UND & blood levels, informal survey..

[ladybug52]

This maybe a medical question, but I just want some informal answers.
1.)How many have become UND without a signifiant drop in Hgb?
2.)How many have become UND without anemia but with low ANC?
3.)If you are on peg-intron, which of the blood levels went lowest, Hgb or ANC?
4.)If you are on Pegasys which blood count went lower, Hgb or ANC?
5.) How many are UND without any change major change in blood counts?
Thanks,
Just Curious

[motheroffour]

Uhmmm - maybe define "signifiicant drop in HgB - 4 points, 5 points, 6 points or a reference point <10, <9 <12 whatever.
Maybe define "low ANC" less than 700, less than 500, less than 300?  Give people some data points to make a decision - someone's significant drop could be a blip to someone else without some data points.  

[jmjm530]

Close to 3-point drop in two weeks from pre-tx baseline. I was RVR then SVR. Geno 1. Not sure I see the relevancy of ANC to SVR as it jumps around a lot. But to please the "Deputy" my ANC bounced up and down from 320 to 1400 for no particular reason. I should also add that around the time of my initial hgb drop, I took 2000 mg/day of riba for around a week which may have skewed results.

-- Jim

[nygirl7]

I had a full six point hemo drop by week 4 from 15+ to 9.  It was physically devastating and it happened in only just over a week - in between two CBC.  I just can't imagine what would have happened had I not been so diligent about getting the CBCs.

However - I was NOT UND until somewhere after week 12.  I had almost a three log drop at week 4 but hit some strange plateau and could not get under a 400 count until after 12.

The way my hemo dropped - you would have thought I'd be UND to zero but...nope.

My ANC jumped all over the place.

I am UND now 4 months post ts 72 weeks on Intron.  Genotype 1A and 1B.

[shastri20032003]

I had a hgb drop from 13 to 11.8 by wk 4 which is not significant but I was also UND..all other bloodwork was within range or just our of tolerance
By week 12 my hgb was 9.2!
This is with SOC peg/800mg riba
Have a nice weekend!

[debnevada]

no drop until week four from 16.9 ti 12.9 current anc just out of low range.
UND at week two.

[GrandmaA]

My experience was somewhat similar to NYgirl. I had a big log drop at first. The VL went down but at week 11 it went up to 960 VL. I was concerned so I switched clinics to Dr. Gish and more frequent and consistent care. I wasn't tested at week 12. But by week 15 VL was zero. So I had a little blip in my first results also. Geno 1a, age 65.

[Lilla]

my hemo at start was 14.9; at end of week 3 it was 12.8, week 8 it was 12.2, then 11.6 and at week 13 it was 11.5 (I'm now in week 18).   ANC at start was 2630, end of week 3 - 689,  then 694 after week 8, 695, 545 and at week 13 it was 790.  (WBC went 5.0, 2.7, 2.0, 2.1, 1.8, and 2.0 - RBC went 4.65, 4.12, 3.91, 3.68, 3.64, 3.55).   New doctor (NP)  prescribed neupogen when ANC was 694, but I declined.  ANC went up, then down, and back up.   My VL was 1.8 mil, and at week 3 it was 135.  At week 8 it was <5UND.    

[cruelworld]

peg intron

i went from 16 to the low 12s and have stayed there
red blood cell count went to half
anc went from 4000 to 2000 and bounced back to 3000
white blood cell count went to half

nothing drastic but evidence of drugs doing something

[orphanedhawk]

Simply put:
    #2, Yes yes
   #4 ANC went lower
  (p.s. there are aphids on my fuschia, aren't you hungry?)

[FlGuy]

I used both Redipen and Pegasys but with differeing riba amounts, so really can't compare hgb.  But Redipen seemed to drive ancs lower and faster than Pegasys even with aggressive more use of Pegasys.  I've wondered about it before but like many other thoughts I have it easily escapes.

[GoofyDad]

GT 3 - RVR and SVR. HGB did a pretty steady decline from 16.5 to 7.0. Hovered at 10.5 for a couple weeks with low procrit dosing, then continued down, Later climbed and stabilized around 9 with max procrit.  

WBC low throughout with Neupogen.

[ladybug52]

I have often heard that a drop in Hgb means the drugs are working and the virus is getting killed off. I had a drop in Hgb with peg-intron and I was UND (but not sure for how long.)
But many, like Child's son Nick, has horrible bloodwork, with no success in txing. (as far as viral load)
Then others have low Anc, but become UND, like OrphanHawk who is on pegasys. (any correlation?)
I wondered if the Hgb is affected more by peg-intron, and Anc more affected by pegasys, but Flguy says his Anc was more affected by the redipen which is peg-intron right?
Then Goof had low Hgb and low Anc, but what was your poison, pegasys or peg-intron?
I know they are basically suppose to be the same, I'm playing uneducated researcher instead of Deputy for this post.
Deputy's no fun, I guess researcher isn't my calling either.
Thanks all!
Hugs,
Bugs

[FlGuy]

PegIntron (Schering) is 2B, Pegasys (Roche) is 2A. I don't think that there is demonstrable proof that one is more effective than the other.  Niceguy recently posted a trial for 3a's which is similar in results to others I've seen.  But that's not to say that they are the same.  To me (others' mileage may vary) 2A sx's were considerably less that 2B which allowed me to 'kick it up a notch' by double dosing for a few weeks - until undetectable.  And not to agree with cruel (I'd deny it if confronted) first tx was with only 800 mg riba, second time 1200.  When I got to the point of needing Aranesp (similar to Procrit) I sort of appreciated the anemia because the tx got to the point where I felt that it was finally strong enough because 'it hurt'.

[FullOfHope77]

Last time I used ribo/redipen and cleared (went UND) at 24-28 weeks (they lost the 24 week lab but the 28 was clear). Glad now they lost it as it was one of the reqs for getting into Prove 3 that you don't clear until after 24. , I started at 17 and dropped to 13 and wanted procrit but they wouldn't give it to me until I went to 11.7. I live in higher elevation and everyone here has higher HGC naturally as it's just naturally that way and many train here for sea level type activities for that reason. Anyway, I don't see for sure a correlation between clearing and drop in HGC as I didn't get that until 40 weeks and only got 2 shots.as I came immediatly back up to 13. Remember, it's all relative as I felt a 20%+ drop before I had the feelings that go with that relative drop. if I had started at 13 then I would have felt the results at 10.5 that I felt at 13 starting at 17. I really see it more of a result of the drugs on the body and everyone is different and don't see a direct relationship between the drop and the UND experience. But you're only looking for opinions here so that's mine. :)

[ladybug52]

Thanks, again for the input. I wish there were a rhyme or reason to our bloodwork and effectiveness of tx. If there were some other way to monitor the effectiveness of tx, besides PCR, it would give us something more to think about, something more to tell us what the odds are. It's all a cr@p shoot,and I don't believe that odds tell us everything about our personal chances. BUT, I hate when people have to go thru this tx and have only the PCR to predict success, or lack of it.
If there were two or three predictive  factors to look at we could make a more informed decision on when  to stop, or how long to treat. I guess it all boils down to the PCR, and our personal decision on whether or not to continue tx.
It just makes me sad, when we treat without clearing:(
Flguy. thanks for making the distinction between 2a and 2b.
Fullofhope, I see what you mean about the different altitudes and symptoms of anemia. That's the first time I've ever heard it brought up.
Child, as usual, always thinking of you and Nick.
Hugs,
Bug