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Herpes Antibodies
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Herpes Antibodies

Will herpes antibodies in your body prevent outbreaks (OB) from happening in a different
location on your body?  

There doesn't seem to be a clear answer to this, at least from the posts I have read.  Some people report to have
OBs happen in different parts of their body.  I'm wondering if this is psychological and not herpes related, and possibly
just a rash or fungus infection.    

In the following post, the Dr. suggests it is all pyschological, since the antibodies protect from OBs in a different area.

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/show/597879

Take for the following examples:

1.  If the man has an OB on the head of his penis, can he get another OB on the scrotum, or shaft?  

2.  If a woman gets an OB on the labia, can she get an OB on her anus, or her cervix.

Are these examples considered the same area (where the Nerves have the same ganglia)?


If the Dr is correct, then it is NOT possible to even spread HERPES to another part of the body, once antibodies are
present.   This means it is NOT possible to spread it from the Mouth to the Genitals, even if there was an OB in the mouth and you happened to touch your genitals with the virus and vice-versa.

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15 Comments Post a Comment
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Avatar_n_tn
I have even heard of people spreading HERPES to the EYES?   If this is true,
antibodies do not guarantee that it will not spread?  So is the DR.  incorrect?

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101028_tn?1348750963
After being infected for a few weeks you don't have to worry really about spreading the virus to other body parts. Ob's can happen naturally anywhere in the "boxer short" area - it's not spreading the virus. About 1/5 of folks get ob's in more than 1 location in the boxer short area with genital herpes. It's pretty common.

Just washing your hands after using the toilet or touching yourself intimately is all it takes.

Occular herpes in adults is almost always hsv1 and not hsv2.  It's usually related to the virus reactivating and going up the trigeminal nerve to the eyes, not from autoinnoculation in adults.  

You aren't going to transmit oral herpes to your own genital area either. It's just not that easy. I always recommend a proper lube and not saliva anyways for multiple reasons.

grace
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Avatar_n_tn
Thank you for the clarification.   So it is not spreading via autoinnoculation, but the herpes virus is simply in the area reactivating in a new area.   You used the example of "boxer short" area.  I'm assuming in the face, the whole face is considered "Oral Area", since the eyes can get infected.  

So for those who say that I need to wash my hands if I have an oral outbreak before I touch my genitals is really bogus?  Its not possible for it to happen because antibodies are already present.  

Antibodies prevent the autoinnoculation?  Is this correct?  

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Avatar_n_tn
Fact: You can potentially spread the virus by touching a genital herpes sore and then another part of your body, which is called autoinoculation. This is particularly true during a primary initial outbreak (the first outbreak of genital herpes in people who have never been exposed to the herpes virus before). In general, autoinoculation is very uncommon after the primary initial outbreak, because your immune system has been established against herpes simplex.
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Avatar_n_tn
Grace,

This article http://www.****.***  by doctors

says that ocular herpes is caused by autoinnoculation.  They didn't specify whether in children or adult.

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Avatar_n_tn
Grace,
I've seen you post this "boxer short" area information numerous times and a few of the Drs. on here seem to say otherwise. I asked my own doctor and he also disagrees and says that if you have, for example, BOs in the anal area, that you CANNOT have future OBs on the penis. He says it just doen't work that way and that the initial OB is where (or VERY near) the initial OB was. In fact, my Dr. says that if you have anal herpes, you CANNOT spread it if someone gives you oral sex on the penis only, and that it is not true that you shed from penile fluids. he says the only way that anal area herpes can spread to your penis is by touching the sores and then your penis and that the only way someone can get herpes from your anal herpes is by DIRECT contact with those lesions.

So the issue is far from clear. Many Drs seem to disagree with the "Boxer Short Area" theory....

Would be nice to get the story straight. :-(

Sam
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101028_tn?1348750963
I'm not at home to have my links at my finger tips. here is one and I"ll try to find the link to the shedding from the anogenital area with non-genital ob's one to post too.

the literature supports what I say.  I wouldn't be saying it if it didn't.

grace


Am J Med. 1995 Mar;98(3):237-42.

   Frequency and reactivation of nongenital lesions among patients with genital herpes simplex virus.

   Benedetti JK, Zeh J, Selke S, Corey L.
    Department of Biostatistics, University of Washington, Seattle 98144.


    OBJECTIVE: To determine the frequency, recurrence patterns, and host factors associated with nongenital herpes simplex virus lesions. PATIENTS AND METHODS: In this cohort study at a referral clinic, 457 patients with first episodes of genital herpes were prospectively observed to evaluate the anatomic sites of herpetic lesions at the first and subsequent visits. Of these patients, 73 had primary genital herpes simplex virus (HSV) type 1, 326 had primary first episode genital HSV-2, and 58 had HSV-1 infection prior to acquisition of genital HSV-2. The median follow-up was 63 weeks. RESULTS: Nongenital lesions at the time of acquisition of genital herpes were observed in 25%, 9%, and 2% of patients with primary HSV-1, primary HSV-2, and nonprimary HSV-2, respectively. Half of the patients with concurrent genital and nongenital lesions subsequently had recurrences at a nongenital site. Twenty patients (6.5%) whose primary genital HSV-2 infection involved only the genitalia subsequently developed nongenital recurrences, primarily on the buttocks (12) and legs (4). Nongenital recurrences, especially buttock recurrences, tended to be less frequent but of longer duration than genital recurrences.

CONCLUSIONS: Overall, 21% of patients with primary genital herpes will have or will subsequently develop a nongenital recurrence. Among patients with HSV-1, nongenital lesions tended to occur more often on the hand and face, whereas HSV-2 lesions appeared more often on the buttocks. Buttock lesions due to HSV recur less frequently but last longer than genital lesions.
    PMID: 7872339 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE
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101028_tn?1348750963
http://www.greenjournal.org/cgi/content/full/108/4/947

Obstet Gynecol. 2006 Oct;108(4):947-52. Links
Isolation of herpes simplex virus from the genital tract during symptomatic recurrence on the buttocks.Kerkering K, Gardella C, Selke S, Krantz E, Corey L, Wald A.
Department of Medicine, University of Washington, Seattle, Washington 98195, USA.

OBJECTIVE: To estimate the frequency of isolation of herpes simplex virus (HSV) from the genital tract when recurrent herpes lesions were present on the buttocks. METHODS: Data were extracted from a prospectively observed cohort attending a research clinic for genital herpes infections between 1975 and 2001. All patients with a documented herpes lesion on the buttocks, upper thigh or gluteal cleft ("buttock recurrence") and concomitant viral cultures from genital sites including the perianal region were eligible. RESULTS: We reviewed records of 237 subjects, 151 women and 86 men, with a total of 572 buttock recurrences. Of the 1,592 days with genital culture information during a buttock recurrence, participants had concurrent genital lesions on 311 (20%, 95% confidence interval [CI] 14-27%) of these days. Overall, HSV was isolated from the genital region on 12% (95% CI 8-17%) of days during a buttock recurrence. In the absence of genital lesions, HSV was isolated from the genital area on 7% (95% CI 4%-11%) of days during a buttock recurrence and, among women, from the vulvar or cervical sites on 1% of days.

CONCLUSION: Viral shedding of herpes simplex virus from the genital area is a relatively common occurrence during a buttock recurrence of genital herpes, even without concurrent genital lesions, reflecting perhaps reactivation from concomitant regions of the sacral neural ganglia. Patients with buttock herpes recurrences should be instructed about the risk of genital shedding during such recurrences. LEVEL OF EVIDENCE: II-2.

PMID: 17012458 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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494623_tn?1278282952
I think it is safe to say that with ourselves here on the Forum and the Doctors the advice given is based on "typical" and "classic" ways in which Herpes acts for the most part,there will always be people wherby the virus reacts differently and the research done on it is to make us aware of what CAN happen it is not to say it definately will ...... few people with Herpes are identical it's a very variaible condition so it is best to cover all aspects and possibilities of it's behaviour.

Daisy
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101028_tn?1348750963
LOL Sounds like you remember that pm I sent ya awhile back Daisy :)

Most folks with genital herpes for a long time do certainly have their "usual" areas for ob's to occur in.  Most of us also though have had them in more than just within a short area of where the "original" ob was ( I put that in paranthesis because studies also back that 1/2 of folks are really having a recurrence and not first time symptoms when they first  have obvious lesions so you really have no idea where your original ob was in a situation like that ).  I know in myself, I can more quickly tell you where I haven't had ob's in the last 22 years than I can tell you where all I've had them at.  My main purpose in making sure I tell folks about having ob's in multiple places is that many of us are in discordant relationships and I'd hate to see someone think that because their ob's were always on one area that something popping up on another area that you think might be herpes, is a reason to avoid sex to protect your partner because it very well might be.  

grace
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Avatar_n_tn
Hi,
Please pardon if I am missing something here but I have been searching for info and am not finding specifics.  I have a couple of questions and would appreciate your advice.

What I would like to know is if a woman who has had an outbreak near the anus can then later get outbreaks on or in the vagina.  I was just diagnosed and am really devastated.  I am meticulous with cleanliness but right now I feel as if no matter what I do, just because of proximity, the viral shedding or sores can transmit their fluids anywhere in this general area.  It feels as if I am going to just end up being one big sore down there no matter what I do. Can you please speak to this.  Right now I feel like I'll never be able to have sex again because of the diagnosis but if I so worried about spreading it to myself to other locations (such as vagina or clit), then I can't even pleasure myself.  

Also, I am worried about holding my nephew.  Can I even be around him, say if I am visiting his parents and use the restroom, wash my hands/get everything clean but then what about the towels?  What about if he touches my cheek or if I give a hug?  The viral shedding is what really has me upset even though I finally did run across one bit of research that says the virus only lives for about 10 seconds off the body (but longer with towels and such).

Final question: I have not had sex in years.  How is it that I have had such a terrible outbreak now?  Everything I'm reading says that the first outbreak is the worst and happens within weeks of infection but I haven't been with anyone so how can I be having such a bad outbreak right now?  I went through a lot more stress all of last year and nothing happened.  I must say that there have been a couple of occasions in the past where I felt a tingling and had a weird redness on my upper lip but that's it and that's on my face, not genital region.  Now I have genital (diagnosed with culture) so maybe I just have it everywhere?

I also have chronic candida which I am doing my best to treat as well and this has in the past caused some very small cuts which is common to those with the condition.  There has never been anything so bad as what I have recently experience with this outbreak, nothing that seemed anything other than the same chronic candida I've had since I was in my teens and nothing that even looked like what I just experienced with HSV (don't know if it's I or II since I couldn't afford the extra $$ to get specific result, just know that the culture came back positive).

Thanks for your help and any answers.  
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101028_tn?1348750963
let's follow up in your original post you have going. makes it easier - thanks!

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Avatar_n_tn
Re: let's follow up in your original post you have going. makes it easier - thanks!

Sorry, I'm new to this.  So...what should I do?  Do you want me to go back to my first post and post these questions there?  Please let me know.  I was trying to keep questions related to specific posts that I am reading but I'll follow whatever protocol works here.

Thanks so much!
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101028_tn?1348750963
yes - they all should be asked in your original post - thanks!
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Avatar_f_tn
In that study, was 7% shedding genitally  with buttocks outbreakers with non-genital lesions male? And is the 1% shedding from cervix with buttocks outbreakers with non-genital lesions female? I just get buttock lesions, never genital, so am I the 1%? I can't tell whether the 7% is male and female or just male in that paragraph!
In the UK I've been told that shedding is approximate in relation to how many outbreaks you have, whereas the US seems to think even if you have hardly any outbreaks, you are shedding!
The US also seem to be much more likely to take Valtrex all the time, wherea my Genito-Urinary Clinic said suppressive therapy with Acyclovir was a waste of time really, unless you get loads of outbreaks!
I take a tiny bit of aspirin daily, and that stops my outbreaks.
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