Want to tell your insurance company/health care horror stories?

   Vidoes of real healthcare/insurance company stories are being collected on u tube to be shown to congress. For more info. check out:   www dot sicko-themovie dot com

[mremeet]

Generally speaking, socialism sucks dude. Sorry, but there you have it.

[orphanedhawk]

   The health system in this country is broken. I'm not claiming to know of a better way but I know there needs to be more emphasis on care rather than just profits.
    The web sites mentioned here are for anyone interested. If you're not, pass on. No judgement. :)  

[mremeet]

I don't think our healthcare system is broken. I think it's flawed, in need of improvement, could be better...certainly. But if you think it's "broken" now, just imagine how broken it would be if the government takes over (as MM wishes for it to do). Are you really so silly to think there aren't even bigger horror stories that could be told about what goes on in countries with socialized healthcare? Oh, and the US already has a qausi-socialistic healthcare system already. There may be a relatively small percentage of uninsured people in the US, but everyone has access to healthcare (even for people who are not US citizens and are here illegally).

And yeah, removing profits from the healthcare system will also break it. I just took Telaprevir last year, a drug company is risking an awful lot of money to develop that drug, with no guarantee of making a profit. They're taking a chance, a big gamble to develop this drug. And they're doing it to make *GHAST* --- a profit?! Without profits, no new designer drugs to save our lives bubba. How many designer drugs did Cuba develop? Hmm, why so few?? Any ideas? Furthermore, if you curtail the amount of money (i.e. PROFITS) doctors can make (as occurs in socialistic/communistic governments like Moore's beloved Cuba), then the quality and quantity of available doctors will start to slip. Next thing you know, in order to afford them anymore you might actually have to hire them from underdeveloped nations with lower educational standards like, ohh I dunno...Pakistan maybe??

Be careful what you wish for, you might actually get it. In the meantime, feel free to pass on this post too.

[pigeonca]

I think by calling it socialism, you taint the idea of a national health system with a very loaded word.  In my mind it's still insurance, and may even include participation by the existing insurance companies (If anybody can figure out how and why to do that) like Blue Cross or Kaiser or other HMO's.  For example, there is some discussion of extending Medicare to everybody, which would maintain the present system.  I don't think of Canada as a socialistic country, and they have universal health care.  And yes, it's not perfect, but it's better than our system and it costs less too.

Whatever you want to call it, we are already paying for the uninsured - in an extremely uneconomic manner.  Emergency rooms have become the source of primary care for people without insurance.  They wait for an illness to fester, and finally it reaches crisis level.  Then they're given extremely expensive procedures when a bottle of pills might have done the job in the first place.  Our insurance premiums are high in part because we pay for these folks; it's the law that emergency rooms serve anybody in dire need.  If I'm paying $500 a month for my insurance, does it really matter if that deduction is direct or if it comes out of my taxes (which would then be $500 a month higher).  It's $500 no matter how I pay it.

[pigeonca]

Just wanted to say one thing more.  I'm on Kaiser insurance, which I'm told is a model for how a national plan would work.  The doctors are on salary, so the profit motive is out of the picture.  They are paid very well, and many of them were at the top of their classes at major university med schools.  No, they don't make what a private practitioner in Beverly Hills might earn, but they have no need to involve themselves with the boring details of running an office or to worry about the ebbs and flows of the economy affecting their business.  They spend most of their time practicing medicine, and many of them like it enough to remain with Kaiser throughout their careers.

Sometimes, not often, Kaiser doesn't provide everything I want in a timely fashion - it depends on how important a condition it is.  From diagnosis of hepatitis C to first visit with my hepatologist: three days.  From diagnosis of a bunion to first appointment with an orthopedic surgeon: three months.  I could have gone outside and paid for a private surgeon if I wanted to hurry, but I chose to limp along.  Some might complain, but I thought it was pretty fair.

BTW, most hospitals I've visited already have plenty of doctors from places like Pakistan - including, in my neighborhood, such institutions as Cedars Sinai and UCLA.  They're often very good.  

[desrt]

What's wrong with this picture:

An indigent mother, in this country illegally, gives birth in a hospital and receives thousands of dollars of medical care without payment.
A patient with insurance goes to the ER with a migraine and their insurance company is billed thousands and the patient is billed hundreds on top of the hundreds per month they already pay.

Call it corporate greed or call it grassroots socialism, this method of keeping things afloat can only go on for a finite period of time.

[hightrekker]

Moot point---
All Industrial Democracies have universal health care, except the USA---
The US has a shorter life span, higher infant mortality rate than almost all industrial countries--
Cuba has a better infant mortality rater---
And the US health care system cost more than any on earth--
We just not getting the bang for the buck---
Americans are also getting shorter, a universal sign of poor health--
The case is closed, and we need to act--

[PSP-n-Me]

I am an American living in Canada so I have been involved with both healthcare systems - Yes, the USA has State of the Art technology for diagnostic equiptment - Yes, the wait times from symptom to specialist is very quick - Yes, the Hospitals, Labs, Doctors Offices all show taste in their decor - But, the question is "what good is all this, if you cannot afford it" - Canada has a shortage of Doctors, their income is capped so many go south to practice so they can earn a kazillion, and share in those fancy well decorated suites (but not all of them do)...Canada also has walk in clinics for those that are not fortunate enough to find a Family Physician that will accept new patients - But, those walk in clinics are all manned by the same Docs that do not take on new patients (they donate a few hours of time on a weekly or monthly basis) - No one is left out in the cold if they are sick - In the States I have witnessed a person being refused at an ER and transferred to one that accepts UI (uninsured patients) because they had no medical insurance - you will not find that in Canada - No matter how much money you have or how much of an icon you are, you all get the same care.

When I was diagnosed with HCV my first reaction was "I need to go home and get proper care" - Well after weeks of trying to get The Red Cross, the Liver Foundation, anyone that I could contact that may help me get medical care (I was an American citizen and heck I was infected by the American Red Cross) - But to no avail - They all said sorry you need medical insurance...The Canadian Healthcare system did not care if I was American, or what color I was or what gender or how much was in my bank account - they helped me to get into a Hepatologist (which by the way is one of the leading Scientists in Hepatology Research) - Now, it took a few months to get the appointment, and not 3 days like the previous posted stated...

My family all live in the States and my Son In Law pays almost 800.00 a month for his family to be insured - Now you tell me, who has 800.00 a month extra when they have 2 small children...And that is not the best insurance there is to boot! - There is a 20% copay!  My daughter tells me all kinds of horror stories about the inadequate care they get, and misdiagnosed symtoms (symptoms) is not uncommon..

I am not saying one is better than the other - I am just saying that I have lived with both and they both have problems - But in Canada you do not worry about how you will afford to take your babies to the Doctor..

Just my 2 cents worth

[mauilady]

In December, right before I began Tx, a friend of mine went to the emergengy room because his on-going GI problems had gotten worse... he had naver gone to the doctor, because he couldn't afford to, and of course, didn't have insurance.  While hospitalized, he was diagnosed with HepC and inoperatible liver cancer.  He died 5 days later, at home, and I was there.

I'm not a big fan of MM, but I really have to applaud him for Sicko; that documentary is going to be responsible for making a much-needed change in the whole medical system.  It'll just take years to completely switch over; from what I heard, 10-12.

I am a Kaiser member, and I have to admit my care has been pretty decent.

[pigeonca]

One more thing about Kaiser, and I guess this will be true about universal healthcare systems too, is that to get what you want/need, you have to be very, very proactive.  If you're not well enough to look after your own interests, then you need a family member or close friend to agitate for you.  The squeaky wheel really does get greased.

[hightrekker]

Not necessarily true----
In France, doctors still make house calls, and waits are at a minimum---
France and Germany have the best health care by far, and Wester Europeans keep getting taller as health and quality of life improves---
We are getting shorter and fatter in the US, both indicators of poor health-
We have all taken the Blue Pill here in the USA, and want nothing to do with reality, nor do we want anyone telling us about it--

[PSP-n-Me]

have you lived outside of the US?

[orphanedhawk]

    I find it interesting that you took what I was passing on as information, take it or leave it, as my advocating socialism. ( I never said anything about MM.) I do think the system is broken but whether the break is a flaw or not, is only a matter of degrees.    Whether another system is better or not is moot. Our system is based on profit not on care. Maybe it should be renamed from healthcare to healthprofit.
     I remember being a kid and having a doctor come to the house. I remember when people weren't turned away from hospitals.    
           I believe in a system that is for the common good of the people. I also remember the basis of our country; a nation for the people and by the people.

[hightrekker]

Yes---
I have had lived in Asia, and traveled world wide---
I work for Euro's, my ex wife is Swedish (my mother-in-law travels to Sweden for superior health care, and she is fully covered by a major US corporation)-----
I have had care in Europe, Central and South America, and Asia----
The USA is a procedure drive model of care, with the most money made on the most expensive procedures----
There maybe some advantage to specialized operations within the US system, but this diminishes or is absent when accessing care with the standards of France or Germany.

[pigeonca]

There are all sorts of existing institutions in our country that could be construed as socialistic, in that they are shared, for the common good, paid for with tax revenue and operated by state, local and federal governments.  They are the police, fire departments, roads, schools, water purification plants, the whole infrastructure of our nation.  In the same regard, health care ought to be thought of as a public utility - unless you're so right wing that you think we should drive on toll roads and hire our own militias to protect our neighborhoods.  

[mauilady]

You're definitely right about the squeaky wheel approach with Kaiser; it works wonders.  I'm sure it applies to all other HMOs as well.  Doctors are swamped now with so many people that if you don't stand up and make yourself heard, you can get lost in the shuffle, unfortunately.

[hightrekker]

Do they still have the clinic at Ulupalakua ? The rooms were painted like you were in Jacaranda Trees, and I always got good care there. I was also with Kaiser when I lived in Maui---
Great for getting coral dug out of your body after not quite making that barrel, but would need to leave the Island for advanced care--
We are clueless in the US on quality health care.
"The most potent weapon in the hands of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed."
       — Steve Biko

[PSP-n-Me]

I have often thought that US citizens should spend at least a year abroad, and experience the difference in cultures, health care, education and all aspects of life....I think most Americans view the USA ways are the only ways...And this attitude is what makes the rest of the world view Americans as arrogrant...I am truly happy to have a total change of heart regarding the USA whether it be healthcare or any other care - I find it interesting to see how very defensive most Americans get when you question the way things are done - I sure hope I was never that narrow minded..

Peace *dip*

[mremeet]

pigeon - re "socialism" being a tainted and loaded word (in regards to healthcare). It's not a tainted and loaded word to me, it is what it is. And what it is (compared to a capitalistic democracy) is state run healthcare. Which means much higher taxation, less efficiency, longer lines, longer waiting times, and generally an overall reduction in the utlimate standard of care accessible by an average middle class person (i.e. the vast majority within the population). If "socialized medicine" means something different to you, you're certainly entitled to that interpretation (as am I). re your assertion concerning the Canadian healthcare system being better than ours "And yes, it's not perfect, but it's better than our system and it costs less too."  Says who?? Says you?? Myself and a whole lot of other very well informed people disagree. The overall, average quality of healthcare that is commonly available to the average person in Canada is not better than here, and I can assure you it is also very expensive and less efficient than our healthcare system. There are a whole heap-o-people who come down from Canada every year to get their healthcare here instead of Canada. And they usually do this when the stakes are at there highest, like when there's a cancer or heart disease related concern. Why does that happen? I think we all know why that happens, now don't we?
Canada also derives a huge benefit from being our neighbor and ally. Our military power has protected them and kept them from invasion for over a century (no mean feat considering the size and abundance of natural resources in Canada). This has allowed them to maintain a very small military force, which saves them a huge amount of money. This money can then be dumped into other things, like healthcare. Furthermore, they derive many/most of their drugs, especially advanced designer drugs (like telaprevir for instance) from the US (as does most of the world, not the least of which are countries that have socialized healthcare). How and why does this happen? It happens because we have a capitalistic system here. That capitalistic system (for all its flaws) can produce, build and maintain a strong military force whilst simultaneously producing advanced drugs and technology that is facilitating a much longer human lifespan (and it does a whole lot more than that too). These fancy new drugs, computers and diagnostic machines don't come out of some commune living, hairy pitted socialist's butt, it comes out of individuals and corporations that produce these things so that they can make money - and also to help people too. Y'see, people who are entrenpreneurial are still people. They still worry about their own health, they still worry about their children and they still feel compassion for their fellow humans. That's because they're people - people are like that, be they socialistic or capitalistic or whatever "istic" you choose to define or make note of.
re you statement that "socialism" also defines police, public utlilities, schools etc. No it doesn't, generally speaking socialism is where much more than those primary functions are fulfilled by the government. With "fulfilled" being a very loaded word within the context of the government being capable of doing much of anything right. And I'm not "so right wing that you think we should drive on toll roads and hire our own militias to protect our neighborhoods." Although you should know that it's very common in the US to pay tolls on roads and bridges (including that right wing bastion where the Golden Gate bridge is located). It's also common to pay tolls on roads and bridges in socialistic countries. Hopefully you don't think of tolls as being a symbol of right-wingism, because if you did that would be a mistake. Not that I really have terribly strong feelings about tolls one way or another (other than I don't like paying them), but there you have it.
hightrekker - You've made many fallacious statements that warrant a cursory response: Not all industrial democracies have universal healthcare (where it's always free to everyone all the time), so please don't say they do because not all of them do. Plus everyone, repeat everyone has access to healthcare in the US, even if you are not a citizen, are here illegaly, don't have any money and are even a murdering criminal - you still get healthcare and you get it for free. Furthermore, in many cases the healthcare is superior to that available anywhere else in the world, no matter what your wealth or social status is - especially in regards to shock trauma/emergency services. Please don't suggest or outright say that anything less than that is true, because it *is* true.  (cont)

[mremeet]

re your statistical claims: I'm not sure where you've gotten your various statistics concerning our shorter lifespan, higher infant mortality etc, but I'll take a wild guess it's from michael mooresque lefty websites presenting highly parsed, massaged or even outright false statistics to convince the "ill" informed to go the way of socialism. The US is the most wealthy nation in the world, we have the highest overall standard of living, the lowest overall unemployment rate, the best healthcare available anywhere, virtually zero starvation (other than that caused by neglectful/abusive parents and/or amongst the mentally ill) so please oh please don't try and sell the shuck and jive imagary of mounds of stillborn babies and people dying en masse before their time. It's not working, and the millions upon millions of people flooding into our country every year is proof positive that this dismal portrait you portray of the US is false (and would also likely be responsible for any statistically meaningful downtick in US lifespan and infant mortality too). Re your silly comment about height = better health, um it's true that poor nutrition (and general bad health) can cause stunted growth. But the US has a huge abundance of food, even our poorest people have incredibly high obesity rates (the highest in fact). Our poor people also have cable television, Volvos, $150 tennis shoes, entertainment centers and air conditioning. In underdeveloped countries, poor people are very thin and are often stunted in size. This is because they don't have access to enough food, and to a lesser extent healthcare. What's also true is that as previously stated, we have a huge number of immigrants that have been coming to our country in recent decades. And guess what? Many if not most of them are simply naturally shorter than what our population had been mostly comprised of previously. And the dominate populace within the US has mostly been descendents of lightskinned northern europeans and to a lesser extent darkskinned people who were the descendents of African slaves. Both of these races of people tend to be relatively tall when compared to most of the races of people who are now emigrating here in very large numbers from other locales (like central/south america and asia). Also, the recent deluge of immigrants are often from countries where nutritional and healthcare standards are very poor, further contributing to stature differences. So without looking into the details of your Michael Mooresque "fact list", I'm gonna go ahead and call this as the usual half-truthed/propagandistic nonsense common from sources like this. You should too, learn to think for yourself.

Re your claim that US healthcare is more expensive than any on earth - You mean it's the most expensive on Earth per capita, or you mean it's the most expensive without factoring in our nation's size and population? Again, here we go with the half-truthed, misleading Michael Moorisms. Can't you simply stick to the facts? In western Europe, everyone knows that the French healthcare system is the most luxurious and full service healthcare available. Obviously it's one of the most expensive per capita in the world (if not the most expensive), and although I don't have the numbers in front of me right now, I'm gonna go ahead and say that it's MUCH more expensive than US healthcare per capita (facyoring in overt and indirect expenses). So please don't say things like that unless you know what you're talking about (which you clearly don't). And confining your sources of information to Michael Moore and others like him is a mistake when you're trying to understand something as complicated and intricate as national healthcare.

PSP - you state "In the States I have witnessed a person being refused at an ER and transferred to one that accepts UI (uninsured patients) because they had no medical insurance - you will not find that in Canada - No matter how much money you have or how much of an icon you are, you all get the same care."  Are you saying you witnessed a person that required emergency care right away and was turned away for being uninsured and/or for not having any money? If so, what you witnessed was an illegal act - that's illegal in the US, care must be rendered under those circumstances on the spot to anyone and everyone. If that's really what happened, you should have called the police AND a lawyer. What I suspect you witnessed (without you specifically telling me) was someone who had a less than immediately life threatening injury/ailment was redirected to another clinic that accepts UI patients. In another words, that person was not denied lifesaving healthcare when he/she needed it, but was simply redirected to another clinic where that person received healthcare even without having insurance. Kinda sounds not so ominous when you state it plainly like that instead of how you put it, doesn't it?

You also say "The Canadian Healthcare system did not care if I was American, or what color I was or what gender or how much was in my bank account". My goodness, are you suggesting or insinuating the American healthcare system turns people away because they are a certain color, or if they're a certain gender, or if they are not American? Surely you're not suggesting that - are you? That would be silly to say that, everyone knows that's not true...right? We don't want to say things that are not true or misleading when it comes to such a serious matter of national healthcare, do we?

You state "Now you tell me, who has 800.00 a month extra when they have 2 small children...And that is not the best insurance there is to boot! - There is a 20% copay! My daughter tells me all kinds of horror stories about the inadequate care they get, and misdiagnosed symtoms (symptoms) is not uncommon.."   If your son in law is indigent, or very finanically strained, I can assure you he can get access to healthcare for his babies. Let me know where he lives and I might even be able to locate a clinic for him. Or considering your apparent knowledge on the matter, maybe you can locate one for him? One thing's for sure, they definitely exist. In fact, they're very similar to what we would experience if a socialized healthcare system were implemented here in the states. Heck, I was just in my local state health clinic to get my twinrix hepA/B shots and there were several Mexican mothers there getting healthcare for their babies (for free of course). Also, I was speaking with the nurse there (who was English, incidentally) and she said they have a very good prenatal care program for pregnant mothers too (with posters on the wall touting that fact). And again, it's all free if you are uninsured and/or don't have any money. In fact they don't even accept insurance there. I had to pay for my twinrix shots though because I could afford it, and they did not take insurance (would have been free if I was broke and/or uninsured). Oh, and in regards your daughter's "horror stories", c'mon get real. There are PLENTY of horror stories coming from socialized healthcare patients too, probably moreso especially when a serious life threatening illness is being contended with.  And in regards to the $800 month insurance premium. I'm certainly not blanketly defending our healthcare system and exhorbitant insurance prices, there's definitely room for improvement there. But let me tell you something, once the juggernaut of state run healthcare gets entrenched expect to pay at least that much more in direct and indirect taxes a month, month after month ad infinitum (and not just when your babies are babies either).

[mremeet]

Mauilady - "In December, right before I began Tx, a friend of mine went to the emergengy room because his on-going GI problems had gotten worse... he had naver gone to the doctor, because he couldn't afford to, and of course, didn't have insurance. While hospitalized, he was diagnosed with HepC and inoperatible liver cancer. He died 5 days later, at home, and I was there." I'm very sorry to hear about your friend who died from HCC. But I'm afraid your story doesn't quite add up, and again I think we need to be factual and straightforward in our discussion of the facts. Liver cancer caused by HCV doesn't happen overnight (usually taking decades) and it is often brought on by mitigating factors like alcoholism and/or drug abuse in conjunction with a longstanding HCV infection. Are you suggesting your friend could NEVER go to the hospital, or to a doctor, or to a free health clinic to have his general (or specific) health looked into over the span of decades and perhaps decades? NEVER EVER?? Especially considering the span of time it usually takes for HCC to develop? This man was completely uninsured during his entire working life?? He had no acess to free clinics or research hospitals? And did this person abuse himself with alcohol and/or drugs? And was he the type of person who never went to the doctor simply because he was afraid to or just didn't want to? (like I have myself on many occasions) I've known many people who could easily afford good healthcare, and/or who were fully insured, and/or who had bad health habits like smoking/drinking etc, and yet they never went to the doctor (again including even myself at times). They just didn't want to and/or were not terribly interested nor aware of their own bodies and the care of it. Simple as that. Socialized healthcare is no cure for bad health habits and it wont make irresponsible people engage in good health habits nor will it force them to go to the doctor at reasonable intervals. Sorry, but there you have it.

[PSP-n-Me]

LOL

[hightrekker]

The US is 41 in life span---

"Forty countries, including Cuba, Taiwan and most of Europe had lower infant mortality rates than the U.S. in 2004. The U.S. rate was 6.8 deaths for every 1,000 live births. It was 13.7 for Black Americans, the same as Saudi Arabia."


U.S. life span shorter
August 11, 2007 05:08:02 PM PST

Americans are living longer than ever, but not as long as people in 41 other countries.

For decades, the United States has been slipping in international rankings of life expectancy, as other countries improve health care, nutrition and lifestyles.

Countries that surpass the U.S. include Japan and most of Europe, as well as Jordan, Guam and the Cayman Islands.

"Something's wrong here when one of the richest countries in the world, the one that spends the most on health care, is not able to keep up with other countries," said Dr. Christopher Murray, head of the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation at the University of Washington.

A baby born in the United States in 2004 will live an average of 77.9 years. That life expectancy ranks 42nd, down from 11th two decades earlier, according to international numbers provided by the Census Bureau and domestic numbers from the National Center for Health Statistics.

Andorra, a tiny country in the Pyrenees mountains between France and Spain, had the longest life expectancy, at 83.5 years, according to the Census Bureau. It was followed by Japan, Macau, San Marino and Singapore.

The shortest life expectancies were clustered in Sub-Saharan Africa, a region that has been hit hard by an epidemic of HIV and AIDS, as well as famine and civil strife. Swaziland has the shortest, at 34.1 years, followed by Zambia, Angola, Liberia and Zimbabwe.

Researchers said several factors have contributed to the United States falling behind other industrialized nations. A major one is that 45 million Americans lack health insurance, while Canada and many European countries have universal health care, they say.

But "it's not as simple as saying we don't have national health insurance," said Sam Harper, an epidemiologist at McGill University in Montreal. "It's not that easy."

Among the other factors:

• Adults in the United States have one of the highest obesity rates in the world. Nearly a third of U.S. adults 20 years and older are obese, while about two-thirds are overweight, according to the National Center for Health Statistics.

"The U.S. has the resources that allow people to get fat and lazy," said Paul Terry, an assistant professor of epidemiology at Emory University in Atlanta. "We have the luxury of choosing a bad lifestyle as opposed to having one imposed on us by hard times."

• Racial disparities. Black Americans have an average life expectancy of 73.3 years, five years shorter than white Americans.

Black American males have a life expectancy of 69.8 years, slightly longer than the averages for Iran and Syria and slightly shorter than in Nicaragua and Morocco.

• A relatively high percentage of babies born in the U.S. die before their first birthday, compared with other industrialized nations.

Forty countries, including Cuba, Taiwan and most of Europe had lower infant mortality rates than the U.S. in 2004. The U.S. rate was 6.8 deaths for every 1,000 live births. It was 13.7 for Black Americans, the same as Saudi Arabia.

"It really reflects the social conditions in which African American women grow up and have children," said Dr. Marie C. McCormick, professor of maternal and child health at the Harvard School of Public Health. "We haven't done anything to eliminate those disparities."

Another reason for the U.S. drop in the ranking is that the Census Bureau now tracks life expectancy for a lot more countries — 222 in 2004 — than it did in the 1980s. However, that does not explain why so many countries entered the rankings with longer life expectancies than the United States.

Murray, from the University of Washington, said improved access to health insurance could increase life expectancy. But, he predicted, the U.S. won't move up in the world rankings as long as the health care debate is limited to insurance.

Policymakers also should focus on ways to reduce cancer, heart disease and lung disease, said Murray. He advocates stepped-up efforts to reduce tobacco use, control blood pressure, reduce cholesterol and regulate blood sugar.

"Even if we focused only on those four things, we would go along way toward improving health care in the United States," Murray said. "The starting point is the recognition that the U.S. does not have the best health care system. There are still an awful lot of people who think it does."

__

On The Net:

Census Bureau: http://www.census.gov/ipc/www/idb/

[hightrekker]

Interesting data on height and health--
http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2004/04/05/040405fa_fact?printable=true

[desrt]

The inability of the average family doctor to get his average American patient to have a healthy lifestyle/diet is an issue separate from the way in which our healthcare system is run/financed and the way in which a finite number of resources and medicines are distributed to a growing population. Perhaps these issues should be more closely linked, but I don't see it happening in my lifetime.
The best an individual can do is to become educated in the healthcare issues that directly concern his family and try to spend/conserve his income accordingly.
In my case this does not include moving to Andorra.

[orphanedhawk]

     "If your son in law is indigent, or very financially strained, I can assure you he can get access to healthcare for his babies."
     This used to be true. It is no longer due to cuts in welfare.

                       What is your assurance? Where is this proof??
      
       I live at a friends ranch. His son had an accident a few months ago and seriously severed tendons in a finger. He went to a hospital in the city where he attends school. The first thing he was asked was if he had insurance. He said no and was refused treatment. Now, being young, and in shock he didn't know to tell them his father could pay. The boy did get his finger fixed but it has a permanent bend in it due to the time it took to find a hospital that would admit him.
    I was horrified. These things didn't happen when I was young.
  
      I don't think state run health care is the solution but I do think learning what works in other countries may help us improve what isn't working in ours.  And sir, the biggest problem is placing profits over people.                In a democracy the common good should prevail.    
        
      

[PSP-n-Me]

my son in law is not now, or has ever been on welfare or any state or federal programs - I was simply stating the bite it takes out of a young family for medical coverage in the States - But I guess that MM was too busy trying to punch holes in anyone else's opninon that didn't agree with him/her - I believe that is called "arrogance" as my originally point was stated

If you read my original post about when I tried to get help from my country or orgin they simply said "no insurance no help"  so if you (MM) know of a program that can give medical coverage to those that are "indigant" perhaps some may gain from that knowledge of yours
*peace and love*

[orphanedhawk]

Hey, mrmeet is MM and so is Michael Moore.  I guess we all have things in common if we choose to look at what unites us instead of what divides us, just like M&Ms, the color is incidental.    
    I love ironies that involve chocolate.                           OH

[meki]

Y'all are having a political debate in a forum with folks who are brain fogged and me... Fully loaded ADHD?

Rock the heck on!!!!

LMAO!

That's cool that y'all can still like each other although your debates seem to get a bit heated.

I'm a middler on this issue.

I think both sides should improve - I've seen good and I've seen bad.

Thankfully - I have very very very good insurance - and thankfully they did not try to treat this as "a pre-existing condition"... or anything like that.

Thank goodness I had excellent FMLA coverage.

I'm lucky - not everyone is so lucky.

Meki

[GrandmaA]

Those of us who are older than 60 years old can remember when the healthcare system in this country was very different. Kaiser was the first HMO and you had one doctor for almost everything. The drug companies didn't advertize on t.v. and they didn't have so much power and control.
We hardly ever went to the doctor. The medical system gave me HCV through a blood transfusion but I didn't find out about it until 20 years later, so I am on my own, no reimbursement there. But the Lord has been good to me and I do have good health insurance.

[GoofyDad]

"Americans are also getting shorter, "

I knew I should have never gone to that socialized urologist

---------------------------------------

I just spent some time on the beach at Ocean City, Md - a vaction spot from my youth. I was impressed (or not) by the fattening of America. Holy Basted Turkeys Batman! I'm gonna invest in the sunscreen industries - there were simmilar numbers of beachgoers, but double the exposed flesh compared to what I remember. If our health is declining - that's where I'd look first. And I blame the food industry. Pop-tarts, Cheese-whiz, McDonalds, Dominoes, Krispy-Creme, Go-gurt, Fish-stix. Low fat this, no-carbs that. And that great gift to humanity from the breadbasket of America: High Fructose Corn syrurp.

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To bring that closer to home - Europeans appear easier to treat with regard to HCV, when compared to their American counterparts. Why is that? On studies, international groups receive virtually identical care, yet the Europeans fare better. Ethnicity? Obesity? Compliance? Environmental? Whatever. We can clearly see the heathcare dispensed is not the only factor.

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I think we need to be aware of what we would give up with socialized medicine (call it what you will: Universal Health Care). I just moved to Kaiser - and, while it's OK - I liked what I had previously a whole heap more. My expriences at Kaiser suggest that one would have little luck asking for extra PCRs, higher dose RIBA for GT3, etc. Much less voice in your own care - that's my experience anyway. And if it's not clicking for you, you can't just move on down the street to the next guy hanging out a Liver shingle, which is what I did when I moved to CPMC before starting tx.  

On the other hand, having insurance companies to pay for treatments, I think leads to over dispensing too. Uneccessary tests, prescriptions, etc.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------    

[mauilady]

Goofy---why did you switch to Kaiser?  Just curious.  Especially with a pre-existing condition....

Mrmeet-----you hit the nail on the head about my friend that died; he wasn't poactive at all, yes, he partied too hard (up until a little over a year before his death---too late), and my husband was the one who finally took the reins and drove him to the doctor and then the hospital.  To tell you the truth, though, I don't think he was even aware of a free clinic here on Maui---I certainly wasn't until after the fact.  My friend was one of those who liked to blame everyone and everything else for his misfortunes.  I'm sure you know the type.

Hightrekker----yes, that clinic (Kula San) is still there.  Don't know about the purple walls, though!  It's a beautiful building, from the CW Dickey era.  

About the obesity thing: THAT's the problem the US has.  I can't believe that people continue to shovel garbage into their mouths.  I never eat that s---.  And how is a doctor going to tell someone to lose weight when so many doctors are also overweight?!

[PSP-n-Me]

last summer I went to Myrtle Beach - hadn't been there in years - I live in Ontario and there are no salt water beaches here so I was very excited to go - Well - when I got there and walked down to the water I almost got sick to my stomache!!  Big fat - I mean FAT people in tiny little swimsuits!!  And it wasn't the minority of people either - It was about 3/4 of the beach filled with obese sunbathers - YUCK!!  When did that happen - When I lived there you would see thin, tanned bodies -

Grandma - I hear ya - on the way things used to be - When I was growing up we as a family always ate suppers together at the dinner table - we always had very healthy foods - Nowadays with people always on the go - it's take out here and fast food there - and no exercise, always sitting in front of a computer or a TV in their spare time - Can you imagine what America's youth will look like in 10 years!  The life span is dwindling fast, and so is healthcare...Very very sad

*peace and love*
Dip

[GoofyDad]

Job change. Free Kaiser or cost-a-fotune COBRA.

[Andiamo1]

It seems to me that no matter if you are a socialist or conservative you need to understand how to deal with insurance companies.  Insurance companies are dedicated to paying you as little and as late as they can. That is how they improve their bottom line and they have set up endless procedures to make this happen.

They will deny almost all payments the first time and challenge many payments that are in gray areas.

You can improve your odds of getting paid and improve the timing of the payment, by keeping a diary of every step in the claim process.  That means every phone call every email and every letter.

Most insurance company procedures are based on the fact that most people will give up without a fight.  So fight hard and document everything.  Report the company to state insurance monitoring departments if you are unfairly treated and send the diary to substantiate your experience.

When I retired I signed up for COBRA for myself and my wife.  After 18 months, I switched to Medicare and tried to continue COBRA for my wife for another 18 months.  I was told that COBRA is only for 18 months.

I pointed out that the law says that if a person retires at 65, their spouse is entitled to 36 months of COBRA.  Aetna said to me "Oh no, the law has changed."  After much research on the net, I called back and was again told the same story.  I started describing the statutes and asked to speak to a manager.  The manager came on the phone and immediately told me that my wife can continue and this was all a mistake.

I am cynical enough to think that this was nonsense, but the end result is that my wife still has COBRA and she wouldn't if I didn't fight for it.

[pigeonca]

If you're in L.A., Kaiser Sunset is the one to go to.  Their hep docs are the best.  For example, when my hgb dropped from 15.6 to 11.5 in the first 4 weeks, I asked for Procrit and got a prescription for it post haste.  Saw my dermatologist whenever there was a skin emergency, and she prescribed amazingly expensive creams and ointments on an open refill basis.  She even slipped in a little cosmetic laser work on my face, using as a pretext my diagnosis of an autoimmune skin condition.  We've joked that she's going to do my facelift off the cuff, but actually I'd rather pay a Beverly Hills plastic surgeon for that.

One more comment about Canada - there are two Canadian families on my block.  Because of a drop in real estate prices in the early 90's I was able to buy a house in a pretty ritzy neighborhood, so most of my neighbors have lots of dough.  The Canadians, who go to Cedars Sinai and have top of the line Blue Cross, both say that - aside from longer waits for non-essential care - the service is the same, and that they actually miss the Canadian system.  Also, I've lived in Israel, which has a pretty "socialized" system of medicine, although it isn't as good as that of France unless you get to the top hospitals in the big cities - but they are at the forefront of scientific and pharmaceutical development.  Their government works in partnership with private enterprise, which I think is the best way to do things.  The profit motive is great, but doesn't help orphan diseases, for example, or anything that doesn't generate rises in stock price.  You need a mix of both socialism and capitalism, IMHO, to make this world the perfect place it can be.

[GoofyDad]

You need a mix of both socialism and capitalism, IMHO, to make this world the perfect place it can be.

Don't forget fart jokes!

[hightrekker]

That is the point- with Universal Care you don't deal with "Insurance Companies"---
We could save between 1/4 and 1/3 right off the top. without changing a thing--
Just eliminate "Insurance Companies" that need to make a profit---
That 1/4 to 1/3 is their take, and you and I are paying--
This is not the case with all other industrial democracies, and the results speak loudly with their success.
But enough, the US health care system has saved my life twice, and there are some caring and talented compassionate people in it--
It just in not nearly the best, nor are we getting the care that is charged- not nearly the bang for the buck.

PS-Maui Lady --- glad to hear Kula San is still their--

[pigeonca]

Oh yes, fart jokes are essential.  When I was a kid I thought my dad was a magician because he'd say, "Pull my finger" and make an amazing sound.  Not as many pitches as Le Petomane could project, but sill quite impressive to a child.