods,   No cal vs So Cal vs south american?  

Denmark has tight immigration laws, which I admire very much, they are also a protected society. a very good economy,    but they are no where even close to the population of the USA.    

Again no one should suffer, but also the cost would bankrupt our states,  our govt,  Cause a huge mess.

[bajawoman]

just did a little internet research and came up with this statistic which is old and just a tickle of what the whole article said  but it is interesting I did not realize how the prison population has increased with the war on drugs and what is is costing the taxpayer to keep them there this is an old report but for lack of more recent info of interest I will just post this
____________________________________________________

About 60 percent of federal prisoners are drug offenders (Figure 3), and that figure is expected to hit 70 percent by 1995, according to the Bureau of Prisons. In 1981 only 22 percent of federal prisoners were drug prisoners.(41) The current and projected percentages of federal prisoners incarcerated for drugs are comparable to the combined figures for drug and alcohol offenses during Prohibition. (Note that many alcohol prisoners remained incarcerated for years after the repeal of Prohibition.) And it is quite clear that drug prohibition has no more saved America from drugs than alcohol prohibition saved America from alcohol. The increasing tendency to imprison drug offenders for lengthy periods means that America's state and federal prisons deal more with drug offenders than violent criminals (Figure 4). In 1990 the number of persons sent to prison for drug crimes (103,800) exceeded the number sent for violent crimes (87,200) or for property crimes (102,400).(42) About a third of all new commitments to state prisons were for drug crimes.(43) As recently as 1960, only 1 in 25 state prisoners was a drug prisoner.(44) If current trends continue, by the year 2000 half of all prison inmates will be drug war prisoners.(45)

____________________________________________________________
jd Baja is Great warm and cooling off at night birds are singing and it seems like spring

[Marcia2202]

Please do not take that maybe not well phrased sentence out of it's context. I went on explaining in length what I meant. Of course they are there because they were convicted, if not they wouldn't be there. I know that ppl don't just end up being there out of the blue. I should have maybe written that we do not know what they have been convicted for. I do not know how the legal system works in the US, but anyway, I am speaking about the subject in general, not particularly in the US. I used to live in a country where you get put in jail for 6 months for having 1 joint on you. No warning nor probation. Straight to jail.

I'm sure most of us might have done something we could have been convicted for, if caught... Maybe not in our own country, but in another...

God bless,

Marcia

[Deb_c430]

Federal and state prisons are very different, Federal, if you cross a state line or a country border

http://www.fdungan.com/prison.htm,

recent Ca overcrowding

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/10/AR2006061000719.html

illegal

35% http://www.californiaprogressreport.com/2008/02/immigrants_incl.html, misquoted amount

Federal
http://www.bop.gov/

[Deb_c430]

Not so much any more baja,  to many of them,  depends also on their crimes, shortness of time being served.  

they are a over crowded mess,  fed, clothed,  basics need mets.  Rocker yes prisons have a huge union, but said that the people that work there are still very understaffed, Crime is Crime.   There is a aasembly woman here running for office, she thinks they should be put to work, like our Sherif Joe in AZ, AND she is a democrat, her visits show them all to be laying around sleeping all day,

baja is beautiful!   love it there.

[meki]

Interesting discussion --- as long as NO ONE takes it personally.

OK DOKIE?

Remember - we're a discussion board --- lots of differing opinions...

As long as we keep it to thoughts and ideas -- we'll have a very fun debate.

Meki
Ps. Hugs to y'all.

[Deb_c430]

no worries here meki, I am out now,  watching football!  

[yebbydebbydoo]

Not to worry, I think most people could figure out what you meant, not just those of us that have spent time in Europe.

[jdwithhcv]

Since the original post was a link to an article about US prisons I thought your comment was about the US legal system.  As far as spending time in Europe - I lived in Europe for years and I am a citizen of Ireland.

[Marcia2202]

Of course, that makes sense. I would love to go to Ireland one day. I hear that the countryside is so beautiful.

Marcia

[bajawoman]

I have a friend that spent 4 years in San Quentin for two joints in the 1950's he benefited only that he became a great painter in prison my other friend learned the sax and plays it quite well both were minor drug charges that were treated like capitol crimes now days
times have changed you have to consider too I have not lived in the states since 1985

[Marcia2202]

Wow, talk about really really bad luck... scary...

[Deb_c430]

1950s weed was the heroin,  that is mean prison. Alot worse now!

Yebbydebbydo, what a great name!  love it!   Ill be singing the flintstones all day!  to cool!

[GoofyDad]

Would we see inmates committing crimes just before release in order to extend from 48 to 72?

[Deb_c430]

naw, for the needles,

[merryBe]

this has become a real problem in our state. we are required to treat all prisoners, for everything and half of them are activly sharing needles and using while treatment is ungoing at taxpayers expense.... or they reinfect themselves shortly after tx while still in prison or soon after release.  You can take the man out of the prison, but we need to take the prison out of the man.

the stats for liver failure in continual drinkers or IV drug users are staggeringly poor....one reason why I think the day will come when sobriety before tx will become SOC. First treat the soul so that the drug cravings are gone, then treat the HCV...otherwise it is an excersise in futility. just my opinion. In fact the tx drugs in the presence of alcohol or certain recreational is even more harmful and likely to cause premature death, than to not treat.  (see cocksparrows recent thread on non-responders for those studies.

mb

mb

[Marcia2202]

That is some very good insight on the subject, I must say!

marcia

[Marcia2202]

It's just amazing how corrupt some people in the prison system are,  that inmates can actually get drugs and syringes into the prisons....

[Deb_c430]

Nothing to do rarely with corruption in the prison system, Its called ingenuity by the prisoners,  Most of the men and women who work in them are good decent people.   With a very hard job, trying to control people who kill, hate and are in there for a reason.  

It is called men or women looking to get over, it is prisoner power plays,   over crowding.   i wish ya'all would stop trying to romantice this guys, and read some facts.

[yebbydebbydoo]

????

No football today I guess.

[Deb_c430]

why not?   We are getting games?   yabba doo

[fretboard]

A new division was created within the California Dept of Corrections a few years back, specifically to look into the medical care that is being provided for inmates and various contracts for future health care in CA state prisons.  It's called the Plata Division, CDC is one of the richest in the nation, funds are continually being appropriated for this Dept. which makes prison after prison in response.  That's insanity in it's highest form.  If you read the top link you will read about some very cruel situations, but I didn’t read anything about HepC.  Viral replication can be safely minimized, sure it’s not a cure, but it’s something and in a lot of HepC cases it will work in a pinch and if prison isn’t a pinch, I don’t know what is.  God Bless  


http://www.prisonlaw.com/pdfs/Medcomplaint.pdf

http://www.prisonlaw.com/cases.php

http://www.prisonlaw.com/pdfs/receiver.pdf

http://prisonlaw.com/cases.php

[nygirl7]

Morally and humanely I think we'd all like to see everyone be cured of this disease however the cost already to house and feed inmates is so tremendously high that honestly....I can't see spending another $20,000+ on top of this figure. These are mostly hardened criminals who are not going to change their ways. Drug addicts who have raped, murdered, stolen and destroyed lives. Drug addicts who once out of prison go straight back to their way of life.

We are NOT talking about someone in a county jail who has committed some first offense and will perhaps be getting out and living a productive life. For the most part these are men who have made the opposite decision and will not change no matter what (as proven by their prison status).

I would rather see the money (if there WERE money) spent on people out here who do not qualify for the medications for one reason or another or for drug advances and science.

And before anyone wants to say what a witch I am - my exhusband was hepc positive. He spent most of his life in and out of prisons on repeated drug/alcohol related offenses.  I do not believe that hard working peoples taxes should have had to be responsible for his treatment while in prison.

It would have been up to HIM to get his life together, find a job and then have his insurance pay for his treatment.    

As it was though, the man relapsed into drugs soon after getting out of his last stint in jail and killed himself while wasted. Had he wanted to be drug / prison free he could have gone to rehab and gotten his life together and treated his own disease (hcv).  It was not anybody elses responsiblity to do so.

It was his and like most repeat offenders - the ending was sad but not unexpected.

MANY men even use jail as a home in the winter.  For food, clothing and a place to sleep. Why then should they be entitled to more than that when already the cost is on the tax payer who goes to work each day and barely can get by in life.

Just my personal opinion.

[Rockerforlife]

there are more and better drugs in prision

[Rockerforlife]

supplied by the very system that keeps them there....its a cruel world