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Muscle repair post tx
A question to all the experts!
During tx my muscles became practically non-existing. I can feel that it is very difficult to train them up again after tx. They have gotten somewhat harder, but I am experiencing pain. Usually this would go away after training for a while, but instead, 3 weeks later, the pain is getting more pronounced. I am riding my bicycle every day as a means of getting around Copenhagen, but have decided to take a break from it for a day. While biking I do not really experience pain, but afterward I have problems getting up the stairs and getting up from a squatting position. It feels that the process of muscle repair after 'exercising' is sluggish.
I am taking extra protein and have started taking glutamine again...
What else can I do?
Thanks before hand!
During tx my muscles became practically non-existing. I can feel that it is very difficult to train them up again after tx. They have gotten somewhat harder, but I am experiencing pain. Usually this would go away after training for a while, but instead, 3 weeks later, the pain is getting more pronounced. I am riding my bicycle every day as a means of getting around Copenhagen, but have decided to take a break from it for a day. While biking I do not really experience pain, but afterward I have problems getting up the stairs and getting up from a squatting position. It feels that the process of muscle repair after 'exercising' is sluggish.
I am taking extra protein and have started taking glutamine again...
What else can I do?
Thanks before hand!
You guys are all angels... :-)
I gave it a break for two days (which I didn't like doing, as I feel like taking a ride every day) Anyway, I went out on a not so long ride today. It really worked out well. I'm not sore today and no problem getting up from squatting. I guess I need to go slowly and not use the same muscles every day, until i get back to normal. I obviously need to be a bit more patient with myself.
As I wont be able to ride that bicycle from the 24th until July, I guess I will just do a little Pilates every day. Been a bit lazy to get back into it, but the time has come...
Thanks everyone for all the great advice and sharing experiences.
Our forum is the bomb!!!
I gave it a break for two days (which I didn't like doing, as I feel like taking a ride every day) Anyway, I went out on a not so long ride today. It really worked out well. I'm not sore today and no problem getting up from squatting. I guess I need to go slowly and not use the same muscles every day, until i get back to normal. I obviously need to be a bit more patient with myself.
As I wont be able to ride that bicycle from the 24th until July, I guess I will just do a little Pilates every day. Been a bit lazy to get back into it, but the time has come...
Thanks everyone for all the great advice and sharing experiences.
Our forum is the bomb!!!
I would like to find some water exercises - if anybody knows of a website that has water aerobics instruction please post a link. I'm going to do some searching and I will post whatever I find.
Gosh, this is timely! I started biking a few weeks ago and then hurt my back. Been doing PT and couldn't believe how much pain I had from stretching places that had turned to mush on tx. The therapist suggested water exercise. My grungy little town owns a tiny section on Palm Beach and we have a municipal pool next to the ocean. I went by the other day to purchase a city resident pass. I ran into my water aerobics instructor while I was there. I'll do the exercise classes on Saturdays with her.
Rode my bike about 6 miles yesterday. Remarkably, my joints can handle the riding well. My muscles though, OMG! Oh, the BURN! It's been this way since tx ended. I can't bend or squat to get things out of lower cabinets. Well, I can. I can get down. Just can't get back up again. I feel like a bad disco song.
Thank you for this thread. It's amazing how much we supported each other during tx. It's nice to know that we have similar issues once it's over too.
I'm waiting for sea lice season to be over so I can see how well snorkeling goes. So far I'm tolerating sunshine really well with just a little bit of skin trouble around my nose and ears.
Peace and strength.
Rode my bike about 6 miles yesterday. Remarkably, my joints can handle the riding well. My muscles though, OMG! Oh, the BURN! It's been this way since tx ended. I can't bend or squat to get things out of lower cabinets. Well, I can. I can get down. Just can't get back up again. I feel like a bad disco song.
Thank you for this thread. It's amazing how much we supported each other during tx. It's nice to know that we have similar issues once it's over too.
I'm waiting for sea lice season to be over so I can see how well snorkeling goes. So far I'm tolerating sunshine really well with just a little bit of skin trouble around my nose and ears.
Peace and strength.
I don't have this down to a science and I believe the science of this is what you're after, so I'll simply share my experiences with you.
Before tx, I was running a few times a week between 5K and 10K each time and working out at the gym on the weights a few times a week as well. My knees have always ached some after a run for most of the day and then it would go away so it has never stopped me.
Now that treatment is done, I took up squash which I had barely started before I started treatment. I'm on the courts in some capacity between 2-4 times a week, games 2X a week and training or solo practising the other 2X. I've not had time to get back into running (mostly because of squash and an earlier start time at work) and decided last week to start in again at 5K once a week and then build from there. I go to the gym this Tuesday to get started on strength training - have a trainer who will start me off and then I'll work at it on my own from there.
About two months ago I played floor hockey with the guys from work. Non stop action for 45 minutes except for "catch your breath" timeouts and back at it. I was pretty battered and incredibly sore afterwards for days. Now a month and a half later, I played again and not only was I not sore at all after playing, but I outlasted most of the guys on the floor to the point where they were making comments about it. This is simply from playing squash that 2-4 times a week and nothing more.
My knee joints do ache and the same as you, squatting down and getting back up again can be a bit torturous but I've noticed steady improvement over time. Just keep at it.
Apache mentioned muscle memory and I do notice that. It seems my poor muscles have just been waiting to be worked out again and they seem pretty happy to be back in service. My cardio is great and my blood pressure at my 6 month PCR exam was better than when I started treatment and I was in decent shape then. I remember posting about low blood pressure concerns and being assured that it was more an indicator of my health level and now I'm in even better shape than before in that regard. I do think you will recover over time also.
I have tried not to push it unreasonably but I always do push it. The last thing I want is an injury that sidelines me from something that is so good for me. I can be as lethargic as anything and within minutes on the squash court, the activity has raised my endorphin level considerably and after I'm done playing, I need to go on the rowing machine for awhile to work off the energy burst it gives me. Well, not so much anymore because I'm playing harder and faster as I go and I work it out on the court except for my personal training days. I still need a row after that. Still an amateur but getting better.
I like Sunshine's suggestion of yoga. I'd like to try that out sometime.
You might need to slow it down a bit but most certainly keep at it. Good luck.
Trish
Before tx, I was running a few times a week between 5K and 10K each time and working out at the gym on the weights a few times a week as well. My knees have always ached some after a run for most of the day and then it would go away so it has never stopped me.
Now that treatment is done, I took up squash which I had barely started before I started treatment. I'm on the courts in some capacity between 2-4 times a week, games 2X a week and training or solo practising the other 2X. I've not had time to get back into running (mostly because of squash and an earlier start time at work) and decided last week to start in again at 5K once a week and then build from there. I go to the gym this Tuesday to get started on strength training - have a trainer who will start me off and then I'll work at it on my own from there.
About two months ago I played floor hockey with the guys from work. Non stop action for 45 minutes except for "catch your breath" timeouts and back at it. I was pretty battered and incredibly sore afterwards for days. Now a month and a half later, I played again and not only was I not sore at all after playing, but I outlasted most of the guys on the floor to the point where they were making comments about it. This is simply from playing squash that 2-4 times a week and nothing more.
My knee joints do ache and the same as you, squatting down and getting back up again can be a bit torturous but I've noticed steady improvement over time. Just keep at it.
Apache mentioned muscle memory and I do notice that. It seems my poor muscles have just been waiting to be worked out again and they seem pretty happy to be back in service. My cardio is great and my blood pressure at my 6 month PCR exam was better than when I started treatment and I was in decent shape then. I remember posting about low blood pressure concerns and being assured that it was more an indicator of my health level and now I'm in even better shape than before in that regard. I do think you will recover over time also.
I have tried not to push it unreasonably but I always do push it. The last thing I want is an injury that sidelines me from something that is so good for me. I can be as lethargic as anything and within minutes on the squash court, the activity has raised my endorphin level considerably and after I'm done playing, I need to go on the rowing machine for awhile to work off the energy burst it gives me. Well, not so much anymore because I'm playing harder and faster as I go and I work it out on the court except for my personal training days. I still need a row after that. Still an amateur but getting better.
I like Sunshine's suggestion of yoga. I'd like to try that out sometime.
You might need to slow it down a bit but most certainly keep at it. Good luck.
Trish
Hi Marcia,
I took up yoga, after tx. It seems to have really helped me. I can't believe how inflexible I'd become while on tx. I don't have muscle pain, (unless I've worked out too much), but I have joint pain. Anyway yoga seems to be a good addition to any fitness routine. I remember you were very weak on tx so bouncing back to your norm, will take some time.
All the best to you.
I took up yoga, after tx. It seems to have really helped me. I can't believe how inflexible I'd become while on tx. I don't have muscle pain, (unless I've worked out too much), but I have joint pain. Anyway yoga seems to be a good addition to any fitness routine. I remember you were very weak on tx so bouncing back to your norm, will take some time.
All the best to you.
Its not wise to work out on the same musle everyday...you need that break the followinfg day in order for it to repair and build...you can work out till the cows come home..but if you dont rest in between...you wont gain
Hey Marcia,
I dont remember you liver condition or general health, but if it is good and Dr ok's it, then start to train.
Muscle has a memory and wants to recuperate.
Resistance training works the fastest to build muscle back.
Once you are warmed up, and use to exercise, build up till you can
work till muscle fatigue. That means till you can just finish the last rep.
Anything else is not accomplishing much. That last rep, you can just get finished, is what tears muscle fiber and builds strength and mass.
Don't just jump right in and do this, build up to it slowly, you do not want to hurt yourself. Low weight and lots of reps.
Within a couple of months you should be able to use low weight and lots of reps till muscle fatigue, at least 6 sets, each till muscle fatigue. This method will vasculate your muscles. You need a good blood supply to and from your muscles to be able to build them. If you have inadequate vasculation of the area, the muscle will hurt more and grow less, build a good foundation of vessels with high reps low weight. This is important for all post tx'ers, since our recent riba/hgb problems.
After, you can increase weight and lower reps to build more strength.
After a good work out, do not work that muscle group for at least 2 days allowing it to recuperate.
I am at the gym every day.
It takes a while. Took me a few months to get back what I lost.
Take it slow but make sure to be intense.
Make sure to keep hydrated. After eot, dehydration lasted for a couple of months for me.
Cardio, like biking or running, will not build strength or mass quickly, if at all. Also it might make you leaner. Don't get me wrong, cardio is good and needed. I am a runner.
If you add muscle strength it will probably make biking easier and less stressful on you. Your cardio will improve with more muscle mass.
You'll get there, be patient.
Good luck
jmho, apache
I dont remember you liver condition or general health, but if it is good and Dr ok's it, then start to train.
Muscle has a memory and wants to recuperate.
Resistance training works the fastest to build muscle back.
Once you are warmed up, and use to exercise, build up till you can
work till muscle fatigue. That means till you can just finish the last rep.
Anything else is not accomplishing much. That last rep, you can just get finished, is what tears muscle fiber and builds strength and mass.
Don't just jump right in and do this, build up to it slowly, you do not want to hurt yourself. Low weight and lots of reps.
Within a couple of months you should be able to use low weight and lots of reps till muscle fatigue, at least 6 sets, each till muscle fatigue. This method will vasculate your muscles. You need a good blood supply to and from your muscles to be able to build them. If you have inadequate vasculation of the area, the muscle will hurt more and grow less, build a good foundation of vessels with high reps low weight. This is important for all post tx'ers, since our recent riba/hgb problems.
After, you can increase weight and lower reps to build more strength.
After a good work out, do not work that muscle group for at least 2 days allowing it to recuperate.
I am at the gym every day.
It takes a while. Took me a few months to get back what I lost.
Take it slow but make sure to be intense.
Make sure to keep hydrated. After eot, dehydration lasted for a couple of months for me.
Cardio, like biking or running, will not build strength or mass quickly, if at all. Also it might make you leaner. Don't get me wrong, cardio is good and needed. I am a runner.
If you add muscle strength it will probably make biking easier and less stressful on you. Your cardio will improve with more muscle mass.
You'll get there, be patient.
Good luck
jmho, apache
If you go to the local pool...be careful if the chlorine...its nasty....go jump in the ocean or a natural lake
I went through the experience as you. I agree with Trinity that water exercise is great if you have access to a pool. For every other exercise, you have to take it easy. When you feel pain, back off for a few days until the pain is gone and then increase the workout when you feel better.
I also think a judicious use of an anti inflammatory works well as long as you don't have much liver damage. When I first started exercising, I would take an Aleve once or twice a week and it was a great help.
Keep at it!!
Eric
I also think a judicious use of an anti inflammatory works well as long as you don't have much liver damage. When I first started exercising, I would take an Aleve once or twice a week and it was a great help.
Keep at it!!
Eric
I've just done some more reading, and it seems that adding creatine to the mix should be very good. I will go out and buy some tomorrow.
Protein, glutamine and creatine
Protein, glutamine and creatine
I have left some notes and pm's on your old account. You might be able to access it again through the notifications you get on your private email. Hope you can access it again. Hugs, marcia
Everyone! Thanks so much!
Yes, I do stretch...
I will go to Indo in 2 weeks and get plenty of massage and pampering there.
I like riding my bike and I do not want to take the bus. I sold my car, so really, I WANT to bike every day. It's not a huge project to bike this way. Copenhagen is flat and I bike at whatever pace I want. I bought one of those old fashioned looking ladies bikes and not one of those racer things. So really, the bike thing is not strenuous at all.
It is just that all my muscles hurt and need something to help them rebuild them.
Are there any fitness gurus out there, guys who do heavy lifting and have their protein, amino acid routine etc routine? Please let me know what works for you.
As said I am taking my supplements, whey protein and glutamine. Any other stuff I should be ingesting?
Yes, I do stretch...
I will go to Indo in 2 weeks and get plenty of massage and pampering there.
I like riding my bike and I do not want to take the bus. I sold my car, so really, I WANT to bike every day. It's not a huge project to bike this way. Copenhagen is flat and I bike at whatever pace I want. I bought one of those old fashioned looking ladies bikes and not one of those racer things. So really, the bike thing is not strenuous at all.
It is just that all my muscles hurt and need something to help them rebuild them.
Are there any fitness gurus out there, guys who do heavy lifting and have their protein, amino acid routine etc routine? Please let me know what works for you.
As said I am taking my supplements, whey protein and glutamine. Any other stuff I should be ingesting?
Well...after reading about the "muscle loss", I'm REALLY gonna have problems when I START treatments in 2010...the problem...I don't get up off my big butt now! Writing is a sedentary thing anyway, and on top of that I HATE TO EXERCISE!!! My daughter is ALWAYS on my case. Of course, she's the size of Tinkerbell [I remember when I used to be] and she LOVES to workout! She gets it from her father...I'm more the "creative" parent...oh hell, I'll confess..."I'M JUST LAZZZZZY", dammit! Oh well, I'm still happy with myself getting through my first tome. My sister is afraid I'm going to go right into writing the "next installment"...there will be three in all...because she says she "never sees" me, I hadn't noticed. But I hope everybody is having a great day, and good muscles!! Luv Ya Miss Marcia...your friend Deb
I bike, tried to pull mine out a couple of times and I'm just not there yet. Very hilly where I live. good luck, jerry
Water threapy is the best! Its so easy on the joints, and you get extra resistance from the water. Water is our friend - fat floats!
Oooooh, massage - great idea Izzy.
Oooooh, massage - great idea Izzy.
I read this phrase somewhere (maybe here??) Weakness is Pain.
I agree totally. You really have to be careful not to hurt yourself while you are still so newly off tx, but at the same time build up your excercise tolerance. I would hate to see ya get couched again, sis.
I took a CPR class yesterday and today I am so sore I don't even want to get up. Arms, legs, hands...everywhere. Feels like I did 10,0000 crunches....what's up with that????
Maybe it's time for you to get a massage?? The excercise is helping your muscles dump the toxins and that may be part of the problem. Just a thought...or excuse to go to the spa.
I agree totally. You really have to be careful not to hurt yourself while you are still so newly off tx, but at the same time build up your excercise tolerance. I would hate to see ya get couched again, sis.
I took a CPR class yesterday and today I am so sore I don't even want to get up. Arms, legs, hands...everywhere. Feels like I did 10,0000 crunches....what's up with that????
Maybe it's time for you to get a massage?? The excercise is helping your muscles dump the toxins and that may be part of the problem. Just a thought...or excuse to go to the spa.
If you have access to a public pool water therapy can be very helpful. Water therapy exercise offers many of the same benefits associated with a land-based exercise program, including development of a treatment plan that is carefully tailored to the individual.
It minimizes the weight placed on the spine and joints and gently helps build muscle without the harsh resistance of land exercise. The buoyancy of water permits a greater range of positions due to the virtual elimination of gravitational forces, particularly for exercises that require lifting the legs, the heaviest limb of the body for most people.
Even if you're not a swimmer, water therapy is a safe, less painful way to stimulate and revitalize the muscles.
It minimizes the weight placed on the spine and joints and gently helps build muscle without the harsh resistance of land exercise. The buoyancy of water permits a greater range of positions due to the virtual elimination of gravitational forces, particularly for exercises that require lifting the legs, the heaviest limb of the body for most people.
Even if you're not a swimmer, water therapy is a safe, less painful way to stimulate and revitalize the muscles.
During treatment, (at least about the past 7 TX's.), I've forced myself to get up off of the couch and get on my treadmill for about 15-20 min. a day and walk on it slowly, or if it was cool outside, go for a short walk. It seemed to help me immensely with the muscle aches. But, my muscles really didn't get a good workout with just that little bit of exercise. This past Jan. I set out on a personal mission to start a going to the gym routine. I've stuck with it, too. In fact, this week, I've finished off 6 days in a row (today) of going to the gym. On Mon., Wed., and Thurs. and Fri., I did an hour long spinning class. On Mon. Wed. and Fri., I also did the free-weights. On Tues., I went to a yoga class. Today, (Sat.), I went and got on the elliptical machine for a 1/2 hr. and then, jumped onto the treadmill for another bit of time to get in 2 miles. I've also done the stretching machine/equipment, every day. Am I tired? YES! Do I feel like over the past 4 mon. time that I've made some progress? YES! I'm actually starting to see some muscle definition that had sorely been lost over all these years of treatments. I also wanted to get into better shape before I have to start this whole assault on my body again, with yet another treatment, whenever that will be.??? Don't know when that will happen right now. Anyhow, when I first started out, I was so weak! I love my spinning class though!
Susan400
Susan400
I bike everyday...i just got a new bike...SPECIALIZED...its and hybrid that weighs in at 20 lbs....all alumin and fiberglass forks
Same here and Im 6 months post next month. If I sit down its so hard to get up and if I drop something on the floor and have to bend I feel like 109 years old. Fore me all in my knees and the pain is bad...I tried walking as much as possible. In the morning get out of bed is the worst. I never had arthritis before that I know..never experienced knee pain before.
Perhaps its interferon induced arthritis and maybe I had it didnt know it and tx made it worse??
I hope it gets better..but I find for me the more I keep moving the better it is.
Its pretty bad..Im hoping it goes away.
BE WELL
Charm
Perhaps its interferon induced arthritis and maybe I had it didnt know it and tx made it worse??
I hope it gets better..but I find for me the more I keep moving the better it is.
Its pretty bad..Im hoping it goes away.
BE WELL
Charm
I'm curious if you're stretching before and after biking. If not, maybe this would help?
I am also having some joint pains (right hip and right wrist), which I did not have before or even during tx, since completing tx. Curious...
I am also having some joint pains (right hip and right wrist), which I did not have before or even during tx, since completing tx. Curious...
I was thinking of biking, too, once my platelets rise again. Let us hear how it goes; if the stiffness and weakness straightens out over time.
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