Aa
forum quality
Has the quality of this forum diminished in the last 6 months,(since stars) or has tx just made me moody and intolerable to others
here’s a great thought:
"the letter of the law kills, but the spirit of the law brings life."
Folks with this condition need friends AND forbearance, not constant censorship.
We need to think for ourselves,
post for ourselves not for others,
and not to believe it when someone tries to degrade others privately.
Folks who try to degrade and practice character assassination are the only ones who win when others listen to their angst. Hatred breeds more hatred but some folks need to learn not to listen to it. Mark those who cause discord, publically or privately and have nothing to do with their darkness.
But here’s my own though on the subject:
Simply put,
Forbearance is a learned art one cements in the cauldron of adversity.
Personal remarks sometimes will be made, but.
We as patients need to learn to have grace and mercy towards one another, we need
to learn to forgive, just as we desire for ourselves that forgiveness, we can grow sometimes even from things that may hurt.
I would rather be growing in a tough environment than be a hothouse tomato who will wither at the slightest hint of a storm.
My plea is that MedHelp would allow us to practice this, please, I'm begging you.
We are grown ups….let us work it out.
mb
"the letter of the law kills, but the spirit of the law brings life."
Folks with this condition need friends AND forbearance, not constant censorship.
We need to think for ourselves,
post for ourselves not for others,
and not to believe it when someone tries to degrade others privately.
Folks who try to degrade and practice character assassination are the only ones who win when others listen to their angst. Hatred breeds more hatred but some folks need to learn not to listen to it. Mark those who cause discord, publically or privately and have nothing to do with their darkness.
But here’s my own though on the subject:
Simply put,
Forbearance is a learned art one cements in the cauldron of adversity.
Personal remarks sometimes will be made, but.
We as patients need to learn to have grace and mercy towards one another, we need
to learn to forgive, just as we desire for ourselves that forgiveness, we can grow sometimes even from things that may hurt.
I would rather be growing in a tough environment than be a hothouse tomato who will wither at the slightest hint of a storm.
My plea is that MedHelp would allow us to practice this, please, I'm begging you.
We are grown ups….let us work it out.
mb
If tx hasn't made you moody and intolerant to others, you're not doing it right.
How's that for an undocumented opinion, unbacked with a double blind study?
ha ha , i must be doing it all wrong
How's that for an undocumented opinion, unbacked with a double blind study?
ha ha , i must be doing it all wrong
easy i just shout when they cant hear!
usually i am a calm person tx has made me intolerable but i dont freak out ( yet)
x
usually i am a calm person tx has made me intolerable but i dont freak out ( yet)
x
If tx hasn't made you moody and intolerant to others, you're not doing it right.
How's that for an undocumented opinion, unbacked with a double blind study?
How's that for an undocumented opinion, unbacked with a double blind study?
The dvisiveness and bickering are issues separate from 'information qualiity' though they usually become intertwined. You may find the bickering distasteful or amusing, but it's the intentionally devisive behaviour that usually requires some sort of intervention - if the members are unable or unwilling to deal with it themselves, then someone generally yells for the moderator.
Quality of information is something we have to deal with ourselves, since MedHelp washes their hands of the issue with their disclaimer. There is always bad or questionable 'advice' being offered here. Some of it gets parroted unquestioned for months or even years before someone challenges it. It bothers me more to see someone high dosing themselves uneccessarily with ribavirin just because that worked for another patient or worrying themselves sick(er) trying to fnd a 'hepatologist' (they can be found at your larger teaching hospitals, dontcha know) when an experienced gastro could handle their case just fine. Who knows how many patients put themselves in danger or had to discontinue tx because "hit it hard and fast" *sounded* right and was all the fad here several years ago?
The clashing personalities and tasteless posts will always be here. It sux a lot of energy but can be ignored. When people stop questioning the things that *sound* right but have little or no basis in fact is when this site actually becomes dangerous.
Quality of information is something we have to deal with ourselves, since MedHelp washes their hands of the issue with their disclaimer. There is always bad or questionable 'advice' being offered here. Some of it gets parroted unquestioned for months or even years before someone challenges it. It bothers me more to see someone high dosing themselves uneccessarily with ribavirin just because that worked for another patient or worrying themselves sick(er) trying to fnd a 'hepatologist' (they can be found at your larger teaching hospitals, dontcha know) when an experienced gastro could handle their case just fine. Who knows how many patients put themselves in danger or had to discontinue tx because "hit it hard and fast" *sounded* right and was all the fad here several years ago?
The clashing personalities and tasteless posts will always be here. It sux a lot of energy but can be ignored. When people stop questioning the things that *sound* right but have little or no basis in fact is when this site actually becomes dangerous.
I see it going on here too. I simply disagree that the CAUSE of it is the stricter mediating. I rather think that the stricter mediating is BECAUSE of that behaviour - the personal insults, rudeness and namecalling...and worse... rather than the other way around and, again, I say that if we don't want the hammer coming down then we should refrain from such behaviour.
"Please explain how that is justified in ANY way? Insults, rudeness and namecalling is taking things to a personal level that doesn't belong here. You can disagree with what somebody says without resorting to character assassination, insults and rudeness."
You seem to misunderstand my post. I'm not arguing in favor of it. I cannot justify it. I don't participate in it. But it is what I see going on here.
You seem to misunderstand my post. I'm not arguing in favor of it. I cannot justify it. I don't participate in it. But it is what I see going on here.
"I truly believe that the tighter moderation is leading to the increasing "insults, rudeness, name calling, etc."
I don't think tighter moderation has anything whatsoever to do with increasing insults, rudeness, name calling, etc. There isn't really any justification or necessity to do ANY of that, regardless of tight OR loose moderation. It serves no purpose whatsoever. Please explain how that is justified in ANY way? Insults, rudeness and namecalling is taking things to a personal level that doesn't belong here. You can disagree with what somebody says without resorting to character assassination, insults and rudeness. For too long now, i've seen some pretty nasty tactics used when disagreeing with what somebody says that gets far too personal and I've seen some people targetted mercilessly any time they post. There is simply no justification for it.
If people don't want strict moderating then they should regulate themselves better. I always gave my kids plenty of rope and only yanked back on it when they weren't taking personal responsibility for their actions, forcing me to step in. If people want to get back to discussing topics and being able to disagree then simply set aside personal dislikes and stick to debating the topics and facts without using those topical disagreements to venge personal dislikes.
I don't think tighter moderation has anything whatsoever to do with increasing insults, rudeness, name calling, etc. There isn't really any justification or necessity to do ANY of that, regardless of tight OR loose moderation. It serves no purpose whatsoever. Please explain how that is justified in ANY way? Insults, rudeness and namecalling is taking things to a personal level that doesn't belong here. You can disagree with what somebody says without resorting to character assassination, insults and rudeness. For too long now, i've seen some pretty nasty tactics used when disagreeing with what somebody says that gets far too personal and I've seen some people targetted mercilessly any time they post. There is simply no justification for it.
If people don't want strict moderating then they should regulate themselves better. I always gave my kids plenty of rope and only yanked back on it when they weren't taking personal responsibility for their actions, forcing me to step in. If people want to get back to discussing topics and being able to disagree then simply set aside personal dislikes and stick to debating the topics and facts without using those topical disagreements to venge personal dislikes.
Preach sista!!!!!! ;)
Emily please understand that nobody is saying anything against you. It's just that feeling where adults are being treated like children and being made to sit in a corner when we used to be able to handle things and work them out, now just go unresolved and so feelings dont go away.
I think personally we used to be much less babylike when we couldn't anonymously hit 'report this' and there was some culpability behind what you said.
As you know, when I have a problem I generally send it from my email so that you know it's legitimate (and how often do I do that?). But when people have too much latitude they can just report people because their name begins with an N or something (used my own letter so as not to make an insult to anyone else accidentally).
Then someone comes in and has no idea what has gone on behind the scenes and bam - the wrong persons posts are taken down and warned etc. and feelings are REALLY hurt. Counter productive.
I think it helps people be more grown up when they HAVE to stand behind what they say. I hate the report button and think it is the worst feature ever installed. Even worse than 'stars' and 'bestestest answerererers' - that is petty stuff comparitavely to me.
:-O
Thanks for listening.
Emily please understand that nobody is saying anything against you. It's just that feeling where adults are being treated like children and being made to sit in a corner when we used to be able to handle things and work them out, now just go unresolved and so feelings dont go away.
I think personally we used to be much less babylike when we couldn't anonymously hit 'report this' and there was some culpability behind what you said.
As you know, when I have a problem I generally send it from my email so that you know it's legitimate (and how often do I do that?). But when people have too much latitude they can just report people because their name begins with an N or something (used my own letter so as not to make an insult to anyone else accidentally).
Then someone comes in and has no idea what has gone on behind the scenes and bam - the wrong persons posts are taken down and warned etc. and feelings are REALLY hurt. Counter productive.
I think it helps people be more grown up when they HAVE to stand behind what they say. I hate the report button and think it is the worst feature ever installed. Even worse than 'stars' and 'bestestest answerererers' - that is petty stuff comparitavely to me.
:-O
Thanks for listening.
While I don't disagree with you, I'd like to point out that the rules are being enforced with a great deal more strictness than they were in the past. I was digging through the archives and found this:
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Hepatitis-C/Ever-Been-Tempted/show/88011?personal_page_id=10#post_611075
I was attacked by several people (this was back in 2004) and there were also those who came to my rescue. The fact that the thread still exists points to a looser moderation. (Although there are missing points--my understanding is that when members are banned their prior posts disappear which is what turns some of the old threads into swiss cheese.)
I think it's a more interesting and useful conversation with the comments intact.
I have read the Terms of Use many times and in spite of how they are quoted as an absolute, they are still open for interpretation. As far as I can tell, the items that are usually invoked are:
6. Posting material that is unlawful, obscene, derogatory, defamatory, threatening, harassing, abusive, slanderous, hateful, or embarrassing to any other person or entity as determined by MedHelp in its sole discretion.
17. Engaging in any other conduct that restricts or inhibits any other person from using or enjoying the Public Area or the Site, or which, in the judgment of MedHelp, exposes MedHelp or any of its customers, partners or suppliers to any liability or detriment of any type.
Since the enforcement is at MH's discretion that gives a lot of latitude in how strictly or loosely conversations are restricted.
I truly believe that the tighter moderation is leading to the increasing "insults, rudeness, name calling, etc."
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Hepatitis-C/Ever-Been-Tempted/show/88011?personal_page_id=10#post_611075
I was attacked by several people (this was back in 2004) and there were also those who came to my rescue. The fact that the thread still exists points to a looser moderation. (Although there are missing points--my understanding is that when members are banned their prior posts disappear which is what turns some of the old threads into swiss cheese.)
I think it's a more interesting and useful conversation with the comments intact.
I have read the Terms of Use many times and in spite of how they are quoted as an absolute, they are still open for interpretation. As far as I can tell, the items that are usually invoked are:
6. Posting material that is unlawful, obscene, derogatory, defamatory, threatening, harassing, abusive, slanderous, hateful, or embarrassing to any other person or entity as determined by MedHelp in its sole discretion.
17. Engaging in any other conduct that restricts or inhibits any other person from using or enjoying the Public Area or the Site, or which, in the judgment of MedHelp, exposes MedHelp or any of its customers, partners or suppliers to any liability or detriment of any type.
Since the enforcement is at MH's discretion that gives a lot of latitude in how strictly or loosely conversations are restricted.
I truly believe that the tighter moderation is leading to the increasing "insults, rudeness, name calling, etc."
We don't discourage disagreements. We don't allow personal insults, rudeness, name calling, etc. It is entirely possible to disagree with respect.
When you joined (and you meaning the general you, not you personally), you agreed to adhere to the Terms of Use. (There is a link at the bottom of every page for anyone who needs/wants to review them.) They include a section on posting in public forums.
As this site is for support, please keep in mind that people aren't getting the support they need if there is fighting and personal issues being played out in public. We have PMs for people if something personal needs to be resolved.
Emily
When you joined (and you meaning the general you, not you personally), you agreed to adhere to the Terms of Use. (There is a link at the bottom of every page for anyone who needs/wants to review them.) They include a section on posting in public forums.
As this site is for support, please keep in mind that people aren't getting the support they need if there is fighting and personal issues being played out in public. We have PMs for people if something personal needs to be resolved.
Emily
Divisiveness and pettiness aren't a recent occurrence here. There has been crankiness, slamming, and nastiness on the boards ever since I joined in 2002. However, in the last year or so the boards have been moderated much more strictly. Now the posts are swept away so that board members are not allowed to resolve disagreements on their own. I think that has actually added to the hostile environment many of us now find here. I do believe there's a lot of "testing the limits" (as my mother would have called it). When you couple that with the "abuse" button (which didn't use to exist) and trigger-happy mods, you end up with something similar to the Duck Shoot at a carnival, with posts disappearing seemingly at random, especially since posts that are "abusive" (in some folks opinion) aren't the only posts taken down, but others are as well. Collateral damage they call it.
And it truly *is* damage. These boards are very damaged. Disagreements (healthy or otherwise) are discouraged, which restricts conversation flow and resolution. In many cases there is no "absolute" answer. Even the "best answer" designation we now have is *totally* subjective and could actually be the *worst* answer of all.
Yes, it does take courage to post, especially for newbies but I think that is normal for an internet forum. And there's nothing wrong with checking to see if something has been answered many times already before it's asked again. The caveat is to make sure the discussion is somewhat recent since the understanding of HCV changes all the time as new studies are completed and data is interpreted.
I think some of the difficulty lies in what people expect from a "support" forum. First off, I've never seen that word used by MH itself in it's description of the forum on this side or the other, but that seems to be what people expect none-the-less. Support can come in many ways. Are people looking for emotional support? Information to help with side effects? Encouragement to hold the course and stay on treatment? Suggestions and advice for decision at a critical juncture of tx? Help getting off of substances and out of denial that they have HCV? etc., etc. Since not everyone needs the same thing from this place or even sees it's purpose the same, there's going to be some disagreement, and that's okay. The only way to solve that would be to have the board completely moderated and that would change it's character to the point that we wouldn't even recognize it.
If there was one thing I wished for these boards it would be for folks to take a moment (sometimes a very long one) before they hit send on their posts and for the moderators to take that same moment (sometimes a very long one) before they let themselves be free with the delete button, and also for them to trust the members to work things out on their own. (Okay maybe that's two things.)
Pax...
And it truly *is* damage. These boards are very damaged. Disagreements (healthy or otherwise) are discouraged, which restricts conversation flow and resolution. In many cases there is no "absolute" answer. Even the "best answer" designation we now have is *totally* subjective and could actually be the *worst* answer of all.
Yes, it does take courage to post, especially for newbies but I think that is normal for an internet forum. And there's nothing wrong with checking to see if something has been answered many times already before it's asked again. The caveat is to make sure the discussion is somewhat recent since the understanding of HCV changes all the time as new studies are completed and data is interpreted.
I think some of the difficulty lies in what people expect from a "support" forum. First off, I've never seen that word used by MH itself in it's description of the forum on this side or the other, but that seems to be what people expect none-the-less. Support can come in many ways. Are people looking for emotional support? Information to help with side effects? Encouragement to hold the course and stay on treatment? Suggestions and advice for decision at a critical juncture of tx? Help getting off of substances and out of denial that they have HCV? etc., etc. Since not everyone needs the same thing from this place or even sees it's purpose the same, there's going to be some disagreement, and that's okay. The only way to solve that would be to have the board completely moderated and that would change it's character to the point that we wouldn't even recognize it.
If there was one thing I wished for these boards it would be for folks to take a moment (sometimes a very long one) before they hit send on their posts and for the moderators to take that same moment (sometimes a very long one) before they let themselves be free with the delete button, and also for them to trust the members to work things out on their own. (Okay maybe that's two things.)
Pax...
hey Dj don't sweat it too much as we all can tell you here it's just the internet so don't let it get to you - nobody on an internet forum should be able to upset you that much, treatment or not. Save that for your spouse or partner - thats their job ;) :-O (just kidding, making sure that is clear!)
I've been watching this site become less & less friendly & petty for some time. I hope things can turn around. I don't see new people sticking around much anymore either,I wonder if there is a connection?
This is supposed to be a Hep C SUPPORT forum. Not where someone can indulge themselves in taking out their personal dislikes on someone in ways that destroy the fabric of the forum in ways that have nothing whatsoever to do with maintaining accuracy or providing support. We used to debate facts here. Now...we seem to debate people here and facts are secondary.
How do you cope with being moody and intolerable of people when on tx?
I work as a customer service/cashier at a retail store and after 10 years most people bug the heck out of me. Specially on "black friday"
My Dr. said I would probubly have bad days with people.
On the good side at least when I do start tx I will have an excuse.
I work as a customer service/cashier at a retail store and after 10 years most people bug the heck out of me. Specially on "black friday"
My Dr. said I would probubly have bad days with people.
On the good side at least when I do start tx I will have an excuse.
This is a general question. Please don't make it personal about any member, or members.
It is not appropriate to discuss other members in a public forum.
Thanks!
It is not appropriate to discuss other members in a public forum.
Thanks!
It does for everyone Diane - unfortunately that is one bad part of the internet unless you put hundreds of smiley faces and frowns and LOLs and stuff it's almost impossible to read the intention sometimes. Plenty of times the people who were the "oldtimers" back then hurt my feelings because I wasn't included in their special groups or in their conversations but...........I just plugged along because i wanted to be cured. It happens to EVERYONE this worldwide need for acceptance is a part of being human I think and a quality that keeps us together as a whole. Without it we'd be screwed.
:) ;) : ( : -O
:) ;) : ( : -O
I surely wouldn't want to be wrong about something, and not have anybody tell me. I think it is the way that it is said that gets to people.
We also have to be careful when comparing opinions. We can disagree with the opinion without insulting the person with the opinion. I am trying to teach myself to re-read my posts before I hit the "post Comment" button because I'm seeing that my "foot in mouth" disease extends to my computer too, and my knee jerk responses come out sounding sharper than I mean them too.
We also have to be careful when comparing opinions. We can disagree with the opinion without insulting the person with the opinion. I am trying to teach myself to re-read my posts before I hit the "post Comment" button because I'm seeing that my "foot in mouth" disease extends to my computer too, and my knee jerk responses come out sounding sharper than I mean them too.
It is very hurtful when people don't understand the horrible stuff you're going through.
But, like I always say - there's no pain like your pain.
Mike
But, like I always say - there's no pain like your pain.
Mike
I don't want to get dumped on for asking or saying something stupid."
Most of us are tempermental even on a good day but...feel free to ask whatever you want DJ it is why we are around and I promise we've all asked the same 'dumb' questions. Just search some of my early posts when I was still NYgirl without the 7........yeah not so smart and as I say I've had to admit I was wrong more than I was right. But I learned and that is what is important.
Most of us are tempermental even on a good day but...feel free to ask whatever you want DJ it is why we are around and I promise we've all asked the same 'dumb' questions. Just search some of my early posts when I was still NYgirl without the 7........yeah not so smart and as I say I've had to admit I was wrong more than I was right. But I learned and that is what is important.
yes, it has changed and not for the better. Thank goodness when I needed it was in early 2008 and things were so very much different.
There are no stupid questions as long as one does not ack like a know-it-all answering all the other questions.
Instead of stars , why not a tally of how many posts
There are no stupid questions as long as one does not ack like a know-it-all answering all the other questions.
Instead of stars , why not a tally of how many posts
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