Wondering about my husband

[Jade318]

Yesterday my husband experianced his second bought of vomiting. The first one was in October. He has had Hep C for 13 yrs diagnosed. He did the interferon treatments for 6 months. But now has a autoimmune system disease of psorisis. In Oct. his enzymes didnt show elivated. But his xray showed a damaged liver is all the doctor said. Yesterday his liver enzymes were elevated.  The emergency room doctor refers him to another doctor who is known for letting her patients die. I don't know what to do. I don't know what it means and i am very worried. The Er doctor said that they were pretty high. He has hypertention (which he hasnt been taking his med's for. The doctor asked him if he was trying to kill him self. He is a bad alcoholic and the vomitting i have noticed is only following a weekend of exsesive drinking. So now the doc sai no more he said ok. Says he will stop. WE SHALL SEE. But however. What does the elevated liver enzymes mean. Because if he is going to die this soon I want to be prepared and make it as easy and loving as posible for him.  

[mremeet]

You don't mention if your husband actually successfully cleared the virus after treatment. Do you know if he is still actively infected with HCV, or did he manage to clear the virus after treating? Elevated liver enzymes can be caused by all sorts of things. But if he's an alcoholic and/or still has HCV, those two factors could easily account for elevated enzymes. Elevated enzymes are generally a sign of ongoing liver damage.

I wouldn't assume your husband is going to die just yet without knowing what his liver condition is in. A liver biopsy is required to assess liver damage. If he has advanaced cirrhosis and he's still drinking and/or still has HCV then he could be in for a very tough time. I know it's not easy, but if you can somehow convince him to stop drinking, that would be step number 1 in having any chance of pulling him back from the edge. Although I've known a few drunks in my time, and unfortunately I've never been able to influence their behavior in any meaningful way. Sometimes there's just no stopping them, the allure of alcohol to some people is absolutely insatiable - all the way up until the very end. Your best bet is to get professional help and to bring his family in on the situation so everyone can contribute to saving him. Don't try to do it on your own, you're almost certainly going to need help.

Wishing the best for you and your husband, take care.

[Kalio1]

Im sorry to hear you are going through this with your husband. I'd advise the first thing to do is find a doctor who is an expert on Hep C and the liver, a Heptologist would be best. If you can't find one, I'd get a Gastroentrologist.

If he doesn't stop alcohol, things will go downhill but if he does stop, he has a shot at improving his health. From your description it sounds like the situation is dire, he MUST stop the alcohol now. It is never a good idea to drink with Hep C, if he has been drinking the whole time knowing he has Hep C. It seems he really needs some help in stopping drinking, clearly he isn't having any success stopping on his own. Maybe with some support he can make it. AA has helped millions of people.

I suggest YOU get some help with this, Im sure this is extremely hard on you, if I was in your shoes I'd contact AA and see if you can get in their support group for families of alcoholics. It will help you so much. Best of luck to you and please stay in touch.

[jmjm530]

If your husband doesn't stop drinking completely at this point, it sounds like things could become quite serious and maybe soon. No disrespect, but it's not a matter of "we shall see" it could be a matter of his life.

As suggested earlier, a few things have to happen right away. First, he has to stop drinking and will need professional help, not just a promise to himself or to you. And second, he needs to be assessed right away by a liver specialist (hepatologist). You can usually find them in your larger, teaching hospitals.
Lastly, as mentioned, you should seek some professional help for yourself, both to be better able to help your husband as well as deal with the stress you must be feeling over the whole situation.

All the best,

-- Jim

[Jade318]

To adress the things i over looked. No the interferon treatments didnt work. After 6 weeks of treatment he began becoming extremely depressed almost suicidel Yes he has active HVC.AA, for real this man has been thru it twice already and still drinks. Anytime i suggest it he laughs at me and says it never helped the first two times. I have seen him go from a gorgeous healthy man to a weakened man over the period of 4 1/2 years. He refuses treatment unless he thinks he is dying right then . (vomitting,severe fatigue,diareha)I will let you all know he has the nastiest smell to his urine you can smell it across the house. Hepatologist. He said forget it. He whines I cant afford it or our insurance wont cover it. He drank severely up to a twelve pack a day for the years we have been together. only quit for 2 months here recently because it made me cry that he was doing that to himself. so if i am to prepare for the end i guess i need to start. He is in self destructive mode i believe.

[Forseegood]

Hi, it sounds like your hubby is a hard case, addiction is an extremely troubling disease for many people, but I know my sister's bottom was lower then your husbands, she was in intensive care for liver and kidney failure from drinking and drugs and was given a very low percentage, think 5% to live, and was in the hospital in intensive care for a long time...and yet, she managed to pull though and she's walking a few miles a day now, and has stayed off of alcohol for 4 years now...she's lucky and we're lucky...

I'd maybe get some pictures of people with liver failure or in End Stage Liver Disease off the net, and some information about this, he probably is in real denial about all of this...do something to shock him into purposeful reaction if you can...

He sounds like he might actually need rehab or something stronger then just meetings at this point, maybe call the nearest rehab facility and talk to them, they might be able to give you some kind of guidance...though of course you know that it will be ultimately up to him what he *ultimately* does or doesn't do...

What I think, and this is just my own opinion, is that you really need to find some really good Al-Anon meetings, (find one you really like and feel comfortable with, not every one meeting fits everybody's tastes) I don't know if you've ever been to this program, but it is excellent for someone who is in your position, someone married or deeply involved with a struggling alcoholic and/or drug addict...

Sometimes, when the person involved with the alcoholic....parent, husband, wife or brother or sister, changes "their" behavior towards the alcoholic...the alcoholic sometimes is freed up from all the guilt and emotions that help keeping them stuck into the behavior (course, these aren't the only reasons keeping them addicted, but every little bit helps)...

Also, it is an excellent program to help you handle all the stress, emotional pain and fallout, etc...that you enivitably have to go through in being married to an alcoholic, finding other people going through what YOU are going through can be very healing, you won't feel so all alone with this...just my opinions and I wish you and your hubby the best of luck with this...

[Jade318]

He was an alcoholic way before he met me. he is 50 i am just turning 37. But i took the bull by the horns today and got him hooked back up with the VA. They can help him where as i may not be able to. I did however take a long relieving breath of fresh air. I talked to him today and told him he is welcomed to live how he wishes but i wont have it around me or my children. Sometimes love isnt enough. He has no excuses to not get medical treatment now. I went out today and I purchased a sign that hangs on my front door and back door. It says NO ALCOHOL ALLOWED.  Then i dumped every bit of the beer he had. I told him if he wanted to die do it on someone elses watch and in someone elses home. Yes i got tough with him and shocked the **** out of him.I have finally had enough of it. I am not his first wife . But we are the only family he has left. I called the one brother he has and his child but its like talking to a brick wall because they all are alcoholics. I deal with death day in and day out at work. I dont want to deal with it here at home. So now he is in a sulking mode because i made sure they only chance he has to get alcohol is by asking me for it. I wont let him have it. Nor will i purchase it. I don't drink and i dont like it around me or my children. So I have put my foot down and if it comes down to me putting him out of my home i will know peace and tranquility again. Enough is enough. AND I HAVE HAD ENOUGH.

[whoaisme]

I think I would find another doctor  aka giddyup

[Kalio1]

I think you would be helped so much by calling AlAnon. That is for people who have alcoholic family members, spouses, etc. Dealing with an alcoholic and getting the support YOU ( and the kids living with an alcoholic) in dealing with this. They will support you in your stance that you will not allow the alcohol to rule your life any more and you will not enable him to use on your watch. If he uses, I'd say you have to act and stick to your guns. He drinks. he goes.

If he stays clean, he has a fighting chance.
Best of luck to you, stay strong.

[wyntre9]

I was really moved by your story.  It's so heartbreaking watching someone you care about harming themselves.

You sound very brave.  I wish you the best and I hope your husband get the help he needs.

[cantlivenotknowing]

Wow. I really feel for you and I hope your husband finds a way out of his addiction so he can focus on living. Alcoholism is a disease of the mind, body and spirit. Exerting self will upon himself to stop is an exercise in futility. He must change his way of thinking and he must find a power greater than himself, but he has to want to live first. AA is a great place to start, the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. That doesn't mean he won't relapse. Relapsers are welcome at AA, for many it is part of the process to getting to long term sobriety.  

[cantlivenotknowing]

Wow. I really feel for you and I hope your husband finds a way out of his addiction so he can focus on living. Alcoholism is a disease of the mind, body and spirit. Exerting self will upon himself to stop is an exercise in futility. He must change his way of thinking and he must find a power greater than himself, but he has to want to live first. AA is a great place to start, the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. That doesn't mean he won't relapse. Relapsers are welcome at AA, for many it is part of the process to getting to long term sobriety.  

[Kalio1]

It really is, and you are so disempowered to do anything. I really feel for you Jade, but alcoholics can ONLY use those who allow it. You are on the right track and taking charge of the part you can control and that is to not expose yourself or the kids to that. You can love someone and what to help them but it does NO GOOD if they aren't working towards that same goal.

If you in any way make it easier for him to drink, by buying it or allowing it in the house then you are "enabling" him so it makes it so stressful on the sober person because they love you and care about your well being. Sadly, no amount of love can "fix" alcoholism. Only a determination to beat it and a good, consistent support system of other alcoholics or rehab has shown to help people beat it, I hope and pray he can reach out and get the help he needs.

[Kalio1]

It really is, and you are so disempowered to do anything. I really feel for you Jade, but alcoholics can ONLY use those who allow it. You are on the right track and taking charge of the part you can control and that is to not expose yourself or the kids to that. You can love someone and what to help them but it does NO GOOD if they aren't working towards that same goal.

If you in any way make it easier for him to drink, by buying it or allowing it in the house then you are "enabling" him so it makes it so stressful on the sober person because they love you and care about your well being. Sadly, no amount of love can "fix" alcoholism. Only a determination to beat it and a good, consistent support system of other alcoholics or rehab has shown to help people beat it, I hope and pray he can reach out and get the help he needs.

[Jade318]

I myself am from the south. I have an ass. in paramedic and an ass. in psycology. I have 3 wonderful sons. I have a alcoholic for a husband. Its like a pattern i keep repeating.  As far as the Alanon i have researched them and i am looking into them. I have decided my best move is to see what happens between the 15th and 5th of next month i made him an apointment with the VA hospital they have a hepatologist there on staff. HE goes on the 5th of next month. Was the soonest i could get. He has agreed to go. He also has agreed to attend next Tuesays AA group meeting. He also has agreed to psycological evaluation by a proffesional psyciatrist.
No we don't have to know liver enzyme values. Someone stated i was brave or appeared brave. I have learned to be brave through the diversities in my life and events that have taken place. I just know that i Love him more than i love life itself. But i think love isnt enough anymore.

[Forseegood]

you sound like a very interesting, very strong woman, who is willing to use all her "inner resources" in dealing with a crisis...maybe look up a lot of these concepts if you haven't already?

Like *enabling* and what it does to the alcoholic...there's tons of info on this on the net...enabling can help keep an alcoholic in denial, keep them resentful, take away their self-worth, make them feel worse about themselves and add to their guilt and shame, etc etc...

Once they are forced out into the cold of their own reality, they can either pick themselves up and go seek help, or get worse...many times they opt to seek help...but if they are constantly *enabled* what is their incentive to get any better? They know they can just keep up the status quo without anything changing, and one of the scariest things for an alcoholic is change...

To highlight a completely different circumstance, but a great example of *enabling* is a situation I have with the 17 year old girl I take care of...the reason I take care of her (she lives with me and I support her and care for her) is because her parents are both alcoholics, drug addicts...her grandparents (her father's parents) are retired now, and they are financially comfortable, though not wealthy by any means...

But his parents pay for her father's apt, pay his expenses, bail him out of jail on the rare occasion, etc etc...he's 48? They not only do this for their son, but they do it for the ex-daughter-in-law, the girl's mother, also 48...they pay for her gas, her car payments, they give her a relatively free apt in their apt building, and pay for her cell and land line phone...

They even pay for her apt to get cleaned, or they clean it themselves! They say they do this out of *love* and that they never want to see *these two* out on the *street*, but of course, these kindly, well meaning people are helping to keep them both addicted...

What incentive do either of them have as grown adults? to be responsible and take care of themselves? Any money they can get from their low end jobs they can freely spend on booze, drugs and ciggaretts...or irresponsible shopping...and they've been doing this for years and years and these two are now showing the signs of years of alcoholism and drug addiction...

If all this largesse would suddenly be cut off, these two would have to scramble to get themselves together, and either sink or swim, but at least they would have a chance...because they are just slowly sinking now with no chance, with no end in sight...as long as these elderly people live, they will keep these two grown adults sinking into their addiction...they think they are being *charitable* and good people....and they don't realize the disservice they are doing to these two....

If anybody needed al-anon it's these two elderly folks, but they are so old school, I doubt they'd go...they think you should only help, help, help...anyway, sorry for the venting, you probably can see my discontent, but because of these two people, I'm having to raise a great kid, who should be living with good parents...but such is life, we have to do what we can, and also know when to back off...

[Jade318]

CAN WE SAY BULL BUTTER~! I REFUSE TO BAIL ANYONE OUT OF JAIL. INCLUDING HIM. SORRY BUT THAT MONEY IS BEST USED ELSE WHERE. THAT IS ENABLIGN BY  BAILING THEM OUT TIME AFTER TIME AFTER TIME ITS LIKE SAYING ITS OK TO BE A DRUNK ADN BREAK THE LAW. HE WENT BACK TO WORK TODAY.  BUT STILL FATIGUED. HERE A BIT OF HISTORY ON HIM, AT AGE 14 HE STARTED DRINKING BY 21 HE JOINED THE NAVY. BY AGE 37 HE WAS DISCHARGED DUE TO HYPERTENTION SERVICE RELATED THATS WHEN HE WAS OFFICALLY  DIAGNOSED. HERE IS WHAT DRIVES ME MAD ABOUT HIM. HE THINKS I DONT CARE HE THINKS I DONT LOVE HIM ~! SHEESH. AND I FAINTED YESTERDAY WHEN HE POKED HIS HEAD OUT OF THE DOOR AND SAID THANK YOU FOR HELPING ME. THAT WAS A FIRST. I TOLD HIM I LOVED YOU FROM HELLO AND I WILL LOVE YOU UNTIL I SEE YOU AGAIN. ITS NOT ENOUGH. HE IS SO SICK AND I SEE HIM FADING BEFORE ME AND I CANT EVEN WITH ALL MY TRAINING AND SCHOOLING DO ANYTHING TO MAKE IT BETTER. THAT GRIPES MY BUTTOCKS THERE. I CAN HELP OTHERS AND MAKE THEM BETTER BUT THERE IS NOTHING I CAN DO TO HELP HIM. I AM BEATING MYSELF UP AT THIS POINT YES. I AM MAD AT MYSELF FOR EVER GETTING INVOLVED WITH HIM AND MAKING MYSELF GO THRU THIS. I AM MAD AT MYSELF FOR NOT BEING ABLE TO DO MORE FOR HIM. I WANT HIM TO REST AND HEAL  I WANT TO GIVE HIM THE MOON THE EARTH AND STARS ON A SILVER PLATTER. BUT THATS JUST NOT REASONABLE. I JUST WISH THERE WAS MORE I COULD DO. GOD I SWARE I HAVE NEVER BEEN SO EMOTIONALLY TORMENTED ABOUT SOMEONE LIKE I AM NOW.  WHAT DO I DO GOD I FEEL SO DAGUM HOPELESS AND USELESS. I HAVE CRIED TODAY AND CAN'T HELP IT. I AM LOOSING HALF OF ME AND MY BEST FRIEND. THAT HURTS MORE THAN I CAN EXPRESS. AND I KNOW I AM. I AM TO WELL TRAINED NOT TO KNOW THESE THINGS.  OK NOW THAT I HAVE VENTED ON YOU WE ARE EVEN.

[Willy50]

Not much to add except the replies show great understanding of the disease of alcoholism and how it affects those in the sphere of alcoholic behavior.  We become enmeshed in another persons life; so enmeshed that we lose ours.  In the end we really have no control over the other person and their disease.  As mentioned when we try to protect, support, and buffer the alcoholic from the consequences of their disease and their actions we often experience the opposite effect from what we intended.  Many people require hitting rock bottom, and often several times before they can link the results to their actions.  Preventing those so necessary consequences can simply delay people getting help.

A HCV positive person who has a chronic drinking problem is in effect slowly (and maybe not even so slowly) committing suicide.  If you think it isn't pretty now...... you ain't seen nothing yet.  This person needs 1) possible detox  2) psych evaluation 3) AA   4) a physical which reveals the extent of the liver damage and prognosis.   A true alcoholic is not going to want any of the 4 things; it would connect their actions to their consequences.  Most alcoholics do not want to see that.  It's why the disease is often called a disease of perception.  It's also called a family disease.  That means you in your own right are sick too....... and who wouldn't be watching a loved one slowly spiral down unable to help them?

You could be living this same and progressively worse pattern of living till he dies from drinking while infected with HCV.  If he can't stop drinking it is unlikely he will have success with TX as it exists now.  You can see where this can end.

Take an action to help save YOUR life; get counseling and attend Al-Anon.  You will find your life gets better.  As a side consequence you may also see your loved one learn to care for himself when you start caring for yourself better.  As an added benefit....... when your kids (did they grow up in an alcoholic home?) start throwing you curveballs......you may find that the program helps you in many ways other than where you origionally intended.

Best wishes,
Willy  (seven years in Al-Anon in July)

[nygirl7]

Liver enzymes are elevated when the liver is dying.

When a liver cell dies it releases an enzyme.  So the more enzymes released the higher the number meaning more cells are dying.

As an alcoholic I know how hard it can be to stop drinking.  But one I found out that I had stage 3 liver damage due to drinking WITH the virus (which really really magnifies each drinks damage like a billion times) I saw what I was doing to myself.

When I WANTED to drink I took out this little drawing of a picture of liver damage stages and looked at how far along I was.  It helped me to put down the drink (even though I had been sober for some time - I still get urges every once in a while).

I hope that your husband is able to process that what he is doing is really equivalent to putting a needle full of poison straight into his arm and expecting that his heart doesn't blow up.  Or better yet = playing Russian Roulette with a gun.

Eventually he WILL die if he doesn't completely stop.  It's just a matter of time.

I'm very sorry that you are going through this but he either wants to live or he doesn't.  You have to help him see that.

[Forseegood]

Willy50: don't want to compliment someone on THIS thread per se, but I just have to sit back and say what a beautifully articulated statement of the power and grace of al-anon...you said it all in your post...I KNOW you had to go through a lot of blood-sweat-and-tears to get that knowledge and grace....to use a hackneyed old saying we've all heard before many times....THANKS FOR SHARING! I hope that Jade reads your post over many times, and gets herself to an al-anon meeting as soon as she can, she could save her sanity now when she needs it most...

Jade:

once you learn in al-anon what it *means* to be an alcoholic, how alcoholics play very manipulative games with their co-s, knowingly and sometimes unknowingly...as telling you you no longer love him...He knows dang well that you love him, he's counting on this very fact and he's using it against you to help keep him in the status quo, he's scared to death of having to change....

This is a way to keep you addicted to his drama and most alcoholics will use everything they can think of to keep you *crazy in love* and at THEIR bidding, nothing scares them more then changing their intinerary, their habits, their circumstances, unless it's *their* changes, and not necessarily *good* changes...

They sometimes can be almost sadistic is this, and it's very sad...save your *all caps* post, there will be a day where you'll see where this might have been YOUR low point, but please go to al-anon, it will get better...sometimes it might not make your situation any better, no one can tell you that for sure (though it might), and I'm no fortune teller....

But at the very least you'll *feel* better about what is going on around you...(and that's a very good thing when you are suffering as you are now) and god knows you need this support right now, youre going through one of the hardest, most emotionally difficult things any human being can go through, youre right there in the front seat watching someone you dearly love go down....

Please know I'm not saying he is a monster, or not capable of changing for the better, he's a human being but he's very sick right now, in his emotions, his soul, his body...and only cold reality *might* make him better...cause obviously he's not looking at things realistically, or he wouldn't be doing this...

You know who will be the first to readily admit to much of this??? A recovering alcoholic with good sobriety...talk to one of them, they will tell you about all of this, because they know the behavior so well, although, to be fair, not every alcoholic does this to their co's, but many, many do...best of luck to you, please find some help, if not in al-anon (though they are experts at this) at least from somewhere else, be it therapy, your church, where ever...be well...

[Jade318]

so sorry the all caps wasnt yelling it was because i couldn't find my glasses and i couldn't see properly. HEH~! i always lay things right here to be able to locate them again then i forget where right here is.lol.SMILING because today i took a walk in the garden and i wasn't alone i had my heveanly father carryring me and my burdons. So there is my inner strength. thank you all whom have psted i am fixing to give another post about lab findings i have a copy of the results.

[Forseegood]

hey, sorry if I came off too *preachy* ...let's just say I have an intimate knowledge of the pain youre going through right now, and I know what worked for me and many other people I know...please don't be afraid that Al-anon is going to TELL YOU what to do or how to handle yourself or your situation....that's not what it's about.....it's about educating and supporting, ultimately, you do what you feel comfortable doing....

and I wish you and your hubby all the best...although I must say, that I'll breathe a little sigh of relief in your case, once I see your *husband* taking care of himself, and finding out all *he* can about this disease and it's treatments....and *his* frame in AA or something similar - getting help for both diseases he has, that will be true progress for him...once again, wishing you guys all the best...

[Willy50]

Thanks for the kind words, Foreseegood.  I've read many of your posts, I've appreciated them also, and it's very nice to meet you.

Jade, I put off going to Al-Anon.  I didn't want to go.  I didn't think I had the time.  I didn't think it could help; yadda yadda yadda.  It didn't do what I wanted it to do; fix anothers drinking and save my marriage.  In some respects though, it saved my life.

I was not able to save my marriage.  It ended and my ex has continued to drink and may always.  When we got divorced I had to buy life insurance so that the kids would have something if I were to die.  Guess what?  I barely passed my medical exams because I had elevated liver enzymes.  HCV.

If I had been given my wish I would still be in that marriage.  I'd probably still be drinking (just light drinking but any is too much with HCV)  I probably wouldn't be diagnosed.  I'd still be in a pressure cooker of a marriage.  

I didn't get what I wanted; I got something much better.

If you are helped by this thread......or others here....... it is that same kind of willingness to help ones brothers and sisters that drives 12 step groups.  They are not for everybody but they may be worth a try.  It takes some time but the price is right and I honestly believe you get something in meetings that you can't get anywhere else (except maybe in forums like this one).  : )

Best wishes
Willy