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Milk Thistle while taking Interferon:

One last time....
Milk thistle & Interferon--Dr. Weil's answer:

http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/id/QAA326618

Q  
Looking for a Liver Cure?
Is it okay to take milk thistle with interferon injections?
A
Answer

You definitely can - and should - take milk thistle if you're being treated with interferon (for chronic hepatitis B or C, I assume). Milk thistle (Silybum marianum) is an herb that protects the liver from toxic injury and stimulates regeneration of the liver. It does this by enhancing the metabolism of hepatocytes, the working cells of the liver. Milk thistle products are available in health food stores. Look for standardized extracts in tablet or capsule form, and follow the dosage on the label. You can take milk thistle indefinitely.

I've known a number of patients who have reversed hepatitis C using milk thistle in conjunction with another natural remedy, Schizandra (Schisandra chinensis), the fruit of a Chinese plant. Schizandra berries, like milk thistle, are nontoxic and support healthy liver function. I usually recommend them as part of a natural treatment protocol developed by Dr. Qingcai Zhang in New York. (www.dr-zhang.com)

Hepatitis is an inflammation of the liver. There are several forms of viral hepatitis (the type treated with interferon, an anti-viral drug). Hepatitis C is a progressing disease that slowly destroys liver cells even while infected people remain symptom-free. It typically is diagnosed after a patient complains of fatigue or abdominal tenderness or after routine blood tests show elevated liver enzyme levels. Hepatitis C is transmitted by infected blood (via blood transfusions, hemodialysis, or by sharing needles with intravenous drug users). The disease usually becomes chronic, and in about 15 percent of cases (over a period of 20-30 years) leads to cirrhosis of the liver and, sometimes, liver cancer.

Hepatitis B, also due to a viral infection and common in parts of Asia, becomes chronic in only five to 10 percent of cases. It is transmitted via blood transfusions, IV drug use, sexual contact, or from an infected pregnant mother to her fetus. Symptoms include jaundice, loss of appetite, nausea, vomiting and fatigue. Milk thistle can be safely used with the medical treatments available to treat either type of hepatitis.

Andrew Weil, M.D.


86 Responses
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Avatar universal
Sorry to have to tell you this but if you are not clear by 24 weeks your chances for SVR are fairly slim less than 3% with 48 weeks tx.

You might want to consider stopping the Milk Thistle.
CS.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I have been on milk thistle since diagnosed 3 yrs ago.  Gastro put me on it because I wasn't ready for tx.  I have been on tx since Aug. 07 and have continued taking the same amount everyday just like always.  No problems.  When I first went to my gastro for my diagnosis my viral load was 2 ml.  When I decided to go on tx they, of course did another vl and it was down to 480,000.  All I was taking was the milk thistle.  Now I'm on the tx and my vl has continued to drop but not at zero yet.  I'm six months in to it and hope I can find someone to give me good news about being a responder but not as quick as the Dr. wanted.
I dropped the vl on milk thistle more than I have on the tx.  On tx I started out at 480,000 and have only come down to 1500.
I wish I knew all the long term effects of staying in and fighting to zero another 3 months.  I made the decision to keep going but I'm questioning myself.  
Debbi
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Avatar universal
I have been on milk thistle since diagnosed 3 yrs ago.  Gastro put me on it because I wasn't ready for tx.  I have been on tx since Aug. 07 and have continued taking the same amount everyday just like always.  No problems.  When I first went to my gastro for my diagnosis my viral load was 2 ml.  When I decided to go on tx they, of course did another vl and it was down to 480,000.  All I was taking was the milk thistle.  Now I'm on the tx and my vl has continued to drop but not at zero yet.  I'm six months in to it and hope I can find someone to give me good news about being a responder but not as quick as the Dr. wanted.
I dropped the vl on milk thistle more than I have on the tx.  On tx I started out at 480,000 and have only come down to 1500.
I wish I knew all the long term effects of staying in and fighting to zero another 3 months.  I made the decision to keep going but I'm questioning myself.  
Debbi
Helpful - 0
419309 tn?1326503291
very curious to know who your hepatologist is @ Yale.  My husband's doc is too, and he nearly hit the roof when we mentioned "alternative" treatments.
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Avatar universal
Just so that you are aware, Dr. Schiff in Miami does NOT have a fibroscan available at this time.  I contacted his office to inquire about getting one for myself and this is what I was told.    I'm going to start trying to save the money (even though it will take me quite awhile), to fly out to California and get HR to do one for me.

Susan400
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Avatar universal
Most likely IMO most heppers are low in not only Vit D, but all the other supplements that support the immune system, such as E, selenium, zinc etc.

I say this because when the immune system is trying to fight the virus, it would seem that it would be drawing on the vitamins that support the immune system and the E, selenium etc,also fights free radicals.

What was so interesting to me is that I had a zillion tests before tx and I have the report and in the report is shows that I am low in ALL the vitamins that support the immune function - though I was taking large doses.

The other thing that you have to make sure you take PLENTY of is the Probiotics cause they support immune function too. HR talks about them alot and thats probably why.

But again, in mentioning the conventional docs are behind the times, OKay, they now tell us to take vitamin D, but I have not had one conventional doc tell me to make sure I am taking probiotics especially to make sure plenty prior to tx. They just don't know all this stuff.

Though I take a lot of them, a test I had just prior to dx,showed NO lacctobacillus at all! The doc (holistic) was very surprised and so was I, cause I faithfully take them,,but then after hep dx, it all made sense to me, and even more sense now cause I may have had the guiardia back then too and so all of this was draining my immune system IMO. BTW my feeling on the protazoa was that it was always there as my PCP always says we all have para's etc,,,,,BUT I think cause I went into such a panic/shock upon hep dx, that my immune system took a nose dive and thats when I had overgrowth of paraisites/candida in my intestines. Just a theory of mine. (theory # 4,0097:)

Helpful - 0
131817 tn?1209529311
I JUST discovered my Vit D was low, really low. It could have been throughout tx. I am now on a Vit D RX once a week for several months. Perhaps this could be one of the reasons my immune system didn't support the tx....who knows?  I am glad I did find out about the Vit D. My rhemy prescribed it and said it would help my bone and joint pain. Not sure if it has, as I am on Lyrica now for that. I sure feel better!  

Linda
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I think the biggest problem that we face as far as what supplements or herbs that we should or shouldn't take while on tx is that we are asking or depending on answers from our hep doctors and MOST, if not nearly ALL, have not studied nor read anything about supplements or herbs ever. The majority of us are being treated by doctors that have studied ONLY"conventional medicine" and here we are seeking their advice on what supplements we can take while on tx:) - . My hep doc told me he is open minded and I do think he is, but an example is this year he told me that now they have found out that low level of vitamin D may effect whether or not you SVR. But I already knew that vit D effects the immune system and made sure my level was good last year before that tx started. As a matter of fact I know the story of how Dr.Cannell discovered that vitamin D boosts the immune system because I have subscribed to Dr. Julian Whitakers newsletter for many years - along with other news letters such as Dr. Williams etc. So little by little conventional doctors are comming around and seeing how some naturral foods/vitamins/herbs can help us MAYBE to achieve SVR.

The more I try to understand this disease,why people relapse, why we have non responders,,the more it makes me realize that we are in deep trouble that our doctors haven't much of a clue to how they can and should help the immune system somehow 'balance itself" through the use of natural methods PRIOR to txing. This "lets role the dice again" to see if you clear is all they do because "that's all they have." THEY (conventional doctors) are very limited in how they can help us, except to put us back on the trolley track. I am not saying this as a knock, cause I thank God that we have our doctors, and I do like my doctors though I don't agree with everything they say and I feel we have a right to question our own tx.

I just read something so well written but I dare not post it because it happens to be written by a lay person and I don't feel like hearing "he's not a doctor blah blah blah," but anyhow, this guy is so on the money IMO,, and he discusses what he has found in his own research concerning autoimmune, our bodies response - so many other things that its just too much to mention - btw also mentions the sinus problems, brain, liver etc. Its so well written though and the more I read - the things he touched on and just the way he compiled the whole thing,,, it just amazed me,, and what really amazed me is that he has said things that alot of us have touched on in our own 'trying to put the puzzle together' discussions.

But anyhow my opinion is we need more doctors like HR who has an understanding of both sides of the coin - conventional medicine and alternative because it is going to take both to find a real cure. Thats just my opinion though.

Have a good weekend everyone!
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I know this was only done in a lab but still interesting especially point 4.
When combined with interferon alpha, both silymarin and sho-saiko-to inhibited HCV replication more than interferon alone

So maybe taking MT is not such a bad idea after all.

From http://www.hivandhepatitis.com/2007icr/aasld/docs/120407_b.html
Experimental Botanical Therapies for Hepatitis C
Silymarin and Sho-saiko-to Section

The activity of the 2 therapies was studied in the laboratory in human hepatoma liver cell lines (Huh 7 and Huh 7.5.1) infected with JFH-1, a genotype 2a strain of HCV that can replicate in vitro.
Results
1. Silymarin inhibited expression of TNF-alpha in anti-CD3 stimulated human peripheral blood mononuclear cells and NF-kappa-B dependent transcription in Huh7 cells.
2. Both silymarin and sho-saiko-to inhibited infection of Huh7 and Huh7.5.1 cells by JFH-1 virus in a dose-dependent manner.
3. Both compounds also displayed prophylactic and therapeutic effects against JFH-1 infection.
4. When combined with interferon alpha, both silymarin and sho-saiko-to inhibited HCV replication more than interferon alone.
5. The antiviral effects induced by silymarin involved both JAK-STAT pathway dependent and independent signaling.
6. Sho-saiko-to enhanced interferon-stimulated response element (ISRE) transcription via p38 MAP kinase activation.
7. High performance liquid chromatography fractionation of the herbal preparations permitted identification of specific components eliciting antiviral actions.

“The data demonstrate that standardized silymarin and sho-saiko-to have antiviral action against in vitro HCV infection, and that silymarin has immunomodulatory and anti-inflammatory actions,” the researchers concluded. “Therefore, CAM-based approaches may assist in the management patients with chronic hepatitis C.”

CS

Helpful - 0
131817 tn?1209529311
I was told by many here and my Dr. not to take Milk thisle on tx. Perhaps afterwards or pre tx.....seems like this thread got off track from the original question.  There are some anti fibrotics to take during tx that may help.  Oxymatrine is one that comes to mind...If not on tx check out Gauf's profile and see HR's diet for ant fibotics. On tx, I sure wouldn't take Milk thisle. You don't want to mess with these tx drugs.  
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
OK I know this is an old thread but thought I would comment anyway.

The following comes from Projects in Knowledge Care and Council
Helping Patients Stay the Course on Treatment for Hepatitis C
Patients should be instructed to:
1. Maintain good nutrition, including adequate intake of niacin and vitamin C.

So are they wrong.

And the following from Liver International ISSN 1478-3223
Plasmatic vitamin C in nontreated hepatitisC patients is negatively associated with aspartate aminotransferase

Abstract
Objectives: To evaluate the possible relationship between aminotransferases levels and markers of oxidative stress in chronic hepatitis C patients.

Design and methods: Patients without treatment for hepatitis were divided in to
group I (15–39 U/L);
group II (41–76 U/L) and
group III (81–311 U/L) of activity alanine aminotransferase (ALT).

Blood markers of oxidative stress [catalase (CAT), glutathione peroxidase (GPx), thiobarbituric acid-reactive species (TBARS), nonprotein and protein thiol (NP-SH and P-SH) groups and vitamin C] were determined. Results: P-SH and NP-SH levels, TBARS, GPx and CAT were not different between groups. Vitamin C was significantly decreased in groups II (P = 0.03) and III (P = 0.001) when compared with group I and correlated negatively with aspartate aminotransferase (AST; r =_0.29, P = 0.042).

Conclusion:
Vitamin C levels were negatively associated with AST, suggesting that vitamin C could be an additional indicator of hepatitis C severity.

Now I am no Doctor but wouldn’t the above suggest that extra VitC should be taken.
CS
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Don't forget there's "NO MONEY in the CURE" we all are battling an inevitable progressive life threatening disease treated with drugs in the category of "lets try this one and see what happens". My spouse and I are battleing Hep C 1a with coninfection of Hep B from hemodyalisis  And knowing that Hep C treatments and post transplant medications are BIG BUSINESS for pharmaceutical companies we have little faith in them actually finding a cure in the near future. As one writer stated follow what's in your heart; your life and your liver is in your hands. I agree with being warry of products from China they are full of pesticides that your liver has to filter (causing further damage), I agree that there's not enough research and don't expect there will be why not??  again because there's NO MONEY in the CURE. Do what you feel is right for you, pray to whatever GOD you believe in (if it's about GOD it all GOOD") and live you life to the fullest. My husband is going to start antiviarl treatment soon but we are also incorporating Milk Thistle and Acai berry from Amazon Thunder and lots of prayer. What I'm saying is indulged yourself go to accupuncture, meditate, take your herbs (however do be mindful of herb to herb interactions as well as drug to herbs) if the outcome is good or less than desireable that's just the way it was supposed to be.

Wishing all of you
PEACE,LOVE, and HARMONY
         Philo
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
No biggie mike. Hope you are having a fine day. I'm about to get walloped by a thunderstorm so I better get off the 'puter.

Yours in  truth,
Mr Liver
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Avatar universal
Don't give it another thought. I like and respect you so we can disagree or misunderstand one another on occasion - it's no big thing. Stay well, Mike
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Avatar universal
Indeed it appears that you do have seniority over me and I stand corrected. I think I've been here since 2002 and I don't think there were doctors at the Hepatitis side then so you do go back aways. Mike
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Avatar universal
Scott,

Nice to meet you and thanks for the welcome and advice. I know of the types you refer to. I read a few days of posts before jumping in, and I spotted a few of those to whom you refer.

Yours in truth,
Mr Liver

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Avatar universal
Well, it would appear I have seniority over you.
Yes, this forum used to have docs. They were hepatologists from Henry Ford.
Yours in truth,
Mr Liver
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Not very long ago a few people here thought I had like 50 names and instead of being concerned about their disease the main reason they came here was to be involved in soap opera style dramas and guessing who is revenire today.  Med Help booted me like a dozen times but I am a perfect gentleman.  Ask anyone.

As I said, you seem like a fine addition to the site and if I can be so bold to offer you advice: there is a coven here that gangs up on people.  They conspire together to get people banned on specious grounds.  It is wicked and sinful.  

Some of them haven't even treated but just go to message boards. One stays the same age no matter what year it is.  

I've already said too much.  

Med Help will probably boot me when they come back from vacation, or wherever they are, so I wish you well and hope you beat this damn disease. I am a 1a, went 88 weeks, relapsed and am gearing up for round #2 and will never let this thing beat me.

My name is Scott.  But if I am talking to myself I already know that.
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Avatar universal
Ha ha, I sometimes forget where I am.

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Avatar universal
You said: "This site was much better when the docs were here."

Well, I don't remember that either and I have been here for quite a long time. Are you sure you know where you are ..... let alone who you are?

Mike
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Avatar universal
Those who seem to be overly obsessed by names will love this one. Either we are two different people, or you are posting to yourself. The more paranoid and obsessed ones will actually believe the latter.  lol
And thanks for your words. I just come by once in a blue moon to lend info and support and all of a sudden I find myself in the midst of mindless controversy over vitamin c with some paranoid delusionals who have reading comprehension disabilities. This site was much better when the docs were here.

Your in truth,
Mr Liver
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
How 'bout Al Bueman ?
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
In my book, and I keep one, you are allowed to do anything.  You're a top fellow and have my respect and you always will.  It was a misunderstanding and I do apologize if you got lumped in with the more paranoid part of Med Help.  

You're a person I can call a friend and we go back a ways at this place.

Thanks for all the help over the years and best to you.

Scott
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I didn't read either of those threads until just now - 5/28/07 12:27 AM Eastern time. What do you mean "come on" - do you think I am lying about this? You know me  better than that. The guy's name is Mr. Liver and he says he's been here for 7 years - aren't I allowed to ask him who he is? Come one Scott. Mike
Helpful - 0
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