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CONTACT AND HERPES

Seems like Dr. Hooks post to "Virgin with Positive HSV-2" indicates that
clinicians have reported genital herpes from rubbing.  This is scary for those
of us who like erotic massage.

Has anyone out there contacted  herpes this way?
Aunt Jesse, you work in a STD Clinic can you provide your
experience on this question:?
20 Responses
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Avatar universal
What Hook wrote doesn't contradict what grace wrote.

Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
SEE DR POSTING ON HSV ON THIGH, I COPIED YOUR RESEARCH TO Dr. HOOK.
HERE IS HIS REPLY

HSV lesions tend to occur in the same area as they originally occurred it.  there may be small variabiltiy as to where they occur but lesions occurring on the thigh are not going to recur on the genitals.  Genital recurrences follow genital lesions and are not due to some sort of spread from nerves innervating one part of the body to another.  EWH
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101028 tn?1419603004
I know that isn't the whole article brookdale but I hope it helps you realize why I say what I say ( and this isn't the only article - just the one I posted for the sake of this discussion ).

Now if you just were infected thru the thigh that still would go to the sacral nerve ganglia which is the same nerve group that supplies the anogenital area so it does have the potential to go down a nerve pathway to the anogenital area.  I think most folks are having foreplay along with their sex so unless you were absolutely positively sure that you contracted hsv thru just someone humping your thigh and not thru sex I'd still take full precautions at all times if that was the area of your lesions.  Same with there's a fine line between what is the sacral nerve area in the lower back and what is the lumbar area. In theory you could be infected in the lumbar area thru someone naked sitting on your back and rubbing all over you so that's a tough area to call.  You can get infected without actual penetration but the vast majority of folks are going to get infected thru foreplay and sex all during the same encounter so it's safer to assume that you were infected during sex and having lesions appear outside of the actual genital skin than it is to assume that you only were infected on the thigh or buttocks area and don't have to worry about infecting a partner without obvious lesions present.  Look at how many posters here are confused about lesions on the buttocks or the anal area because they say they've never had anal sex before as an example too.  

does that make better sense to you than before?

grace
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101028 tn?1419603004
Obstet Gynecol. 2006 Oct;108(4):947-52.

   Isolation of herpes simplex virus from the genital tract during symptomatic recurrence on the buttocks.  

  Kerkering K, Gardella C, Selke S, Krantz E, Corey L, Wald A.
    Department of Medicine, University of Washington, Seattle, Washington 98195, USA.

    OBJECTIVE: To estimate the frequency of isolation of herpes simplex virus (HSV) from the genital tract when recurrent herpes lesions were present on the buttocks.

METHODS: Data were extracted from a prospectively observed cohort attending a research clinic for genital herpes infections between 1975 and 2001. All patients with a documented herpes lesion on the buttocks, upper thigh or gluteal cleft ("buttock recurrence") and concomitant viral cultures from genital sites including the perianal region were eligible. RESULTS: We reviewed records of 237 subjects, 151 women and 86 men, with a total of 572 buttock recurrences. Of the 1,592 days with genital culture information during a buttock recurrence, participants had concurrent genital lesions on 311 (20%, 95% confidence interval [CI] 14-27%) of these days. Overall, HSV was isolated from the genital region on 12% (95% CI 8-17%) of days during a buttock recurrence. In the absence of genital lesions, HSV was isolated from the genital area on 7% (95% CI 4%-11%) of days during a buttock recurrence and, among women, from the vulvar or cervical sites on 1% of days.

CONCLUSION: Viral shedding of herpes simplex virus from the genital area is a relatively common occurrence during a buttock recurrence of genital herpes, even without concurrent genital lesions, reflecting perhaps reactivation from concomitant regions of the sacral neural ganglia. Patients with buttock herpes recurrences should be instructed about the risk of genital shedding during such recurrences. LEVEL OF EVIDENCE: II-2.
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Avatar universal
It's not a matter of "her" science or "their" science. Science is science. You can accept the research that we have, or you can continue to buy into magical thinking and believe whatever you want.

I wonder what is underlying your argumentative position on this. If it freaks you out to have "erotic massage" with people, don't do it. I think Hook in his smackdown of you already made it clear that you living your life this way is, frankly, ridiculous, but knock yourself out not having sexual contact with anybody. It's your call. Nobody is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to engage in any behavior you don't feel comfortable with. You take care, now.
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Avatar universal
Looks like you need to do more scientific research.
Look at Doctor's posting   HSV2 ON THIGH.

It talks about non-genial herpes breakout.  Does not appear to affect genitals nor is transmission to a partner as easy.  If I were you I would post a question to the Drs and see if your science has their backing.
Helpful - 0
101028 tn?1419603004
actually that article is wrong or rather I should say it's a little too simplistic.  You don't always get lesions at the same place. You don't always get lesions just at the site of entry of the virus either. It's also been proven thru various studies that you are also shedding the virus from the anogenital area regardless of the site of the infection and that folks get ob's on more than just area. I really don't make this stuff up and have very sound scientific backing for what I say.

grace

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Avatar universal
Doesn't take cajones, it takes pesos.  
GO FOR IT
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Avatar universal
LOL. Wonder if you have the cojones to take that one over to the doc side of the forum and let them respond to it.
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Avatar universal
Not sure you are correct. Herpes is seen at the site of entry and recurs at the site of entry
This is a quote from the site
http://www.acog.org/publications/patient_education/bp054.cfm


"The place where the sores appear is the original site where the virus entered your body. "
"Although herpes sores heal in days or weeks, herpes does not leave your body. The virus travels to nerve cells near your spine. It stays there until some event triggers a new bout. The virus then leaves its resting place and travels along the nerves, back to where it first entered the body. This can cause new blisters to occur"

Therefore herpes entering your buttocks or other part of the body, will occur at the same site.  If so, then if you have herpes on your buttocks, you do not have to worry about spreading it from your penis or vagina or mouth or any other part of the body!
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101028 tn?1419603004
When you are infected with the herpes virus it infects you thru the skin and then travels up the closet nerve to set up housekeeping so to say in the sacral nerve ganglia.  The sacral nerve ganglia supplies everywhere below the belt so when you have genital herpes - you already have it everywhere in the genital area regardless of where you get actual lesions at. The virus can reactivate and cause lesions anywhere below the waist but typically they are in the boxer short area as we call it.  You still shed the virus from the entire anogenital area when you have obvious lesions, regardless of where they are and periodically in between you also shed from the anogenital. So no - it is not preferable to have herpes lesions on the buttocks because you are still contagious from the genitals.

grace
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Avatar universal
So if someone has herpes on their butt, will the herpes spread to their penis or vagina?
Or is the only way they can spread it from open lisions on the butt.  

It seems that if you did get herpes on your buttocks, it would not be as big as deal as if it were on your genitals?
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Avatar universal
Looks like he got a smackdown from Hook. That was a great response. :)
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101028 tn?1419603004
or genital to leg, abdomen, buttock contact as Dr Hook already discussed in his reply in that thread.

grace
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207091 tn?1337709493
COMMUNITY LEADER
If they don't have an outbreak at that time, you won't get herpes from the skin on their butt or legs.  That is keratizined skin, and it doesn't shed.

This is why Grace said it requires genital to genital contact.

Aj
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Avatar universal
But isn't there also the chance of getting herpes from non-genital areas.  If someone has herpes on their legs or buttocks and rubs against your legs or buttocks you can also get herpes.

I am curious how often this happens?
Helpful - 0
101028 tn?1419603004
It does not take actual penetration to transmit either herpes or hpv. Direct skin on skin contact is what it takes which means if you are naked and someone else who is naked is rubbing their genital area all over your genital area - it's a risk.  

grace
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Avatar universal
"Quite alarming?" To whom? Maybe to you. Most people aren't going to get worked up about this. You can knock yourself out wearing the Hazmat suit during sex, though. Yeesh.

One of the reasons it's more difficult to acquire this way is because the skin of the buttocks, legs, and back is much tougher and impervious than the genital skin. It seems to me it  would take some real knock-down rubbing and skin contact to acquire an infection this way.

Also, you need to consider the enormous numbers of people with genital herpes who are unaware they are even infected, who are having plenty of unprotected sex and skin rubbing with their partners. This just isn't a likely scenario to happen all that often.

For pete's sake, we've got an international crisis here with the Keystone Kops in the White House attempting to rattle Russia's cage. Don't you have more important things to worry about than whether you can get herpes on your leg???

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Avatar universal
I am not concerned with the thread.
-Actually the point that clinicians have observed genital herpes that does not involve intercourse, anal, or oral is quite alarmiing.  We have to know if we are taking a risk when we get a massage and the girl's leg or buttocks may touch our back, butt, leg, etc.

How often is genital herpes observed in skin-to-skin contact that does not involve intercourse, anal, or oral?

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Avatar universal
Okay, I went over there and saw where you thread-jumped and barged into that thread with your comment.

If you read the entire thread over there, you will realize that Hook was describing this as a very unlikely way to transmit herpes. There was also a discussion that the guy's test was a false positive.

My personal feeling is that the guy in question is  zooming the broad who asked the question in the first place and that he probably has had some sexual experience. But that's just my opinion.

Nevertheless, your concerns appear pretty misplaced to me. Just forget about it.
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